From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #1024 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Sunday, May 18 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1024 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: 190Ds meet in Snohomish Re: comparisons 190D vs 300CD, et al Re: Kevin is headed south, thanks Re: Kevin is headed south, thanks "buttercup" is home safe... Re: Kevin, "cool" features and 190d vs 300cd Re: comparisons 190D vs 300CD, et al Any 190D 5 Speeds Out There? Re: Any 190D 5 Speeds Out There? Re: Any 190D 5 Speeds Out There? Re: 190D economy Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 11:05:51 -0700 From: john Subject: 190Ds meet in Snohomish Kevin & John with 190D's in Snohomish, rare sunny day... not sure why Kevin was all bundled up, shoot it was at least 55 degrees outside, I was getting ready to change to a short sleeve shirt... ;) http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/190D/john-n-kevin-w-190ds-may-2003.jpg :) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 21:08:29 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: comparisons 190D vs 300CD, et al On Fri, May 16, 2003 at 01:58:55AM -0700, john wrote: > I'm looking at the differences btwn the 190D 2.2L and the '79 300CD, but > also at the HP/Torque differences btwn the 300CD and the 300CD w/TD... > trying > to figure out if the '79 tranny will hold up to a TD... 37 hp and > 57 ft lbs more... That really doesn't sound like something that will tear > up a tranny... (also my specs don't look right for the 300D/CD turbo... > they should be more in line with the 300SD...) John, keep the 190D. it is a good car and will treat you well. That 300CD, while you prefer that body style, will not be as nice of a vehicle as your 190D is now without you spending TONS of money. Regardless of if you go frankenstein on it and put an abby normal motor in it :) I'd fix the 300CD and sell it up there, the price difference between diesel and gas (plus its fuel mileage) will make it a fairly easy sell. There are lots of other 300CDs out there, just a matter of keeping an eye out for the right one. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 21:20:19 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: Kevin is headed south, thanks On Fri, May 16, 2003 at 11:28:32AM -0700, DerickAA wrote: > Well I met Kevin at the airport last night. Nice dude, and the cowboy hat > suits him. That makes 2 decent fellows off the list, including John, I have > met. I hope to meet more of you one day. would you believe I was born in california and never lived anywhere else? :) It was a pleasure meeting Derick. He is a very cool person, as well as a very honest person. > The sale went off like a well planned military operation. From the time of > pickup at the gate to departure was about a 1/2 an hour. Wish I could have > spent more time with him but the only mode of transport I had to make it > home was the Kitsap airporter. I was the last one on and it left the airport > less than a minute after that. it did. Derick met me at the airport (duh, he works there), the car was EXACTLY as he presented it. We completed the transaction, and I dropped him off. Too bad we didn't get to spend anymore time together, maybe next time. Hopefully things mellow out a bit for Derick... I think he can count his days off this month (including what we call weekends) on one hand, and have fingers left untouched. :-/ > Timing was superb, if I were a car yesterday I would have been throwing out > 450hp and getting 50 mpg..... ;) However; Kevin saw me misfire a couple of > times (performance cam at idle, you know how that is) :) but I digress..... hehehehehe > I hope his trip back to CA is a safe one. I am sad to lose the car but I > know he will give it the attention it needs. Trip was completely safe (as it would be in a benz). The rain was partially annoying, the hail was REALLY annoying, especially the soft hail that looked eerily like snow. No offense to you auto tranny guys, but the five speed really DOES make the car. I snuck off 5 to take a picture of shasta lake as full as it was, and ended up chasing a vtec civic si up the windy road back to the freeway. He couldn't lose me. And I don't have a turbo :) :) :) I have the parts to fix the problems with the car, now hopefully the time will pop up :) > And yes, I publicly acknowledge that John has a "market" for his 190d if he > chooses to part with it. ( I am hoping he does not ) ;) Well, having seen the car first