From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #1014 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Monday, May 12 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1014 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: Air filter recommendation? Re: Thoughts from under a car . . . Re: Thoughts from under a car . . . Re: Thoughts from under a car . . . Re: Thoughts from under a car . . . Re: Air filter recommendation? Re: Thoughts from under a car . . . Re: Air filter recommendation? Re: Air filter recommendation? Re: Air filter recommendation? Re: Air filter recommendation? Re: Air filter recommendation? Re: Air filter recommendation? Re: Air filter recommendation? Re: Air filter recommendation? Re: Air filter recommendation? Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 12:32:19 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: Air filter recommendation? At 02:25 PM 5/12/2003 +0000, acordova-at-texas.net wrote: >That bothered me almost as much as the top MB independent in Austin (Ben >Schotz) using non-diesel-rated Pennzoil or Quaker State when he did an oil >change in my 85 300D many years ago. >Alec yikes... pennzoil and q state and valvoline make a nasty mess inside a gas engine, can't imagine the damage they'd cause in a Diesel! valvoline and pennzoil foams... q state used to drive my lifters crazy on my 289... the only dino oil I'd consider is kendall (not sure if it's for diesel), or even though it's not the best, shell/havoline and other diesel rated oils... but I almost always use amsoil syn oils... running the 5w30 in ludwig. in my turbo diesels I use the amsoil diesel oil either the hd 30w or the 15w40 marine grade. john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 15:33:50 -0400 From: Michael Frank Subject: Re: Thoughts from under a car . . . LOL This has me thinking of that chapter in Grapes of Wrath....the old Hudson breaks down by the road side. Tom figures they holed a piston. Then and there, he drops the oil pan and worries the offending piston out from the bottom. He treks to the nearest junk yard, buys a new piston. No ring compressor, so they just do it up with copper wire, which wears out as they chug along and releases the rings......I always wondered if that would ever work in real life. You might want to check out the next chapter too, where they bury Grandma Joad by the roadside... Mike Frank At 01:56 PM 5/12/03, Paul Schwartz wrote: >Ok, so I'm crawling around under my 240D, looking for one of those elusive >rattles, and I had a thought. > >I'm looking at the oil pan and the lower crankcase cover. I'm thinking to >my self, "Gee, if I wanted to do a valve and ring job on this thing, I >wonder if I could I get that lower crankcase cover out with out pulling the >engine?" My car doesn't need rings, but in the event it does, can that job >be done with the engine still in the car? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 12:43:06 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: Thoughts from under a car . . . funny you should mention the grapes of wrath... the way the economy is going and all... ;) on a jeep it's not too hard to drop the pan and pull stuff out from below... xj and sj both... done it to replace rear main seal and oil pumps... :) helps to have a lift kit too... ;) john At 03:33 PM 5/12/2003 -0400, Michael Frank wrote: >LOL This has me thinking of that chapter in Grapes of Wrath....the old >Hudson breaks down by the road side. Tom figures they holed a piston. Then >and there, he drops the oil pan and worries the offending piston out from >the bottom. He treks to the nearest junk yard, buys a new piston. No ring >compressor, so they just do it up with copper wire, which wears out as >they chug along and releases the rings......I always wondered if that >would ever work in real life. You might want to check out the next chapter >too, where they bury Grandma Joad by the roadside... > >Mike Frank > >At 01:56 PM 5/12/03, Paul Schwartz wrote: >>Ok, so I'm crawling around under my 240D, looking for one of those elusive >>rattles, and I had a thought. >> >>I'm looking at the oil pan and the lower crankcase cover. I'm thinking to >>my self, "Gee, if I wanted to do a valve and ring job on this thing, I >>wonder if I could I get that lower crankcase cover out with out pulling the >>engine?" My car doesn't need rings, but in the event it does, can that job >>be done with the engine still in the car? - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 15:37:33 -0400 From: Michael Frank Subject: Re: Thoughts from under a car . . . You're going to have to go through the numbers on this. There are a lot of candidates: - - Shock absorber bushings - - Springs and seats - - Sway bar uprights and D mounts. - - Link bushings - - Subframe bushings My money would be on the D mounts. Mike Frank At 02:07 PM 5/12/03, john wrote: >ok, so what's causing my rear end to squeak? :) (the 190D, not mine... ;) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 13:06:20 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: Thoughts from under a car . . . And I'm going to hazard a guess that a zerk fitting is not included... :( john At 03:37 PM 5/12/2003 -0400, Michael Frank wrote: >You're going to have to go through the numbers on this. There are a lot of >candidates: > >- Shock absorber bushings >- Springs and seats >- Sway bar uprights and D mounts. >- Link bushings >- Subframe bushings > >My money would be on the D mounts. > >Mike Frank > >At 02:07 PM 5/12/03, john wrote: >>ok, so what's causing my rear end to squeak? :) (the 190D, not mine... ;) - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 13:16:22 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: Air filter recommendation? On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 12:32:19PM -0700, john wrote: > At 02:25 PM 5/12/2003 +0000, acordova-at-texas.net wrote: > >That bothered me almost as much as the top MB independent in Austin (Ben > >Schotz) using non-diesel-rated Pennzoil or Quaker State when he did an oil > >change in my 85 300D many years ago. > > yikes... pennzoil and q state and valvoline make a nasty mess inside > a gas engine, can't imagine the damage they'd cause in a Diesel! I keep hearing about a mess valvoline makes in an engine, but have yet to see it. OTOH, I have seen first hand many times what pennzoil does to an engine. I run valvoline in the crown vic, but it uses about 1.5-2 qts of 10w40 per oil change (!-at-#%$&% OHC ford valve guides, though the leaky rear main probably isn't helping any), but kendall or synthetic in everything else. I have run castrol on occasion because of its high detergent content, but it breaks down much quicker than anything else, so I don't like to run castrol very often. > valvoline and pennzoil foams... q state used to drive my lifters crazy on > my 289... the only dino oil I'd consider is kendall (not sure if it's for > diesel), or even though it's not the best, shell/havoline and other diesel > rated oils... but I almost always use amsoil syn oils... running the > 5w30 in ludwig. in my turbo diesels I use the amsoil diesel oil either > the hd 30w or the 15w40 marine grade. The newer diesels that use oil pressure to drive the injector pump (like the powerstroke ford) absolutely require a CH-4 rated oil with anti-foaming agents. Normal oil will foam in a powerchoke, and you can imagine the results. Running an oil without the "C" (compression ignition rated) in a diesel, NA, turbo, or blown, is not a good idea, synthetic or not. Kendall does make two diesel oils - the long's in oakland carries them. There is a 15w40 with a CH-4 rating, and a straight 30w HD. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 13:30:27 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: Thoughts from under a car . . . any chance of adding zerk fittings? (haven't looked yet... ) john At 04:19 PM 5/12/2003 -0400, Michael Frank wrote: >What are you kidding? There ain't no zerks on a Merc chassis. I recently >had a ball joint just let go, completely worn out for lack of grease. Know >what it's like when that happens? the control arm drops to the road and >you are done. A shot of grease annually would have kept it good for ten >more years....after that, I went through the suspensions on both cars, and >replaced every balljoint or tie rod end that looked like it was dry or had >a bad boot. > >Mike Frank > >At 04:06 PM 5/12/03, you wrote: >>And I'm going to hazard a guess that a zerk fitting is not included... :( - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 13:48:17 -0700 From: "Paul Schwartz" Subject: Re: Air filter recommendation? > The newer diesels that use oil pressure to drive the injector pump (like the > powerstroke ford) absolutely require a CH-4 rated oil with anti-foaming agents. > Normal oil will foam in a powerchoke, and you can imagine the results. Running > an oil without the "C" (compression ignition rated) in a diesel, NA, turbo, or > blown, is not a good idea, synthetic or not. > > Kendall does make two diesel oils - the long's in oakland carries them. There > is a 