From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #1044 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, May 28 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1044 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: Clunking Sound - Rear Re: Clunking Sound - Rear Re: Clunking Sound - Rear Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 22:26:55 -0500 From: "Vernon Tuck" Subject: Re: Clunking Sound - Rear Kevin! If I were the publisher of "Chilton's Manual" I'd offer you a blinkin' job! Good job! Thanks! Vernon - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin McLaughlin" To: "john" ; "Vernon Tuck" ; "T. C. in Kentucky" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 10:18 PM Subject: Re: Clunking Sound - Rear > (whoops, bounced the message, used wrong sender address) > > Actually, this is one of the jobs I've done on my old 123. There are > locking rings on the ends of the shafts inside the differential, so > it's a bit more complicated: > > 1. jack up car > 2. drain differential > 3. remove wheels > 3a. remove exhaust pipe to clear some space > 4. drop differential (involves removing quite a few bolts here and > there; lower it with a jack and rest it on something) > 5. remove differential cover > 6. pull off locking rings, they have a tab with a hole in it, but you > can't just pull on the tab, you've got to get something through that > little hole to pull on (a special tool, or a piece of copper wire and > some needlenose pliers. this can be a royal pain.) > 7. remove a couple other bolts here and there (at least the one in > the center of the wheel-mounts that holds the half-shaft in) > 8. slide out half shafts > 9. proceed in reverse, sort of. get a MB manual for the torque > settings for the wheel bolts in the half shafts, and make sure you > clean and seal the differential cover. > > There is some trickiness in getting the half shafts in and out of the > wheel mounts and differential, but you'll figure it out (might have > to move the differential up and down a bit). > > Voila. For what it's worth, I did this job and it didn't fix my > rattling, but the joint boots were cracked, so it needed to be done > anyway. Got the parts from carparts.com, total cost was around $150 > in parts, and many hours in labor (maybe 12 - didn't really know what > I was doing). > > I bet I could do it in 4 hours now. > > Oh, and hello everyone, I don't say much on this list though I enjoy > reading it. Thought I'd chime in since this is a job I remember very > vividly. > > -Kevin > > At 7:58 PM -0700 5/27/03, john wrote: > >do they sell the half-shafts like they do for some of > >the fwd cars? shouldn't be too hard to just unbolt > >these shafts and replace 'em as a unit... I've done > >VW bus rear axles in minutes... piece of cake... > > > >john > > > >At 09:54 PM 5/27/2003 -0500, Vernon Tuck wrote: > >>Yes, CV joints. > >> > >>A couple of my 123s are out of commission over that issue. > >> > >>VT > >>----- Original Message ----- > >>From: "john" > >>To: "Vernon Tuck" ; "T. C. in Kentucky" > >> > >>Cc: > >>Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 9:44 PM > >>Subject: Re: Clunking Sound - Rear > >> > >> > >> > At 09:31 PM 5/27/2003 -0500, Vernon Tuck wrote: > >> > >Welll... I'm shooting from the hip... but I'll wager my money it's the > >>rear > >> > >drive axles (u-joints). > >> > > >> > haven't looked... don't you mean CV joints? (if they are they are > >> > technically double cardan joints so we're both right... ;) > >> > > >> > does sound right... I really need to find the time to crawl under > >> > my Benz's... Have two here, but rarely get under them... jeeps, now > >> > that's an entirely different situation, I don't mind sliding under a > >> > Jeep and enjoying the view... but getting under one of these little > >> > cars is too much like work... don't need to do anything to check > >> > under my Jeeps... :) Just go under 'em... > >> > > >> > Maybe we should look into a lift kit for the 190D... ;) > >> > > >> > john > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >VT > >> > >----- Original Message ----- > >> > >From: "john" > >> > >To: "T. C. in Kentucky" > >> > >Cc: > >> > >Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 9:15 PM > >> > >Subject: Re: Clunking Sound - Rear > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > gonna share this with the DieselBenz list... mainly because I > >> > > > don't know and I've got strange sounds coming from under my 190D as > >>well. > >> > > > > >> > > > I'd say that the flex discs could be going... hard to say... not > >> > > > sure what to expect as there are no u-joints that I'm used to dealing > >> > > > with. :) > >> > > > > >> > > > john > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > At 07:09 PM 5/27/2003 -0500, T. C. in Kentucky wrote: > >> > > > "T. C. in Kentucky" > >> > > > >John, > >> > > > > Been a member of the fsj-digest for quit some time. Good work > >> > > > >or should I say a great service since I understand the feeling of > >> > > > >looking for a real job. > >> > > > > I need some advice or opinions on a 190E 2.3. I have this > >> > > > >ratcheting sound that has