From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #1089 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Monday, June 30 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1089 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: Radios to fit W123? Re: Radios to fit W123? parking brake cable question RE: Mercedes with Cabin Air filters? Re: Radios to fit W123? Re: Mercedes with Cabin Air filters? RE: Mercedes Benzes and Dodge Cummins diesels RE: Radios to fit W123? Re: darned I learn allot, wasRE: theoretical question :) Re: Radios to fit W123? Re: darned I learn allot, wasRE: theoretical question :) Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 17:03:06 +1000 From: Guy Carpenter Subject: Re: Radios to fit W123? > I just wired around it Yeah, well that *was* the plan! Where did you pick up the front speaker wires? It had not occurred to me that the wires I picked up running forward from the dash towards each speaker would be anything but direct lines to the speakers. It was quite a surprise some days later when someone flipped the fader wheel and the volume changed :-) The fader must be wired in somewhere forward of the last point I was able to trace the wires to. For better or for worse that is one problem I cannot fix now, since the car is no longer mine. Cheers, Guy. At 09:03 PM 29/06/2003 -0700, Jerome Kaidor wrote: >Guy Carpenter wrote: > > > > Looked like this when complete: > > http://www.clearwater.com.au/gallery/merc300d/merc0005.jpg > > > > I did encounter a problem with the console fader; I located > > the wires that *appeared* to come directly from the front > > speakers, replaced the connectors, and wired it to the Kenwood > > head. However the fader was still apparently wired into the front > > speakers ahead of my connection because it still controlled > > the front speakers. I never did figure out the audio wiring to that > > fader. > > >*** I just wired around it. The fader is an abortion anyway - it throws >away hard-earned audio power, converting it into heat. Fading is far >better done with the low-level controls built into the radio. Because the >modern radios actually have four audio amps built into them. If you use >the fader, you are running all four speakers off the two front amps. So >not only are you converting power into heat, you are also throwing away >half the power that the radio can produce. > > The best thing to do is to identify the wires that come from the rear >speakers, and patch them directly up to the radio's rear speaker outputs. >Don't ground any speaker wires, please - wire each speaker and its return >directly to the appropriate terminals on the radio. Modern high-power >radios don't have a "common ground" as far as the speakers are concerned. > > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 03:37:03 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: Radios to fit W123? Im gonna be dealing with the same stuff myself soon. My master plan is to only use the power out of the original factory harness and to run my own coaxial speaker wires to the speakers. That will leave the factory harness essentially untouched if I want to "go back" to original speakers. As well 20 year old wiring really cant sound all that great. Hopefully I can get the stereo installed without my audio friend knowing about any of the install. He is a dealer of high end wiring that costs a small fortune. I can't see the benefit of it in a car especially a noisy diesel. Does anybody know of any relatively high quality speakers that will fit under the original grilles? Did the w126 ever get a Bose audio system or was that a w140 thing? Robert. Guy Carpenter wrote: > > I just wired around it > > Yeah, well that *was* the plan! > Where did you pick up the front speaker wires? > It had not occurred to me that the wires I picked up running > forward from the dash towards each speaker would be anything but > direct lines to the > speakers. It was quite a surprise some days later when someone flipped > the fader wheel and the volume changed :-) The fader must be wired in > somewhere > forward of the last point I was able to trace the wires to. > > For better or for worse that is one problem > I cannot fix now, since the car is no longer mine. > > Cheers, > Guy. > > > At 09:03 PM 29/06/2003 -0700, Jerome Kaidor wrote: > >> Guy Carpenter wrote: >> > >> > Looked like this when complete: >> > http://www.clearwater.com.au/gallery/merc300d/merc0005.jpg >> > >> > I did encounter a problem with the console fader; I located >> > the wires that *appeared* to come directly from the front >> > speakers, replaced the connectors, and wired it to the Kenwood >> > head. However the fader was still apparently wired into the front >> > speakers ahead of my connection because it still controlled >> > the front speakers. I never did figure out the audio wiring to that >> > fader. >> > >> *** I just wired around it. The fader is an abortion anyway - it throws >> away hard-earned audio power, converting it into heat. Fading is far >> better done with the low-level controls built into the radio. >> Because the >> modern radios actually