From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #1116 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, July 23 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1116 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: Not Benz, but still need wisdom of list Re: wobbly asian import Another shameless advertisement... Re: Not Benz, but still need wisdom of list Re: now is Benz -- was Re: Not Benz, but still need wisdom of Re: now is Benz -- was Re: Not Benz, but still need wisdom of Re: hue's test drive Acronyms Re: hue's test drive injectors Re: hue's test drive Re: injectors Re: injectors Re: injectors Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:33:47 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: Not Benz, but still need wisdom of list On Mon, Jul 21, 2003 at 12:30:07PM -0400, Paul Brown wrote: > My wife's '96 Camry (can't convince her of the joys of driving a 20 year > old car with 50 hp on a good day) has a lot of shimmy in the steering > wheel when she hits the brakes (even slightly) at highway speeds. I > don't notice any at lower speeds. > > What do I look for first? Warped rotors? What else? Warped rotors or effed up pads. It's probably not too bad, because it's only doing it at freeway speeds. Since it's in the steering, it's most likely the front. You may also only be feeling the shimmy at speed because toyotas are SOOO isolated from the road. I had to go test drive one, and got the salesman mad at me - I opened the door up and put my hand on the pavement, and he said "what are you doing" "oh nothing, just making sure there's a road down there. my jeep has better road feel than this piece." K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:17:42 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: wobbly asian import At 05:41 AM 7/22/2003 +0000, diesel-benz-digest wrote: >Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:30:07 -0400 >From: Paul Brown >Subject: Not Benz, but still need wisdom of list >My wife's '96 Camry (can't convince her of the joys of driving a 20 year >old car with 50 hp on a good day) has a lot of shimmy in the steering >wheel when she hits the brakes (even slightly) at highway speeds. I >don't notice any at lower speeds. >What do I look for first? Warped rotors? What else? sounds like warped rotors... common problem these days... john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:02:43 -0400 From: "Jim Steere" Subject: Another shameless advertisement... ....but it IS a greaseburner. It's a '72 220D that was a customer's.....who thought it was worth way more than it is. I bought it....so I can get it sold and outta' my damned parking lot. When I get an opportunity...I'll put it on eBay....but it doesn't look like I'll have time for several days. Until then...to any list members....it $1000 and driver 'er home. Good old car. There's a bunch of pics here: http://www.msdra.com/72_220d.htm If anyone's interested or wants more info contact me off list or by phone. Thanks! Jim Steere Everything Automotive Crystal, MI www.usedbenzparts.com (989)235-4000 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:30:12 CDT From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: Not Benz, but still need wisdom of list > You may also only be feeling the shimmy at speed because toyotas are SOOO > isolated from the road. I had to go test drive one, and got the salesman mad > at me - I opened the door up and put my hand on the pavement, and he said "what > are you doing" "oh nothing, just making sure there's a road down there. my jeep > has better road feel than this piece." > > K > Don't you just love abusing car salespeople like that? ;-) Remember that every OM617 on a non-Benz-specific lot is another opportunity to find a salesman claiming the car has something other than 5 cylinders. Happened to us when we bought the 85 300D off a Dodge lot many moons ago. Alec ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:36:24 CDT From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: now is Benz -- was Re: Not Benz, but still need wisdom of The unsprung weight issue is a big part of the appeal of ceramic brake rotors available from Porsche, Ferrari, and possibly MB, even though the ceramics add somewhere between 2 and 10 thousand dollars. Alec > Paul Schwartz wrote: > > > > What's really going on is that all manufactures are making their brakes > > smaller--less swept area. Brakes work harder and therefore get hotter and > > burn through brake pads faster. > > *** Making them lighter? I was listening to Click&Clack & learned that > windshields are thinner than they used to be - the makers are saving weight > wherever they