From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #1013 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Monday, May 12 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1013 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: Air filter recommendation? Re: Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market 300CD plans rearranged... Interesting article Fram Oil filters Re: Air filter recommendation? Thoughts from under a car . . . Re: Thoughts from under a car . . . Re: Fram Oil filters Re: Thoughts from under a car . . . Re: Thoughts from under a car . . . Re: Thoughts from under a car . . . Re: Air filter recommendation? Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 18:24:01 -0500 From: Jon Filina Subject: Re: Air filter recommendation? Paul wrote: > Can someone help me separate the hype from the useful information in > selecting an air filter for my 240D? What do y'all use in your Benz? > Do I go the Fram or Purolator route, or is there something to K&N's > claims to be the "best" (albeit fragile) filter available? For what > its worth, there does not appear to be an Amsoil filter for this > application. I'm a bit late on this, but wanted to throw my 2 cents in. I have been using Wix for several years. The local parts store where I get my Delo 400 oil carries this brand. My mechanic tells me he used to use Wix because their filters (air, fuel and oil) are just as good as the OEM ones (Mann and Knecht). He went back to Mann when the Wix products became more expensive. When it comes to air filters, as others have mentioned, it doesn't much matter. I have used Fram and Purolator with no problems. The Wix brand is just as good, if not better. But, oil filters are a different thing. I refuse to use Fram. Their spin on for my '81 Rabbit was junk. Purolator was acceptable. My 240D, may she rest in peace...., received Fram filters when I used the local quickee oil change place. I didn't notice any problems with them, but started using Wix filters when I got my Topsider and started doing the oil changes myself. That decision was based on my irritation with the dorks at the lube center constantly trying to remove the spin on fuel filter thinking it was the oil filter.... My 300SD has received Wix filters since I got it, with an occasional Mann if I was able to get it from my mechanic. I have had no problems with their product. The combination of Chevron Delo400 (15w40) and Wix filters has worked for me for 2 MB diesels. In fact, I changed Bruno's oil this last tuesday after, and I'm ashamed to admit this, almost 7000 miles. The Wix filter appeared to be still doing it's job (which I don't think would have been the case with a Fram) and the Delo400 had not started to break down, based on hot oil pressure readings (Shell Rotella broke down around 1500 miles...). When it comes to air filters, take your pick but stay away from K&N. When it come to oil filters, you can do far better than Fram. Jon '84 300SD 158,000 mi. "Bruno" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 21:44:58 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market At 11:16 AM 5/8/2003 -0700, Jim B wrote: http://car-part.com/ excellent site!!! did a quick search for some obscure parts and it found them!!! thanx Jim! john meister - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 23:03:30 -0700 From: john Subject: 300CD plans rearranged... it seems that Dr. Frankenstein wasn't able to find enough local villagers to assist... ;) actually the '84 300CD is outside of my budget right now so the turbo Diesel gets to continue it's existence in it's normal abode... still haven't seen the '79 yet but will end up having to chase around wrecking yards and paint shops to put it together. In a way I'm relieved... one project instead of three... :) Looking forward to getting the 300CD put together and compare it with the 190D. Both cars are my favorite color. Figured out that if I drove my '87 XJ vs. the '85 190D it would cost about $60 a month more in fuel... that adds up almost $720 a year... of course one set of injectors will will wipe out that savings... ;) Need to look into this bioDiesel stuff a bit more... might be worth the trouble to save bucks... quick calculation indicates that it'd save about $40/month over regular Diesel, which is already a savings of about $50/month over gas power... hmmm... just had a thought on the filtering... I've got a brand new parts washer and an amsoil bypass filter, wonder if I could combine those two to filter used vegetable oil... :) later, john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 07:00:50 -0500 From: Jon Filina Subject: Interesting article Fellow listers, The following article by Ed Wallace was in this last Sunday's edition of the Fort Worth Star Telegram. I don't think he's syndicated, so only those in the D/FW area may have seen it. http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/classifieds/automotive/5745368.htm His column appears every Sunday in the Star Telegram. It is automotive related but sometimes just barely. It has become a must read for me. He has over 20 years experience in the industry, most of it at the dealership level. His articles are mostly about the history of the automobile, mainly the individuals responsible and how they evolved into their roles. The above column is a good example. Some of his past writings were about Soichiro Honda, Henry Ford and others. They make for very interesting reading. This weeks column is about negotiating and the public approval ratings of car salesman vs. politicians: http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/classifieds/automotive/5798301.htm Enjoy, Jon '84 300SD 158,000 mi. "Bruno" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 11:41:33 -0500 From: "Black, Waylon" Subject: Fram Oil filters This is a good read on oil filters - great story. Author was even threatened with legal action. http://minimopar.net/oilfilterstudy-mopar.html If you have trouble with the site, it is mirrored all over the web. http://www.frankhunt.com/FRANK/corvette/articles/oilfilterstudy/oilfilterstu dy.html Search google for : oil filter study Knize WB - -----Original Message----- From: Jon