have four audio amps built into them. If you use >> the fader, you are running all four speakers off the two front amps. So >> not only are you converting power into heat, you are also throwing away >> half the power that the radio can produce. >> >> The best thing to do is to identify the wires that come from the rear >> speakers, and patch them directly up to the radio's rear speaker >> outputs. >> Don't ground any speaker wires, please - wire each speaker and its >> return >> directly to the appropriate terminals on the radio. Modern high-power >> radios don't have a "common ground" as far as the speakers are >> concerned. >> >> - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 06:55:55 -0400 From: Paul Brown Subject: parking brake cable question What is the procedure for replacing the front parking brake cable on the 240D? My W123 CD doesn't cover it. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 08:40:53 -0700 From: REisenhardt-at-AlienTechnology.com Subject: RE: Mercedes with Cabin Air filters? Jerome Consider using one of the filters for an organic vapor/acid mask, commonly used in industry (mine included) to insure operator safety when handling chemicals. I quickly found a reference in McMaster Carr, item 55865T35 (among others). Form factor is small and might suit your needs. Regards, Randy '87 300 SDL 298k miles - -----Original Message----- From: Jerome Kaidor [mailto:jerry-at-tr2.com] Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2003 7:20 AM To: eurowerks-at-qx.net Cc: kevin-at-mordred.punk.net; diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: Mercedes with Cabin Air filters? Eurowerks wrote: > > No problem. I did it in my 82 300 TDT. A little creativity and some filter > material (preferably charcoal impregnated to remove those nasty odors) is > all that is required. I know how many attempts it took me to get it right, > I wonder how many it will take you? *** Probably more. I do have the tools & materials to work aircraft aluminum, which is probably ideal for fabricating air manifolds & housings. I don't know if a pleated filter with a casual dusting of charcoal is adequate to remove the stuff I'm talking about ( ozone ). I was thinking more of a pleated paper filter backed by a bed of carbon, kind of like what you see in gas masks for painting cars. The kind where you can lean over a bucket of lacquer thinner, take a deep breath, and smell NOTHING. I suspect that there might not be enough space under the panel for the kind of filter I'm talking about, in which case I would have to locate it somewhere else. Like maybe under the passenger seat with a long flat duct on the floor. Probably too much work though. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 08:41:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: Radios to fit W123? Guy Carpenter wrote: > > > I just wired around it > > Yeah, well that *was* the plan! > Where did you pick up the front speaker wires? *** As I remember, ALL the wires are available at the fader. You just do whatever's necessary to lift that particular panel - I think it's the whole panel surrounding the gearshift - and identify speaker wires by "ticking" them with a "D" cell. Actually, I think they're even marked. And each speaker pair has a unique little two-pin barrel connector. Then, it's a piece of cake to feed the wires past the gearshift up into the radio console. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 08:57:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: Mercedes with Cabin Air filters? REisenhardt-at-AlienTechnology.com wrote: > > Jerome > Consider using one of the filters for an organic vapor/acid mask, commonly > used in industry (mine included) to insure operator safety when handling > chemicals. I quickly found a reference in McMaster Carr, item 55865T35 > (among others). Form factor is small and might suit your needs. > *** I'd probably have to use several of them in parallel to get enough flow for the cabin without changing them every trip. Still, it's a good idea - for "bang for the buck" one should always try for the mass market item. Are they activated carbon filters? The chemical I'm interested in is ozone ( O3 ), and AFAIK, nothing but activated carbon will touch it - they're pretty small molecules. As I understand it, the only reason even activated carbon even works is that the O3 spends itself by oxidizing it. - Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:14:20 -0500 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: Mercedes Benzes and Dodge Cummins diesels > Now I again have the means to tow our fleet of 240D MERCEDES BENZES around > the yard. > > VT > That was an awful long way to go to reach the Mercedes content. ;-) My father in law had a couple of Cummins powered Dodge pick-em-ups, both 3/4 ton. On was from I think the second year the motor was available, so it was in the older body. They later got one in the newer body. Both were automatics. The newer one had more power and different gearing, but he preferred the ride and driving characteristics of the older one. Alec ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:18:53 -0500 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: Radios to fit W123? > Guy Carpenter wrote: > > > > > I just wired around it > > > > Yeah, well that *was* the plan! > > Where did you pick up the front speaker wires? > *** As I remember, ALL the wires are available at the fader. You just > do whatever's necessary to lift that particular panel - I think it's the > whole panel surrounding the gearshift - and identify speaker wires by > "ticking" them with a "D" cell. Actually, I think they're even marked. > And each speaker pair has a unique little two-pin barrel connector. > > Then, it's a piece of cake to feed the wires past the gearshift up into > the radio console. > > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) D'oh! That makes perfect sense. I'm also considering new tunes for my coupe. That should be the easiest place to find all the speaker wires. By the way, my understanding is that Crutchfield offers adapters to connect new systems to the original harnesses, although I've also heard that they may not be fully up to speed on older Benzes. Alec ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:45:35 -0700 (PDT) From: hue wong Subject: Re: darned I learn allot, wasRE: theoretical question :) Ya, I sure was interested in it, unfortunatly I need a turn key car, something I can just jump into and drive like there is no tomorrow. SUPPOSEDLY I will be getting my 280sel back from the shop here soon. It's a mess. Had some simple work done about 2 months ago, picked it up a month ago, got like four miles down the road and the fan hit the radiator and shatered and took out most of the front of the engine. Got it back to the shop and they started giving me a song and dance about broken motor mounts and more costly repairs. (After they had just done work on the fan and radiator) Since, I can't prove that my motor mounts were good. I am kinda at thier mercy, but I had never had that kind of problem in the 100k I had put on the car. It's not been fun. A 300.00, three day fix has turned into $2500.00, two month fix and I'm still not sure the car runs right, or frankly will ever again. So I'm kinda on the look out for a good 80's era 240d or 300td, Or maybe the right 190) that I can pretty much, jump in and drive away in. I thought I had a nice 240d lined up, but the motor had just been rebuilt and when I test drove it, I REALLY got the feeling that it wasn't a good rebuild job. So onward and upward, the search continues... - --- john wrote: > > yeah, it's nice having you guys out there to bounce > stuff off > of... I haven't called to confirm my purchase of the > '87 300D > yet... I should, but I told the guy Monday and I'm > not too worried > about anyone else buying it the way it is. :) > > I'm working up my list of for sale vehicles right > now... hey, hue, > weren't you interested in my 300CD? low reserve... > last check > the bid was up to a whopping $355! ;) my 190D is > going too... it's > a nice car, but the 300D is nicer. :) > > gotta run, still have a test to grade... > john > > At 08:22 PM 6/29/2003 -0700, hue wong wrote: > >I sure do learn allot but ghoasting on on these > >threads and just reading them. > >thanx everyone. In the last few months my MB > >knowledge has increased ten fold! > > > > > >--- Alec Cordova wrote: > > > Some replies may have been working from your > final > > > multiple choice of just 3 > > > or 4. Of those 2, I'd also pick 3. > > > > > > From the whole list, let's see > > > > > > > 1) 1985 300D (turbo) light yellow 208k for > about > > > $4500 > > > for this price, it should be in good shape. A/C > can > > > be dealt with, I'm > > > talking about suspension rubber. If that's > already > > > been mostly replaced, > > > this one ranks high on my list. > > > > > > > 2)1991 300d (2.5l td) white/gray 270k for > about > > > $9990 > > > Even on a diesel Benz, that's an awful lot of > miles > > > for 10K. Maybe if some > > > major pieces have been replaced properly... > > > > > > > 3) 1987 300d (3.0L td) silver (blue int) 280k > for > > > $3950 > > > Nice prospect, but probably needs lots of > tinkering > > > with that many miles. I > > > also second the concerns about the blue dash. > They > > > have a higher propensity > > > for developing cracks. Climate control in this > will > > > be very, very similar to > > > numbers 1 and 7. > > > > > > > 4) 1985 190D (2.2L) light yellow 220k - paid > for > > > No turbo, no big motor, no stick, no space, but > paid > > > for and running. > > > > > > > 5) 1980 300d (3.0L) light yellow 277k - on > ebay > > > (needs some TLC) > > > No turbo. You already know this combination, and > you > > > don't particularly like > > > it. Neither do I. > > > > > > > 6)1995 E300 (td) unkn color - unknn mileage > forgot > > > the # at work - $15k > > > Probably outside the budget. Not sure if 95 > diesels > > > had the engine wiring > > > harness disintegration problems of the M104 gas > > > motor family, but I'm now > > > very afraid of any 94 to 96 Benz. > > > > > > > 7) 1984 300D (3.0L td) needs timing chain and > > > "some work" - $350 > > > And the seats