From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #1124 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Monday, July 28 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1124 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: 201 and 124, or the 190d and the 300d Door locks Re: Door locks Re[4]: This was: I'm Stumped; Long Re: Door locks Re: Re[4]: This was: I'm Stumped; Long 300TD Exhaust system Re[6]: This was: I'm Stumped; Long Re: State of the W123 Union Re: 96 diesel E-class (long) Re: 96 diesel E-class Back to work on the 240D... Oh no! Re: Oh no! Re: Oh no! Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:05:56 -0500 From: DanG Subject: Re: 201 and 124, or the 190d and the 300d And, wasn't it you that was out of MB for a while some months ago and saying it was a good place? Here in 2 months you have had, what?, 3 MB into and out of the corral at Snohomish? What a guy. The 2.5 is covetable - very clean. Now, get that gitupandgo thingie working correctly so you can merge traffic better... Dan ChicagoArea > Like both. Getting the 190d ready for the new owner, he's > flying up Saturday to pick it up. Topped off the tank tonight > and ran it through the car wash. When we got back I decided to > take a few pictures of both together. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:18:55 -0700 From: "Paul Schwartz" Subject: Door locks Although my door locks work, they work very slowly. I've thought about spending a couple of days working through this, but a thought occurred to me. Has anyone ever replace the vacuum locks with an after market electrical system? Does anybody make a kit for a 123 chassis? Just curious. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:48:37 -0400 From: "S.D.Byers" Subject: Re: Door locks First check over the vacuum system. Tighten any sloppy looking connections. Maybe a replace some little rubber things. Make sure your pump is putting out correctly. I.e. Look for the low cost fixes first. SDB On Mon, 28 Jul 2003, Paul Schwartz wrote: |Although my door locks work, they work very slowly. I've thought about |spending a couple of days working through this, but a thought occurred to |me. | |Has anyone ever replace the vacuum locks with an after market electrical |system? Does anybody make a kit for a 123 chassis? | |Just curious. | |Paul | ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:27:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Welty Subject: Re[4]: This was: I'm Stumped; Long On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 08:25:45 -0700 (PDT) john wrote: > On Mon, 28 Jul 2003, Richard Welty wrote: > >-->1996 Mercedes 300D (wife's 4 season sedan) > any pictures? is this the 124 chassis? I don't know much > about the newer models, really happy with this '91 300d. :) the 124 chassis run ended in 1995. 1996 is the first year, i think, where they called the mid-sized sedan the E-class. i believe that the chassis type is 210. richard - -- Richard Welty rwelty-at-suespammers.org Averill Park Networking rwelty-at-averillpark.net Unix, Linux, IP Network Engineering, Security rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com 518-573-7592 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:00:31 CDT From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: Door locks > Although my door locks work, they work very slowly. I've thought about > spending a couple of days working through this, but a thought occurred to > me. > > Has anyone ever replace the vacuum locks with an after market electrical > system? Does anybody make a kit for a 123 chassis? > > Just curious. > > Paul > I think most aftermarket keyless electric lock systems installed on these just tie in to the existing vacuum system rather than replacing it. You would still need to clean up the current system. On newer models, including my 89 300CE and our previous 95 C280, the locks are still physically moved with a vacuum system, but that vacuum system uses an electrically-triggered pump (under the front passenger seat on mine, i think). So MB provides the elctrical interface to the vacuum system, and keyless remotes (or the dashboard lock switch on new models) can just give the same kind of signal that they do on all other makes. I definitely notice any time I'm in a non Benz, and as soon as you start moving, the door locks go THUNK!, instead of the silent operation afforded by our superior system. ;-) Alec ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:42:08 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: Re[4]: This was: I'm Stumped; Long