hand and become acquainted with its underhood components, it is a good car, and doesn't need too much at all (provided you get to it before john stuffs a pair of dana 44s underneath it and stacks a 6-71 blower out the hood, of course ) > Seems like John goes through cars like I go through Ham radios. What a Mad > hacker.... :) He must have a very understanding spouse. hehehe Well, I don't really go through cars OR ham radios... they just seem to keep accumulating. Yes, his wife seems pretty understanding about his addiction, only exception I can think of is Rambo. Dude, that truck rocks :) > I am guessing though, we here are all closet hackers to some degree... and > are desperately hoping that John can eventually stick a Mercedes turbo > diesel into something other than a Mercedes. ;) Yeah, I think so. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 21:28:58 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: Kevin is headed south, thanks On Fri, May 16, 2003 at 03:57:36PM -0700, john wrote: > btw, kevin called a bit ago, his window went down but didn't > come back up... last I heard he was on 169 westbound to the > freeway and was looking at some big mean nasty clouds, > (he misunderstood 167.. ;) anyway, I gave him curtis's > number in centralia, this way he'll get to visit Rambo and Superdawg > too if he can't get his window up... not sure if curtis does > milton bradley stuff, but he'll figure it out for sure. :) actually, had the problem solved once I pulled over. Twas the switch, so I borrowed the left rear switch for the driver's window, since the radiator didn't need to roll the window up or down. I didn't have anything in the way of tools on me (airport security probably wouldn't have appreciated me bringing screwdrivers and such in my luggage, especially since I didn't check baggage to save time), and I figured Dr. Frankenstein might have some "tap the hazard switch three times then spill the blood of a ran-over squirrel over the e-brake lever" cure for it. Well, no, but he gave me the phone number of tools. Fortunately I didn't need them, but I got to meet curtis and see john's jeep. BTW, rambo ROCKS. That truck is overflowing with coolness :) I drink too much caffeine (slowly cutting back from roughly a six pack of dr pepper while at work, plus one in the car each way) , so my short term memory is GONE. I remembered the 1 and the 6, and when I saw 169, I thought I remembered john saying 167, but... well. Needless to say, I got the sudden feeling I was going east and not south, pulled over and checked a map at a gas station. Hung a u-turn and prevented an unscheduled trip to idaho :) > Kevin is definitely from CA. He was wearing his hat and a coat > and I had the a/c on in shirtsleeves... we had some sunbreaks... :) You think I'm bad, you should see my cousin from san diego. She wears jeans and a coat when it's *75*. It didn't clear 50 while I was in washington, AND you were running the AC, so I don't feel bad about wearing a coat. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 22:48:48 -0700 From: john Subject: "buttercup" is home safe... Just got home... 10:47pm... over 100 miles of excitement. :) towing a car on it's front wheels creates some interesting harmonics on rough roads over about 40mph. :) but, we made it and I didn't have to disconnect the driveshaft and didn't do the transmission any harm. :) heading back up to unload it and roll it down the hill... :) turns out it's not a '79, but an 1980. will have to update the directory... john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 00:15:44 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: Kevin, "cool" features and 190d vs 300cd At 09:28 PM 5/17/2003 -0700, Kevin Pekarek wrote: > > Kevin is definitely from CA. He was wearing his hat and a coat > > and I had the a/c on in shirtsleeves... we had some sunbreaks... :) >You think I'm bad, you should see my cousin from san diego. She wears >jeans and a coat when it's *75*. >It didn't clear 50 while I was in washington, AND you were running the AC, so >I don't feel bad about wearing a coat. Are you sure it wasn't warmer then 50? Hard for me to tell, I leave the a/c on all year long... :) :) One nice thing about the WJ is that my wife will have the heater and the seat heater on and I'll have the a/c on on my side... :) the 190D does have a nice feature... the center vents blow cold air :) That will be a hard thing for the 300CD to match... :) Got the hood off the 300cd already, I think I'm going to go and talk to