From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #1131 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, July 30 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1131 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: Fortunate Misfortune Re: Fortunate Misfortune Re: Fortunate Misfortune Re: Fortunate Misfortune Re: lower ball joint RE: lower ball joint RE: lower ball joint RE: lower ball joint "New" 300D possibility- opinions sought Re: "New" 300D possibility- opinions sought RE: lower ball joint Re: New 300D possibility- opinions sought Re: Fortunate Misfortune Re: "New" 300D possibility- opinions sought Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:18:37 -0700 From: Mike Frank Subject: Re: Fortunate Misfortune I guess you're looking at an older Benz. My 190 has one (1) serpentine belt that drives everything. If it goes, you are done. They were so concerned about the A/C compressor seizing and tearing up the belt, that they put a speed sensor in it, and an elaborate mechanism which disengages the clutch if the compressor speed isn't proportional to engine speed. Mike Frank At 07:37 AM 7/30/2003 -0400, you wrote: >p. Mercedes really designed the "limp home" type of engineering into >their cars. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 05:34:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: Fortunate Misfortune Robert Chase wrote: > situation right? I discovered that my A/C compressor belt had also > "gone away" and is probably the cause for my lack of cool air that I had > grown to like. *** Don't be overly disappointed if it needs a compressor. Often, when an A/C belt "goes away", it's because the compressor froze. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:38:39 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: Fortunate Misfortune Hmmm, Serpentine belts are nice even though they "make you" replace them just out of fear of being stranded :). Im gonna go and look under the hood a little more and see if there are any other horrible things waiting to suprise me when Im not expecting it and order parts and be slightly ahead of the game :) Robert Chase. Mike Frank wrote: > I guess you're looking at an older Benz. My 190 has one (1) serpentine > belt that drives everything. If it goes, you are done. They were so > concerned about the A/C compressor seizing and tearing up the belt, that > they put a speed sensor in it, and an elaborate mechanism which > disengages the clutch if the compressor speed isn't proportional to > engine speed. > > Mike Frank > > At 07:37 AM 7/30/2003 -0400, you wrote: > >> p. Mercedes really designed the "limp home" type of engineering into >> their cars. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:42:05 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: Fortunate Misfortune I came to terms with the loss of the compressor when I started getting humid warm air through the vents. If thats the case no big problem. I just dont want to damage my steering rack by driving it without a power steering pump. Robert Chase Jerome Kaidor wrote: > Robert Chase wrote: > >>situation right? I discovered that my A/C compressor belt had also >>"gone away" and is probably the cause for my lack of cool air that I had >>grown to like. > > > *** Don't be overly disappointed if it needs a compressor. Often, when an > A/C belt "goes away", it's because the compressor froze. > > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 05:41:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: lower ball joint Mike Frank wrote: > > It wasn't me, but there are tools that allow you to press out the joint > without removing the arm. > *** Car manufacturers often go a bit overboard on the special tools. They specify special tools for jobs that you can do perfectly well with ordinary tools. This is not one of those cases.... I think for this particular application you do need the special MB tool. I've seen it, it's pretty beefy. To press a steel ball joint into an aluminum control arm - the forces are enormous. It's got to be an interference fit. The ball joint casing is actually bigger than the hole. And since the coefficient of expansion WRT temperature is greater for aluminum than for steel, the differential has to be large; larger than it would need to be for steel being pressed into steel. And the tool has a special shape so it can push on the case of the ball joint rather than on the ball. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:07:40 -0400 From: "Jeff Domogala" Subject: RE: lower ball joint I took both of mine to the dealer with replacement parts in hand. They had the tool. Cost me like $20 to have them pressed in. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Jerome Kaidor Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 8:41 AM To: Mike Frank Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: lower ball joint Mike Frank wrote: > > It wasn't me, but there are tools that allow you to press out the joint > without removing the arm. > *** Car manufacturers often go a bit overboard on the special tools. They specify special tools for jobs that you can do perfectly well with ordinary tools. This is not one of those cases.... I think for this particular application you do need the special MB tool. I've seen it, it's pretty beefy. To press a steel ball joint into an aluminum control arm - the forces are enormous. It's got to be an interference fit. The ball joint casing is actually bigger than the hole. And since the coefficient of expansion WRT temperature is greater for aluminum than for steel, the differential has to be large; larger than it would need to be for steel being pressed into steel. And the tool has a special shape so it can push on the case of the ball joint rather than on the ball. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:08:55 -0400 From: "Jeff Domogala" Subject: RE: lower ball joint I should have mentioned.... you do have to take the arm out, and the tool is indeed special. The ball joint is at a weird angle that you cannot get at it with an oridnary press. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Jerome Kaidor Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 8:41 AM To: Mike Frank Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: lower ball joint Mike Frank wrote: > > It wasn't me, but there are tools that allow you to press out the joint > without removing the arm. > *** Car manufacturers often go a bit overboard on the special tools. They specify special tools for jobs that you can do perfectly well with ordinary tools. This is not one of those cases.... I think for this particular application you do need the special MB tool. I've seen it, it's pretty beefy. To press a steel ball joint into an aluminum control arm - the forces are enormous. It's got to be an interference fit. The ball joint casing is actually bigger than the hole. And since the coefficient of expansion WRT temperature is greater for aluminum than for steel, the differential has to be large; larger than it would need to be for steel being pressed into steel. And the tool has a special shape so it can push on the case of the ball joint rather than on the ball. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:10:20 -0400 From: "Aimino, Michael" Subject: RE: lower ball joint I assume that this doesn't refer to W123 or 126 cars. On the 123 and 126 chassis, the ball joint is pressed into the steering knuckle, not the lower control arm, and the ball joint can be easily replaced without removing the lower control arm or messing with the coil spring. I've replaced two of these ball joints, and it's not a difficult job. MBZ makes a special tool for pressing the new joint in. It's expensive. The toolwarehouse sells the same tool for a lot less (around $99). They're at www.thetoolwarehouse.net. They also sell a tool for removing tie rod ends. Costs $20 and works great. - -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Domogala [mailto:inbox-at-domogala.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 9:09 AM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: RE: lower ball joint I should have mentioned.... you do have to take the arm out, and the tool is indeed special. The ball joint is at a weird angle that you cannot get at it with an oridnary press. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Jerome Kaidor Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 8:41 AM To: Mike Frank Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: lower ball joint Mike Frank wrote: > > It wasn't me, but there are tools that allow you to press out the joint > without removing the arm. > *** Car manufacturers often go a bit overboard on the special tools. They specify special tools for jobs that you can do perfectly well with ordinary tools. This is not one of those cases.... I think for this particular application you do need the special MB tool. I've seen it, it's pretty beefy. To press a steel ball joint into an aluminum control arm - the forces are enormous. It's got to be an interference fit. The ball joint casing is actually bigger than the hole. And since the coefficient of expansion WRT temperature is greater for aluminum than for steel, the differential has to be large; larger than it would need to be for steel being pressed into steel. And the tool has a special shape so it can push on the case of the ball joint rather than on the ball. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 07:30:46 -0700 From: Greg Fiorentino Subject: "New" 300D possibility- opinions sought Fellow MB Dieselheads: I am looking at a new '79 300D. It runs and rides well, has good power. It is cream-yellow, like the 300TD. The body is good, only the LR fender appears to have been refinished, and the paint there is slightly crazed at the top. The bad news: The front upholstery is slightly damaged at the edges, the radio and rear speakers are gone, with radio wiring cut, the tires are minimal treadwise, the windshield is cracked, the a/c is non-functioning, and the front rotors seem warped. Front end is a little sloppy, could need ball joints. It has covered 275K mi. He is asking $2300. I am concerned that the high mileage could mean a trans failure in the not-too-distant future, even though it seems fine now. I wonder if it is worth putting this much into a car which will need substantial further $ right off the bat, and could be a total loss before too long. All input is welcome. Greg Greg Fiorentino Vancouver USA gfior-at-dslnorthwest.net '84 300D Turbo '79 300TD '85 F-350 6.9 crew cab ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:36:06 -0400 From: "J.B. Hebert" Subject: Re: "New" 300D possibility- opinions sought $2300 seems high for a car that needs that much work and has that many miles. I have seen many 300D's, even later turbos, with less mileage for under $2k. I would keep looking. J.B. At 07:30 AM 7/30/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Fellow MB Dieselheads: > >I am looking at a new '79 300D. It runs and rides well, has good >power. It is cream-yellow, like the 300TD. The body is good, only the LR >fender appears to have been refinished, and the paint there is slightly >crazed at the top. The bad news: The front upholstery is slightly >damaged at the edges, the radio and rear speakers are gone, with radio >wiring cut, the tires are minimal treadwise, the windshield is cracked, >the a/c is non-functioning, and the front rotors seem warped. Front end >is a little sloppy, could need ball joints. > >It has covered 275K mi. > >He is asking $2300. I am concerned that the high mileage could mean a >trans failure in the not-too-distant future, even though it seems fine >now. I wonder if it is worth putting this much into a car which will need >substantial further $ right off the bat, and could be a total loss before >too long. > >All input is welcome. > >Greg >Greg Fiorentino >Vancouver USA >gfior-at-dslnorthwest.net > >'84 300D Turbo >'79 300TD >'85 F-350 6.9 crew cab ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:47:27 -0400 From: "Jeff Domogala" Subject: RE: lower ball joint He's right. My hands typed before I thought. For the W123, all you do is disconnect the top ball joint, take the nut off the bottom ball joint, break it and take the steering knuckle / hub carrier piece out. The control arm stays in place and you don't mess with the spring. You can get the old ball joint out by any persuasion method, it's getting it back in that requires the special tool. Again, I had the dealer press the new ones in for about $20. They have the equipment, know how to use it, and it's cheap. It's been too long since I had a W115/116 vehicle, plus I never had to replace the ball joints on one. The special tool does say it's used on W116 chassis as well. Jeff - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Aimino, Michael Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 10:10 AM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: RE: lower ball joint I assume that this doesn't refer to W123 or 126 cars. On the 123 and 126 chassis, the ball joint is pressed into the steering knuckle, not the lower control arm, and the ball joint can be easily replaced without removing the lower control arm or messing with the coil spring. I've replaced two of these ball joints, and it's not a difficult job. MBZ makes a special tool for pressing the new joint in. It's expensive. The toolwarehouse sells the same tool for a lot less (around $99). They're at www.thetoolwarehouse.net. They also sell a tool for removing tie rod ends. Costs $20 and works great. - -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Domogala [mailto:inbox-at-domogala.