From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #1070 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, June 17 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1070 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: The new toy (some questions) Re: Diesel VWs Re: The new toy (some questions) Re: The new toy (some questions) Re: The new toy (some questions) Re: The new toy (some questions) Re: The new toy (some questions) Re: The new toy (some questions) Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:19:39 -0400 From: "J.B. Hebert" Subject: The new toy (some questions) OK, so despite the fact that I told myself I did not need another project, I ended up with one. The guy who owns '83 300CD that I'm interested in doesn't have time to put in the starter, so I told him I'd give him $1000 for it as is. He accepted. So now I have a surprising clean 300CD that needs a starter and probably some other things. I have a couple questions that I need answered so I can get the car home and get it running: 1) I'm planning on towing it back to my garage on a dolly so I can work on it in comfort. Should I disconnect the driveshaft at the diff to keep the tranny from turning, or can I just put it in N and it will be fine? Most autos I've towed require that the driveshaft be dropped or the tranny will cook, but I've heard that the MB tranny has the pump on the rear and will lubricate itself while being towed. 2) Do I need to remove the turbo downpipe and/or manifold to get the starter replaced? I don't see any other way to get it out. 3) Most importantly, what steps should I take when starting an engine that has sat for a while? I'm planning on draining the tank, replacing the fuel and air filters, and probably pulling the glow plugs and injectors. I'll probably do a valve adjustment and get the cam coated with Marvel Mystery Oil. I'll then put some Marvel Mystery Oil in each cylinder and turn it over several times by hand to make sure everything is free. Then I figured I'd crank it with the starter to get oil flowing. Finally, I'd put the injectors and glow plugs back in and see if it'll start. Any additions or changes you'd make to this? Thanks in advance. J.B. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:55:24 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: Diesel VWs Why not pick up that econoline that Michael has and make a conversion out of it? I'm hoping he still has it in the next few weeks. I'm planning on taking a good look at it. Jim/ '83 240D ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:49:03 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: The new toy (some questions) On Tue, Jun 17, 2003 at 03:19:39PM -0400, J.B. Hebert wrote: > 1) I'm planning on towing it back to my garage on a dolly so I can work on > it in comfort. Should I disconnect the driveshaft at the diff to keep the > tranny from turning, or can I just put it in N and it will be fine? Most > autos I've towed require that the driveshaft be dropped or the tranny will > cook, but I've heard that the MB tranny has the pump on the rear and will > lubricate itself while being towed. There are two ways of accomplishing what you want to do. I wouldn't leave the rear axle down while connected to the transmission. Even though the rear pump exists, I don't know how well it would hold up for extended use. And those trannies can be expensive. Dropping a driveshaft on a mercedes is fairly simple, even moreso than an american car because you don't have to deal with the u-joint coming apart. That failing, if it has a tight steering box/rack, tow it with the rear on the trailer and the front down, then run some >3/8" rope from the steering wheel around one of the supports, then slam it in the door to hold the steering wheel from moving too much, then go slow. I've been around plenty of tow truck operators that do this with rear wheel drive vehicles. If you are going a long distance, just pull the driveshaft. > 2) Do I need to remove the turbo downpipe and/or manifold to get the > starter replaced? I don't see any other way to get it out. Unfortunately, I don't know. I'd find it hard to believe that that is the case, but I really don't know. > 3) Most importantly, what steps should I take when starting an engine that > has sat for a while? I'm planning on draining the tank, replacing the fuel > and air filters, and probably pulling the glow plugs and injectors. I'll > probably do a valve adjustment and get the cam coated with Marvel Mystery > Oil. I'll then put some Marvel Mystery Oil in each cylinder and turn it > over several times by hand to make sure everything is free. Then I figured > I'd crank it with the starter to get oil flowing. Finally, I'd put the > injectors and glow plugs back in and see if it'll start. Any additions or > changes you'd make to this? How long has it been sitting? Definately drain the fuel tank and replace the fuel filter. Air filter should be inspected before replacing, it may be fine. Pull the injectors