are shot, the paint is in bad > shape, > > > the interior is abused, > > > you KNOW the A/C is dead, etc., etc., etc. > > > > > > > > > I personally would look real close at number > one. > > > The price looks a little > > > high to me. If the condition justifies that > price, > > > this one could be really > > > nice. Number 3 is newer, 124, 6 cylinder, and > it's > > > priced lower. It's > > > probably not in beautiful shape, although it's > > > definitely worth a look. > > > Number 2 is probably more computerized than > number > > > 3, affecting how much > > > work you can do on the car at home. > > > > > > If 123 bodies have been vetoed, you're probably > > > better off right now > > > sticking with your current ride and shopping > around > > > a little longer for a > > > better diesel 124. 1987 was possibly the only > year > > > for the 6 cylinder diesel > > > in the 124, so the market is not flooded with > them, > > > but I think a good > > > example of that car could be a very nice fit for > > > most of your (and your > > > mate's) stated needs. > > > > > > By the way, I'm pretty sure 87 300E had > headlight > > > wipers. They may have > > > omitted them on the 2.6 motor version, and I'm > not > > > sure if the diesels had > > > them or not. If they weren't standard on the > diesel, > > > they may have been > > > optional. > > > > > > Alec > > > > > >__________________________________ > >Do you Yahoo!? > >SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > >http://sbc.yahoo.com > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they > mold... > Jesus, don't leave life without him, > please! > - ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 12:49:21 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: Radios to fit W123? Alec, Crutchfield has the harness for my SD. I would suggest the harness because it makes things MUCH easier. On top of that your coupe might have some resale value to someone like myself. Have you seen the current model Becker Mexico? Its at www.becker.de but I cant get the site to load right this second. Robert. >>> > I just wired around it >>> >>>Yeah, well that *was* the plan! >>>Where did you pick up the front speaker wires? >>> >>> >>*** As I remember, ALL the wires are available at the fader. You just >>do whatever's necessary to lift that particular panel - I think it's the >>whole panel surrounding the gearshift - and identify speaker wires by >>"ticking" them with a "D" cell. Actually, I think they're even marked. >>And each speaker pair has a unique little two-pin barrel connector. >> >> Then, it's a piece of cake to feed the wires past the gearshift up into >>the radio console. >> >> - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) >> >> > >D'oh! That makes perfect sense. I'm also considering new tunes for my coupe. >That should be the easiest place to find all the speaker wires. > >By the way, my understanding is that Crutchfield offers adapters to connect >new systems to the original harnesses, although I've also heard that they >may not be fully up to speed on older Benzes. > >Alec ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:26:07 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: darned I learn allot, wasRE: theoretical question :) the 300CD is a driver, was driven daily, other then a few minor issues I can't see any reason why you can't drive it right now. my 190D is nearing 100%. Have the a/c compressor and fan clutch thing... just needs to be installed and it's 99% (outside temp sensor doesn't work) john On Mon, 30 Jun 2003, hue wong wrote: >-->Ya, I sure was interested in it, unfortunatly I need a >-->turn key car, something I can just jump into and drive >-->like there is no tomorrow. SUPPOSEDLY I will be >-->getting my 280sel back from the shop here soon. It's >-->a mess. Had some simple work done about 2 months ago, >-->picked it up a month ago, got like four miles down the >-->road and the fan hit the radiator and shatered and >-->took out most of the front of the engine. >--> >-->Got it back to the shop and they started giving me a >-->song and dance about broken motor mounts and more >-->costly repairs. (After they had just done work on the >-->fan and radiator) Since, I can't prove that my motor >-->mounts were good. I am kinda at thier mercy, but I had >-->never had that kind of problem in the 100k I had put >-->on the car. It's not been fun. A 300.00, three day >-->fix has turned into $2500.00, two month fix and I'm >-->still not sure the car runs right, or frankly will >-->ever again. >--> >-->So I'm kinda on the look out for a good 80's era 240d >-->or 300td, Or maybe the right 190) that I can pretty >-->much, jump in and drive away in. I thought I had a >-->nice 240d lined up, but the motor had just been >-->rebuilt and when I test drove it, I REALLY got the >-->feeling that it wasn't a good rebuild job. So onward >-->and upward, the search continues... >--> >--> >--> >-->--- john wrote: >-->> >-->> yeah, it's nice having you guys out there to bounce >-->> stuff off >-->> of... I haven't called to confirm my purchase of the >-->> '87 300D >-->> yet... I