Aurora about getting those yellow parts at a discount since they're not the nicest and they match the paint. Buttercup's paint is only slightly better then that one... so I might be able to buff everything out and make it equal... the 300cd needs a lot of tlc... the glovebox lock doesn't work and I gashed up my shin trying to get in to roll it off the dolly... :) so, does this mean I earned a purple heart? It does look like the hood damaged the vent cowl a bit, and the pass side hinges... will pull the fender off and check alignment and all, might try to pull the front support straight tomorrow... Turns out the '80 300CD didn't hit the tree... a tree got in the way of a hyuandi and the benz totalled it... either way, it's clearly the tree's fault jumping out in the road like that... it should have known the storm was coming... :) I should have it together in a few days, but it'll never be 100% I fear... at least not right away... some of the damage can be fixed later by a pro, first step is to get it functional and together and then inventory what needs to be done. at this point kevin it does look like the 190D is a nicer car, but I still like the 300cd's style and looks... and color... :) we'll see... we'll see... :) later, john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 00:27:04 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: comparisons 190D vs 300CD, et al At 09:08 PM 5/17/2003 -0700, Kevin Pekarek wrote: >On Fri, May 16, 2003 at 01:58:55AM -0700, john wrote: > > I'm looking at the differences btwn the 190D 2.2L and the '79 300CD, but > > also at the HP/Torque differences btwn the 300CD and the 300CD w/TD... > > trying > to figure out if the '79 tranny will hold up to a TD... 37 hp and > > 57 ft lbs more... That really doesn't sound like something that will tear > > up a tranny... (also my specs don't look right for the 300D/CD turbo... > > they should be more in line with the 300SD...) rusty made it clear that it won't work... most I've heard out of him in a while... very clear: "NO". :) Also found out it's an '80 and not a '79 when we looked at the title... not sure why I thought it was a '79... :) I'm going to keep my eyes open for a turbo engine and trans together and possibly swap the entire setup. Have to examine everything first to see if I can afford to fix everything on this one... Need to clean it up first, tomorrow, simple green and soap... :) once it's cleaned up I'll have a better feel for things. :) >John, keep the 190D. it is a good car and will treat you well. That 300CD, >while you prefer that body style, will not be as nice of a vehicle as your >190D >is now without you spending TONS of money. Regardless of if you go >frankenstein on it and put an abby normal motor in it :) the 300CD has class... even rolling it down my drive in the dark it felt good... :) the 190D has that K car look to it... nice little car, economical and all that... but... I have trouble fitting my hands in places to work on it... I've done injector and glow plug swaps in the parking lot on a 123 and 126, wouldn't think of trying that on the 201 unless I had a lot of time... nothing is easy to get to on it... the 123 chassis is simpler to work on. :) oh, yeah, and this 300cd has a 40 gallon fuel tank too! :) That means I could drive it about 1,200 miles on a trip... unfortunately my bladder won't manage that much coffee... ;) >I'd fix the 300CD and sell it up there, the price difference between diesel >and gas (plus its fuel mileage) will make it a fairly easy sell. well, if I get the 300CD put together and driveable and sell the 190D I'd have almost enough for two months mortgage payments... not sure I could get that much for the 300CD. :) My wife doesn't like either one, so it'll come down to which one will get the most cash and keep a roof over our heads until I land another full time job. :) >There are lots of other 300CDs out there, just a matter of keeping an eye >out for the right one. yeah, but this is the only light yellow one with a 40 gallon tank I've found that I can afford. ;) There is an '85 that's been for sale for over a year now... it needs tlc, but it is a turbo. ;) I haven't seen that many 300CDs out there... Either way, I could have this 300CD driveable by Wednesday... unfortunately the oil cooler stuff won't be here for another week... :( The other bummer is that the windshield is damaged. :( Anyone know how hard it is to swap a windshield in a 123 chassis? stay tuned for more diesel benz adventures. :) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 