From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #1093 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, July 1 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1093 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: the final test... Re: the '87 300D Turbo mileage Re: the '87 300D Turbo mileage Re: fsj: the final test... Re: the final test... Re: the '87 300D Turbo mileage Update on the "new" 300CD Re: the '87 300D Turbo mileage RE: the '87 300D Turbo mileage Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 23:16:39 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: the final test... On Mon, Jun 30, 2003 at 08:41:46PM -0700, john wrote: > well... I had the cashier's check all made out... I was ready to buy the '87 > 300D Turbo, knowing that it needed some repairs... but I figured > I'd purchased one vehicle without my wife's review and > it turned out that neither of us liked it... SOOOOOO... I said > to myself, self, if the wife doesn't like it, don't buy it... > > we get there... she looks at, so far, so good... she goes to > sit down and her seat hadn't even fully made contact and she > said no way, it's old and I ain't sitting on these hard old > seats again... I'm not kidding, nothing compressed, that's how > fast the decision was... couldn't talk her out of it either... :) HAHAHAAHAHAHAH Man, the more you mention your wife, the more disappointed I am I didn't get to meet her. When I was up there, she tore arse getting out of there in the WJ and didn't get back before I left. > But, the good news is that she's going to keep the '87 Cherokee > and we'll sell the '91, which works for me since I like the > '87 much more. Which is really strange since the '91 only > has 116,000 miles, runs great, has new tires, the best lift > on the market (old man emu), is super clean, power windows, > cruise and everything works... not sure what it is about it, > but neither of us like it... I think it's the gray interior... > we tend to prefer tan interiors... :) Very interesting. I didn't figure she'd go for the 87 chero - I thought she didn't like the brakes. > So, it looks like I'm keeping the '85 190D and the '87 Cherokee > and selling the '91 Cherokee and the '80 300CD. The '85 190D > is almost finished... did the math and I'm into it about $3,900 > at this point anyway... soon as I install the a/c pump it's > done. :) Well, I'll keep my eyes open for w124s down here, maybe we can work out a trade. my commute is long enough to justify the mileage difference between a w201 and a w124 turbo. :) > Now, for those of you citing how long you've had your car, trying > to make me feel bad ;), how many have been married for more then > 28 years? (to the same person too. ;) :) unfortunately, not many people do. I won't get off on some right-wing family values kick or anything, we can just leave it at divorce sucks, and everybody loses. > Ok, some of you aren't even that old... ;) :P who, me? > Oh well, this worked out ok... saved about $200 in autotrader ads > and get to keep the nice gold '87. :) forgive me for saying it, but you are quite attached to that 87 cherokee. Maybe after you get the J10 back you can put a 4.6L stroker in it and keep it too. :) K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 23:25:37 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: the '87 300D Turbo mileage On Tue, Jul 01, 2003 at 12:20:28AM -0400, gary wrote: > The Japanese are already there! Except, their cars are condemned at 30k. > > Either the whole car is crushed or the engines are replaced. I'm not > exactly sure which. The way I understood it is that the emissions controls in japan are SO tight that most cars don't pass emissions after the engine racks up 30-40k on them. Oddly enough, this is roughly the point where the emissions numbers take off, approaching that of a diesel. The gasser greatly surpasses the diesel within a few k of passing the intersection of the two lines. The diesel graph is essentially a y=constant line, but the gasser is ... well, not quite that flat. > That is how there are these fantastic ads for cheap low mileage Japanese > engines. This also has the interesting effect of being the "small block killer" at the drag strip. You wanna go fast? Strap nitrous on a two cammer honda or acura. LOTS of nitrous. You'll roast a 350 camaro (oh wait, that ain't hard), and if you blow the engine up, go snag a jap motor for $300-400. If you roach a 350, you're lucky to rebuild it for that. And even if you do, it's a hack job, with a bunch of tired parts staying in the engine. And since the Japanese government subsidizes research (and a bunch of other under-the-table-anti-true-capitalist garbage aimed at eliminating ALL competition), I'm not surprised