15w40 with a CH-4 rating, and a straight 30w HD. The only C rated oil I can find in my neck of the woods is Rotella. I change about every 2000 miles and it seem to run fine, no loss of pressure issues. I ran one change with a Standard product--I don't remember the name--and I'd get a large plume of white smoke when I'd start up in the morning. I don't get that plume with Rotella. And, the only place I can find Rotella is K-Mart. I like the gallon jugs because it gives me something to put the old oil in so it can be recycled; they'll pick it up with my trash. Oakland is a bit of a hike for me. I grew up there; it's a nice place to be from! But, it's the only place in the bayarea where you can find decent BBQ. The next closest place is Red's in Dallas. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 15:52:34 US/Central From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: Air filter recommendation? > Oakland is a bit of a hike for me. I grew up there; it's a nice place to be > from! But, it's the only place in the bayarea where you can find decent > BBQ. The next closest place is Red's in Dallas. > > Paul > Ahhh. Someone with their priorities straight. Good BBQ is one of the essentials of good living, and part of why I love living in Texas. Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas, home of Louis Mueller's BBQ, among a zillion others 89 300CE, 157K ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 14:01:26 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: Air filter recommendation? At 03:52 PM 5/12/2003 +0000, acordova-at-texas.net wrote: > > Paul > > >Ahhh. Someone with their priorities straight. Good BBQ is one of the >essentials >of good living, and part of why I love living in Texas. Dixie's BBQ in Bellevue, WA is THE place to go... ;) Ya gotta meet the man... ;) Seen people crying, turning colors and breaking into a sweat from the "man's" hot sauce... :) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 14:02:06 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: Air filter recommendation? valvoline and pennzoil are indistinguishable in the mess dept... ;) john At 01:16 PM 5/12/2003 -0700, Kevin Pekarek wrote: >I keep hearing about a mess valvoline makes in an engine, but have yet to >see it. OTOH, I have seen first hand many times what pennzoil does to an >engine. I run valvoline in the crown vic, but it uses about 1.5-2 qts of - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 14:06:12 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: Air filter recommendation? On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 01:48:17PM -0700, Paul Schwartz wrote: > The only C rated oil I can find in my neck of the woods is Rotella. I > change about every 2000 miles and it seem to run fine, no loss of pressure > issues. I ran one change with a Standard product--I don't remember the > name--and I'd get a large plume of white smoke when I'd start up in the > morning. I don't get that plume with Rotella. And, the only place I can > find Rotella is K-Mart. I like the gallon jugs because it gives me > something to put the old oil in so it can be recycled; they'll pick it up > with my trash. heheeh... K-mart and Walmart are two places to find decent oil cheap. Catch being they have decent oil and junk, not the good stuff :-/ Gallon jugs rule, with one exception - everything of mine (so far) holds five quarts. Being the heavyhanded person I am , I prefer to stick to the one quart bottles :) > Oakland is a bit of a hike for me. I grew up there; it's a nice place to be > from! But, it's the only place in the bayarea where you can find decent > BBQ. The next closest place is Red's in Dallas. There's a couple of decent places I've been to in california, one of the better is in SLO county, called Mo's. I also have a soft spot for steakhouses, and good ones of those are very hard to come by in the bay area. Having a house in a rural county with lots of cows around comes in handy :) K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 14:10:58 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: Air filter recommendation? On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 03:52:34PM +0000, acordova-at-texas.net wrote: > Ahhh. Someone with their priorities straight. Good BBQ is one of the > essentials of good living, and part of why I love living in Texas. Good BBQ and good beer. Actually, things are better now that it's not as much of a pain to find Shiner in the bay area. Gordon Biersch and Anchor Steam are good, but there's something about Texas