From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #1112 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Sunday, July 20 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1112 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: rear bushings - 190D Re: rain uh, the rear bushings? Re: uh, the rear bushings? 5spd 190D Re: uh, the rear bushings? 80 300cd Volvo diesel Qs - update Re: buttercup engine pics Re: 80 300cd Saturday Shopping Re: Saturday Shopping Re: Saturday Shopping Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 21:19:33 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: rear bushings - 190D At 08:48 PM 7/19/2003 -0700, Kevin Pekarek wrote: >On Sat, Jul 19, 2003 at 08:51:43PM -0700, john wrote: > > I haven't had to tank up the 190D for over a week... I am > > liking the mileage, even though I'm only getting around 32 mpg. ;) >I'd still expect you to get better than that. Too much around town driving, >or there's still untapped potential. Derick's 85 gets him over 35. is that with an automatic? I've found that I don't always get the best mileage with a Diesel... e.g. my Rabbit Diesel PU - I got 35mpg - the guy that bought it, 45+ my '79 Olds Cutlass 5.7L Diesel - 19mpg - the new owner, 26+ :) if someone else drove this thing they'd probably see 40+ :) Of course I guess the mileage will go up with the new commute. My elevation change will be from 350 ft to sea level and maybe up to 100 feet and back to sea level until I get the last mile back up the hill to home. :) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 21:25:05 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: rain At 04:07 AM 7/20/2003 +0000, diesel-benz-digest wrote: >Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 12:00:11 -0400 >From: Paul Brown >Subject: Re: saturday adventure >Which 3 months doesn't it rain? >john wrote: > > , it rains 9 months of the year here. ;) > > john typically July, August and sometimes September. if it goes too long into September it's a drought, water rationing occurs, we start having fires on this side of the mountains and so on... the rains usually return late Sept early Oct and we'll rarely see blue skies again until July. It's not all that bad though, it's a light rain, overcast most of the time... as long as we can see the mountains we're happy. :) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 21:28:13 -0700 From: john Subject: uh, the rear bushings? man, do we get easily sidetracked on this list. :) any input on how hard it is to change the rear bushings on the 190D? Which ones do I need to replace if it's squeaking? Or should I just wait until it falls off... might be easier that way. ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 21:27:42 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: uh, the rear bushings? On Sat, Jul 19, 2003 at 09:28:13PM -0700, john wrote: > man, do we get easily sidetracked on this list. :) :) > any input on how hard it is to change the rear bushings > on the 190D? Which ones do I need to replace if it's squeaking? I dunno. I'm starting to notice some squeaks from my 190D, but they're nothing. If you want, I could let you drive the 84 eagle. Your benz will seem silent by comparison :) > Or should I just wait until it falls off... might be easier > that way. ;) Actually, I'd probably get a needle fitting on a grease gun, and inject some grease into the bushings. It probably wouldn't be a bad idea for me to follow my advice, but as evidence that I don't practice what I preach, I have this gold 84 eagle wagon..... :) K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (2.2, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 01:13:06 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: 5spd 190D Was out looking at cars today and ran into a 190D 5spd. Looked like it was in good shape. If anybody in the Atlanta Area is interested let me know and Ill point you in the right direction. Saw a 86 560SL on the same lot they were asking $12k but it was a really nice one. Silver with Black interior. Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 01:23:13 -0400 From: Michael Frank Subject: Re: uh, the rear bushings? There are a lot of bushings back there....a couple on each of the links, shock bushings, swaybar bushings, subframe mount bushings. But here's the thing: rubber doesn't squeek, even if it's old and dry. If you have a squeek, and a bushing is involved, the bushing has to be pretty much gone. Do a visual, looking for torn, missing, or severely distorted bushings. Look for loose fit in the swaybar bushings (most likely problem, I think, would be worn frame bushings on the sway bars). Use a crowbar or screwdriver to test each joint for wiggle. If it's swaybar bushings, it's pretty easy, and won't require a wheel alignment. From there it gets more involved. Mike Frank . At 12:28 AM 7/20/03, john wrote: >any input on how hard it is to change the rear bushings >on the 190D? Which ones do I need to replace if it's squeaking? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 22:51:54 -0800 From: "corey church" Subject: 80 300cd I have a few questions about buttercup 1) If the main bearings did go, would the oil pressure build up again when the car cooled? I seem to have normal pressure now 2) If the problem is with the injectors, how do I tell when I remove them if there is a problem? When I reinstall them is there any gaskets or crush washers that I need to replace? If it isn't the injectors, how do I test the pump? 3) Can I tell if the valves are good without removing the head? Thanks for the help, all my friends are impressed with the car except the pesky not running condition it is in right now. Oh, on a totally different subject, where is a good place to get weatherstripping for a 2 dr? Thanks Corey - -- corey church coreychurch-at-fastmail.fm - -- http://www.fastmail.fm - A no graphics, no pop-ups email service ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 08:57:34 -0500 From: "Black, Waylon" Subject: Volvo diesel Qs - update Was thinking about the hard-start last night, must be the GPs(series style). After charging the battery overnight, car started up after about 30 secs of cranking. Runs pretty smooth. Starts right up after warmup. Will have to pick up some new GPs. Will charge the A/C today - gotta have it here in Texas. Waylon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 07:05:31 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: buttercup engine pics At 10:47 PM 7/19/2003 -0800, corey church wrote: >Well, We had just finished the climbing and were on our way down the >backside of the mountain when it got suddenly very noisy. Not like the >tranny fell out or anything, but the maybe the muffler fell off. I threw >it in Neutral as soon as I reacted and sometime later looked at the >gauges. It didn't want to idle. that doesn't sound like a main bearing to me... whenever I've had one go it was ALWAYS under load. :) (don't ask me how many times I've experienced THAT. ;) An injector could make a bunch of noise, I've had 'em sound like a busted valve before, they'll clack and rattle like a bad piston even. The fact that it won't idle indicates to me an injector... that's GOOD NEWS really! You can get rebuilt injectors fairly reasonable. Rusty's (info on my server) can get them to you in the mail. The last ones I've purchased through the Benz dealer cost me around $50 each at my cost, Rusty has always been pretty close to jobber pricing and would be easier for you to deal with. If you have a Diesel/injector/pump shop, take the injectors off and take them and have them tested. It might only cost about $35 to have them rebuilt there. If not, get in touch with Rusty down in Atlanta. If the problem was a bad main bearing it would probably still idle ok. I noticed that the oil pressure dropped at an idle on that motor, but came up when run. That's why I suggested you do an oil change up in BC, I had no idea how long it had been since it was changed or what my friend had in it. >When I backed it off the trailer at my house, the oil pressure came up, >but it doesn't want to idle. It kind of >pounds away like something is loose or something. I haven't run it for oil pressure is good, the pounding away sounds like the injector problem, I hope and pray that's all it is. :) That motor started and ran too sweet to be having main bearing problems. The valve train should have given you grief long before the bottom end. I think I'll be safe in guessing it's an injector from what you've explained. :) >any length of time to avoid causing any more trouble until I have figured >out what it is. I am going to adjust the valves and check the stretch on >the timing chain then I guess I will remove the injectors. All the good plan. contact rusty for new parts while you're in there. even if the bottom end is bad you should be able to reuse the top end. Rusty Cullens Wholesale Parts, Inc. 1-800-741-5252 >lobes on the cam appear the same to the naked eye, and there isn't any >discoloration or anything. I'm going to ask a few questions on the >digest thing and see if I can get some opinions also. >The mercedes place I took the car to before we left abbottsford told me >that the linkages that connect the vacuum deal on the valve cover and the >ip and the transmission are way out. He said that I need to take them >off, reset them to factory lengths and start from there. Do you know >where I can get those measurements? here's what I have on the transmission adjustment: http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/Trans-ADJUSTMENT.html Since that tranny only has about 7,000 miles on it I wonder if it's been like this since rebuilt... Some mechanics just aren't very Benz saavy... Or maybe something got bumped around in the accident. You might want to check the mounts, if that engine or trans mount got separated it could very well affect the trans operation, happens with the big jeeps too. :) The guy that had the other '80 300CD up here told me about the mechanical linkage conversion the guy in Bellingham had done... I'll try to find the time to learn more about this, starting a new job tomorrow and teaching tomorrow night, it'll be a few