that the engines make it over here for roughly the cost of shipping and handling. :-/ > There will come a day when cars are purchased with the hoods sealed > shut. They are either scrapped at the first sign of trouble, or work > only performed at an "authorized" service center. > > Hello Big Brother! Well, you definately are telling an Orwell-style slippery slope tale. All I can say is I hope it is just that. Either that, or I need to drink more victory gin and undergo more brainwashing. :) K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (2.2, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 23:28:23 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: the '87 300D Turbo mileage On Mon, Jun 30, 2003 at 10:05:48PM -0700, Paul Schwartz wrote: > > make cars more disposable than they have been in the past. Emission > > control laws that make it illegal to even sell a non passing car > > And just wait until Smog2 hits Northern California. When Smog2 went into > effect in Southern Cal 1 in 3 cars over 10 years old didn't pass and 1 in 10 > BRAND NEW cars failed; new car manufactures got a year exemption for new > cars, just long enough for the warranty on the smog system to expire. In > about two years there will be a lot of nice California cars for sale in > other states. Diesels are exempt. Yeah, I'm not looking forward to that. Fortunately, my big bad truck is a full time four wheel drive truck, and is exempt from the dyno test. It has no catalytics, so it's already a somewhat tough pass. Thankfully, I don't have to worry much with the diesel. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 06:53:03 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: the final test... At 08:24 AM 7/1/2003 -0500, Dan Black wrote: >john said: >{- she goes to >{- sit down and her seat hadn't even fully made contact and she >{- said no way, it's old and I ain't sitting on these hard old >{- seats again... I'm not kidding, nothing compressed, that's how >{- fast the decision was... couldn't talk her out of it either... :) > >C'mon, weren't you one of the ones who's done a dozen custom seat swaps >in the past? And you can't work something out for that? ;) nope, not in a benz... one does not modify a benz... they are superbly engineered. besides, it's not like a full size jeep where you can weld, duct tape and nail a sofa in to make it work. :) Jeeps are one thing, Mercedes are quite another. One doesn't even put external speakers on the rear shelf of a Benz... (although I may... ;) I've dealt with enough bondo, bailing wire, duct tape, friction tape, liquid nails (no kidding) and other creative solutions in FSJs, I'm not going to do it to a mercedes... :) now, if they were big enough I might consider it... ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 07:04:56 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: the final test... At 11:16 PM 6/30/2003 -0700, Kevin Pekarek wrote: > > we get there... she looks at, so far, so good... she goes to > > sit down and her seat hadn't even fully made contact and she > > said no way, it's old and I ain't sitting on these hard old > > seats again... I'm not kidding, nothing compressed, that's how > > fast the decision was... couldn't talk her out of it either... :) >HAHAHAAHAHAHAH it is funny... but I'm not willing to bring another rig home she won't drive... ;) >Man, the more you mention your wife, the more disappointed I am I didn't get >to meet her. When I was up there, she tore arse getting out of there in the >WJ and didn't get back before I left. she's an incredible lady, but a bit on the reserved side, and loathes car/jeep/Diesel talk... :) >Very interesting. I didn't figure she'd go for the 87 chero - I thought she >didn't like the brakes. the '91 is setup for off-road and rides rougher and steering is a bit vague, it's cleaner, but doesn't feel as nice as the '87. If I put newer seats (read clean) in the '87 and a few other things she'd probably like it more... it feels so much different then the "nicer" one, hard to explain. Not all cars (or Jeeps) are the same. :) >Well, I'll keep my eyes open for w124s down here, maybe we can work out a >trade. my commute is long enough to justify the mileage difference between >a w201 and a w124 turbo. :) That would work well, we could meet in Medford again. The 190D will be perfect by that time... I like the tan interior and I saw a beautiful smoke-silver '92 at Aurora, gave the guy my card but haven't heard from him... it had the 2.5L TD. >unfortunately, not many people do. I won't get off on some right-wing family >values kick or anything, we can just leave it at divorce sucks, and everybody >loses. absolutely... I came from a broken home... it's a promise, divorce is not an