From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #1145 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Thursday, August 7 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1145 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: Diesel Anti Theft? Re: 300D Breather hose rear fog lamp and drilled/slotted rotors Re: 300D Breather hose RE: Diesel Anti Theft? Re: '91 300D blower motor Re: rear fog lamp and drilled/slotted rotors Re: rear fog lamp and drilled/slotted rotors RE: Diesel Anti Theft? Re: rear fog lamp and drilled/slotted rotors Re: Rube Re: '91 300D blower motor Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 01:56:26 -0500 From: "Richard Arnold" Subject: RE: Diesel Anti Theft? John Wrote: > what I meant to say was that we do not benefit from modern > technology, mainly in the form of reliable connectors > and wiring... dependence on ICs is not desired or implied. :) > > john > I have been away for a few days and I must say this thread has been too funny. My '87 SDL has the dot on the key and the alarm system that has become somewhat annoying, blaring at me when it should not. Whenever I lock the car, I walk around to the passenger side so I don't have to use the key thus arming the thing. A few turns of the key get it to shut up. Robert, if I still lived in Atlanta working downtown, I wouldn't care about that ;) John, I can't resist this; Yuk yuk. The entire car is full of vacuum tubes! No, wait, those are vacuum HOSES. Same difference, clunky operation, easy to understand. Lately, they have been giving me fits though. My rear fogs are an empty socket. The switch pulls out twice, once for the front, once for the rear. Alas. Richard Arnold '87 300 SDL '73 Alfa Spider ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 06:27:02 -0700 From: Greg Fiorentino Subject: Re: 300D Breather hose At 03:01 PM 8/6/03 , Jack Tavares wrote: >There is a breather hose that goes from the top of the valve cover (i think) >to the air filter housing. > >I am worried that there is some problem causing excessive pressure >to blow the hose off. I would guess pressure resulting from bad valve stem seals. Greg Greg Fiorentino Vancouver USA gfior-at-dslnorthwest.net '84 300D Turbo '79 300TD '85 F-350 6.9 crew cab ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 07:25:11 -0700 From: john Subject: rear fog lamp and drilled/slotted rotors At 01:56 AM 8/7/2003 -0500, Richard Arnold wrote: >John, I can't resist this; Yuk yuk. The entire car is full of vacuum >tubes! No, wait, those are vacuum HOSES. Same difference, clunky >operation, easy to understand. Lately, they have been giving me fits >though. I'll avoid the obvious mention involving low pressure... ;) >My rear fogs are an empty socket. The switch pulls out twice, once for >the front, once for the rear. Alas. >Richard Arnold >'87 300 SDL >'73 Alfa Spider everyone of mine have too... but trying to make the rear fog work in any of my Benz has been unsuccessful. so I'm very happy this 300d has it! (and the heated seats! :) At this point there isn't anything on this car I don't like. And the only thing it will need are new brake rotors, thinking of the cross drilled slotted rotors from performance products: http://www.performanceproducts.com/ProductPage.aspx?ProductName=Drilled+and+Slotted+Rotors&productid=102095&producttype=20 I bought a set of slotted rotors for my '99 WJ (grand cherokee) and they worked great, put over 30k on them with no problems, which was the same mileage the jeep had when I bought it, so I know the original rotors didn't go that far. ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 09:34:52 CDT From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: 300D Breather hose > At 03:01 PM 8/6/03 , Jack Tavares wrote: > >There is a breather hose that goes from the top of the valve cover (i think) > >to the air filter housing. > > > >I am worried that there is some problem causing excessive pressure > >to blow the hose off. > > I would guess pressure resulting from bad valve stem seals. > > Greg > > But how would pressure build up in a hose that is open into the air cleaner housing? i like the earlier suggestion about the hose being shaken loose by old motor mounts and air cleaner housing mounts. Once I replaced that hose on my 85 300D with the newer, flatter version, the oil leaks up top were resolved, and the hose never came off by itself. Alec ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 08:48:51 -0600 From: Subject: RE: Diesel Anti Theft? Same thing happened to me in Tanzania, East