From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #1056 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Thursday, June 5 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1056 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: Looking for a car Re: Looking for a car Re: Looking for a car Re: coupe around here f/s (was coupe bashing) Re: Looking for a car Re: Looking for a car Re: coupe around here f/s (was coupe bashing) Re: Looking for a car Re: coupe around here f/s (was coupe bashing) Re: Looking for a car RE: coupe around here f/s (was coupe bashing) RE: Looking for a car Re: Looking for a car Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 13:17:54 -0500 From: DanG Subject: Re: Looking for a car Didja see this one - close to you and seemingly went for decent $$. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2416889081 In addition, don't be afraid of a long drive home. I flew to Boston for my 240D and loved that drive home to ChiTown in 1998. Dan ChicagoArea - you bet JimH I love my 4spd 240D > OK... I've been watching the local papers, eBay, AutoTrader, etc. trying to > track down a decent diesel Benz. My results have been disappointing at > best. At this point I think I really want a 190D 2.5 with a manual. The > few that I've come across have sold for WAY more than what they are worth, > or are no where near me. The other car I would entertain would be a solid > '82 or later 300CD. Unfortunately, all the ones I've looked at have been > in pretty crummy shape. Of course, if the right 300D or 300TD came along I > would consider it. I am located in the Northeast (Long Island). Does > anyone know of any good cars for sale in this area (I'll drive a ways for a > good car), or have a great source for MB classifieds? I'm looking to spend > around 3k, but could go higher for a nice CD. > > Please help! :) > > Thanks. > > J.B. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 14:41:08 -0400 From: "J.B. Hebert" Subject: Re: Looking for a car Rub salt in my wounds... ;) I had the winning bid on that car and was sniped at the last minute. I think $3150 is a little high for a car with 218k miles, but probably a good deal considering. I'm certainly not afraid to drive a bit, but of course all the good cars I'm seeing are in CA, and I just don't have the time for a cross-country jaunt anytime soon. Even though it would be cool. Thanks, J.B. At 01:17 PM 6/5/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Didja see this one - close to you and seemingly went for decent $$. >http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2416889081 > >In addition, don't be afraid of a long drive home. I flew to Boston for >my 240D and loved >that drive home to ChiTown in 1998. >Dan ChicagoArea - you bet JimH I love my 4spd 240D > > > OK... I've been watching the local papers, eBay, AutoTrader, etc. trying to > > track down a decent diesel Benz. My results have been disappointing at > > best. At this point I think I really want a 190D 2.5 with a manual. The > > few that I've come across have sold for WAY more than what they are worth, > > or are no where near me. The other car I would entertain would be a solid > > '82 or later 300CD. Unfortunately, all the ones I've looked at have been > > in pretty crummy shape. Of course, if the right 300D or 300TD came along I > > would consider it. I am located in the Northeast (Long Island). Does > > anyone know of any good cars for sale in this area (I'll drive a ways for a > > good car), or have a great source for MB classifieds? I'm looking to spend > > around 3k, but could go higher for a nice CD. > > > > Please help! :) > > > > Thanks. > > > > J.B. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 11:42:06 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: Looking for a car On Thu, Jun 05, 2003 at 01:45:32PM -0400, J.B. Hebert wrote: > I appreciate the feedback. While I have not owned a 190 series car, I have > owned several 300 series cars, all with diesels, so I know what to expect > with them. In a head-to-head longevity contest, I will always put my money > on the 300. But for my purposes, a 190 might fit the bill as well. I have > a 150 mile a day commute, so economy and reliability are a must. This is > why a gas engine is not being considered. My only concern with the 190 is > interior space. In the few examples I have driven, I need the seat all the > way down and most of the way back or my head is hitting (I'm 6'2"). I like > the fuel ecconomy potential with the 190, however I have been able to get > 30-35 MPG out of my W123 cars with little effort. I have no problems > putting a little work into a car. I'd rather replace suspension rubber > than redo a MB A/C system any day. My biggest problem is probably going to > be finding a rust free example of anything. I am willing to go south a bit > for a good car (NC area or thereabouts). I've