continued for about six months. First > >> > > > >it was once per month, then nothing for several weeks/month etc., > >> > > > >lately it has finally gotten to the point I can cause it to > >> > > > >happen, usually when you decelerate for a moment and it will sound > >> > > > >off, then you can accelerate an it will stop. > >> > > > >Put it on floor jacks today, checked diff. oil level, grabbed > >> > > > >drive shaft, axle drives, shocks, checked for excess slop in diff. > >> > > > >(quarter inch maybe). Then I lowered one wheel to pavement and > >> > > > >accelerated and decelerate - had ratcheting sounds a plenty!!!!!!. > >> > > > >(thought I found it...) "Think I will try the other side for > >> > > > >tricks" same ratcheting. (sounds like a locker ratcheting on a > >> > > > >4X4). > >> > > > > I'm back to: 1. Is it the transaxle/u-joints on axles going or > >> > > > >gone? > >> > > > > 2. Too much wear (slop) in the differential? > >> > > > >Any ideas to share? > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >T. C. in Kentucky > >> > > > >tcharvey-at-duo-county.com > >> > > > > >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > > > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > >> > > > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > >> > > > Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > >> > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > >> > Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------ > > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > > Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > >------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 22:32:10 -0500 From: "Vernon Tuck" Subject: Re: Clunking Sound - Rear Back when I boned up on this repair I was "educated" by an independent shop owner who "educated" me to justify a repair bill which, if my memory serves (and it often doesn't!) was about 1500 abdullahs (parts plus labor)! VT - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin McLaughlin" To: "john" ; "Vernon Tuck" ; "T. C. in Kentucky" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 10:18 PM Subject: Re: Clunking Sound - Rear > (whoops, bounced the message, used wrong sender address) > > Actually, this is one of the jobs I've done on my old 123. There are > locking rings on the ends of the shafts inside the differential, so > it's a bit more complicated: > > 1. jack up car > 2. drain differential > 3. remove wheels > 3a. remove exhaust pipe to clear some space > 4. drop differential (involves removing quite a few bolts here and > there; lower it with a jack and rest it on something) > 5. remove differential cover > 6. pull off locking rings, they have a tab with a hole in it, but you > can't just pull on the tab, you've got to get something through that > little hole to pull on (a special tool, or a piece of copper wire and > some needlenose pliers. this can be a royal pain.) > 7. remove a couple other bolts here and there (at least the one in > the center of the wheel-mounts that holds the half-shaft in) > 8. slide out half shafts > 9. proceed in reverse, sort of. get a MB manual for the torque > settings for the wheel bolts in the half shafts, and make sure you > clean and seal the differential cover. > > There is some trickiness in getting the half shafts in and out of the > wheel mounts and differential, but you'll figure it out (might have > to move the differential up and down a bit). > > Voila. For what it's worth, I did this job and it didn't fix my > rattling, but the joint boots were cracked, so it needed to be done > anyway. Got the parts from carparts.com, total cost was around $150 > in parts, and many hours in labor (maybe 12 - didn't really know what > I was doing). > > I bet I could do it in 4 hours now. > > Oh, and hello everyone, I don't say much on this list though I enjoy > reading it. Thought I'd chime in since this is a job I remember very > vividly. > > -Kevin > > At 7:58 PM -0700 5/27/03, john wrote: > >do they sell the half-shafts like they do for some of > >the fwd cars? shouldn't be too hard to just unbolt > >these shafts and replace 'em as a unit... I've done > >VW bus rear axles in minutes... piece of cake... > > > >john > > > >At 09:54 PM 5/27/2003 -0500, Vernon Tuck wrote: > >>Yes, CV joints. > >> > >>A couple of my 123s are out of commission over that issue. > >> > >>VT > >>----- Original Message ----- > >>From: "john" > >>To: "Vernon Tuck" ; "T. C. in Kentucky" > >> > >>Cc: > >>Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 9:44 PM > >>Subject: Re: Clunking Sound - Rear > >> > >> > >> > At 09:31 PM 5/27/2003 -0500, Vernon Tuck wrote: > >> > >Welll... I'm shooting from the hip... but I'll wager my money it's the > >>rear > >> > >drive axles (u-joints). > >> > > >> > haven't looked... don't you mean CV joints? (if they are they are > >> > technically double cardan joints so we're both right... ;) > >> > > >> > does sound right... I really need to find the time to crawl under > >> > my Benz's... Have two here, but rarely get under them... jeeps, now > >> > that's an entirely different situation, I don't mind sliding under a > >> > Jeep and enjoying the view... but getting