From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #1031 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, May 21 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1031 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. Re: Problem with instrument lights Re: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. Re: Problem with instrument lights Re: Problem with instrument lights Power Seats WAS: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. Re: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. Speedo wobble Re: Power Seats WAS: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. Re: Power Seats WAS: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Re: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. Re: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 12:15:39 -0400 From: "Aimino, Michael" Subject: RE: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. Open the door or turn the ignition on. Either should allow the power seats to work. That's how it works on my '81 300SD. Nice feature actually. The passenger can adjust their seat before getting in and even if the driver hasn't turned on the ignition. - -----Original Message----- From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 12:12 PM To: Jim Steere; diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. so, in order to adjust the power seat you need to open the door? hmm, maybe I need to open the trunk to get the a/c working... ;) john At 11:49 AM 5/21/2003 -0400, Jim Steere wrote: >I just went through a wiring diagram. The damned thing's SUPPOSED to work >that way. Needless to say, this is gettin' re-engineered. > >Duh. > >Jim > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "john" >To: "Jim Steere" ; >Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 11:44 AM >Subject: Re: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! > > > > I don't know, but my a/c compressor and aux fan don't work > > after changing the ignition switch... too weird... one thing > > the german cars don't do well is the wiring... > > > > weird problem, but it sounds isolated to that kick panel, > > a lot of wiring goes through that area... > > > > john > > > > At 11:36 AM 5/21/2003 -0400, Jim Steere wrote: > > >Gotta '84 W201 in my shop (shhhh....it's a gasser....not a >greaseburner....but > > >anyway) with a WIERD problem....and it's only 11:30 AM here. This is not >a > > >Budweiser and/or controlled substance-induced dilemma. I promise. I > > >sometimes wonder if I'm a magnet for those "gee, I ain't NEVER seen that > > >problem before" sorta' stuff. > > > > > > > > >Bought a really clean, low-mile '84 190E to sell, and I'm sortin' out a >few > > >glitches.....the car's nice enough that I want it perfect. The freakin' >power > > >seats won't work unless the driver's door is open! The ignition feed to >the > > >relay is broken by one of the two door jamb switches in the driver's side > > >front door....you can actually hear the relay "click" as you open and >close > > >the door. > > > > > >Anyone EVER seen this....and can save me a ton of disassembly and/or > > >trouble-shooting? > > > > > > > > > > > >Jim Steere > > >Everything Automotive > > >Crystal, MI > > >www.usedbenzparts.com > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 10:34:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert L Bell Jr Subject: Re: Problem with instrument lights Sorry 1982 240D Paul Schwartz wrote:Which type of car? Paul - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L Bell Jr" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 8:25 AM Subject: Problem with instrument lights > Two lights stay on during driving the brake light and the circle light with the lines right next to the brake light. Is something wrong with the brakes? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 10:52:47 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 10:58:54AM +0000, acordova-at-texas.net wrote: > Now that you mention it, that's right. On my 89 300CE, with power adjustment > of both front seats, the seats will only move if the ignition is on or if the > appropriate door is open. That is correct behavior for my car. > > Do those seats move when the door is closed and the ignition is on? I believe > they should. That's pretty trippy. On my crown victoria (and the colony parks and the country squire), pushing the button to move the power seat moves the power seat regardless of key position, or door position. All that matters is that the battery isn't dead. Actually, same thing for the 84 eagle with power seats. The seats on my 190 work regardless of key position or door position, but they are manual :) I'm getting the impression that I should be happy I don't have a lot of electrogizmos (comparatively speaking) to worry about. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (2.2, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 11:03:14 -0700 From: "Paul Schwartz" Subject: Re: Problem with instrument lights The circle light on my 240D is the pad wear sensor, I think it's also the low fluid sensor as well. If your brake fluid is up and your pads are OK, then you've got a short in there somewhere. The normal pad wear mode is that the light come on and goes off for a while, generally, it comes on when you press the brake pedal. I think the way it works is that there is a wire embedded in the brake pad and when the pad wears enough so the wire touches the brake disk, then the light comes on. If the wire has a break in it somewhere and it grounds out then the light comes on all the time. The best way to find a short like this is to start at the brake pads and disconnect the wires, following the wire disconnecting at every connection until the light goes out. then you will at least have located the section of wire that is shorted to ground. Paul - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L Bell Jr" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 10:34 AM Subject: Re: Problem with instrument lights ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 13:14:54 US/Central From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: Problem with instrument lights Additional notes now that we know your car. The yellow light is triggerred by electrical contacts inserted into the FRONT brake pads. When those pads wear down enough, the contacts make contact, and the yellow dash light tells you your front brake pads are getting low. There is no such warning light system for the REAR pads. They may or may not have been replaced on your car. They tend to last a REALLY long time. So let's assume that both your front and your rear brake pads are worn pretty thin. This means the pistons in all four brake calipers have to be pushed most of the way out to squeeze those skinny pads against the rotors, which are probably also at the thin end of their lives, further contributing to how far the caliper pistons have to push. Brake fluid pushes the caliper pistons. To push them far enough to work well with scrawny old pads on scrawny old rotors, you have to use a lot of brake fluid. This will lower the level in the brake fluid reservoir, possibly enough to cause the red warning light to come on. Reason number one not to delay: Your brakes are wearing thin, and you are at risk of both reduced braking power and damage to more expensive pieces if you don't repair/replace the parts that are considered normal wear items. Reason number two not to delay: If everything is really worn thin enough, it may deplete all the brake fluid available in the reservoir and start drawing air into the braking system. This is very ineffective for braking purposes and can also contribute to faster wear of expensive braking system components. Really cheap temporary fix is to add a little CLEAN, NEW brake fluid. This may resolve the red warning light, and let you wait a little while before addressing the yellow light, which is to replace the brake pads (and the wear sensors). Downside of this is that when you finally replace the pads, you may have to draw some of that brake fluid back out. Or you could cycle all the brake fluid through the system anyway when you install the new pads, in which case you will need more new brake fluid. Better fix is to replace worn pads and wear sensors, and rotors, too, if they are worn sufficiently, and flush out all the old brake fluid. I recommend Rusty for great prices on the parts. http://www.buymbparts.com The work is wonderfully easy on that model of MB, whether you do it yourself or pay a trusted mechanic. If paying someone else, it's always best if they are familiar with this vintage of MB cars, but for this particular job, it is not essential. They may in fact give a couple of oohs and aahs when they see how nicely engineered these 20-year-old brakes are. Speaking of which, there is a medium-cheap and very easy fix, which is to replace just the front pads and sensors. Your particular car may truly need new rotors and/or some work on the back brakes, too, but you might be able to get by with just new front pads. They are very easy to replace using the tools in the MB toolkit, plus one big blunted nail to push the pad retaining pins out with. New set of pads plus four new wear sensors should run less than 40 bucks from Rusty. Sorry if you already know all of this. just in a rambling mood today. Alec > Sorry 1982 240D > > Paul Schwartz wrote:Which type of car? > > Paul > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert L Bell Jr" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 8:25 AM > Subject: Problem with instrument lights > > > > Two lights stay on during driving the brake light and the circle light > with the lines right next to the brake light. Is something wrong with the > brakes? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 13:19:25 US/Central From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Power Seats WAS: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. > The seats on my 190 work regardless of key position or door position, but they > are manual :) > > I'm getting the impression that I should be happy I don't have a lot of > electrogizmos (comparatively speaking) to worry about. > > K > Ah, but you miss out on the nifty power seat controls on the door, with pieces that look just like the seat bottom and seat back (and the headrest for newer models like mine). A legitimate triumph of the teutonic drive for language- neutral ergonomics, as opposed to the controls on all the stinkin factory radios. Alec ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 14:32:21 -0400 From: "Jim Steere" Subject: Re: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. Found the problem......some mental defective installed some stupid alarm system with MILES of wire and a bunch of butchery in the wiring under the fuse box is the ignition and dome light circuits (among others). Now that everythis in ripped out and soldered back together, it all works like it's supposed to. Morons......they oughtta' stick to working on cop-attracting FWD cars with stupid looking spoilers, stickers, graphics, tires hangin' outta' the wheelwells and stereo systems that go "thump-thump"..... I'd rather have someone steal the damned thing than put up with one of those alarms......besides....no-one EVER pays any attention to 'em. > > Do those seats move when the door is closed and the ignition is on? I believe > > they should. They do now..... > > That's pretty trippy. On my crown victoria (and the colony parks and the > country squire), pushing the button to move the power seat moves the power seat > regardless of key position, or door position. All that matters is that the > battery isn't dead. Actually, same thing for the 84 eagle with power seats. > > The seats on my 190 work regardless of key position or door position, but they > are manual :) > > I'm getting the impression that I should be happy I don't have a lot of > electrogizmos (comparatively speaking) to worry about. No, Kevin.... you should be happy that the aforementioned butcher that put the alarm system in this car didn't put one in yours. (Cranky and Old and Bald) Jim > > K > > -- > Kevin Pekarek > Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and > Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) > 85 190D (2.2, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 11:45:19 -0700 From: "DerickAA" Subject: Speedo wobble Howdy, I have had a problem with my 190 for the past couple of months and I thought I would ping the list to see if anyone has seen this. My speedometer oscillates at speeds below 30 mph. I know it is the speedometer do to replacing it. However the speedo is original to the car and reflects the proper milage. I thought before I cracked into it I would see if anyone has repaired a problem like this. I guess if all else fails I could hook a drill motor up to my spare and run it up a a 150k. :) Derick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 11:51:37 -0700 From: "Paul Schwartz" Subject: Re: Power Seats WAS: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. > Ah, but you miss out on the nifty power seat controls on the door, with pieces > that look just like the seat bottom and seat back (and the headrest for newer > models like mine). A legitimate triumph of the teutonic drive for language- > neutral ergonomics, as opposed to the controls on all the stinkin factory > radios. Almost every book I've read on user interface design points to the Mercedes seat controls as a near perfect design. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 14:09:53 US/Central From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: Power Seats WAS: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical > > Ah, but you miss out on the nifty power seat controls on the door, with > pieces > > that look just like the seat bottom and seat back (and the headrest for > newer > > models like mine). A legitimate triumph of the teutonic drive for > language- > > neutral ergonomics, as opposed to the controls on all the stinkin factory > > radios. > > > Almost every book I've read on user interface design points to the Mercedes > seat controls as a near perfect design. > > Paul > And they're just so darned cute! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 16:00:29 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. Yep, Mine work the same way. I thought it was weird because I was moving some stuff and tried to adjust the seat with the door closed from the outside. (the window was open). The seat did not work. I opened the door and was about to put the key in the ignition and the seat started working again. My Volvo had some "subtle" features as well. If you had cruise control on in the rain and and went through a big puddle it would disengage by itself to prevent you from spinning out uncontrollably with the cruise on. Robert. Aimino, Michael wrote: >Open the door or turn the ignition on. Either should allow the power seats to >work. That's how it works on my '81 300SD. Nice feature actually. The >passenger can adjust their seat before getting in and even if the driver >hasn't turned on the ignition. > >-----Original Message----- >From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] >Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 12:12 PM >To: Jim Steere; diesel-benz-at-digest.net >Subject: Re: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. > > >so, in order to