only owned one mercedes (though, looking at my past track record - two hornets, four eagles, two big jeeps, four crown vics... I don't think that will stay that way for long), and it is the 190D I have now. I am also 6'2, and don't have a problem having to lean the seat back for head clearance. I actually can wear a cowboy hat without hitting the ceiling, and don't have to open the sunroof. Then again, the left seat has more worn springs (probably one broken one), but because of the additional clearance it gives, I'm not in a hurry to fix it :) With someone as tall as me in the front seat, the person in the back seat needs to be pretty short, as there isn't much legroom left. Since I rarely have passengers in the 190D (and when I do, it's almost always just one), this is not a problem for me. I don't know if your situation is different. I drove a few w123s before I got the w201, and the 123 is a bigger car. It has more legroom, a little more headroom, and feels a little more solid going down the road. Then again, the w201 (horsepower aside) feels sportier than the bigger w123s. If you are able to squeeze mid thirties out of a w123, that's about as good as an automatic w201 gets for mileage. The stick does a little better. IIRC, as the engines got bigger (from 2.2 to 2.5) the mileage suffered. I remember JC saying he was getting 38 mpg out of an automatic NA 300D, which is right around what I get with a manual tranny 2.2L 190D. > Anyway, thanks again for the feedback. If anyone has any leads, they're > more than appreciated. Well, any leads I'd have would be from the west coast, but if I see something that looks like a decent car, I try to pass it along to the list. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (2.2, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 14:47:03 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: coupe around here f/s (was coupe bashing) Hmmm, A similar fate I have considered for my 2002 Honda Accord that wont sell . Robert Chase. Eurowerks wrote: >All of this coupe talk is making me think that I should not have parted out >the perfectly good running and driving 85' 300CD (Seafoam in color with a >light tan interior). No rust but a minor dent in the left rear quarter. >Too late now, all of its running gear and most of the interior trim is >already gone. I could have sold the car for around $4-$5000.00, but it was >worth more in parts than as a whole. I think that overall I made about >$6500.00 off of the parts sales and I still have the body and all of the >seats and a few of the other interior goodies! > >Kirk A. Gilchrist >EURO-WERKS / Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Volvo Service and Repair >8 South Highland St. / Winchester, KY 40391 / 859-745-0125 >eurowerks-at-qx.net / 888-522-0271 toll free ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 11:53:05 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: Looking for a car On Thu, Jun 05, 2003 at 02:41:08PM -0400, J.B. Hebert wrote: > I'm certainly not afraid to drive a bit, but of course all the good cars > I'm seeing are in CA, and I just don't have the time for a cross-country > jaunt anytime soon. Even though it would be cool. I hear that. And here I live in california and drove home one from washington that needs some (minor) rust repair. Something seems backwards about this :) There are a few of us in california and I'm sure at least one of us would be willing to help out on this end as long as you promised to give it a good home . It costs roughly $800 to ship a car from coast to coast, and you can usually get a break if you drop it off at the warehouse and pick it up from there (to avoid residential delivery charges). K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (2.2, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 11:55:54 -0700 From: Eric Ditwiler Subject: Re: Looking for a car How are people getting 30 out of a 123 Diesel? I am doing good to get 25 out of my 82 300 CD. Is it the speed? Where these cars made to go 55 and get thirsty at 70? Or is there something I should be looking at in mine? I have new injectors and plenty of compression. My boost tops out at 10 psi going 70 up a hill and runs at about 5 cruising on the flats. I use no oil and coast like the bearings are good. What should I be trying to tweak? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 11:55:02 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: coupe around here f/s (was coupe bashing) On Thu, Jun 05, 2003 at 02:47:03PM -0400, Robert Chase wrote: > A similar fate I have considered for my 2002 Honda Accord that wont sell > . Ooooh. A honda chopping party? I'll bring the beer and the sawzall. :) Seriously though, why don't you try to lemon law that POS back to honda with all the brake problems you're having? K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (2.2, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 12:05:34 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: Looking for a car On Thu, Jun 05, 2003 at 11:55:54AM -0700, Eric Ditwiler wrote: > How are people getting 30 out of a 123 Diesel? I'm assuming they diddle with the injector pump timing a bit and don't haul arse all over the place. Most of the people I know getting over 30 mpg in a 123 fall into two categories: - NA 300D running better than mercedes intended - 240D in decent running shape > I am doing good to get 25 out of my 82 300 CD. Should be able to get at least 28 out of it. The supertankers get 25 without too much difficulty, and the 123 is a lighter car. > Is it the speed? Where these cars made to go 55 and get thirsty at 70? > Or is there something I should be looking at in mine? I have new > injectors and plenty of compression. My boost tops out at 10 psi going > 70 up a hill and runs at about 5 cruising on the flats. I use no oil > and coast like the bearings are good. Dealing with hills will hurt you (which is why Derick got 40 with mine and I get about 38... wonder if that spare tranny in the trunk is hurting mileage any ), spending a lot of time driving around town will hurt quite a bit as well. The EPA figures (which are not always accurate) list a 7-10 mpg penalty for city driving vs. highway driving depending on the car. Consider traffic to be city driving. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (2.2, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 15:06:16 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: coupe around here f/s (was coupe bashing) Yep, Considering that too actually. Problem is that its easier to settle with the car company with your attorney than to take them to court. Very few lemon law cases actually make it to court but before the going to court process there are the three D's to deal with from the car company. As well they usually want to give you another one of their cars (its cheaper than coming out of pocket with cash). I dont want another one of these cars at all. Deny - "we could not find anything wrong with your car" Disencourage - "Yeah right you have no case" Delay - "Ok Ok you got us we will settle..... In a few months perhaps" Personally I would rather cut the car up and sell it in parts for more than it is worth and take another car of theirs off the road. One less Honda on the road means one less car for them to be able to sell as a used car and one less car to make a dealership money in service. Perhaps I could make a website of the entire process and other people might "part out" troublesome new cars and get em off the road so the car companies cant make so much in parts by gouging people. Robert. Kevin Pekarek wrote: >On Thu, Jun 05, 2003 at 02:47:03PM -0400, Robert Chase wrote: > > >>A similar fate I have considered for my 2002 Honda Accord that wont sell >>. >> >> > >Ooooh. A honda chopping party? I'll bring the beer and the sawzall. :) > >Seriously though, why don't you try to lemon law that POS back to honda with >all the brake problems you're having? > >K ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 15:30:37 -0400 From: "J.B. Hebert" Subject: Re: Looking for a car My '84 Euro 300TD was getting about 35 for the first 200k miles. Then it dropped to around 30 up until I sold it with 350k miles. Check to make sure that your pressure line to the ALDA isn't plugged so that it isn't leaning out your fuel mixture. I've found on these cars that when they're running right, or even a little rich, they tend to get better economy than when they're lean. Not exactly sure (have some theories), but that's what I've found. Obviously, check your filters and it isn't a bad idea to run some diesel purge through now and again. J.B. At 11:55 AM 6/5/2003 -0700, you wrote: >How are people getting 30 out of a 123 Diesel? > >I am doing good to get 25 out of my 82 300 CD. > >Is it the speed? Where these cars made to go 55 and get thirsty at 70? >Or is there something I should be looking at in mine? I have new >injectors and plenty of compression. My boost tops out at 10 psi going >70 up a hill and runs at about 5 cruising on the flats. I use no oil >and coast like the bearings are good. > >What should I be trying to tweak? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 15:50:44 -0400 From: "Aimino, Michael" Subject: RE: coupe around here f/s (was coupe bashing) FYI, the 300TD and the 300D parts car have been sold. Still have a BIG Ford diesel, if anyone's interested. ;-> Pics of the Ford: http://www.alltel.net/~maimino/sales/Jun0316.jpg http://www.alltel.net/~maimino/sales/Jun0317.jpg http://www.alltel.net/~maimino/sales/Jun0318.jpg http://www.alltel.net/~maimino/sales/Jun0319.jpg http://home.alltel.net/maimino/sales/Jun0321.jpg (that's not rust on the hood - just debris). - -----Original Message----- From: Aimino, Michael Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 12:22 PM To: john; acordova-at-texas.net Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: RE: coupe around here f/s (was coupe bashing) Not to pick nits, but that manual tranny is in a 300D parts car. Yes, you read that correctly - a 300D. It's a gray market Euro car, '81, with a non turbo engine and a 4spd manual. I have one interested person already, but he doesn't take it, I'll let the list know. - -----Original Message----- From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 12:09 PM To: acordova-at-texas.net Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: coupe around here f/s (was coupe bashing) On Thu, 5 Jun 2003 acordova-at-texas.net wrote: >-->Didn't you mention earlier that your 240 has a manual tranny? Ooooh, that would >-->be sweet in a coupe. ;-) >-->Alec Mike in PA has a manual tranny he'd sell, out of a 240D, if someone has a rad with the tranny cooler in it, be happy to swap rads... also have the plastic center console piece for the manual trans... :) let me know... the care package made it safely... will be working on the 300CD later today. :) john >--> >-->> Hmmmmm.... Take the engine/tranny out of my 240D and put it into >-->> a nice CD.... Just a little too far away... OH NO!! I'm starting >-->> to think like John!!!!! ;) >-->> >-->> Jim/ >-->> >-->> '83 240D >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:53:19 -0500 From: "Black, Waylon" Subject: RE: Looking for a car The cars were designed to operate -at- 55 mph. That was the US speed limit in the early eighties. You will get the best mileage -at- max torque rpm + 10%. So if max torque is -at- 2500. You will get the best mileage at 2750 RPM (2500rpm. + 250). There are a few websites that you can plug in your axle ratio, tire size, and speed and you will find that your rpms -at- 55 mph is real close to your peak. So to get good mpg at 70 requires about a 2.80 ring gear for a turbo diesel and 205/75/14 tires. The early 300 SDs have a 3.07, I think the later models had something a little taller. Waylon - -----Original Message----- From: J.B. Hebert [mailto:jhebert-at-wrxtra.com] Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 2:31 PM To: eric_ditwiler-at-HMC.Edu Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: Looking for a car My '84 Euro 300TD was getting about 35 for the first 200k miles. Then it dropped to around 30 up until I sold it with 350k miles. Check to make sure that your pressure line to the ALDA isn't plugged so that it isn't leaning out your fuel mixture. I've found on these cars that when they're running right, or even a little rich, they tend to get better economy than when they're lean. Not exactly sure (have some theories), but that's what I've found. Obviously, check your filters and it isn't a bad idea to run some diesel purge through now and again. J.B. At 11:55 AM 6/5/2003 -0700, you wrote: >How are people getting 30 out of a 123 Diesel? > >I am doing good to get 25 out of my 82 300 CD. > >Is it the speed? Where these cars made to go 55 and get thirsty at 70? >Or is there something I should be looking at in mine? I have new >injectors and plenty of compression. My boost tops out at 10 psi going >70 up a hill and runs at about 5 cruising on the flats. I use no oil >and coast like the bearings are good. > >What should I be trying to tweak? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 12:58:46 -0700 From: "Paul Schwartz" Subject: Re: Looking for a car Yup, There are a lot of 123 D-Benzs around here, but people don't sell them often. No rust is generally the rule. I was looking at a 123 300D that showed well, but had engine problems--rod bearing. I had the own under a thousand, but for the amount of work I really didn't feel like paying more than 500 for it. Of course, after I was through with it, it would have a rebuilt engine. Paul > On Thu, Jun 05, 2003 at 02:41:08PM -0400, J.B. Hebert wrote: > > I'm certainly not afraid to drive a bit, but of course all the good cars > > I'm seeing are in CA, and I just don't have the time for a cross-country > > jaunt anytime soon. Even though it would be cool. > > I hear that. And here I live in california and drove home one from washington > that needs some (minor) rust repair. Something seems backwards about this :) > > There are a few of us in california and I'm sure at least one of us would be > willing to help out on this end as long as you promised to give it a good home > . It costs roughly $800 to ship a car from coast to coast, and you can > usually get a break if you drop it off at the warehouse and pick it up from > there (to avoid residential delivery charges). > > K > > -- > Kevin Pekarek > Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and > Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) > 85 190D (2.2, 5spd) ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1056 **********************************