under one of these little > >> > cars is too much like work... don't need to do anything to check > >> > under my Jeeps... :) Just go under 'em... > >> > > >> > Maybe we should look into a lift kit for the 190D... ;) > >> > > >> > john > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >VT > >> > >----- Original Message ----- > >> > >From: "john" > >> > >To: "T. C. in Kentucky" > >> > >Cc: > >> > >Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 9:15 PM > >> > >Subject: Re: Clunking Sound - Rear > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > gonna share this with the DieselBenz list... mainly because I > >> > > > don't know and I've got strange sounds coming from under my 190D as > >>well. > >> > > > > >> > > > I'd say that the flex discs could be going... hard to say... not > >> > > > sure what to expect as there are no u-joints that I'm used to dealing > >> > > > with. :) > >> > > > > >> > > > john > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > At 07:09 PM 5/27/2003 -0500, T. C. in Kentucky wrote: > >> > > > "T. C. in Kentucky" > >> > > > >John, > >> > > > > Been a member of the fsj-digest for quit some time. Good work > >> > > > >or should I say a great service since I understand the feeling of > >> > > > >looking for a real job. > >> > > > > I need some advice or opinions on a 190E 2.3. I have this > >> > > > >ratcheting sound that has continued for about six months. First > >> > > > >it was once per month, then nothing for several weeks/month etc., > >> > > > >lately it has finally gotten to the point I can cause it to > >> > > > >happen, usually when you decelerate for a moment and it will sound > >> > > > >off, then you can accelerate an it will stop. > >> > > > >Put it on floor jacks today, checked diff. oil level, grabbed > >> > > > >drive shaft, axle drives, shocks, checked for excess slop in diff. > >> > > > >(quarter inch maybe). Then I lowered one wheel to pavement and > >> > > > >accelerated and decelerate - had ratcheting sounds a plenty!!!!!!. > >> > > > >(thought I found it...) "Think I will try the other side for > >> > > > >tricks" same ratcheting. (sounds like a locker ratcheting on a > >> > > > >4X4). > >> > > > > I'm back to: 1. Is it the transaxle/u-joints on axles going or > >> > > > >gone? > >> > > > > 2. Too much wear (slop) in the differential? > >> > > > >Any ideas to share? > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >T. C. in Kentucky > >> > > > >tcharvey-at-duo-county.com > >> > > > > >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > > > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > >> > > > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > >> > > > Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > >> > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > >> > Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------ > > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > > Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > >------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 22:34:22 -0500 From: "Vernon Tuck" Subject: Re: Clunking Sound - Rear PMS... I should have said "a would have been repair bill of about 1500 abdullahs" since I respectfully declined to authorize the work. VT - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vernon Tuck" To: "john" ; "T. C. in Kentucky" ; "Kevin McLaughlin" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 10:32 PM Subject: Re: Clunking Sound - Rear > Back when I boned up on this repair I was "educated" by an independent shop > owner who "educated" me to justify a repair bill which, if my memory serves > (and it often doesn't!) was about 1500 abdullahs (parts plus labor)! > > VT > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kevin McLaughlin" > To: "john" ; "Vernon Tuck" ; "T. C. > in Kentucky" > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 10:18 PM > Subject: Re: Clunking Sound - Rear > > > > (whoops, bounced the message, used wrong sender address) > > > > Actually, this is one of the jobs I've done on my old 123. There are > > locking rings on the ends of the shafts inside the differential, so > > it's a bit more complicated: > > > > 1. jack up car > > 2. drain differential > > 3. remove wheels > > 3a. remove exhaust pipe to clear some space > > 4. drop differential (involves removing quite a few bolts here and > > there; lower it with a jack and rest it on something) > > 5. remove differential cover > > 6. pull off locking rings, they have a tab with a hole in it, but you > > can't just pull on the tab, you've got to get something through that > > little hole to pull on (a special tool, or a piece of copper wire and > > some needlenose pliers. this can be a royal pain.) > > 7. remove a couple other bolts here and there (at least the one in > > the center of the wheel-mounts that holds the half-shaft in) > > 8. slide out half shafts > > 9. proceed in reverse, sort of. get a MB manual for the torque > > settings for the wheel bolts in the half shafts, and make sure you > > clean and seal the differential cover. > > > > There is some trickiness in getting the half shafts in and out of the > > wheel mounts and differential, but you'll