From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #1040 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Sunday, May 25 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1040 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: teutonic battlecruisers (and rice powered ones too) RE: teutonic battlecruisers RE: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. RE: JC's 560SEL RE: JC's 560SEL Re: teutonic battlecruisers (and rice powered ones too) Re: JC's 560SEL RE: JC's 560SEL RE: teutonic battlecruisers Re: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. Torque spec. Diesel S Class Noise was JC's 560 SEL Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 06:47:53 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: teutonic battlecruisers (and rice powered ones too) my son was into the street racing scene a couple of summers ago... he had a mild '67 fairlane with a 289 in it... there wasn't a honda there that could touch it... the only thing that did better then him was a 396 camaro... the hondas and other "ricers" didn't even bother with the american iron... :) john At 03:53 AM 5/25/2003 -0400, Robert Chase wrote: >The supercharger and nitrous might add some appeal to some teenager when >Im ready to sell the damn thing. Of course it would have to be stock >looking on the outside. I would not be caught dead in some of the cars >with Honda emblems I have seen rolling down the road these days :). > >Nothing like a suprise at a redlight eh? > >Robert. - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 11:54:12 -0600 From: "JC Jones" Subject: RE: teutonic battlecruisers > -----Original Message----- > From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] > Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 11:23 PM > > you know there's a supercharger kit for "only" $3,995 for > my '99 WJ 4.7L V8 that'll give you some serious competition > Mr. 560. ;) > rofl... but some how I can't imagine it having the same reliability > overall as that of a benz... What do you have to do to the engine to run a supercharger? I would think you would have to decrease the compression at a minimum, if not replace the rods and pistons too. > amazing things these teutonic battlecruisers... :) > > I haven't been as impressed with Bmw's though... kind of soured > on them after testing out a 530i a few years ago... I remember > in Germany the BMW's rusted out a lot quicker then the > Mercedes did too... my '71 2500 rotted away in less then a > year after I sold it... it had a few blisters when I went > back to the states, the next year it wouldn't pass the > technical inspection... it was quite sad... I drove a couple of BMW's, including the 7 series when I started seriously considering a higher end luxury sport sedan. In my humble opinion, nothing BMW builds (that is a comparable size and age) can hold a candle to a big displacement w126. Not in the performance category, or in the comfort and luxury category either. Show me a BMW of the same age that has a heated power reclining rear seat, heated power front seats, soft "Barka Lounger" type leather, etc. that can still pull a <6 sec 0-60. The only negatives I can find to the w126 are the complexity of the electrical system and the price of the parts. > So, JC, any performance upgrades for Kevin's and my 190D's? > :) I mean besides that tow strap off the back of your 560... ;) If it were me, I would put a low boost turbo on it and think seriously about propane injection. I talked in length to the mechanics at a diesel truck performance place here in Denver about propane injection. I was going to do that to my 300D before the 560 fell in my lap. With the 300D, my biggest problem I was going to face with a turbo was overheating of the pistons, but apparantly propane injection not only radically increases the Cetane, but also cools the combustion chamber which theoretically should compensate for the additional heat produced by the turbo. I was going to come up with a propane injection system based on throttle position, essentially not add any until a certain throttle position, and max volume at WOT (that's when it would be most needed and the turbo would be at maximum boost). I'll bet that propane injection and a turbo would make the little 190D smoke a lot of those little rice rockets folks are building these days. I really want to build a sleeper w126 3.0l diesel with propane injection and a supercharger in place of the turbo. Imagine an oil burner with a <4 second 0-60! JC Jones :) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 12:49:01 -0600 From: "JC Jones" Subject: RE: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. > -----Original Message----- > From: Kevin Pekarek [mailto:kevin-at-mordred.punk.net] > Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 12:58 AM > Yeah, I bet that fuel distributor is a pricey number too. Oh > well, that's to be expected though. I don't think I want to know how much that would be... > Obviously the engine in that thing was running great. I saw > the redline > additive when I was getting another gallon of delo 400 for > changing the oil, but didn't get it - maybe next time. What > kind of difference did it make? The entire drivetrain in my 300D is in great shape (except