Filina [mailto:jfilina-at-surfbest.net] Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2003 6:24 PM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: Air filter recommendation? Paul wrote: > Can someone help me separate the hype from the useful information in > selecting an air filter for my 240D? What do y'all use in your Benz? > Do I go the Fram or Purolator route, or is there something to K&N's > claims to be the "best" (albeit fragile) filter available? For what > its worth, there does not appear to be an Amsoil filter for this > application. I'm a bit late on this, but wanted to throw my 2 cents in. I have been using Wix for several years. The local parts store where I get my Delo 400 oil carries this brand. My mechanic tells me he used to use Wix because their filters (air, fuel and oil) are just as good as the OEM ones (Mann and Knecht). He went back to Mann when the Wix products became more expensive. When it comes to air filters, as others have mentioned, it doesn't much matter. I have used Fram and Purolator with no problems. The Wix brand is just as good, if not better. But, oil filters are a different thing. I refuse to use Fram. Their spin on for my '81 Rabbit was junk. Purolator was acceptable. My 240D, may she rest in peace...., received Fram filters when I used the local quickee oil change place. I didn't notice any problems with them, but started using Wix filters when I got my Topsider and started doing the oil changes myself. That decision was based on my irritation with the dorks at the lube center constantly trying to remove the spin on fuel filter thinking it was the oil filter.... My 300SD has received Wix filters since I got it, with an occasional Mann if I was able to get it from my mechanic. I have had no problems with their product. The combination of Chevron Delo400 (15w40) and Wix filters has worked for me for 2 MB diesels. In fact, I changed Bruno's oil this last tuesday after, and I'm ashamed to admit this, almost 7000 miles. The Wix filter appeared to be still doing it's job (which I don't think would have been the case with a Fram) and the Delo400 had not started to break down, based on hot oil pressure readings (Shell Rotella broke down around 1500 miles...). When it comes to air filters, take your pick but stay away from K&N. When it come to oil filters, you can do far better than Fram. Jon '84 300SD 158,000 mi. "Bruno" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 10:44:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: Air filter recommendation? Paul Schwartz wrote: > > I use Purolator air filters in my 240D. Mostly because that's what my local > Napa parts store carries. I do not use Purolator oil and fuel filters. > Those I buy from Rusty (www.mbz.org). I think the brand I buy is Mann. I > think air filters are more generic than fuel and oil filters; I learned that > on my Audi. Apparently, the Fram oil filters, and most American made oil > filters, don't have anti-back flow valves *** My understanding is that ALL filters have the anti backflow valves. It's just that the Fram ones are crap and don't work. There's an excellent website somewhere where a guy took apart every major brand of oil filter and outlined what's in it. Fram came out badly. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) p.s. I use the OEM air filter in my 300D. Even though it costs $40 from the dealer, and $30 from Randy. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 10:56:50 -0700 From: "Paul Schwartz" Subject: Thoughts from under a car . . . Ok, so I'm crawling around under my 240D, looking for one of those elusive rattles, and I had a thought. I'm looking at the oil pan and the lower crankcase cover. I'm thinking to my self, "Gee, if I wanted to do a valve and ring job on this thing, I wonder if I could I get that lower crankcase cover out with out pulling the engine?" My car doesn't need rings, but in the event it does, can that job be done with the engine still in the car? Oh, I found the rattle. It seems a couple of those rubber grommets on the shifting levers have gone away. The new ones are 85 cents each from Rusty. This is the first part I have ever purchased for my car that cost less than a buck. Shock and Awe. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 11:07:37 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: Thoughts from under a car . . . ok, so what's causing my rear end to squeak? :) (the 190D, not mine... ;) At 10:56 AM 5/12/2003 -0700, Paul Schwartz wrote: >Ok, so I'm crawling around under my 240D, looking for one of those elusive >rattles, and I had a thought. > >I'm looking at the oil pan and the lower crankcase cover. I'm thinking to >my self, "Gee, if I wanted to do a valve and ring job on this thing, I >wonder if I could I get that lower crankcase cover out with out pulling the >engine?" My car doesn't need rings, but in the event it does, can that job >be done with the engine still in the car? > >Oh, I found the rattle. It seems a couple of those rubber grommets on the >shifting levers have gone away. The new ones are 85 cents each from Rusty. >This is the first part I have ever purchased for my car that cost less than >a buck. Shock and Awe. > >Paul - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 11:10:12 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: Fram Oil filters I have a cross reference guide, might be able to cross some of the filters the author mentions to wix and amsoil and hastings... john At 11:41 AM 5/12/2003 -0500, Black, Waylon wrote: >This is a good read on oil filters - great story. Author was even threatened >with legal action. > >http://minimopar.net/oilfilterstudy-mopar.html > >If you have trouble with the site, it is mirrored all over the web. > >http://www.frankhunt.com/FRANK/corvette/articles/oilfilterstudy/oilfilterstu >dy.html > >Search google for : oil filter study Knize > > >WB > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jon Filina [mailto:jfilina-at-surfbest.net] >Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2003 6:24 PM >To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >Subject: Re: Air filter recommendation? > >Paul wrote: > > > Can someone help me separate