figure it out (might have > > to move the differential up and down a bit). > > > > Voila. For what it's worth, I did this job and it didn't fix my > > rattling, but the joint boots were cracked, so it needed to be done > > anyway. Got the parts from carparts.com, total cost was around $150 > > in parts, and many hours in labor (maybe 12 - didn't really know what > > I was doing). > > > > I bet I could do it in 4 hours now. > > > > Oh, and hello everyone, I don't say much on this list though I enjoy > > reading it. Thought I'd chime in since this is a job I remember very > > vividly. > > > > -Kevin > > > > At 7:58 PM -0700 5/27/03, john wrote: > > >do they sell the half-shafts like they do for some of > > >the fwd cars? shouldn't be too hard to just unbolt > > >these shafts and replace 'em as a unit... I've done > > >VW bus rear axles in minutes... piece of cake... > > > > > >john > > > > > >At 09:54 PM 5/27/2003 -0500, Vernon Tuck wrote: > > >>Yes, CV joints. > > >> > > >>A couple of my 123s are out of commission over that issue. > > >> > > >>VT > > >>----- Original Message ----- > > >>From: "john" > > >>To: "Vernon Tuck" ; "T. C. in Kentucky" > > >> > > >>Cc: > > >>Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 9:44 PM > > >>Subject: Re: Clunking Sound - Rear > > >> > > >> > > >> > At 09:31 PM 5/27/2003 -0500, Vernon Tuck wrote: > > >> > >Welll... I'm shooting from the hip... but I'll wager my money it's > the > > >>rear > > >> > >drive axles (u-joints). > > >> > > > >> > haven't looked... don't you mean CV joints? (if they are they are > > >> > technically double cardan joints so we're both right... ;) > > >> > > > >> > does sound right... I really need to find the time to crawl under > > >> > my Benz's... Have two here, but rarely get under them... jeeps, now > > >> > that's an entirely different situation, I don't mind sliding under a > > >> > Jeep and enjoying the view... but getting under one of these little > > >> > cars is too much like work... don't need to do anything to check > > >> > under my Jeeps... :) Just go under 'em... > > >> > > > >> > Maybe we should look into a lift kit for the 190D... ;) > > >> > > > >> > john > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > >VT > > >> > >----- Original Message ----- > > >> > >From: "john" > > >> > >To: "T. C. in Kentucky" > > >> > >Cc: > > >> > >Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 9:15 PM > > >> > >Subject: Re: Clunking Sound - Rear > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > gonna share this with the DieselBenz list... mainly because I > > >> > > > don't know and I've got strange sounds coming from under my 190D > as > > >>well. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > I'd say that the flex discs could be going... hard to say... > not > > >> > > > sure what to expect as there are no u-joints that I'm used to > dealing > > >> > > > with. :) > > >> > > > > > >> > > > john > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > At 07:09 PM 5/27/2003 -0500, T. C. in Kentucky wrote: > > >> > > > "T. C. in Kentucky" > > >> > > > >John, > > >> > > > > Been a member of the fsj-digest for quit some time. Good > work > > >> > > > >or should I say a great service since I understand the feeling > of > > >> > > > >looking for a real job. > > >> > > > > I need some advice or opinions on a 190E 2.3. I have this > > >> > > > >ratcheting sound that has continued for about six months. > First > > >> > > > >it was once per month, then nothing for several weeks/month > etc., > > >> > > > >lately it has finally gotten to the point I can cause it to > > >> > > > >happen, usually when you decelerate for a moment and it will > sound > > >> > > > >off, then you can accelerate an it will stop. > > >> > > > >Put it on floor jacks today, checked diff. oil level, grabbed > > >> > > > >drive shaft, axle drives, shocks, checked for excess slop in > diff. > > >> > > > >(quarter inch maybe). Then I lowered one wheel to pavement and > > >> > > > >accelerated and decelerate - had ratcheting sounds a > plenty!!!!!!. > > >> > > > >(thought I found it...) "Think I will try the other side for > > >> > > > >tricks" same ratcheting. (sounds like a locker ratcheting on a > > >> > > > >4X4). > > >> > > > > I'm back to: 1. Is it the transaxle/u-joints on axles going > or > > >> > > > >gone? > > >> > > > > 2. Too much wear (slop) in the > differential? > > >> > > > >Any ideas to share? > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > >T. C. in Kentucky > > >> > > > >tcharvey-at-duo-county.com > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> > > > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > > >> > > > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > > >> > > > Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > > >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > > >> > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > > >> > Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > > > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > > > Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > > >------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1044 **********************************