can. So they can meet EPA gas mileage standards. But weight > at the wheels is a very special kind of weight - "Unsprung weight". > Reducing unsprung weight has a very beneficial effect on handling. It > gives the springs and shocks less mass to control when the car encounters > bumps. The ideal would be weightless wheels, but nobody's figured out > how to do that yet. > > I was very impressed when I got into my 300D and discovered that the > front suspension members were aluminum castings. Actually, probably > forgings. Such a heavy car, and paying attention to unsprung weight like > that! > > > > > I do like my 123 240D because the brakes are strong and it only take about > > an hour to change all the pads. I recently installed Pagin pads as per > > Rusty's recommendation and they seem to work just fine. We'll see how long > > they last. > > > > *** I understand that Mercedes went with fairly soft metal in the brake > disks, making them a disposable part. But they are fairly cheap too. I > think I paid $25 each from Rusty. > > - Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:16:39 -0400 From: "Eurowerks" Subject: Re: now is Benz -- was Re: Not Benz, but still need wisdom of For all that are interested, I happen to have a 30 day deal with carfax that a client of mine bought and decided to purchase the first car that he looked at. If anyone needs a report, just let me know privately, and I will run it for you for the cost of the paper to print it out on and fax it to you. Probably about $1.00 per request. Kirk A. Gilchrist EURO-WERKS / Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Volvo Service and Repair 8 South Highland St. / Winchester, KY 40391 / 859-745-0125 eurowerks-at-qx.net / 888-522-0271 toll free ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:42:48 -0400 From: "J.B. Hebert" Subject: Re: hue's test drive Speaking of 5 speeds... MBZ.ORG has a section on manual transmission interchange parts, but no real info on the specifics for putting a 5 speed in a 123 chassis. As much as I like the MB autos, a 5 speed would be sweet in my '82 300CD. Anyone ever tried this? Any good articles on it? Which 5 speeds might work? Maybe I should just get all the stuff that needs to be fixed done first... :) But I can always dream. J.B. At 05:03 PM 7/20/2003 -0700, you wrote: >I agree the 1st to second transition is a whoop, but I only have a problem >with it if I stomp it from a slow speed or a dead stop. Most of the time >it is not too bad, feels like a bump (especially when cold). When I am in >parking lot type traffic, or hills, I shift my auto through the gears >manually with good results. > >I do miss the 5 speed though....some day I will get another. > >Derick Amburgey >Automated Control Specialist >Port Of Seattle/SeaTac Airport/Satellite Train System >Amateur Radio Callsign: K7DXX >List "Mom" of Diesel-Benz reflector >1985 Mercedes 190D "Tuti" 280,000 Mi (36 mpg) >1984 Mercedes 190D "Charity" 160,000 Mi (in rehab) >1981 Volkswagen Caddy 1.6L 66,000 Mi (50 mpg) > > > > >----Original Message Follows---- >From: john >To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net, diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net >Subject: Re: hue's test drive >Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 15:22:27 -0700 > >At 06:43 PM 7/20/2003 +0000, diesel-benz-digest wrote: >>Then the test drive. We get about two blocks away and >>it takes it's first shift. LORD! feels like a >>dwarvin blacksmith is in the trany, pounding out the >>shift on his anvil and hammer. I've never felt >>anything shift as hard. It litteraly shook the whole >>car! > >you'll have to come over and feel this '85 190D catch >second gear... it's brutal under full throttle. :) it's >also quite annoying in I-405 traffic, which thankfully (PTL) >I will not have to experience any more. :) Which means >I am growing more fond of this little light ivory benz. :) > >john >------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >------------------------------------------------------------------- > >_________________________________________________________________ >The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:52:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Jack Etsweiler Subject: Acronyms You may have seen this document. You'll note that the search argument is a bit arcane, so maybe not. http://www.google.de/search?q=cache:RrSiIG0Y2UwJ:www.baumtools.com/library/vscan/vscan_euro.pdf+alda+mercedes+aneroid&hl=de&ie=UTF-8 Pages 48-49 cover a slew of M-B acronyms. Earlier on there's a fine list of M-B models, engine styles and body code, so take a look. Also covered are BMWs and other