From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #1032 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Thursday, May 22 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1032 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. Re: Power Seats WAS: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. Re: Speedo wobble RE: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. RE: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. Re: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. RE: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. Veggie Bus Re: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. Re: Veggie Bus RE: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. Re: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. Re: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. Re: photos for 123 frame-straightening Re: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. Re: Speedo wobble Re: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 16:14:23 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. OK... Anyone want to take a stab at the logic behind this!?!?! I'm sorry, but I would think that if I wanted to adjust my seats I'd be sitting in them with the door CLOSED! I'm a good German but the logic here escapes me! ;) Jim/ '83 240D > Yep, > > Mine work the same way. I thought it was weird because I was moving > some stuff and tried to adjust the seat with the door closed from the > outside. (the window was open). The seat did not work. I opened the > door and was about to put the key in the ignition and the seat started > working again. > > My Volvo had some "subtle" features as well. If you had cruise control > on in the rain and and went through a big puddle it would disengage by > itself to prevent you from spinning out uncontrollably with the cruise on. > > Robert. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 16:19:36 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: Power Seats WAS: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. Yep, Thats why BMW and Volvo have both stolen it and stuck it on the side of the seat so you cant say they ripped off MB :) R. Paul Schwartz wrote: >>Ah, but you miss out on the nifty power seat controls on the door, with >> >> >pieces > > >>that look just like the seat bottom and seat back (and the headrest for >> >> >newer > > >>models like mine). A legitimate triumph of the teutonic drive for >> >> >language- > > >>neutral ergonomics, as opposed to the controls on all the stinkin factory >>radios. >> >> > > >Almost every book I've read on user interface design points to the Mercedes >seat controls as a near perfect design. > >Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 16:25:03 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: Speedo wobble Hmmm Is it "that" bad? Personally I would rather have a guage with personality then having to deal with the odometer issues. I guess I am used to flakey instrumentation. Its quite common for the Attitude indicator in lots of planes to bounce wildly until the Vacuum system gets its groove going :) I have had them bouncing wildly just before taking the active runway for departure. Heck I once even had a tachometer that was flakey and ended up aborting a takeoff because of it. Brought the plane back in and discovered no one had written it up in the log but the dispatcher knew all about it "oh yeah its fine it just shows 400rpm lower than it should" Robert DerickAA wrote: >Howdy, > >I have had a problem with my 190 for the past couple of months and I thought >I would ping the list to see if anyone has seen this. > >My speedometer oscillates at speeds below 30 mph. I know it is the >speedometer do to replacing it. However the speedo is original to the car >and reflects the proper milage. > >I thought before I cracked into it I would see if anyone has repaired a >problem like this. I guess if all else fails I could hook a drill motor up >to my spare and run it up a a 150k. :) > >Derick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 16:26:43 -0400 From: "Aimino, Michael" Subject: RE: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. You can adjust the seats with the door closed if the ignition key is on. - -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hoffman [mailto:jslash-at-execpc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 4:14 PM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. OK... Anyone want to take a stab at the logic behind this!?!?! I'm sorry, but I would think that if I wanted to adjust my seats I'd be sitting in them with the door CLOSED! I'm a good German but the logic here escapes me! ;) Jim/ '83 240D > Yep, > > Mine work the same way. I thought it was weird because I was moving > some stuff and tried to adjust the seat with the door closed from the > outside. (the window was open). The seat did not work. I opened the > door and was about to put the key in the ignition and the seat started > working again. > > My Volvo had some "subtle" features as well. If you had cruise control > on in the rain and and went through a big puddle it would disengage by > itself to prevent you from spinning out uncontrollably with the cruise on. > > Robert. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 15:32:58 US/Central From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: RE: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. I look at it as: You can always adjust the seats when the ignition is on. But Gee. It would be handy to be able to adjust the seats before climbing in, say when changing between really tall and really short drivers, or when loading back seat passengers in my 300CE coupe, or even to show off the cool features at the dealership. Well, MB thought of that. You don't have to climb inside, stick the key in and turn it. Just open the door, and the seat power is live. Those silly Germans think of everything. Or at least they used to back then. ;-) Alec > You can adjust the seats with the door closed if the ignition key is on. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Hoffman [mailto:jslash-at-execpc.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 4:14 PM > To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. > > > OK... Anyone want to take a stab at the logic behind this!?!?! > > I'm sorry, but I would think that if I wanted to adjust my seats > I'd be sitting in them with the door CLOSED! I'm a good German > but the logic here escapes me! ;) > > Jim/ > > '83 240D > > > Yep, > > > > Mine work the same way. I thought it was weird because I was moving > > some stuff and tried to adjust the seat with the door closed from the > > outside. (the window was open). The seat did not work. I opened the > > door and was about to put the key in the ignition and the seat started > > working again. > > > > My Volvo had some "subtle" features as well. If you had cruise > control > > on in the rain and and went through a big puddle it would disengage by > > itself to prevent you from spinning out uncontrollably with the cruise > on. > > > > Robert. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 13:35:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. Robert Chase wrote: > > Heh heh, > > I have seen the butchery myself. Thats why if your Mercedes has an > aftermarket radio or alarm be prepared to pull it out if I am interested > in buying your car. Otherwise "no thanks". There are too many teenage > morons installing these things at circuit shitty and other wiring > harness chop places. If the harness is chopped I dont buy. > *** You could buy mine without worrrying. I know how to solder, and I know how to use shrink tubing. Even most avionics shop work is not good enough for me. I have spent many pleasant hours cleaning up the wiring in my airplane. The main problem with aftermarket electronics is it never lasts as long > as the car does. *** Really? My impression is that it's hard to beat a modern Japanese radio. The Becker hit the trashcan shortly after I bought my 300D. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 17:11:22 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: RE: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. Well that makes sense but I guess I didn't understand it that way from the previous posts. :) Jim/ '83 240D > You can adjust the seats with the door closed if the ignition key is on. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 15:12:18 -0600 From: scott_haaland-at-agilent.com Subject: Veggie Bus Considering all the discussion lately about veggie oil as an alternative fuel source, I thought you'd all get a kick out of this one: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&e=2&u=/ap/vegetable_oil_bus Status info: Project Bio Bus: http://www.projectbiobus.com - --Scott ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 17:12:42 -0400 From: "Jim Steere" Subject: Re: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. > *** You could buy mine without worrrying. I know how to solder, and I > know how to use shrink tubing. Even most avionics shop work is not > good enough for me. I have spent many pleasant hours cleaning up the > wiring in my airplane. Refreshing to see someone as picky as myself, Jerry. Amazin. That's what I did most of the day on this poor violated W201. After I took out several miles of wiring, a few switches and boxes and crap, and soldered and shrink-wrapped all the places they'd cut & spliced that alarm in.....everything works. > > The main problem with aftermarket electronics is it never lasts as long > > as the car does. > > *** Really? My impression is that it's hard to beat a modern Japanese > radio. The Becker hit the trashcan shortly after I bought my 300D. Amen there. It amazes me that the newer Beckers have that anti-theft code crap in 'em. Any intelligent thief wouldn't bother with one. I spent a whole weekend (I admit, I'm wierd...) dissecting the face off an OEM Becker radio, mounting it on a piece of .125 aluminum, making my own mounts (withour butcherin' the dash) and recessed a waaaay good head unit my (still unfinished.... moan...) 300TD restoration....and the removable "door" I made outta' the Becker covers the ghastly aftermarket tunes. Looks stock.....but it sure don't *sound* like the dismal OEM one. Jim Steere Everything Automotive Crystal, MI www.usedbenzparts.com > > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 17:21:34 -0400 From: Michael Frank Subject: Re: Veggie Bus It's good to see young people involved in Diesel technology.... Mike Frank At 05:12 PM 5/21/03, scott_haaland-at-agilent.com wrote: >Considering all the discussion lately about veggie oil as an alternative >fuel source, I thought you'd all get a kick out of this one: >http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&e=2&u=/ap/vegetable_oil_bus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 17:30:36 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: RE: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. Ahhhh.... Now that makes complete sense Alec! Thanks for that explaination. As you might be able to tell already, I've never had an MB w/power seats... or power windows either ;) Jim/ '83 240D > I look at it as: > > You can always adjust the seats when the ignition is on. > > But Gee. It would be handy to be able to adjust the seats before climbing in, > say when changing between really tall and really short drivers, or when loading > back seat passengers in my 300CE coupe, or even to show off the cool features > at the dealership. Well, MB thought of that. You don't have to climb inside, > stick the key in and turn it. Just open the door, and the seat power is live. > > Those silly Germans think of everything. Or at least they used to back then. ;-) > > Alec ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 14:42:38 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 01:35:32PM -0700, Jerome Kaidor wrote: > *** Really? My impression is that it's hard to beat a modern Japanese > radio. The Becker hit the trashcan shortly after