and pour some marvel mystery oil down each of the cylinders if it has been sitting more than a few weeks, crank the engine over by hand, then pour a little more marvel mystery oil down. Pop the valve cover and spray some marvel mystery oil on the cam and valve assembly. (you can adjust the valves while you are in here if you want to). If it has been sitting for more than a couple of months, you probably don't want to light it off with all the old oil in it, so you may consider draining the oil and putting some fresh oil in it. That failing, you may consider draining out a quart and putting some marvel mystery oil or some lighter oil into the engine. It doesn't matter that you shouldn't mix it, cause you're changing the oil soon anyways. Since you coated the engine with mystery oil and poured more in after cranking it some, the engine will survive startup until pressure builds up. If the oil pressure doesn't come up very fast, you've got bigger problems than a little wear. Don't be too alarmed when you light it off if it smokes, all that marvel mystery oil will smoke. Good luck... haven't resurrected a benz diesel before. couple 6.2s tho. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (2.2, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:53:46 -0700 From: "Paul Schwartz" Subject: Re: The new toy (some questions) > 1) I'm planning on towing it back to my garage on a dolly so I can work on > it in comfort. Should I disconnect the driveshaft at the diff to keep the > tranny from turning, or can I just put it in N and it will be fine? Most > autos I've towed require that the driveshaft be dropped or the tranny will > cook, but I've heard that the MB tranny has the pump on the rear and will > lubricate itself while being towed. I believe the MBZ auto trans. has a rear pump as well as a front pump. If so, towing short distances shouldn't be a problem. Make sure it has fluid in it! > 3) Most importantly, what steps should I take when starting an engine that > has sat for a while? I'm planning on draining the tank, replacing the fuel > and air filters, and probably pulling the glow plugs and injectors. I'll > probably do a valve adjustment and get the cam coated with Marvel Mystery > Oil. I'll then put some Marvel Mystery Oil in each cylinder and turn it > over several times by hand to make sure everything is free. Then I figured > I'd crank it with the starter to get oil flowing. Finally, I'd put the > injectors and glow plugs back in and see if it'll start. Any additions or > changes you'd make to this? I'd do the fuel filters, and would clean the screen in the tank. There might be all kind of crap growing in the fuel tank; if you really like this car and it's been sitting for a while, you might pull the fuel tank and clean it. Kent B. believes that stuff called Diesel Purge is good stuff, but I've never tried it. (Anyone may chime in here.) At a minimum, I'd make sure the fuel has a heavy load of a lubricity additive. If you put Marvel Mystery Oil in the cylinders then make sure you give it enough time to seep through the prechamber in to the cylinder, probably about 15-30 minutes--frankly, I'd thin it with some regular motor oil, about 50-50, or just use 30W oil. Then crank the engine, first by hand and then with the starter, with the glow plugs and injectors out to remove the excess oil. You don't want create a hydraulic lock in the cylinders. A BMW motorcycle mechanic I used to know always used 2-stroke oil in the cylinders of old engines. His theory was that 2-stroke oil is designed to burn off with out leaving any deposits. I don't know if that makes a difference in a diesel motor. Good luck! Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:57:44 -0400 From: Andrew_Strasfogel-at-blm.gov Subject: Re: The new toy (some questions) Suggest you consult the owner's manual as there is usualy a section dedicated to towing the vehicle! Kevin Pekarek nk.net> cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sent by: Subject: Re: The new toy (some questions) owner-diesel-benz -at-digest.net 06/17/03 03:49 PM On Tue, Jun 17, 2003 at 03:19:39PM -0400, J.B. Hebert wrote: > 1) I'm planning on towing it back to my garage on a dolly so I can work on > it in comfort. Should I disconnect the driveshaft at the diff to keep the > tranny from turning, or can I just put it in N and it will be fine? Most > autos I've towed require that the driveshaft be dropped or the tranny will > cook, but I've heard that the MB tranny has the pump on the rear and will > lubricate itself while being towed. There are two ways of accomplishing what you want to do. I wouldn't leave the rear axle down while connected to the transmission. Even though the rear pump exists, I don't know how well it would hold up for extended use. And those trannies can be expensive. Dropping a driveshaft on a mercedes is fairly simple, even moreso than an american car because you don't have to deal with the u-joint coming apart. That failing, if it has a tight steering box/rack, tow