the flexplate). I may still make it into a sleeper, but it does have a lot of rust. I don't know exactly what difference the RedLine makes other than it keeps the injectors quiet and definetely makes it run better overall. > AFA going back to the gutless diesel, I took the crown vic > out for a romp > this afternoon. Even though it has its abundance of torque > (and everyone > merged over when I got onto the freeway because it still > looks like a patrol car), I wasn't disappointed with the 190 > when I got back into it. I'd imagine the performance of a > police interceptor crown victoria is somewhat similar than > your 560 SEL, though with a whole lot less class than the 560 > has, and a lot less refinement as well. I have an 84 Crown Vic (5.0 HO) with the Police and Taxi package. It does not have near the effect it used to from the standpoint of people thinking it's a police car in the rear view, but it really gets up an goes too. > BTW, one of the people near los osos had this old ambassador > wagon that had a few missing teeth on the flex plate - a good > yank on the accessory belts was > usually enough to let the starter grab onto something. > > Then again, that was an 8.5:1 343, and not some 22:1 diesel. > Might need a > wrench :) I actually got to to turn over a few more revolutions by rotating the engine until the starter bit again, but after a few more revolutions the starter gear jammed into the edge of the teeth on the flexplate, so now I can't even turn the engine over with a breaker bar any more. Need to R&R the transmission to fix it now. :( JC Jones :) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 12:54:40 -0600 From: "JC Jones" Subject: RE: JC's 560SEL > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john > Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 11:48 PM > nice looking... reminds me of my 300SD... which I don't miss... > > looking at the book (see below) I was reading about the 300D > from '87 and up... it's a 124 chassis which looks a lot like > the 201... My Wife really likes the w124 300E. We stopped and looked at a beautiful 92 400E, but the price tag was twice what I paid for my 560SEL. She doesn't want a diesel for some reason, but at least she wants a Benz - that's a step in the right direction. > I'm only interested in having a Diesel Benz... not interested > in paying $130 for a distributor cap. ;) I was a little bummed at the parts prices... > btw found the specs in my book for the 560SEL: > > 120.9 in wheelbase > 208.1 in length > 56.7 in tall > 40.2 ft turning radius > 3,982 lbs > max speed: 156 mph! > 0 to 60 - SAME AS MY '99 WJ!!! 7.2 seconds!!! ;) > fuel consumption 18 mpg. I think the book is mistaken ;) I may not be a nuclear physicist, but I can push the buttons on a stopwatch, and my 0-60 is less than 6 seconds. That's even at 5200', I can only imagine what this car will do at sea level. Maybe they did their testing on a really hot day or something. ;) > Nitske says the 560SEL ran from 1985-1992. > > I still think the heated/reclining rear seats are quite > trick... and I believe your fuel economy specs, you know how > to calculate fuel economy because of your FSJ experience. ;) I was really surprised when I was sitting in the back seat "getting to know my new car" and I pushed the button on the door wondering what it did and the seat started to move. > Some of these specs in this book, pg 241, are a bit confusing > because they're intermingled with the 560SE... in fact, the 0 > to 60 time may actually be 8.0 seconds... and economy at 15 avg... > > best bet, drive out here and we'll race the Grand Cherokee > against it... if you win, the book is wrong, if we tie, it's > right. ;) if we get a ticket, it's Kevin's fault. ;) As soon as I get to know the car better, I'm going to take up to the local drag strip on "test and tune" night and see just exactly what it will do in the 1/4. I'll post a picture of the slip... :) JC Jones :) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 12:54:40 -0600 From: "JC Jones" Subject: RE: JC's 560SEL > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Robert Chase > Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 1:46 AM > Hmmm, > > You know for a while I really liked the later model w-126 > headlights. > Now im sorta really partial to the european ones. The smooth > look kinda > reminds me of a cross between the later model w-126 headlamps and the > w-140's smoothness. I would like to put the eiro headlights on mine, but I would have to also find the euro headlight wipers as I won't do without those. ;) > Very pretty 560 though. I have toyed with the idea of a late > model 420 > for a little bit. I have a feeling that the gas powered S > class sedans > are a little more "refined" than the diesel powered ones. My car's I really like this body style, I can't stand the 92 up S-Class, it's just kind of "bloated" looking and you can't immediately tell it's a Benz. I love the look of my w126, and you can tell it's a Benz at just a glance - even if you are not familiar at all with Mercedes. JC Jones :) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 15:39:12 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: teutonic battlecruisers (and rice powered ones too) Hmmm, I dunno if