beer. Yeah, we have napa valley out here, but who ever heard of having a hot dog and a glass of cabernet while watching the ball game? :) MLC: will a diesel run off the macrobrew crap they sell in supermarkets? people say you can burn it as long as you can filter it... or is it too watery? :) K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 16:19:10 US/Central From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: Air filter recommendation? > heheeh... K-mart and Walmart are two places to find decent oil cheap. Catch > being they have decent oil and junk, not the good stuff :-/ > > -- > Kevin Pekarek > Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and > Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) > Isn't that the truth. The quicky oil change places have all started refusing to touch a Benz, even the local one I've been patronizing for several years (while supplying my own OEM filter). So I gave in to the urge and bought a Topsider. Went to WalMart armed with a printout from some web site (http://www.whnet.com/4x4/oil.html) of the "official" Mercedes-approved 229.1 and 229.3 motor oils, planning to buy some tasty Synthetic. The only Synthetic I could find at WalMart that was on the MB-approved list was Castrol Syntec 10W- 40, and it was just 229.1 approved, not 229.3 extended-drain-interval approved. Half a dozen other synthetics in WalMart, more if you consider the different viscosities, which the 229.x lists do, and only one match. My car seems pretty happy, though, with a sump full of Castrol Syntec 10W-40 229.1-approved synthetic, from single quart bottles. And that Topsider is a wonderful thing. Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 89 300CE, 157K ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 14:25:18 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: Air filter recommendation? On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 02:02:06PM -0700, john wrote: > valvoline and pennzoil are indistinguishable in the mess dept... ;) Interesting... not from what I've seen from what I've pulled apart, and I've pulled apart a lot :) By far the best was an engine from a 90 mustang - an HO 302. It got mobil 1 synthetic (which is decent for a synthetic, and don't try doing extended intervals with it) since new. 120k miles and it blew a lifter (damn roller cam garbage). Upon inspection, the factory cross-hatching in the bores was still intact. I didn't consider it worthwhile to measure bore taper :) The worst was a 71 351 cleveland that got pennzoil. Oil pressure problems big time - haul arse down a farm road, and after about a mile, the oil light comes on. Turn off car, wait ten minutes, fire it up, and it had pressure again. Hooked up a mechanical gauge, and it pretty much displayed the same. Upon partial teardown, the oil return galleys in the heads were COMPLETELY coked up with sludge. Oil went into the head, but didn't come back. Car belonged to a friend of mine, and since the cougar was a rusty eyesore, he offed it. The engines with valvoline showed wear, but weren't sludgy. Sure, it wasn't as clean as that 90 mustang, but it sure wasn't the poor cougar either. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 14:26:41 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: Air filter recommendation? you can always call amsoil directly, using customer #283461 (grin) and have them deliver it to your doorstep... :) john At 04:19 PM 5/12/2003 +0000, acordova-at-texas.net wrote: > >Isn't that the truth. The quicky oil change places have all started >refusing to >touch a Benz, even the local one I've been patronizing for several years >(while >supplying my own OEM filter). So I gave in to the urge and bought a Topsider. >Went to WalMart armed with a printout from some web site >(http://www.whnet.com/4x4/oil.html) of the "official" Mercedes-approved 229.1 >and 229.3 motor oils, planning to buy some tasty Synthetic. The only >Synthetic >I could find at WalMart that was on the MB-approved list was Castrol >Syntec 10W- >40, and it was just 229.1 approved, not 229.3 extended-drain-interval >approved. >Half a dozen other synthetics in WalMart, more if you consider the different >viscosities, which the 229.x lists do, and only one match. > >My car seems pretty happy, though, with a sump full of Castrol Syntec 10W-40 >229.1-approved synthetic, from single quart bottles. And that Topsider is a >wonderful thing. > >Alec Cordova >Taylor, Texas >89 300CE, 157K - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1014 **********************************