the hype from the useful information in > > selecting an air filter for my 240D? What do y'all use in your Benz? > > Do I go the Fram or Purolator route, or is there something to K&N's > > claims to be the "best" (albeit fragile) filter available? For what > > its worth, there does not appear to be an Amsoil filter for this > > application. > >I'm a bit late on this, but wanted to throw my 2 cents in. > >I have been using Wix for several years. The local parts store where I >get my Delo 400 oil carries this brand. My mechanic tells me he used to >use Wix because their filters (air, fuel and oil) are just as good as >the OEM ones (Mann and Knecht). He went back to Mann when the Wix >products became more expensive. > >When it comes to air filters, as others have mentioned, it doesn't much >matter. I have used Fram and Purolator with no problems. The Wix brand >is just as good, if not better. > >But, oil filters are a different thing. I refuse to use Fram. Their >spin on for my '81 Rabbit was junk. Purolator was acceptable. My 240D, >may she rest in peace...., received Fram filters when I used the local >quickee oil change place. I didn't notice any problems with them, but >started using Wix filters when I got my Topsider and started doing the >oil changes myself. That decision was based on my irritation with the >dorks at the lube center constantly trying to remove the spin on fuel >filter thinking it was the oil filter.... > >My 300SD has received Wix filters since I got it, with an occasional >Mann if I was able to get it from my mechanic. I have had no problems >with their product. The combination of Chevron Delo400 (15w40) and Wix >filters has worked for me for 2 MB diesels. In fact, I changed Bruno's >oil this last tuesday after, and I'm ashamed to admit this, almost 7000 >miles. The Wix filter appeared to be still doing it's job (which I >don't think would have been the case with a Fram) and the Delo400 had >not started to break down, based on hot oil pressure readings (Shell >Rotella broke down around 1500 miles...). > >When it comes to air filters, take your pick but stay away from K&N. > When it come to oil filters, you can do far better than Fram. > >Jon >'84 300SD 158,000 mi. "Bruno" - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 11:12:49 -0700 From: "Paul Schwartz" Subject: Re: Thoughts from under a car . . . - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: "Paul Schwartz" ; Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 11:07 AM Subject: Re: Thoughts from under a car . . . > ok, so what's causing my rear end to squeak? :) (the 190D, not mine... ;) > Maybe you need more fiber in you diet? #%^) Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 11:14:57 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: Thoughts from under a car . . . actually, that would make MY rear end... oh, never mind... suspect it's bushings or maybe the struts, when I replaced the front struts it quieted the front down. :) john At 11:12 AM 5/12/2003 -0700, Paul Schwartz wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "john" >To: "Paul Schwartz" ; >Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 11:07 AM >Subject: Re: Thoughts from under a car . . . > > > > ok, so what's causing my rear end to squeak? :) (the 190D, not mine... >;) > > > > >Maybe you need more fiber in you diet? #%^) > >Paul - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 11:54:06 -0700 From: "DerickAA" Subject: Re: Thoughts from under a car . . . Yes they can be replaced without removing the engine I have a coworker who has done it. I think he told me he had to lift the engine but only a little. This was on a 1974 240d. 85 cents each! Wow, wish I could get out on a parts bill that inexpensively! :) Derick - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Schwartz" To: Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 10:56 AM Subject: Thoughts from under a car . . . > Ok, so I'm crawling around under my 240D, looking for one of those elusive > rattles, and I had a thought. > > I'm looking at the oil pan and the lower crankcase cover. I'm thinking to > my self, "Gee, if I wanted to do a valve and ring job on this thing, I > wonder if I could I get that lower crankcase cover out with out pulling the > engine?" My car doesn't need rings, but in the event it does, can that job > be done with the engine still in the car? > > Oh, I found the rattle. It seems a couple of those rubber grommets on the > shifting levers have gone away. The new ones are 85 cents each from Rusty. > This is the first part I have ever purchased for my car that cost less than > a buck. Shock and Awe. > > Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 14:25:44 US/Central From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: Air filter recommendation? > *** My understanding is that ALL filters have the anti backflow valves. > It's just that the Fram ones are crap and don't work. There's an excellent > website somewhere where a guy took apart every major brand of oil filter and > outlined what's in it. Fram came out badly. > > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) The Frams aren't the only lousy ones. Recently had my local mechanic (German Auto Center, a reasonably MB-competent independent) do an oil change on my 89 M103 300CE when it was in for something else. The filter they used made my car take almost five seconds after starting to show any oil pressure at the dash. I finally put in a filter from Rusty, probably a Mann brand, when I first used my new Topsider, and the car is back to showing oil pressure within one second of startup. I had been using a local oil change shop for the last few years, and providing my own filters (from Rusty), so I don't know what other brands exhibit this poor behavior. If I ever have this mechanic change the oil filter when performing other work, I will insist that they use a more appropriate filter. That bothered me almost as much as the top MB independent in Austin (Ben Schotz) using non-diesel-rated Pennzoil or Quaker State when he did an oil change in my 85 300D many years ago. Alec ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1013 **********************************