I would be one into "street racing" but making a normally boring car a little more exciting would be fun :). Robert. john wrote: > > my son was into the street racing scene a couple of summers ago... > he had a mild '67 fairlane with a 289 in it... there wasn't a honda > there that could touch it... the only thing that did better then > him was a 396 camaro... the hondas and other "ricers" didn't even bother > with the american iron... :) > > john > > At 03:53 AM 5/25/2003 -0400, Robert Chase wrote: > >> The supercharger and nitrous might add some appeal to some teenager >> when Im ready to sell the damn thing. Of course it would have to be >> stock looking on the outside. I would not be caught dead in some of >> the cars with Honda emblems I have seen rolling down the road these >> days :). >> >> Nothing like a suprise at a redlight eh? >> >> Robert. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 15:50:09 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: JC's 560SEL JC Jones wrote: >>From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net >>[mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Robert Chase >>Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 1:46 AM >> >> > > > >>Hmmm, >> >>You know for a while I really liked the later model w-126 >>headlights. >>Now im sorta really partial to the european ones. The smooth >>look kinda >>reminds me of a cross between the later model w-126 headlamps and the >>w-140's smoothness. >> >> > >I would like to put the eiro headlights on mine, but I would have to also >find the euro headlight wipers as I won't do without those. ;) > > I lucked out and found a diesel with both :) > > >>Very pretty 560 though. I have toyed with the idea of a late >>model 420 >>for a little bit. I have a feeling that the gas powered S >>class sedans >>are a little more "refined" than the diesel powered ones. My car's >> >> > >I really like this body style, I can't stand the 92 up S-Class, it's just >kind of "bloated" looking and you can't immediately tell it's a Benz. I >love the look of my w126, and you can tell it's a Benz at just a glance - >even if you are not familiar at all with Mercedes. > I really like the w-140's look as its the final "square body" benz before Mercedes started really rounding off the corners to make their cars look like everyone elses. Its also by far the largest of the older styling Benzes. The only thing I dont like about the w-140 is it does not feel like a Mercedes at all. Its a huge car with overboosted power steering and very little road feel. It would be a great car for trips but I love the suspension of my w-126 too much. > >JC Jones :) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 13:56:51 -0700 From: john Subject: RE: JC's 560SEL OR, they were thinking about insurance premiums, or safety or federal regulations... or loaded it to the max or tied a 300SDL behind it to improve it's performance or it was a French test driver or... ;) john At 12:54 PM 5/25/2003 -0600, JC Jones wrote: > > 0 to 60 - SAME AS MY '99 WJ!!! 7.2 seconds!!! ;) > > fuel consumption 18 mpg. > >I think the book is mistaken ;) >I may not be a nuclear physicist, but I can push the buttons on a stopwatch, >and my 0-60 is less than 6 seconds. That's even at 5200', I can only >imagine what this car will do at sea level. Maybe they did their testing on >a really hot day or something. ;) > > > Nitske says the 560SEL ran from 1985-1992. - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 13:59:51 -0700 From: john Subject: RE: teutonic battlecruisers At 11:54 AM 5/25/2003 -0600, JC Jones wrote: > > you know there's a supercharger kit for "only" $3,995 for > > my '99 WJ 4.7L V8 that'll give you some serious competition > > Mr. 560. ;) > > rofl... but some how I can't imagine it having the same reliability > > overall as that of a benz... > >What do you have to do to the engine to run a supercharger? I would think >you would have to decrease the compression at a minimum, if not replace the >rods and pistons too. From the looks of the kit you install it as a bolt on... it's in the performance products catalog & website... Kenne Belle... same folks that make nice (expensive) catalogs for the Diesel Benz (mlc). john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 14:23:01 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: WIERD -at-#&%$ W201 Electrical Gremlin....Help! Duh. Update. On Sun, May 25, 2003 at 12:49:01PM -0600, JC Jones wrote: > > Yeah, I bet that fuel distributor is a pricey number too. Oh > > well, that's to be expected though. > > I don't think I want to know how much that would be... I think I looked a while back just for kicks, and it was over a grand. Then again, the injector pump for my 190 is over 800 for a rebuilt... > The entire drivetrain in my 300D is in great shape (except the flexplate). > I may still make it into a sleeper, but it does have a lot of rust. I don't > know exactly what difference the RedLine makes other than it keeps the > injectors quiet and definetely makes it run better overall. May have to try some of that next time, and may want to use your tip about the fuel filter. It's nice having a daily driver that is rock solid but has a few blemishes or some rust on the body - you care less about