option. it's not easy, but I can't imagine it any other way. :) > > Ok, some of you aren't even that old... ;) >:P >who, me? :) > Oh well, this worked out ok... saved about $200 in autotrader ads > > and get to keep the nice gold '87. :) >forgive me for saying it, but you are quite attached to that 87 cherokee. >Maybe >after you get the J10 back you can put a 4.6L stroker in it and keep it >too. :) nah, 3.0L TD OM617 mated to that AW4... :) no one in their right mind is going to buy that '87 xj at what I value it, not going to give it away, so I'll be "stuck" with it... ;) just think, if I can make that an econ-box daily driver I can sell you my 190D. :) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 11:25:05 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: the '87 300D Turbo mileage The outrageous thing. I bet cars owned by the state are exempt. Here in georgia state/county/local cars are exempt. Police cars and public busses belching out smoke and polutants but my car better be fresh and clean otherwise its gonna get crushed. Honestly the solution is an across the board polution law for every vehicle and designed for evey vehicle at every age. Yes a 200k car is going to pollute more than a 10k car. So you gear the test for that to get major polluters repaired and make allowances for cars that are older. We have rednecks here that buy old 1960's trucks and put all sorts of performance mods on them (that my 4cyl stock Accord can still take at a light). They enrich the mixture so much you can smell them before you see them. They are all exempt because they are age waivered. They pollute SOOOO much more than some late model car that has to be crushed because it has high mileage. The problem is the law is not for fresh air. Its for tax revenue. They get the taxes on the tags and the test. They also get the taxes on the new car you have to buy from the car dealer and get the taxes from the rich car dealer and bank that financed your shiny new cardboard under the panels car. They also get the tax revenue from the people who recycle your old car that is being parted out or crushed because it did not pass the tests. Our government is all about serving its needs rather than the needs of its people. Its a shame we dont have some tea lying around to throw into an emissions station or something :). Robert Chase Paul Schwartz wrote: >>make cars more disposable than they have been in the past. Emission >>control laws that make it illegal to even sell a non passing car >> >> > >And just wait until Smog2 hits Northern California. When Smog2 went into >effect in Southern Cal 1 in 3 cars over 10 years old didn't pass and 1 in 10 >BRAND NEW cars failed; new car manufactures got a year exemption for new >cars, just long enough for the warranty on the smog system to expire. In >about two years there will be a lot of nice California cars for sale in >other states. Diesels are exempt. > >Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 11:43:33 -0400 From: "J.B. Hebert" Subject: Update on the "new" 300CD Hey, all: Figured I'd give you an update on my recent adventures. Thursday was the day I had scheduled to pick up the car. It started out less than ideal when I discovered that the DMV didn't open until 10:00. Of course, every other day of the week they open at 8:00, so I was already 2 hours behind schedule. Finally got in and got the plates by 11:00. Picked up the dolly from U-Haul and was at the car by 12:15. The outside temp indicator in the truck was showing 102 degrees. Jacked up the car and tried to remove the driveshaft at the differential. Removed the 3 bolts on the driveshaft side of the rubber, and it wouldn't budge. Removed the 3 bolts on the diff side, and it still wouldn't budge. Cursed at it for a while. By now it was 1:00. Called up my MB mechanic to see if he had any pointers. "Why don't you just tow it backwards?" he asked. "Um...." I replied. We got it on the dolly with a little shoving, cursing, and a big comealong. Strapped it down and hooked up the safety chains. Made sure that the steering column was locked. Checked tire pressure. And then we were off... I had wanted to be on the road by noon, and it was now 2:30. No way we were going to avoid rush hour traffic on 95. But at least we had A/C in the truck. The trip was long, but the car tracked great and nothing went wrong. But I'm certainly glad it's over. The car is now sitting in the garage. I spent most of Sunday undoing the work that the previous owner had done. This mainly involved extracting the loose starter motor from its confines, bench testing the new motor, and installing it. Just for grins, we tested the old motor and it was fine. Yay. Hours down the tube because of corroded cables. At least I