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 9:09 AM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: RE: lower ball joint I should have mentioned.... you do have to take the arm out, and the tool is indeed special. The ball joint is at a weird angle that you cannot get at it with an oridnary press. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Jerome Kaidor Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 8:41 AM To: Mike Frank Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: lower ball joint Mike Frank wrote: > > It wasn't me, but there are tools that allow you to press out the joint > without removing the arm. > *** Car manufacturers often go a bit overboard on the special tools. They specify special tools for jobs that you can do perfectly well with ordinary tools. This is not one of those cases.... I think for this particular application you do need the special MB tool. I've seen it, it's pretty beefy. To press a steel ball joint into an aluminum control arm - the forces are enormous. It's got to be an interference fit. The ball joint casing is actually bigger than the hole. And since the coefficient of expansion WRT temperature is greater for aluminum than for steel, the differential has to be large; larger than it would need to be for steel being pressed into steel. And the tool has a special shape so it can push on the case of the ball joint rather than on the ball. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:00:38 CDT From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: New 300D possibility- opinions sought I concur. Alec > $2300 seems high for a car that needs that much work and has that many > miles. I have seen many 300D's, even later turbos, with less mileage for > under $2k. I would keep looking. > > J.B. > > At 07:30 AM 7/30/2003 -0700, you wrote: > >Fellow MB Dieselheads: > > > >I am looking at a new '79 300D. It runs and rides well, has good > >power. It is cream-yellow, like the 300TD. The body is good, only the LR > >fender appears to have been refinished, and the paint there is slightly > >crazed at the top. The bad news: The front upholstery is slightly > >damaged at the edges, the radio and rear speakers are gone, with radio > >wiring cut, the tires are minimal treadwise, the windshield is cracked, > >the a/c is non-functioning, and the front rotors seem warped. Front end > >is a little sloppy, could need ball joints. > > > >It has covered 275K mi. > > > >He is asking $2300. I am concerned that the high mileage could mean a > >trans failure in the not-too-distant future, even though it seems fine > >now. I wonder if it is worth putting this much into a car which will need > >substantial further $ right off the bat, and could be a total loss before > >too long. > > > >All input is welcome. > > > >Greg > >Greg Fiorentino > >Vancouver USA > >gfior-at-dslnorthwest.net > > > >'84 300D Turbo > >'79 300TD > >'85 F-350 6.9 crew cab ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:03:09 CDT From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: Fortunate Misfortune > Even the power sterring being missing was not a horrible thing. > The sterring required more effort but some american cars are completely > undrivable because of the steering effort required to turn the wheel > without power assist :). > > Robert Chase > And that big, wide steering wheel comes in handy when the power assist has disappeared, doesn't it? ;-) Alec ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:23:24 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: "New" 300D possibility- opinions sought fwiw, the guy that bought my '81 300D is selling so he can move (just went through a divorce), he's installed euro lights, new timing chain, fixed minor body dings, etc... he's asking $4k if I recall, but the car is immaculate. I was the 3rd owner, california car, moved to seattle, etc. john On Wed, 30 Jul 2003, J.B. Hebert wrote: >-->$2300 seems high for a car that needs that much work and has that many >-->miles. I have seen many 300D's, even later turbos, with less mileage for >-->under $2k. I would keep looking. >--> >-->J.B. >--> >-->At 07:30 AM 7/30/2003 -0700, you wrote: >-->>Fellow MB Dieselheads: >-->> >-->>I am looking at a new '79 300D. It runs and rides well, has good >-->>power. It is cream-yellow, like the 300TD. The body is good, only the LR >-->>fender appears to have been refinished, and the paint there is slightly >-->>crazed at the top. The bad news: The front upholstery is slightly >-->>damaged at the edges, the radio and rear speakers are gone, with radio >-->>wiring cut, the tires are minimal treadwise, the windshield is cracked, >-->>the a/c is non-functioning, and the front rotors seem warped. Front end >-->>is a little sloppy, could need ball joints. >-->> >-->>It has covered 275K mi. >-->> >-->>He is asking $2300. I am concerned that the high mileage could mean a >-->>trans failure in the not-too-distant future, even though it seems fine >-->>now. I wonder if it is worth putting this much into a car which will need >-->>substantial further $ right off the bat, and could be a total loss before >-->>too long. >-->> >-->>All input is welcome. >-->> >-->>Greg >-->>Greg Fiorentino >-->>Vancouver USA >-->>gfior-at-dslnorthwest.net >-->> >-->>'84 300D Turbo >-->>'79 300TD >-->>'85 F-350 6.9 crew cab >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) The revolt is underway, you can not stop it. FEAR THE PENGUIN!!!! 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