if some cheesebrain dings your doors in some parking lot. > I have an 84 Crown Vic (5.0 HO) with the Police and Taxi package. It does > not have near the effect it used to from the standpoint of people thinking > it's a police car in the rear view, but it really gets up an goes too. Mine's a 94, repainted in a silver-blue metallic (which is pretty faded from life on the coast), complete with black push bumpers, chrome spotlights, a 110 watt UHF motorola syntor with 1/4 wave high band VHF (works out to a 3/4 wave UHF after some tweaking), a POS ham twin band with a quarter wave UHF and a 5/8 wave VHF (think highway patrol antenna), and an 800 MHz motorola maxtrac 300 (with a little bitty 1/4 wave for it). There's also a scanner feeding off the stereo antenna. The entire setup works really REALLY well as a mobile rig (except some ignition noise on the ham radio), and the range on the UHF syntor is unbelievable (but if you idle with the lights on and key it up it dims the lights BIG TIME). 94 is the body style before current, so it still has "effect" on the freeway, and if it's parked and someone looks in, it looks pretty darn authentic :) > I actually got to to turn over a few more revolutions by rotating the engine > until the starter bit again, but after a few more revolutions the starter > gear jammed into the edge of the teeth on the flexplate, so now I can't even > turn the engine over with a breaker bar any more. Need to R&R the > transmission to fix it now. :( DOH From the sound of it, the car seems like it's worth a tranny r&r to get the flexplate replaced. Don't think they're overly expensive either. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (2.2, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 15:18:59 -0700 From: "Paul Schwartz" Subject: Torque spec. Anyone know the torque specs for the flex plates on a 77 240D? Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 19:07:25 US/Eastern From: tmarti20-at-tampabay.rr.com Subject: Diesel S Class Noise was JC's 560 SEL I guess my 300 SD is noisy for a luxury car and the 300SDLs I've been in are quieter but, before this car I drove a 92 VW Cabriolet and a 74 Beetle - so to me it is total quiet. Besides I really dont' notice engine noise much with a CD in and I kind of like being able to hear it - somehow I guess it makes me more aware it is still there and running like it should. > Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 03:45:49 -0400 > From: Robert Chase > Subject: Re: JC's 560SEL > > Hmmm, > > You know for a while I really liked the later model w-126 headlights. > Now im sorta really partial to the european ones. The smooth look kinda > reminds me of a cross between the later model w-126 headlamps and the > w-140's smoothness. > > Very pretty 560 though. I have toyed with the idea of a late model 420 > for a little bit. I have a feeling that the gas powered S class sedans > are a little more "refined" than the diesel powered ones. My car's > suspension and handling is fine but the engine noise is a little bit > much on the highway than one would expect out of an S class. Maybee its > just my car. While we are on the subject anybody have any luck with the > "sound deadening" mods that they have out for the diesel benzes? I have > considered the one that goes in the engine compartment as well as some > additional sound insulation under the front carpets and in the door > panels. I of course want the best of both worlds :). > > Robert. > > > > john wrote: > > > At 11:24 PM 5/24/2003 -0600, JC Jones wrote: > > > >> http://www.mbzcorner.com/90_560SEL/ > >> These were taken the day after I brought it home, I have since > >> adjusted the > >> headlight wipers so they sit at the angle they are supposed to, > >> adjusted the > >> headlights, washed it, etc. > >> JC :) > > > > > > nice looking... reminds me of my 300SD... which I don't miss... > > > > looking at the book (see below) I was reading about the 300D from '87 > > and up... it's a 124 chassis which looks a lot like the 201... > > > > I'm only interested in having a Diesel Benz... not interested in paying > > $130 for a distributor cap. ;) > > > > btw found the specs in my book for the 560SEL: > > > > 120.9 in wheelbase > > 208.1 in length > > 56.7 in tall > > 40.2 ft turning radius > > 3,982 lbs > > max speed: 156 mph! > > 0 to 60 - SAME AS MY '99 WJ!!! 7.2 seconds!!! ;) > > fuel consumption 18 mpg. > > > > Nitske says the 560SEL ran from 1985-1992. > > > > I still think the heated/reclining rear seats are quite trick... > > and I believe your fuel economy specs, you know how to calculate > > fuel economy because of your FSJ experience. ;) > > > > Some of these specs in this book, pg 241, are a bit confusing > > because they're intermingled with the 560SE... in fact, the > > 0 to 60 time may actually be 8.0 seconds... and economy at 15 avg... > > > > best bet, drive out here and we'll race the Grand Cherokee against > > it... if you win, the book is wrong, if we tie, it's right. ;) if > > we get a ticket, it's Kevin's fault. ;) > > > > john > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > > Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------ ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1040 **********************************