it with the rear on the trailer and the front down, then run some >3/8" rope from the steering wheel around one of the supports, then slam it in the door to hold the steering wheel from moving too much, then go slow. I've been around plenty of tow truck operators that do this with rear wheel drive vehicles. If you are going a long distance, just pull the driveshaft. > 2) Do I need to remove the turbo downpipe and/or manifold to get the > starter replaced? I don't see any other way to get it out. Unfortunately, I don't know. I'd find it hard to believe that that is the case, but I really don't know. > 3) Most importantly, what steps should I take when starting an engine that > has sat for a while? I'm planning on draining the tank, replacing the fuel > and air filters, and probably pulling the glow plugs and injectors. I'll > probably do a valve adjustment and get the cam coated with Marvel Mystery > Oil. I'll then put some Marvel Mystery Oil in each cylinder and turn it > over several times by hand to make sure everything is free. Then I figured > I'd crank it with the starter to get oil flowing. Finally, I'd put the > injectors and glow plugs back in and see if it'll start. Any additions or > changes you'd make to this? How long has it been sitting? Definately drain the fuel tank and replace the fuel filter. Air filter should be inspected before replacing, it may be fine. Pull the injectors and pour some marvel mystery oil down each of the cylinders if it has been sitting more than a few weeks, crank the engine over by hand, then pour a little more marvel mystery oil down. Pop the valve cover and spray some marvel mystery oil on the cam and valve assembly. (you can adjust the valves while you are in here if you want to). If it has been sitting for more than a couple of months, you probably don't want to light it off with all the old oil in it, so you may consider draining the oil and putting some fresh oil in it. That failing, you may consider draining out a quart and putting some marvel mystery oil or some lighter oil into the engine. It doesn't matter that you shouldn't mix it, cause you're changing the oil soon anyways. Since you coated the engine with mystery oil and poured more in after cranking it some, the engine will survive startup until pressure builds up. If the oil pressure doesn't come up very fast, you've got bigger problems than a little wear. Don't be too alarmed when you light it off if it smokes, all that marvel mystery oil will smoke. Good luck... haven't resurrected a benz diesel before. couple 6.2s tho. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (2.2, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:59:44 -0700 From: "Paul Schwartz" Subject: Re: The new toy (some questions) > If you are going a long distance, just pull the driveshaft. Kevin has a point and you can use this as an opportunity to replace the flex disks and alignment bushings--which, no doubt, need replacing anyway. %^) Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:01:38 -0400 From: "J.B. Hebert" Subject: Re: The new toy (some questions) At 12:49 PM 6/17/2003 -0700, you wrote: >On Tue, Jun 17, 2003 at 03:19:39PM -0400, J.B. Hebert wrote: > > 1) I'm planning on towing it back to my garage on a dolly so I can > work on > > it in comfort. Should I disconnect the driveshaft at the diff to keep the > > tranny from turning, or can I just put it in N and it will be fine? Most > > autos I've towed require that the driveshaft be dropped or the tranny will > > cook, but I've heard that the MB tranny has the pump on the rear and will > > lubricate itself while being towed. > >There are two ways of accomplishing what you want to do. I wouldn't leave the >rear axle down while connected to the transmission. Even though the rear pump >exists, I don't know how well it would hold up for extended use. And those >trannies can be expensive. > >Dropping a driveshaft on a mercedes is fairly simple, even moreso than an >american car because you don't have to deal with the u-joint coming apart. >That >failing, if it has a tight steering box/rack, tow it with the rear on the >trailer and the front down, then run some >3/8" rope from the steering wheel >around one of the supports, then slam it in the door to hold the steering >wheel >from moving too much, then go slow. I've been around plenty of tow truck >operators that do this with rear wheel drive vehicles. > >If you are going a long distance, just pull the driveshaft. It'll be going about 200 miles, so I'll probably just pull the driveshaft. > > 2) Do I need to remove the turbo downpipe and/or manifold to get the > > starter replaced? I don't see any other way to get it out. > >Unfortunately, I don't know. I'd find it hard to believe that that is the >case, >but I really don't know. I fear it is the case. I see no way for that huge starter to get out without doing so. > > 3) Most importantly, what steps should I take when starting an engine > that > > has sat for a while? I'm planning on draining