I bought my 300D. I must be missing something... I have an OEM radio in my 190, and it seems fine. Sure, the top row of LED's isn't quite functional so you have to be able to read klingon (or use the star button) to know what frequency you are listening to, but that's neither here nor there. Are you guys all running ghetto benzes with limo tint and a pair of subs in the trunk? :) K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (2.2, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 15:37:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. Kevin Pekarek wrote: > > On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 01:35:32PM -0700, Jerome Kaidor wrote: > > *** Really? My impression is that it's hard to beat a modern Japanese > > radio. The Becker hit the trashcan shortly after I bought my 300D. > > I must be missing something... I have an OEM radio in my 190, and it seems > fine. Sure, the top row of LED's isn't quite functional so you have to be > able to read klingon (or use the star button) to know what frequency you are > listening to, but that's neither here nor there. **** Mine had a shorted final transistor in one of the audio amplifiers. I made an effort to fix it, but by the time you get one of those things apart enough to get at stuff, nothing is hooked up any more. I would have had to make an internal test harness. It seemed like too much work, especially since I didn't have the schematics. Seeing that the car wasn't a collectors item, and like I said - the Japanese really make good radios - the obvious practical thing was to go down to the mall and get a new one. I got one with the features I wanted, and a minimum of eye candy, and called it a day. > > Are you guys all running ghetto benzes with limo tint and a pair of subs in > the trunk? :) > **** No, but I did just order a pair of chrome curb feelers. Whups, that was for our cargo van. My wife'll kill me if I scratch the rear bumper one more time... - Jerry "La cuca-ra-cha!" Kaidor ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 16:54:13 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: photos for 123 frame-straightening that'd be a lot of work for you, no need... if worse comes to worse I'll stand up on the highway at the end of my drive and wave down a 123 benz... ;) I certainly appreciate the offer, that was very nice, thanx, john At 04:51 PM 5/21/2003 +0000, mjmason-at-juno.com wrote: >Hey John, > >When we rehabbed my old 240D from a run-in with a deer, we took pictures >of an '82 parts car, with a tape measure readable in the photos (yes, it >was decidedly low-tech)... Unless you've already gotten the answers you >need, I'll try to find them tonight and scan them for you. > >As I recall they're mostly from firewall to the cross-piece in front of >the radiator, to make sure we had its alignment straight between left and >right sides... I'll see what I can find. > >Matt - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 17:16:13 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. I'm still dealing with electrical issues, probably induced by the moron that installed not one, but TWO alarm systems in my 190D... like someone is going to steal a 190D... I can just see a couple of bank robbers now... yeah, let's get a fast getaway car... here, let's snag this 190D... ;) john At 02:32 PM 5/21/2003 -0400, Jim Steere wrote: > > I'm getting the impression that I should be happy I don't have a lot of > > electrogizmos (comparatively speaking) to worry about. > >No, Kevin.... you should be happy that the aforementioned butcher that put >the alarm system in this car didn't put one in yours. > > >(Cranky and Old and Bald) Jim - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 17:17:40 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: Speedo wobble could be the cable... mine was doing it real bad and I put some ATF in the upper part of the cable, applied air (with the lower part disconnected) sprayed ATF all over the ground, reconnected and it's much better now... in the past I've replaced cables and that fixed the problem, it's probaby not the speedo unit or the tranny, cable is first suspect. john At 11:45 AM 5/21/2003 -0700, DerickAA wrote: >Howdy, > >I have had a problem with my 190 for the past couple of months and I thought >I would ping the list to see if anyone has seen this. > >My speedometer oscillates at speeds below 30 mph. I know it is the >speedometer do to replacing it. However the speedo is original to the car >and reflects the proper milage. > >I thought before I cracked into it I would see if anyone has repaired a >problem like this. I guess if all else fails I could hook a drill motor up >to my spare and run it up a a 150k. :) > >Derick - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 17:25:38 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 05:16:13PM -0700, john wrote: > >No, Kevin.... you should be happy that the aforementioned butcher that put > >the alarm system in this car didn't put one in yours. very true, and I am. > I'm still dealing with electrical issues, probably induced by > the moron that installed not one, but TWO alarm systems in my 190D... > like someone is going to steal a 190D... I can just see a couple > of bank robbers now... yeah, let's get a fast getaway car... here, > let's snag this 190D... ;) LOL As it is, I usually leave the car in the parking lot with the windows that will roll down (and back up) down. I don't keep anything of value in the car, and figure if someone DID steal it, they wouldn't make it too far too quickly :) The thing to remember, though, is back in their day, it looked just like a 190E (well, it still does, I'd imagine ), and if you didn't know what the difference between the D and the E, you were in for quite a surprise. Especially if the car was cold and you didn't know to let it glow first :) K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (2.2, 5spd) ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1032 **********************************