From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #1137 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Sunday, August 3 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1137 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Saturday, August 2, 2003 - Snohomish, WA disaster averted... Re: Testing tach? Diesel Anti Theft? Re: Diesel Anti Theft? Re: Diesel Anti Theft? Re: Diesel Anti Theft? Re: Diesel Anti Theft? Re: Testing tach? Re: Diesel Anti Theft? Re: Diesel Anti Theft? Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 12:51:30 -0700 From: john Subject: Saturday, August 2, 2003 - Snohomish, WA the 190D is headed south at this moment, he should be back in the bay area by midnight. before Scott left I remembered to take a "group" picture. small image: http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/john-300d-n-scott-190d_.jpg full size image: http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/john-300d-n-scott-190d.jpg enjoyed meeting with you, hope the trip home was safe and economical. :) now, I need to go and replace my ignition lock in my 300D. deja vu all over again, sort of... ;) this time I won't have to cut anything out, I hope. :) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 18:52:10 -0700 From: john Subject: disaster averted... just got back from Phil Smart Mercedes in Seattle... I picked up the new ignition lock this morning and the service manager gave me insight on how to change it. So I got home and wrestled with it for about 30 minutes, no happiness. I called back down to see if I could get in and have it done at the dealer, and an hour before they closed Ed (the service manager) called back from my message and said to come on down. I got there 30 minutes before closing and he reached in a drawer, pulled out a bent wire, and in about three minutes had the lock switched out. :) As he pulled it out it fell apart... man, I was living on borrowed time. :) Asked him how much, he said nothing. I should find out what their hourly rate is because they have a very nice service department, clean, organized and full of nice cars. :) I've always liked this dealership, they're not snooty or unpleasant, if I had to get work done by a dealership or a qualified mechanic, this is the place I'll be heading for. Not happy with the independent's I've resorted to. Of course my opinion may change after having to actually pay for some work. ;) Dave the parts guy had his Unimog (Diesel) in today, took a few pictures of it, will put 'em up later. 7pm, the 190d is probably in Southern Oregon by now. BTW, speaking of fuel economy, first full tank on the 300d, 29.99 mpg... of course the speedo is a bit optimistic maybe 5% or so, will figure it out. Is there any way of changing the speedo gear to correct the wrong tire size used? john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 23:09:55 -0500 From: John Fieber Subject: Re: Testing tach? On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 03:43 PM, Jerome Kaidor wrote: > Kevin Pekarek wrote: >> A diesel doesn't have an ignition source to count pulses, so it does a >> multiplication from a sensor on something else that spins. I don't >> know >> what it counts rotations on, but the "position sensor" might be out of >> whack, > > *** It's a coil thingie mounted to the front of the engine, next to the > vibration dampener. If I remember correctly, it looks like a bolt with > a wire coming out the end. > > I have one I've been meaning to install in my 300D. Because it ( > the > 300D ) doesn't have one. It's because the car is an '85, which comes > with a CPU, which drives the tach. Only my CPU doesn't work, because > the > car was subjected to an engine swap by some unknown PO. The 85 (and California 84) get their tach signal from the flywheel on the BACK of the engine, not from the pulley on front. I don't know if the signals are equivalent. In any case, the signal from the flywheel sensor can be patched directly through to the tach, bypassing the CPU. The CPU in my car died and took the Tach with it. Since the only thing the CPU did (EGR and turbo venting) was non-functional for other reasons, I just pulled it out and jumpered the tach signal in the connector. - -john ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 06:33:19 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Diesel Anti Theft? While I know that Mercedes Diesels are not on the list of top stolen cars I am looking at the possiblity of getting a job in a place that I once worked in downtown Atlanta. I almost lost a Honda Accord there to a professional car theif but the starter kill part of my car alarm foiled the theft of my vehicle. They broke a window punched the ignition and ignored the siren completely. Does anybody know of a good starter kill system that is diesel compatible. Ideally it would be nice to find a system that is compatible with the MB Vacuum locks and would allow me to unlock the car with the remote so at least I would get a feature from the money I shelled out to keep my car around longer :) Or perhaps a remote start system for the car would be another option. If none of these systems exist does anybody have any ideas as to how one could install a hidden switch that would disable the car's being able to start? Robert Chase ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 08:22:58 -0400 From: Mike Frank Subject: Re: Diesel Anti