should, but I told the guy Monday and I'm >-->> not too worried >-->> about anyone else buying it the way it is. :) >-->> >-->> I'm working up my list of for sale vehicles right >-->> now... hey, hue, >-->> weren't you interested in my 300CD? low reserve... >-->> last check >-->> the bid was up to a whopping $355! ;) my 190D is >-->> going too... it's >-->> a nice car, but the 300D is nicer. :) >-->> >-->> gotta run, still have a test to grade... >-->> john >-->> >-->> At 08:22 PM 6/29/2003 -0700, hue wong wrote: >-->> >I sure do learn allot but ghoasting on on these >-->> >threads and just reading them. >-->> >thanx everyone. In the last few months my MB >-->> >knowledge has increased ten fold! >-->> > >-->> > >-->> >--- Alec Cordova wrote: >-->> > > Some replies may have been working from your >-->> final >-->> > > multiple choice of just 3 >-->> > > or 4. Of those 2, I'd also pick 3. >-->> > > >-->> > > From the whole list, let's see >-->> > > >-->> > > > 1) 1985 300D (turbo) light yellow 208k for >-->> about >-->> > > $4500 >-->> > > for this price, it should be in good shape. A/C >-->> can >-->> > > be dealt with, I'm >-->> > > talking about suspension rubber. If that's >-->> already >-->> > > been mostly replaced, >-->> > > this one ranks high on my list. >-->> > > >-->> > > > 2)1991 300d (2.5l td) white/gray 270k for >-->> about >-->> > > $9990 >-->> > > Even on a diesel Benz, that's an awful lot of >-->> miles >-->> > > for 10K. Maybe if some >-->> > > major pieces have been replaced properly... >-->> > > >-->> > > > 3) 1987 300d (3.0L td) silver (blue int) 280k >-->> for >-->> > > $3950 >-->> > > Nice prospect, but probably needs lots of >-->> tinkering >-->> > > with that many miles. I >-->> > > also second the concerns about the blue dash. >-->> They >-->> > > have a higher propensity >-->> > > for developing cracks. Climate control in this >-->> will >-->> > > be very, very similar to >-->> > > numbers 1 and 7. >-->> > > >-->> > > > 4) 1985 190D (2.2L) light yellow 220k - paid >-->> for >-->> > > No turbo, no big motor, no stick, no space, but >-->> paid >-->> > > for and running. >-->> > > >-->> > > > 5) 1980 300d (3.0L) light yellow 277k - on >-->> ebay >-->> > > (needs some TLC) >-->> > > No turbo. You already know this combination, and >-->> you >-->> > > don't particularly like >-->> > > it. Neither do I. >-->> > > >-->> > > > 6)1995 E300 (td) unkn color - unknn mileage >-->> forgot >-->> > > the # at work - $15k >-->> > > Probably outside the budget. Not sure if 95 >-->> diesels >-->> > > had the engine wiring >-->> > > harness disintegration problems of the M104 gas >-->> > > motor family, but I'm now >-->> > > very afraid of any 94 to 96 Benz. >-->> > > >-->> > > > 7) 1984 300D (3.0L td) needs timing chain and >-->> > > "some work" - $350 >-->> > > And the seats are shot, the paint is in bad >-->> shape, >-->> > > the interior is abused, >-->> > > you KNOW the A/C is dead, etc., etc., etc. >-->> > > >-->> > > >-->> > > I personally would look real close at number >-->> one. >-->> > > The price looks a little >-->> > > high to me. If the condition justifies that >-->> price, >-->> > > this one could be really >-->> > > nice. Number 3 is newer, 124, 6 cylinder, and >-->> it's >-->> > > priced lower. It's >-->> > > probably not in beautiful shape, although it's >-->> > > definitely worth a look. >-->> > > Number 2 is probably more computerized than >-->> number >-->> > > 3, affecting how much >-->> > > work you can do on the car at home. >-->> > > >-->> > > If 123 bodies have been vetoed, you're probably >-->> > > better off right now >-->> > > sticking with your current ride and shopping >-->> around >-->> > > a little longer for a >-->> > > better diesel 124. 1987 was possibly the only >-->> year >-->> > > for the 6 cylinder diesel >-->> > > in the 124, so the market is not flooded with >-->> them, >-->> > > but I think a good >-->> > > example of that car could be a very nice fit for >-->> > > most of your (and your >-->> > > mate's) stated needs. >-->> > > >-->> > > By the way, I'm pretty sure 87 300E had >-->> headlight >-->> > > wipers. They may have >-->> > > omitted them on the 2.6 motor version, and I'm >-->> not >-->> > > sure if the diesels had >-->> > > them or not. If they weren't standard on the >-->> diesel, >-->> > > they may have been >-->> > > optional. >-->> > > >-->> > > Alec >-->> > >-->> > >-->> >__________________________________ >-->> >Do you Yahoo!? >-->> >SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! >-->> >http://sbc.yahoo.com >-->> >-->> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------ >-->> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >-->> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they >-->> mold... >-->> Jesus, don't leave life without him, >-->> please! >-->> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> >-->> >--> >--> >-->__________________________________ >-->Do you Yahoo!? >-->SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! >-->http://sbc.yahoo.com >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1089 **********************************