On Mon, 28 Jul 2003, Richard Welty wrote: >-->On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 08:25:45 -0700 (PDT) john wrote: >-->> On Mon, 28 Jul 2003, Richard Welty wrote: >-->> >-->1996 Mercedes 300D (wife's 4 season sedan) >--> >-->> any pictures? is this the 124 chassis? I don't know much >-->> about the newer models, really happy with this '91 300d. :) >--> >-->the 124 chassis run ended in 1995. >--> >-->1996 is the first year, i think, where they called the mid-sized sedan the >-->E-class. i believe that the chassis type is 210. any specs? john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) The revolt is underway, you can not stop it. FEAR THE PENGUIN!!!! May the SOURCE be With GNU - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:49:08 -0700 (PDT) From: mark sorros Subject: 300TD Exhaust system If any one is interested, a friend has an exhaust system from his 82 300 TD wagon he is will to sell. The system is about 6 months old. It's from performance products and would be shipped or picked up from Mountain View, CA. If anyone is interested, please email be off list and I will put you in contact with him. I have no personal interest in this transaction. Thanks, Mark __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:56:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Welty Subject: Re[6]: This was: I'm Stumped; Long On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:42:08 -0700 (PDT) john wrote: > On Mon, 28 Jul 2003, Richard Welty wrote: > >-->1996 is the first year, i think, where they called the mid-sized > >-->sedan the E-class. i believe that the chassis type is 210. > any specs? the following specs are pilfered from edmunds.com. some comments before the specs... 1) dimensionally, it's actually pretty similar to the 123 sedan. bumper to bumper, the length is about the same, although the 210 bumpers don't stick out so much. the more massive appearance than the 123 seems to be an artifact of the styling. 2) ours has a bit over 100k on it. my wife's daily commute is about 10 miles one way, with highway characteristics. we are definitely seeing fuel mileage in the claimed 35mpg range. 3) a mechanic who is unfamilar with the cars can make a fine mess. in particular, the fool system is full of one use o-rings, and the correct tightening of the container for the engine compartment fool filter will strike most mechanics as being massive overtightening -- but you really do need to crank it down way hard, and then crank it down some more. making any of these mistakes will allow air to leak into the fool lines, resulting in a bad running car. 4) we've not observed any issues relating to the engine compartment wiring harness. whatever problem the cars that came just before had, these cars seem to be free of it. 5) the BIG TIRES are #$%$-at-!# expensive. we're looking at Kumho Ecstas (either the HP4 716 Grand Touring All seasons or the KH11 Grand Touring summer) as possibly being affordable quality tires as the Contis the previous owner put on it are busy dying messy deaths right now. 6) with good tires, the car drives very acceptably on snow (so did our 123s, for that matter.) it is trivial, though, to make the triangular traction control light come on when driving up our driveway in the snow. 7) around here, the only diesel you want to put into it is hess. all the other stations are buying junk during the winter from the same wholesaler, in December->february there is only one trustworthy source. 8) thank god for rusty. our local dealer tried to charge me $200 for a $17 radiator hose. the specs: Exterior Length: 189.4 in. Width: 70.8 in. Height: 56.2 in. Wheel Base: 111.5 in. Curb Weight: 3538 lbs. Interior Front Head Room: 37.6 in. Front Hip Room: 54.9 in. Front Shoulder Room: 56.3 in. Rear Head Room: 37.2 in. Rear Shoulder Room: 57.1 in. Rear Hip Room: 55.9 in. Front Leg Room: 41.3 in. Rear Leg Room: 36.1 in. Luggage Capacity: 14.6 cu. ft. Maximum Seating: 5 Performance Data Performance Acceleration (0-60 mph): 12.3 sec. Base Number of Cylinders: 6 Base Engine Size: 3 liters Base Engine Type: Inline 6 Horsepower: 134 hp Max Horsepower: 5000 rpm Torque: 155 ft-lbs. Max Torque: 2600 rpm Drive Type: RWD Turning Circle: 37.1 ft. Fuel Data Fuel Fuel Tank Capacity: 17.2 gal. EPA Mileage Estimates: (City/Highway) Automatic: : 28 mpg / 35 mpg Range in Miles: (City/Highway) Automatic: 481.6 mi. / 602 mi. - -- Richard Welty rwelty-at-suespammers.org Averill Park Networking rwelty-at-averillpark.net Unix, Linux, IP Network Engineering, Security rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com 518-573-7592 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:58:36 -0700 (PDT) From: hue wong Subject: Re: State of the W123 Union Hey when it comes to soundproofing, get some sound proof rolls from Jc whitny (I kinda forget but it was something like 3x9 for 20.00 for 1/2 foam) I did a 68 200 deisel a while back. The engine compartment, Firewall, underhood and up the inside of the fenders and then did the inside of the of the passangers compartment (floors and door panels and WOW! did it make a difference. It went from sounding like a panzer tank to an almost nice quite ride. I highly recommend this (although the foam on the inside fenders kept getting banged up as I was in and out of the engine. stil I think I paid 70.00 bucks and did most of the work on a saturday! - --- Jerome Kaidor wrote: > john wrote: > > > > soundproof the bay while it's out... rhino line or > undercoat > > then add sound proofing material over that. :) > > *** I have an Astro cargo van that desperately needs > soundproofing as well. > It's got the Fuel Pump from Hell. Loudest thing you > ever heard. And the > road noise is pretty bad too. Since it's been > elected as the designated > vehicle for our Fresno run, we're going to spend a > lot of hours listening to > all that noise.... > > I was thinking of getting some high tech > foil-backed soundproofing > material I saw on Ebay. Just soundproof the > bejezus out of the underside of > the floor, for starters. > > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:19:56 CDT From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: 96 diesel E-class (long) > >-->1996 is the first year, i think, where they called the mid-sized sedan the > >-->E-class. i believe that the chassis type is 210. > > any specs? > > john According to http://home.hiwaay.net/~gbf/mbmodels.html, the 97 E300 Diesel W210 sedan used the OM606.912 motor with 134hp, and the car weighed 3538 pounds. There was also a later turbodiesel with 174hp, but engine number and model year are not clearly indicated on that page. Aha! From hidden pages on mbusa.com, I found: 1996 E300 Diesel Sedan Model Year 1996 U.S. Sales 2,592 Original Retail Price $39,900 Engine DOHC 24-valve, inline 6-cylinder diesel. Displacement 182.8cu in/2,996cc Net power 134 hp/110 kw -at- 5,500 rpm Net torque 155 lb-ft/210 N.m -at- 2,600 rpm Fuel and ignition system Mechanical fuel injection and compression ignition. Fuel requirement Diesel #1 or #2. Compression ratio 22.0:1 Transmission 4-speed automatic. Rear axle ratio 2.87:1 Bore x stroke 3.43x3.31 in/87.0x84.0 mm Maximum engine speed 5,450 rpm Alternator output 14V/90 A Battery rating 12V/100 Ah Fuel capacity 21.1-2.6 tank-reserve/80.0-10.0 gal/l Oil capacity 7.4 qt/7.0 l Coolant capacity 10.0 qt/9.5 l Acceleration 0-60 mph in 12.3 seconds Exterior Dimensions Overall length 189.4 in/4,810 mm Wheelbase 111.5 in/2,833 mm Front overhang 32.8 in/833 mm Rear overhang 45.0 in/1,144 mm Overall height 56.7 in/1,439 mm Overall width 70.8 in/1,799 mm Front track 60.2 in/1,529 mm Rear track 59.9 in/1,521 mm Turning circle 37.2 ft/11.34 m Curb weight 3,538 lb/1,605 kg Coefficient of drag 0.29 Cd Interior Dimensions Front headroom 37.6 in/954 mm Rear headroom 37.2 in/944 mm Front legroom 41.3 in/1,050 mm Rear legroom 36.1 in/918 mm Front hiproom 54.9 in/1,394 mm Rear hiproom 55.9 in/1,420 mm Front shoulder room 56.3 in/1,431 mm Rear shoulder room 57.1 in/1,450 mm Cabin capacity 95.0 cu ft/2.69 cu m Trunk capacity 15.3 cu ft/0.434 cu m Total visible glass area 28.7 sq ft/2.66 sq m Steering wheel turns (lock-to-lock) 3.3 Tire type and size (steel-belted radial) 215/55HR16 93 all-season. Wheel size (aluminum alloy) 7.5Jx16 H2 Whew! For those that want to explore further, I reached the hidden page by hitting the Site Map page at http://www.mbusa.com/main/sitemap/index.jsp, then under Starmark Pre Owned -> Model overview, I chose 1996. They have 1995 through 2002 listed. All seem to go to a C-Class page. The 1996 link was: http://www.mbusa.com/brand/container.jsp?/starmark/overview/overview_engine.jsp& yearModelCode=96_C220&class=96_C&rnav=012345678&subNav=overview&menu=3 I went there, then changed yearModelCode in the URL from 96_C220 to 96_E300, and class from 96_C to 96_E. That gets you into a section with the model years as menu choices. The 1995 E300 Diesel appears to have technical information relevant to the 1991 W124 300D 2.5 Turbo. Enjoy! Alec ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:39:33 CDT From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: 96 diesel E-class > Whew! > For those that want to explore further, I reached the hidden page by hitting > the Site Map page at http://www.mbusa.com/main/sitemap/index.jsp, then under > Starmark Pre Owned -> Model overview, I chose 1996. They have 1995 through 2002 > listed. All seem to go to a C-Class page. The 1996 link was: > http://www.mbusa.com/brand/container.jsp?