German makers. All this because of that pesky ALDA! Enjoy. Jack in Ann Arbor ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:45:56 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: hue's test drive On Tue, Jul 22, 2003 at 11:42:48AM -0400, J.B. Hebert wrote: > Speaking of 5 speeds... MBZ.ORG has a section on manual transmission > interchange parts, but no real info on the specifics for putting a 5 speed > in a 123 chassis. As much as I like the MB autos, a 5 speed would be sweet > in my '82 300CD. Anyone ever tried this? Any good articles on it? Which > 5 speeds might work? Well, having held two w201 five speed trannies in my hand, I don't know that I'd consider (1) putting one behind a turbo OM617 and (2) putting one in the significantly heavier w123. Granted, junkyards I talked to couldn't believe I needed a new one because each one of them was convinced they were bulletproof in the cars that they came in (which is probably a key point). Also, the two transmissions were slightly different (Derick and I almost started to think my 190D ended up with a 190E transmission somehow along the road). Putting all THAT aside, I still have the old transmission that came out of my 190D and could take digital pictures with a ruler in case anyone wanted to see if it would even line up to an OM617 bellhousing, or if there was room for a spacer. If I wanted a manual transmission behind an OM617, I'd probably start with the transmission that came behind the OM616 in the 240Ds, or the four speed that came in the grey market 300Ds. Sure, it's one gear less, but it was actually designed with the weight of the w123 in mind, and would probably hold up better in that respect than the w201 transmission. I also hear that the 240D four speed was much smoother shifting than my five speed is, but have yet to personally drive a 240D four speed. Did the grey market 300D come with an OM616 or OM617? I am still trying to figure out just how a 72 horsepower 2.2L cracked gears in a transmission that came with the car (as far as I know). I'm pretty sure a fifth to second shift would make the transmission the weak link in a hurry, and for whomever did that in my car's past, they're lucky it just cracked it instead of sending pieces of the tranny out through the thin aluminum case (like a chrysler automatic is known for doing when it blows). > Maybe I should just get all the stuff that needs to be fixed done first... > :) But I can always dream. :) K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (2.2, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:54:04 -0800 From: "corey church" Subject: injectors I just got the call from the diesel place about the injectors for buttercup. They say that the injectors are blued (sp?) - got heated up and need new nozzels etc. total cost $400. Does this sound reasonable? thats about $250us. I might just use some used injectors for a little while till I can afford to rebuild them, just to make sure that this is the problem. Does that sound reasonable? I know I'm cheaping out, but I don't want to spend more money I don't have if the motor is cooked. Thanks for the advise Corey - -- corey church coreychurch-at-fastmail.fm - -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Consolidate POP email and Hotmail in one place ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:05:08 -0400 From: "J.B. Hebert" Subject: Re: hue's test drive At 02:45 PM 7/22/2003 -0700, you wrote: >On Tue, Jul 22, 2003 at 11:42:48AM -0400, J.B. Hebert wrote: > > Speaking of 5 speeds... MBZ.ORG has a section on manual transmission > > interchange parts, but no real info on the specifics for putting a 5 speed > > in a 123 chassis. As much as I like the MB autos, a 5 speed would be > sweet > > in my '82 300CD. Anyone ever tried this? Any good articles on it? Which > > 5 speeds might work? > >Well, having held two w201 five speed trannies in my hand, I don't know that >I'd consider (1) putting one behind a turbo OM617 and (2) putting one in the >significantly heavier w123. > >Granted, junkyards I talked to couldn't believe I needed a new one because >each one of them was convinced they were bulletproof in the cars that they >came in (which is probably a key point). Also, the two transmissions were >slightly different (Derick and I almost started to think my 190D ended up with >a 190E transmission somehow along the road). > >Putting all THAT aside, I still have the old transmission that came out of >my 190D and could take digital pictures with a ruler in case anyone wanted to >see if it would even line up to an OM617 bellhousing, or if there was room for >a spacer. I agree... while the 190 tranny would