10:05:04 -0400 From: "J.B. Hebert" Subject: Any 190D 5 Speeds Out There? So, due to events out of my control, I am forced to start commuting 150 miles a day. I was looking at various options like the VW TDI (too expensive) or an earlier Rabbit (too small/slow) and find myself really liking the 190D with the 2.5 liter turbo diesel. I know the 2.2 would give me a little better economy, but I want a little better performance that I feel it can offer. So here's the deal: I really want a 2.5 with the 5 speed. However, I cannot find a single one for sale anywhere. Are they really that rare, or are people just not selling them? While I'm at it, are there any "gotchas" with the 190 that I should be aware of? My main experience is with the W123 platform. If anyone has any leads on a nice 2.5 with a 5 speed, or ideas on where to look, I'd really appreciate it. If I can't find one, I'll probably settle for an automatic, but I'd still love a 5 speed. Thanks in advance. J.B. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 10:23:25 -0400 From: Michael Frank Subject: Re: Any 190D 5 Speeds Out There? I has to settle for an automatic. As you say, not one manual out there.... The one gotcha on the 190 seems to be climate control. As you know from your 123, Merc climate control is complex. Well, 190 climate control is even more complicated than 123, and the parts are twice as expensive. For some reason, any chassis problems, from low tire pressure to worn bushings, will instantly manifest as severe oversteer. Just accelerate hard out of a turn. If the car feels tail happy, you'll know there's a problem. Just be careful not to spin. Mike Frank At 10:05 AM 5/18/03, J.B. Hebert wrote: >Are they really that rare, or are people just not selling them? While I'm >at it, are there any "gotchas" with the 190 that I should be aware of? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 08:38:22 -0500 From: "Vernon Tuck" Subject: Re: Any 190D 5 Speeds Out There? Mr. Hebert, As to the earlier Rabbits being "too small/slow"... Although I can't argue about your subjective evaluation of "too small" I just want to point out that, compared to a 240D, they are blazing fast... and will cruise easily at 75mph and go even faster. I have a fleet of diesel wabbits and a fleet of 240Ds.. It may come as a surprise that I far prefer to dwive the wabbits. But I'd far prefer to wreck a 240D... if you get my drift. The great thing about the rabbits is they're hugely fuel efficient (42 - 50mpg), highly reliable, and - dirt cheap. The achilles heel is the timing belt. Change it every 50K miles, change the oil every 3K, and you may well get 300K miles out of one. Vernon - ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.B. Hebert" To: Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2003 9:05 AM Subject: Any 190D 5 Speeds Out There? > So, due to events out of my control, I am forced to start commuting 150 > miles a day. I was looking at various options like the VW TDI (too > expensive) or an earlier Rabbit (too small/slow) and find myself really > liking the 190D with the 2.5 liter turbo diesel. I know the 2.2 would give > me a little better economy, but I want a little better performance that I > feel it can offer. So here's the deal: I really want a 2.5 with the 5 > speed. However, I cannot find a single one for sale anywhere. Are they > really that rare, or are people just not selling them? While I'm at it, > are there any "gotchas" with the 190 that I should be aware of? My main > experience is with the W123 platform. If anyone has any leads on a nice > 2.5 with a 5 speed, or ideas on where to look, I'd really appreciate > it. If I can't find one, I'll probably settle for an automatic, but I'd > still love a 5 speed. > > Thanks in advance. > > J.B. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 08:15:52 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: 190D economy At 10:05 AM 5/18/2003 -0400, J.B. Hebert wrote: >I know the 2.2 would give me a little better economy, but I want a little >better performance that I feel it can offer. the 2.2L gets better economy then the 2.5L TD? how about the 3.0L in the 123's, I thought the turbo's did better... Trying to figure out which Diesel Benz I'm going to keep... :) the '80 300CD or the '85 190D... both should get good economy... The last 5 speed 190D I saw was last seen heading south with a guy named Kevin... ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1024 **********************************