/starmark/overview/overview_engine.jsp& > yearModelCode=96_C220&class=96_C&rnav=012345678&subNav=overview&menu=3 > I went there, then changed yearModelCode in the URL from 96_C220 to 96_E300, > and class from 96_C to 96_E. That gets you into a section with the model years > as menu choices. > > The 1995 E300 Diesel appears to have technical information relevant to the 1991 > W124 300D 2.5 Turbo. > > Enjoy! > Alec > Ooooh Doggie! Looks like 1998 saw the turbocharged, intercooled, DOHC, 24-valve, straight 6 diesel with 174hp-at-5000rpm, torque of "244 lb-ft -at- 1,600-3,000 rpm" (!!), 0-60 in 8.5 seconds, EPA estimates of 26/34. The 98 E320 gasser had 221hp, 232 lb-ft, double spark plugs, 0-60 in 7.1s, EPA ratings of 21/29, and Original Retail Price $3,700 HIGHER than the diesel, although standard equipment levels probably differred. Alec ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:03:49 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Back to work on the 240D... Well folks... I've got the 240D raised and I'm trying to figure out my options for the floor pan. If any of you have the desire, you could view the following pics and give me your opinions. Any help will be greatly appreciated! TIA Jim/ Right after I *discovered* the problem... http://my.execpc.com/~jslash/240D/MBRust2.jpg http://my.execpc.com/~jslash/240D/MBRust3.jpg After the see was removed this weekend... http://my.execpc.com/~jslash/240D/BenzMissingFloor.JPG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:25:49 -0400 (EDT) From: "S.D.Byers" Subject: Oh no! The iraq thing has gone too far! Check out the picture on this news story, http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/stories/2003072901451400.htm Deep link to picture: http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/images/2003072901451401.jpg They are starting to burn up the benzes. How the hell do they think taxi service will exist in iraq after all this is over if they allow benzes to be burnt. Most places in the world Benz (diesels) are the staple taxi vehicle. SDB ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:30:09 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: Oh no! And why are we there again? I thought it was for Weapons of mass distruction but then someone changed their minds and now we are there to liberate the people of Iraq. Will we not be happy until they are all driving late model Chevys? Robert Chase S.D.Byers wrote: > The iraq thing has gone too far! Check out the picture on this news story, > > http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/stories/2003072901451400.htm > > Deep link to picture: > > http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/images/2003072901451401.jpg > > They are starting to burn up the benzes. How the hell do they think taxi > service will exist in iraq after all this is over if they allow benzes to > be burnt. Most places in the world Benz (diesels) are the staple taxi > vehicle. > > > SDB ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:37:43 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: Oh no! Sheesh, What staying home all day will do to you. Destruction. not Distruction. Uuugh. Im gaining weight and getting stupid uuuugh..! Robert Robert Chase wrote: > And why are we there again? I thought it was for Weapons of mass > distruction but then someone changed their minds and now we are there to > liberate the people of Iraq. Will we not be happy until they are all > driving late model Chevys? > > Robert Chase > > S.D.Byers wrote: > >> The iraq thing has gone too far! Check out the picture on this news >> story, >> >> http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/stories/2003072901451400.htm >> >> Deep link to picture: >> >> http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/images/2003072901451401.jpg >> >> They are starting to burn up the benzes. How the hell do they think taxi >> service will exist in iraq after all this is over if they allow benzes to >> be burnt. Most places in the world Benz (diesels) are the staple taxi >> vehicle. >> >> >> SDB ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1124 **********************************