adjust the power seat you need to open the door? > >hmm, maybe I need to open the trunk to get the a/c working... ;) > >john > > >At 11:49 AM 5/21/2003 -0400, Jim Steere wrote: > > >>I just went through a wiring diagram. The damned thing's SUPPOSED to work >>that way. Needless to say, this is gettin' re-engineered. >> >>Duh. >> >>Jim >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "john" >>To: "Jim Steere" ; >>Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 11:44 AM >>Subject: Re: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! >> >> >> >> >>>I don't know, but my a/c compressor and aux fan don't work >>>after changing the ignition switch... too weird... one thing >>>the german cars don't do well is the wiring... >>> >>>weird problem, but it sounds isolated to that kick panel, >>>a lot of wiring goes through that area... >>> >>>john >>> >>>At 11:36 AM 5/21/2003 -0400, Jim Steere wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Gotta '84 W201 in my shop (shhhh....it's a gasser....not a >>>> >>>> >>greaseburner....but >> >> >>>>anyway) with a WIERD problem....and it's only 11:30 AM here. This is >>>> >>>> >not > > >>a >> >> >>>>Budweiser and/or controlled substance-induced dilemma. I promise. I >>>>sometimes wonder if I'm a magnet for those "gee, I ain't NEVER seen that >>>>problem before" sorta' stuff. >>>> >>>> >>>>Bought a really clean, low-mile '84 190E to sell, and I'm sortin' out a >>>> >>>> >>few >> >> >>>>glitches.....the car's nice enough that I want it perfect. The freakin' >>>> >>>> >>power >> >> >>>>seats won't work unless the driver's door is open! The ignition feed to >>>> >>>> >>the >> >> >>>>relay is broken by one of the two door jamb switches in the driver's >>>> >>>> >side > > >>>>front door....you can actually hear the relay "click" as you open and >>>> >>>> >>close >> >> >>>>the door. >>>> >>>>Anyone EVER seen this....and can save me a ton of disassembly and/or >>>>trouble-shooting? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Jim Steere >>>>Everything Automotive >>>>Crystal, MI >>>>www.usedbenzparts.com >>>> >>>> >>>------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >>> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >>> jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >>>------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> > >------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 16:12:04 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. Heh heh, I have seen the butchery myself. Thats why if your Mercedes has an aftermarket radio or alarm be prepared to pull it out if I am interested in buying your car. Otherwise "no thanks". There are too many teenage morons installing these things at circuit shitty and other wiring harness chop places. If the harness is chopped I dont buy. The main problem with aftermarket electronics is it never lasts as long as the car does. I had an Accord that I had an alarm put into with keyless entry and now the new owner is complaining to me about how it goes off all the time (they are a friend of mine). Now they get to go in and remove the sucker when its wired into the ignition power locks and other circuitry. However the alarm does have one positive thing going for it. It kept the car from being stolen once in a parking deck downtown. Robert. Jim Steere wrote: >Found the problem......some mental defective installed some stupid alarm >system with MILES of wire and a bunch of butchery in the wiring under the >fuse box is the ignition and dome light circuits (among others). Now that >everythis in ripped out and soldered back together, it all works like it's >supposed to. Morons......they oughtta' stick to working on cop-attracting >FWD cars with stupid looking spoilers, stickers, graphics, tires hangin' >outta' the wheelwells and stereo systems that go "thump-thump"..... > >I'd rather have someone steal the damned thing than put up with one of those >alarms......besides....no-one EVER pays any attention to 'em. > > > > >>>Do those seats move when the door is closed and the ignition is on? I >>> >>> >believe > > >>>they should. >>> >>> > >They do now..... > > >>That's pretty trippy. On my crown victoria (and the colony parks and the >>country squire), pushing the button to move the power seat moves the power >> >> >seat > > >>regardless of key position, or door position. All that matters is that the >>battery isn't dead. Actually, same thing for the 84 eagle with power >> >> >seats. > > >>The seats on my 190 work regardless of key position or door position, but >> >> >they > > >>are manual :) >> >>I'm getting the impression that I should be happy I don't have a lot of >>electrogizmos (comparatively speaking) to worry about. >> >> > >No, Kevin.... you should be happy that the aforementioned butcher that put >the alarm system in this car didn't put one in yours. > > >(Cranky and Old and Bald) Jim > > >>K >> >>-- >>Kevin Pekarek >>Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and >>Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) >>85 190D (2.2, 5spd) ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1031 **********************************