Africa with an 82 Diesel Suburban (6.2 Liter)...we stopped for a pee break and then couldn't get it started---out in the middle of nowhere (Auto tranny too). We didn't have the right tool with us, so we eventually flagged down a bus a few hours later and borrowed a wrench that enabled us to fix the starter....something to do with the bendex not firing right....I think it was a dirty contact. We decided it was better to always leave it running while in transit. Is it just a viscious rumor that our beloved Diesel benzes don't like to idle for long periods??? What's up with that...first I've heard of it. R, Scott - -----Original Message----- From: Jerome Kaidor [mailto:jerry-at-tr2.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 9:02 AM To: Black, Waylon Cc: 'Jerome Kaidor'; diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: Diesel Anti Theft? Black, Waylon wrote: > > to never shut my car off until I reach my destination - seems like most car > problems occur where the car was shut off and did not restart. I have been > told that MB diesels do not like to be idled for long periods - I don't like > being stranded in Nowhere, USA. *** That almost happened to me once. We were driving down to LA to pick up a motorcycle sidecar rig. I was pulling the trailer with my VW bus. We had pulled up a little hill, and stopped for a potty break. Came back out - the bus wouldn't start. No click, nothing. It wouldn't even start when I slid under it and shorted the starter solenoid with a tool. So we unhooked the trailer and pulled it aside. Luckily, it was a little trailer. I then sat in the bus, put 'er in reverse, coasted back down the hill, and popped the clutch. We hooked the trailer back up, continued on our way, and didn't stop the engine til we were in our motel parking space. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 09:43:39 CDT From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: '91 300D blower motor > if it's anything like the 123 or 126 you could do it in > your tuxedo... > > I have a '91 300d and from what I can tell it's under the pass > side too... I hope... I have the service manual for the > 124 but haven't had time to sort out the relevant Diesel stuff... > > I did it for the 201 chassis. I'd look at the pdf's and > then rename them according to the sections. > > Why is it that German documentation and wiring is so pathetic? :) > > Ich liebe Deutschland, aber nicht das buch. > > john > Sorry, folks. I have repaired the blower motor on a W123 (85 300D) and replaced one on a W124 (89 300CE). I can only advise in the strongest terms to not wear your tux when attempting the procedure on a W124. The blower motor on a W124 is accessed from outside, in front of the windshield. You have to remove the big single wiper and LOTS of trim. You will encounter plastic parts that have become quite brittle with heat and age. I think the book rate to R&R the blower motor is around 4 hours. It is certainly not the 15 minute job (including time to drink a frosty beverage) of a W123. This is why many people, myself included, simply face the music and buy a brand new blower motor when diging into a W124. You may not want to go back in there in a year or two when the replace-the-brushes-and-ATF-the-bearings trick dies. On the plus side, I used the savings of 4 hours of MB-competent mechanic to justify buying a half decent set of tools to do the job myself. At somewhere between 65 and 100 bucks an hour, i was able to spend over a hundred on tools and still "save" 200 or so, which "paid" for the new blower motor. So I think the whole procedure turned out to be free, plus I got a new set of tools. Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 89 300CE, 160K ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 10:12:15 CDT From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: rear fog lamp and drilled/slotted rotors > At this point there isn't anything on this car I don't like. And > the only thing it will need are new brake rotors, thinking of the > cross drilled slotted rotors from performance products: > http://www.performanceproducts.com/ProductPage.aspx? ProductName=Drilled+and+Slotted+Rotors&productid=102095&producttype=20 > > I bought a set of slotted rotors for my '99 WJ (grand cherokee) and > they worked great, put over 30k on them with no problems, which was > the same mileage the jeep had when I bought it, so I know the original > rotors didn't go that far. ;) > > john > I'm not sure I see the benefit of slotted/cross-drilled rotors on the rear