Theft? Put a kill switch on the glow plug relay. You'd have to go to the low voltage side. As to where to hide it. Get a magnetic switch, and attach it to the back of the glove box (behind, so nothing is visible). On the side that's visible, pop rivet a thin steel plate. Simply pop a magnet in the glove box to get things started. Did I ever mention that I hate Atlanta? Mike Frank ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 08:00:45 -0500 From: John Fieber Subject: Re: Diesel Anti Theft? On Sunday, August 3, 2003, at 07:22 AM, Mike Frank wrote: > Put a kill switch on the glow plug relay. You'd have to go to the low > voltage side. In Minnesota in winter, yes, but in Atlanta I'm not sure that would slow a thief down much. And if the engine is warm, it doesn't matter where you live. You either have to (a) keep the engine from turning over or (b) keep fuel out of the engine. - -john ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 09:03:16 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: Diesel Anti Theft? Actually its not too horrible of a city if you observe that your not as safe as you feel at any given moment in time :). Thanks for the idea. I did some looking on Crutchfield.com and it seems that they do have systems that will work with Vacuum locks. I might look into talking to restoration places that have installed alarms on other Mercedes cars before. I know there HAS to be a demand for this because chaining your Gullwing SL to a fire hydrant has to be tiresome after the 2nd or 3rd week :) Although my car is not as valuable as most other Mercedes automobiles having a nopi car driving teenager loose in my car with an electric drill and wire cutters is a horrifying thought! And of course the even more horrifying is some crackhead tearing out of the parking deck with my car. :) Robert Chase Mike Frank wrote: > Put a kill switch on the glow plug relay. You'd have to go to the low > voltage side. > > As to where to hide it. Get a magnetic switch, and attach it to the back > of the glove box (behind, so nothing is visible). On the side that's > visible, pop rivet a thin steel plate. Simply pop a magnet in the glove > box to get things started. > > Did I ever mention that I hate Atlanta? > > Mike Frank ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 08:08:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: Diesel Anti Theft? Robert Chase wrote: > > Does anybody know of a good starter kill system that is diesel > compatible. Ideally it would be nice to find a system that is > compatible with the MB Vacuum locks and would allow me to unlock the car *** Something vacuum based that would prevent the engine kill from unlocking? How about a crossover line from the main vacuum bus to the vacuum kill? You could bring it out to under the dash, and put a brass fishtank air valve to turn it on & off. Or you could use an standard Mercedes electrical switchover valve and run it from a spare switch on the panel. Say the radio antenna switch. You could even have the switch still control the radio antenna, just have this extra function in one of the positions. Of course, since the switchover valve is electrical, you could control it with a keychain remote too. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 09:12:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: Testing tach? John Fieber wrote: > > The 85 (and California 84) get their tach signal from the flywheel on > the BACK of the engine, not from the pulley on front. I don't know if > the signals are equivalent. *** I bet they ain't. If I was going to put a sensor at the flywheel, I'd count pulses off the ring gear. The ring gear has lots of teeth. That means lots of pulses for each revolution. What is there at the front? The timing notch in the pulley. One pulse per revolution. Here's something interesting: how much do you want to bet that the little coil thingie also has a magnet in it? That's because when you put a coil around a magnet, then anything made of steel will cause a pulse just coming & going, because it disturbs the magnetic field of the internal magnet. Way back when, I worked on railroad monitoring equipment, and that's how we sensed the trains going by. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) In any case, the signal from the flywheel > sensor can be patched directly through to the tach, bypassing the CPU. > The CPU in my car died and took the Tach with it. Since the only thing > the CPU did (EGR and turbo venting) was non-functional for other > reasons, I just pulled it out and jumpered the tach signal in the > connector. > > -john ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 11:37:20 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: Diesel Anti Theft? On Sun, Aug 03, 2003 at 06:33:19AM -0400, Robert Chase wrote: > While I know that Mercedes Diesels are not on the list of top stolen > cars I am looking at the possiblity of getting a job in a place that I > once worked in downtown Atlanta. I almost lost a Honda Accord there to > a professional car theif but the starter kill part of my car alarm > foiled the theft of my vehicle. They broke a window punched the > ignition and ignored the siren completely. Two things here - the first is don't compare the easiest (and most popular) car in the states to steal with something considerably more difficult to steal, like a mercedes. Second, look at the resale values. It's not worth a thief's time to go after a w126 diesel that at most is worth $6000, when he can get twice that for a civic or more than twice for an accord (which is also WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY easier to steal). I think the worst thing you have to worry about with your 300SD, as gorgeous as it is, is that some !