the tank, replacing the > fuel > > and air filters, and probably pulling the glow plugs and injectors. I'll > > probably do a valve adjustment and get the cam coated with Marvel Mystery > > Oil. I'll then put some Marvel Mystery Oil in each cylinder and turn it > > over several times by hand to make sure everything is free. Then I > figured > > I'd crank it with the starter to get oil flowing. Finally, I'd put the > > injectors and glow plugs back in and see if it'll start. Any additions or > > changes you'd make to this? > >How long has it been sitting? Definately drain the fuel tank and replace the >fuel filter. Air filter should be inspected before replacing, it may be fine. >Pull the injectors and pour some marvel mystery oil down each of the cylinders >if it has been sitting more than a few weeks, crank the engine over by hand, >then pour a little more marvel mystery oil down. Pop the valve cover and >spray some marvel mystery oil on the cam and valve assembly. (you can adjust >the valves while you are in here if you want to). > >If it has been sitting for more than a couple of months, you probably don't >want to light it off with all the old oil in it, so you may consider draining >the oil and putting some fresh oil in it. That failing, you may consider >draining out a quart and putting some marvel mystery oil or some lighter oil >into the engine. It doesn't matter that you shouldn't mix it, cause you're >changing the oil soon anyways. > >Since you coated the engine with mystery oil and poured more in after cranking >it some, the engine will survive startup until pressure builds up. If the >oil pressure doesn't come up very fast, you've got bigger problems than a >little wear. Don't be too alarmed when you light it off if it smokes, all that >marvel mystery oil will smoke. It's been sitting at least a few months, so all the fluids will be changed. This sounds pretty much like what I was planning on doing. We'll see what happens. Thanks, J.B. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:03:42 -0400 From: "J.B. Hebert" Subject: Re: The new toy (some questions) At 12:53 PM 6/17/2003 -0700, you wrote: > > 1) I'm planning on towing it back to my garage on a dolly so I can work >on > > it in comfort. Should I disconnect the driveshaft at the diff to keep the > > tranny from turning, or can I just put it in N and it will be fine? Most > > autos I've towed require that the driveshaft be dropped or the tranny will > > cook, but I've heard that the MB tranny has the pump on the rear and will > > lubricate itself while being towed. > >I believe the MBZ auto trans. has a rear pump as well as a front pump. If >so, towing short distances shouldn't be a problem. Make sure it has fluid >in it! It'll be going about 200 miles, so I think I'll just drop the shaft. > > 3) Most importantly, what steps should I take when starting an engine >that > > has sat for a while? I'm planning on draining the tank, replacing the >fuel > > and air filters, and probably pulling the glow plugs and injectors. I'll > > probably do a valve adjustment and get the cam coated with Marvel Mystery > > Oil. I'll then put some Marvel Mystery Oil in each cylinder and turn it > > over several times by hand to make sure everything is free. Then I >figured > > I'd crank it with the starter to get oil flowing. Finally, I'd put the > > injectors and glow plugs back in and see if it'll start. Any additions or > > changes you'd make to this? > >I'd do the fuel filters, and would clean the screen in the tank. There >might be all kind of crap growing in the fuel tank; if you really like this >car and it's been sitting for a while, you might pull the fuel tank and >clean it. Sounds like a good idea. >Kent B. believes that stuff called Diesel Purge is good stuff, but I've >never tried it. (Anyone may chime in here.) At a minimum, I'd make sure the >fuel has a heavy load of a lubricity additive. I've read about the Diesel Purge. I have had good luck with the Lubro Moly products, so I'll likely give it a try after the car is running again. >If you put Marvel Mystery Oil in the cylinders then make sure you give it >enough time to seep through the prechamber in to the cylinder, probably >about 15-30 minutes--frankly, I'd thin it with some regular motor oil, about >50-50, or just use 30W oil. Then crank the engine, first by hand and then >with the starter, with the glow plugs and injectors out to remove the excess >oil. You don't want create a hydraulic lock in the cylinders. I'll probably let it sit overnight, and then crank it without the injectors or glow plugs to remove any excess. >A BMW motorcycle mechanic I used to know always used 2-stroke oil in the >cylinders of old engines. His theory was that 2-stroke oil is designed to >burn off with out leaving any deposits. I don't know if that makes a >difference in a diesel motor. Interesting idea. I'll have to look into it. Thanks, J.B. ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1070 **********************************