have a spare starter motor now. Pulled the valve cover to check the cam. Everything looks like new under there. The timing chain has almost no slop, and looks like it was replaced recently. The cam shows no sign of wear. Splashed some Marvel Mystery Oil on the lobes, bearings, and chain. Ordered a new battery, and some new cables. Should be in by the end of the week. Also called Rusty and got a whole slew of parts coming my way. He really is great to work with. Updated primer pump and breather tube, new exhaust hangers, several sets of filters, new injector lines, and even the little bumpers for the fuel door. Hopefully they'll be here by the weekend and I'll get her running. Now, a couple of questions: How do I go about removing the rear trim panels below the windows? I need to repair one, and at some point I'll also need to check the rear window motors. Second, does anyone have a spare chrome plate that mounts on the rear of the door up where the window frame attaches to the door? It's a trim piece that covers a gap between the door and the door panel. I'm missing the driver's side plate. That about does it for now. I'll keep everyone posted. J.B. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 09:22:34 -0700 From: "Paul Schwartz" Subject: Re: the '87 300D Turbo mileage > Our government is all about serving its needs rather than the needs of > its people. Its a shame we dont have some tea lying around to throw > into an emissions station or something :). There was a radio talk show guy around here that suggested we all start mailing tea bags to our elected officals. Not a bad idea. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 11:34:37 -0500 From: "Black, Waylon" Subject: RE: the '87 300D Turbo mileage YOU GO, BOY!!! Actually, it is because motorists are less likely to fight back. Most pollution is created by refineries/power plants/etc. Big business with high paid attorneys that can drag it out in court. Remember the pollution credits? Older cars do pollute more - but are usually driven less(crappy gas mileage). New cars pollute FAR less. I think SAAB proved it by running a car on it's own exhaust gases. Ran a tube from the exhaust pipe to the intake. Saw in one of the Motor Trend/ Automobile/etc books. I agree - emission testing is a revenue maker. Waylon - -----Original Message----- From: Robert Chase [mailto:beostar-at-sdf.lonestar.org] Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 10:25 AM To: Paul Schwartz Cc: diesel-benz list Subject: Re: the '87 300D Turbo mileage The outrageous thing. I bet cars owned by the state are exempt. Here in georgia state/county/local cars are exempt. Police cars and public busses belching out smoke and polutants but my car better be fresh and clean otherwise its gonna get crushed. Honestly the solution is an across the board polution law for every vehicle and designed for evey vehicle at every age. Yes a 200k car is going to pollute more than a 10k car. So you gear the test for that to get major polluters repaired and make allowances for cars that are older. We have rednecks here that buy old 1960's trucks and put all sorts of performance mods on them (that my 4cyl stock Accord can still take at a light). They enrich the mixture so much you can smell them before you see them. They are all exempt because they are age waivered. They pollute SOOOO much more than some late model car that has to be crushed because it has high mileage. The problem is the law is not for fresh air. Its for tax revenue. They get the taxes on the tags and the test. They also get the taxes on the new car you have to buy from the car dealer and get the taxes from the rich car dealer and bank that financed your shiny new cardboard under the panels car. They also get the tax revenue from the people who recycle your old car that is being parted out or crushed because it did not pass the tests. Our government is all about serving its needs rather than the needs of its people. Its a shame we dont have some tea lying around to throw into an emissions station or something :). Robert Chase Paul Schwartz wrote: >>make cars more disposable than they have been in the past. Emission >>control laws that make it illegal to even sell a non passing car >> >> > >And just wait until Smog2 hits Northern California. When Smog2 went into >effect in Southern Cal 1 in 3 cars over 10 years old didn't pass and 1 in 10 >BRAND NEW cars failed; new car manufactures got a year exemption for new >cars, just long enough for the warranty on the smog system to expire. In >about two years there will be a lot of nice California cars for sale in >other states. Diesels are exempt. > >Paul ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1093 **********************************