-at-#$ will decide he wants your stereo more than you do. This is where stock beckers with burnt out LEDs (like my 190D has) come in. :) > Does anybody know of a good starter kill system that is diesel > compatible. Ideally it would be nice to find a system that is > compatible with the MB Vacuum locks and would allow me to unlock the car > with the remote so at least I would get a feature from the money I > shelled out to keep my car around longer :) Or perhaps a remote start > system for the car would be another option. I think if you want either, you'll be home growing it. > If none of these systems exist does anybody have any ideas as to how one > could install a hidden switch that would disable the car's being able to > start? Three methods: - switch on the floorboard that turns off fuel from the tank (use a two tank switch like my jeep has), and the car isn't going much more than a block or two - rig up something to keep the vacuum shutoff switch jammed in the "turn off engine mode" - rig up a button under the dash that must be pushed for the starter to actually receive voltage. Could probably rig up a relay or something. IMHO, it's probably not worth the time to do it, just keep an inexpensive stereo in the car (or use a removable face plate), and there will be far easier cars in your parking lot for someone to steal, like a honda or a jeep cherokee. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 18:35:44 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: Diesel Anti Theft? Yeah, Your probably right on all accounts there. Im just paranoid. Almost loosing a car in the same parking deck makes me want to protect the current car. Its funny you mention way easier to steal. Even my 2002 Accord (which I may have a sale on any day now) has a standard cut key. My w-126 key has an inside cut to it. Although I think it would probably be little match to a giant screwdriver jammed into the ignition. The Accord has one of those key transponder gizmo's which makes it a little more difficult to steal. As for stereos thats one of my reasonings for keeping a stock stereo in there. The flashy boy racer stereos scream steal me steal me and honestly they are not worth the damage and broken glass clean up. Some kind of alarm system with starter kill would not only allow me to be worry free during the day but it would give me some additional functionality such as saving wear and tear on my drivers side door lock :) Robert Chase Kevin Pekarek wrote: > On Sun, Aug 03, 2003 at 06:33:19AM -0400, Robert Chase wrote: > >>While I know that Mercedes Diesels are not on the list of top stolen >>cars I am looking at the possiblity of getting a job in a place that I >>once worked in downtown Atlanta. I almost lost a Honda Accord there to >>a professional car theif but the starter kill part of my car alarm >>foiled the theft of my vehicle. They broke a window punched the >>ignition and ignored the siren completely. > > > Two things here - the first is don't compare the easiest (and most popular) > car in the states to steal with something considerably more difficult to > steal, like a mercedes. Second, look at the resale values. It's not worth a > thief's time to go after a w126 diesel that at most is worth $6000, when he > can get twice that for a civic or more than twice for an accord (which is also > WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY easier to steal). > > I think the worst thing you have to worry about with your 300SD, as gorgeous > as it is, is that some !-at-#$ will decide he wants your stereo more than you > do. This is where stock beckers with burnt out LEDs (like my 190D has) come > in. :) > > >>Does anybody know of a good starter kill system that is diesel >>compatible. Ideally it would be nice to find a system that is >>compatible with the MB Vacuum locks and would allow me to unlock the car >>with the remote so at least I would get a feature from the money I >>shelled out to keep my car around longer :) Or perhaps a remote start >>system for the car would be another option. > > > I think if you want either, you'll be home growing it. > > >>If none of these systems exist does anybody have any ideas as to how one >>could install a hidden switch that would disable the car's being able to >>start? > > > Three methods: > - switch on the floorboard that turns off fuel from the tank (use a two tank > switch like my jeep has), and the car isn't going much more than a block > or two > - rig up something to keep the vacuum shutoff switch jammed in the "turn off > engine mode" > - rig up a button under the dash that must be pushed for the starter to > actually receive voltage. Could probably rig up a relay or something. > > IMHO, it's probably not worth the time to do it, just keep an inexpensive > stereo in the car (or use a removable face plate), and there will be far easier > cars in your parking lot for someone to steal, like a honda or a jeep cherokee. > > K ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1137 **********************************