days before I can get back to this. Maybe someone else on the list can help with it. I'll try to get the pictures of the other 80 300CD with the linkage setup on my site. I'm wondering if the mechanical conversion would work on my 190D, or if they excluded Rube Goldberg from the design. :) >Thanks for the help, >Corey Church no problem, let's get buttercup back to full health... >On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 18:24:33 -0700, "john" said: > > cam does look ok... the injectors could be the problem... > > > > but explain again what the sounds were, how they occurred and > > what it felt like. > > > > does the car start and run now? > > > > you might want to adjust the valves while you have the valve > > cover off. > > > > I'm putting the pix in > > http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/80-300CD/coreys-engine > > > > will pop a shell and move the large files over as well... > > john > > > > At 03:56 PM 7/18/2003 -0800, corey church wrote: > > >Here are the pictures, I can't see anything wrong with the cam, no > > >discoloration or flat spots. Plenty of oil, but I don't know how to see > > >if there is a problem with the valves. I would also like to check on the > > >injectors, but I don't know how to check those either. Do you have any > > >suggestions? These pictures are large so I will send them individually > > >Corey > > >Thanks for the help > > >-- > > > corey church > > > coreychurch-at-fastmail.fm - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 11:45:16 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: 80 300cd Corey, I read John's reply and think he is right. Diesels sound like they are on their deathbed if anything goes wrong in the injection system since its essentially the only other thing except the timing that makes the engine run. Diesel engines have very high compresssion and are very difficult to turn over. I think if a bearing went away you would "really" know it not just suspect it. Im assuming you have checked all the fuel filters and done a diesel purge by now in the event you got bad fuel somewhere along the way. Whenever I travel I only fuel at busy truck stops so I dont get stale diesel fuel. As well diesel #2 (the green stuff) makes the engine run sooo much better. Robert. corey church wrote: > I have a few questions about buttercup > 1) If the main bearings did go, would the oil pressure build up again > when the car cooled? I seem to have normal pressure now > > 2) If the problem is with the injectors, how do I tell when I remove > them if there is a problem? When I reinstall them is there any gaskets > or crush washers that I need to replace? If it isn't the injectors, how > do I test the pump? > > 3) Can I tell if the valves are good without removing the head? > > Thanks for the help, all my friends are impressed with the car except > the pesky not running condition it is in right now. > > Oh, on a totally different subject, where is a good place to get > weatherstripping for a 2 dr? > Thanks > Corey ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 09:42:33 -0700 (PDT) From: hue wong Subject: Saturday Shopping Well I've saved up enough nickles that I'm activaly in the market for a new benz. Looked at a 82 300td yesterday at a local lot (Aurorua Clasic Coaches in Seattle) They just happened to have EXACTLY what I was looking for.. a 82 midnight blue 300td. But alas! Nothing is ever good as it seems. First they told me that it only has 80k original...Ummm... o.k. Maybe, the car could, but the seats and carpet looked like it had, had some hard wear. So I pop the hood..... Looks good, but it also looks like they had just sprayed down the engine. So, I do the old trick I learned a while ago. Get down on the hands and knees and give the bottom of the motor the "white glove" treatment of bottom of the engine. Yup,Just as I suspected, came away with think black oil gunk, so something was leaking in the engine for a couple thousands miles anyway...... Then the test drive. We get about two blocks away and it takes it's first shift. LORD! feels like a dwarvin blacksmith is in the trany, pounding out the shift on his anvil and hammer. I've never felt anything shift as hard. It litteraly shook the whole car! All the while, the sales guy is telling me "what a great car it is," and "It's normal for them to shift so clunkly" he tells me. Ha! We whip it around and park it after only a test drive of of oly four blocks. then idley I ask the price. 7999.00 HAHAHAHHA I laugh as I flee the lot in a hi-speed trail of dust... Never a dull moment... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 11:15:41 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: Saturday Shopping On Sun, Jul 20, 2003 at 09:42:33AM -0700, hue wong wrote: > They just happened to have EXACTLY what I was looking > for.. a 82 midnight blue 300td. But alas! Nothing is > ever good as it seems. First they told me that it > only has 80k original...Ummm... o.k. Maybe, the car > could, but the seats and carpet looked like it had, > had some hard wear. So I pop the hood..... Looks > good, but it also looks like they had just sprayed > down the engine. So, I do the old trick I learned a > while ago. Get down on the hands and knees and give > the bottom of the motor the "white glove" treatment of > bottom of the engine. > Yup,Just as I suspected, came away with think black > oil gunk, so something was leaking in the engine for a > couple thousands miles anyway...... > Then the test drive. We get about two blocks away and > it takes it's first shift. LORD! feels like a > dwarvin blacksmith is in the trany, pounding out the > shift on his anvil and hammer. I've never felt > anything shift as hard. It litteraly shook the whole > car! > > All the while, the sales guy is telling me "what a > great car it is," and "It's normal for them to shift > so clunkly" he tells me. Ha! We whip it around and > park it after only a test drive of of oly four blocks. > then idley I ask the price. 7999.00 HAHAHAHHA I laugh > as I flee the lot in a hi-speed trail of dust... hopefully that's a canadian price :) seriously, the rough shift from first to second is something that can usually be adjusted out, especially if the 2-3 shift is excessively loose or sloppy. might be worth letting it sit there for a while and going back to lowball him, if other than the shifting you liked the car. then again, the dealer doesn't seem to be an honest person, so maybe you're better off avoiding him altogether. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (2.2, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 14:43:01 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: Saturday Shopping Had a similar experience with a w140 diesel for sale. Started it up and it shook and vibrated a lot more than normal. The salesman of course says "oh its a diesel thats normal" I shut the car down immediatly and gave him the key back. He still wanted me to take the car out for a drive but for the price he was asking the car should have run better. I knew there was no way I was going to be able to negotiate the price into a reasonable range with them. Went out the other day and saw a few cars myself. I have a friend thats in the market for a car. Saw a 79 450SL in China Red with a black interior. Looked great from a distance but when you got up on the car the clearcoat had started peeling all over the hood and the interior was subaked to death. Some of the plastic parts inside had started to disentegrate due to the heat. Drivers seat was collapsed and leaning. I asked how much hoping that it would have been a nice project. They were asking 10k. The car was not worth a penny over 4k and even then would have been a generous stretch for them. Assuming it even ran :). Down the street was a silver 1986 560SL in Silver with Black interior. Interior was perfect and the exterior was close to perfect as well. They were asking $12k. Even saw a 1981-1985 300SD that from a distance looked good. A friend of mine wanted to find out how much they wanted because he loved my 300SD. When we looked at it closer its interior had seen better days. The Center console wood panel where the climate control and control switches were mounted was broken and pulled out as well what was left of a botched radio install was left below the panel with bare wires showing where someone had just cut their system out. The guy was asking 5k. We had him on speakerphone and he was like "hello? hello? after he mentioned the price." we were all in shock. Lots of trash out there for lots of money :) Robert hue wong wrote: > Well I've saved up enough nickles that I'm activaly in > the market for a new benz. Looked at a 82 300td > yesterday at a local lot (Aurorua Clasic Coaches in > Seattle) > > They just happened to have EXACTLY what I was looking > for.. a 82 midnight blue 300td. But alas! Nothing is > ever good as it seems. First they told me that it > only has 80k original...Ummm... o.k. Maybe, the car > could, but the seats and carpet looked like it had, > had some hard wear. So I pop the hood..... Looks > good, but it also looks like they had just sprayed > down the engine. So, I do the old trick I learned a > while ago. Get down on the hands and knees and give > the bottom of the motor the "white glove" treatment of > bottom of the engine. > Yup,Just as I suspected, came away with think black > oil gunk, so something was leaking in the engine for a > couple thousands miles anyway...... > Then the test drive. We get about two blocks away and > it takes it's first shift. LORD! feels like a > dwarvin blacksmith is in the trany, pounding out the > shift on his anvil and hammer. I've never felt > anything shift as hard. It litteraly shook the whole > car! > > All the while, the sales guy is telling me "what a > great car it is," and "It's normal for them to shift > so clunkly" he tells me. Ha! We whip it around and > park it after only a test drive of of oly four blocks. > then idley I ask the price. 7999.00 HAHAHAHHA I laugh > as I flee the lot in a hi-speed trail of dust... > > Never a dull moment... > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1112 **********************************