probably work OK, it would be marginal at best. I was thinking the 5 speed that was available in the G-Wagon behind the OM617. I think it would be a better candidate. Even so, I'd love to see some pics of the 190 tranny "just in case"... >If I wanted a manual transmission behind an OM617, I'd probably start with the >transmission that came behind the OM616 in the 240Ds, or the four speed that >came in the grey market 300Ds. Sure, it's one gear less, but it was actually >designed with the weight of the w123 in mind, and would probably hold up >better >in that respect than the w201 transmission. I also hear that the 240D four >speed was much smoother shifting than my five speed is, but have yet to >personally drive a 240D four speed. Did the grey market 300D come with an >OM616 or OM617? The 4 speed would be a practical swap, but if I'm going to go to the effort of any swap, I want to have an OD gear. 90% of the mileage this car sees is highway, and it can only help fuel economy. >I am still trying to figure out just how a 72 horsepower 2.2L cracked gears in >a transmission that came with the car (as far as I know). I'm pretty sure a >fifth to second shift would make the transmission the weak link in a hurry, >and for whomever did that in my car's past, they're lucky it just cracked it >instead of sending pieces of the tranny out through the thin aluminum case >(like a chrysler automatic is known for doing when it blows). Even the strongest tranny will break through abuse. And those diesels are torquey. :) > > Maybe I should just get all the stuff that needs to be fixed done first... > > :) But I can always dream. > >:) > >K > >-- >Kevin Pekarek >Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and >Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) >85 190D (2.2, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:09:54 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: injectors Hey Corey, Sounds reasoable to me. Those injectors are pretty robust anyway. Most of the time they can be cleaned to return them to good working order. Never heard of injectors being ruined unless something "breaks". A set of "hardly used" injectors cleaned and installed will last you quite some time. Robert corey church wrote: > I just got the call from the diesel place about the injectors for > buttercup. They say that the injectors are blued (sp?) - got heated up > and need new nozzels etc. total cost $400. Does this sound reasonable? > thats about $250us. I might just use some used injectors for a little > while till I can afford to rebuild them, just to make sure that this is > the problem. Does that sound reasonable? I know I'm cheaping out, but I > don't want to spend more money I don't have if the motor is cooked. > Thanks for the advise > Corey ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:18:57 -0400 From: Michael Frank Subject: Re: injectors They always get blue after a little use. My suggestion would be a halfway measure. remove the injectors, disassemble them, and soak 'em in carburetor cleaner. Pick off any heavy deposits, then reassemble. Replace the injector hoses, and replace the fuel filters. Then see what it does. Mike Frank ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:17:21 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: injectors On Tue, Jul 22, 2003 at 05:54:04PM -0800, corey church wrote: > I just got the call from the diesel place about the injectors for > buttercup. They say that the injectors are blued (sp?) - got heated up > and need new nozzels etc. total cost $400. Does this sound reasonable? > thats about $250us. I might just use some used injectors for a little > while till I can afford to rebuild them, just to make sure that this is > the problem. Does that sound reasonable? I know I'm cheaping out, but I > don't want to spend more money I don't have if the motor is cooked. Understandable. If the injectors are hosed up to the point where a shop wants to rebuild them for you, then your car isn't going to run very well at all, and will probably make a good deal of banging. For the price, I think you can get the new (well, rebuilt) ones for about $50 a piece retail in the states, but if they're rebuilding them as a set, they can match them to each other and you'll get smoother results and more power out of them. I liked the idea someone posted about cleaning them out and having a go, but if that worked but still not all the way, you may be taking them out and spending the cash anyways. I guess it depends on how much time you are willing to throw at the problem. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1116 **********************************