on a daily driver. If they are also internally vented, you would need new calipers to fit over them. OEM rear rotors from Rusty for a 91 300D 2.5 turbo are under 25 bucks a piece. He also shows some "Zimmerman Cross Drilled" in that application for $50.34 each if you insist on spending more. Performance Products has good stuff and great, useful catalogs, but their pricing is not outstanding. Alec ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 12:04:23 -0400 From: Mike Frank Subject: Re: rear fog lamp and drilled/slotted rotors John: Drilled slotted rotors are not a good idea, for a lot of good engineering reasons: - Modern brake pads are less prone to outgassing than the old products, there's no need to channel the rotor. If you need to do this, it's just as effective to slot the pad. - Drilling or slotting a rotor ALWAYS weakens it, even if the holes are chamfered or radiussed. I posted some photos on the Jaguar site, just hit the thumbnails to enlarge: http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_view.php3?id=1058712495 http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_view.php3?id=1058744595 - Drilling a rotor reduces thermal mass. While you may think that lighter is better, it's not the case for brake disks. Racers sometimes drill rotors to allow the pads to reach operating temperature more quickly! The only right way to reduce rotor weight is to go to a floating rotor with an aluminum "hat". - Drilling and slotting reduce rotor surface area. This isn't a good thing. - Drilled and slotted rotors can't be resurfaced safely. But the plating is very attractive. Mike Frank At 07:25 AM 8/7/2003 -0700, john wrote: >At this point there isn't anything on this car I don't like. And >the only thing it will need are new brake rotors, thinking of the >cross drilled slotted rotors from performance products: ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 09:34:36 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: Diesel Anti Theft? sticking bendix are a common problem... won't tell all the stories, but a tire iron on the starter usually frees it up... I have noted that prolonged idling on the 190D seemed to run it's temp up. Other Diesels haven't been a problem, and I haven't noticed an issue with the 300d yet (2.5L td). I never had problems with the 220d, 240d, 300d (3.0l), 300sd (3.0l) and it appears the 300d(2.5L) is ok too... no problems with 5.7l/6.2l/ or VW's either... or even my renault 2.1L all aluminum TD in my '85 xj I do like the GM style keys that wear out and allow you to remove them from the ignition when running... not likely to happen with this 300d. ;) john On Thu, 7 Aug 2003 scott_haaland-at-agilent.com wrote: >-->Same thing happened to me in Tanzania, East Africa with an 82 Diesel >-->Suburban (6.2 Liter)...we stopped for a pee break and then couldn't >-->get it started---out in the middle of nowhere (Auto tranny too). >-->We didn't have the right tool with us, so we eventually flagged >-->down a bus a few hours later and borrowed a wrench that enabled >-->us to fix the starter....something to do with the bendex not >-->firing right....I think it was a dirty contact. We decided it >-->was better to always leave it running while in transit. >--> >-->Is it just a viscious rumor that our beloved Diesel benzes don't >-->like to idle for long periods??? What's up with that...first I've >-->heard of it. >--> >-->R, >-->Scott >-->-----Original Message----- >-->From: Jerome Kaidor [mailto:jerry-at-tr2.com] >-->Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 9:02 AM >-->To: Black, Waylon >-->Cc: 'Jerome Kaidor'; diesel-benz-at-digest.net >-->Subject: Re: Diesel Anti Theft? >--> >--> >-->Black, Waylon wrote: >-->> >-->> to never shut my car off until I reach my destination - seems like most car >-->> problems occur where the car was shut off and did not restart. I have been >-->> told that MB diesels do not like to be idled for long periods - I don't >-->like >-->> being stranded in Nowhere, USA. >--> >-->*** That almost happened to me once. We were driving down to LA to pick up >-->a motorcycle sidecar rig. I was pulling the trailer with my VW bus. We had >-->pulled up a little hill, and stopped for a potty break. Came back out - >-->the bus wouldn't start. No click, nothing. It wouldn't even start when I >-->slid under it and shorted the starter solenoid with a tool. >--> >--> So we unhooked the trailer and pulled it aside. Luckily, it was a little >-->trailer. I then sat in the bus, put 'er in reverse, coasted back down the >-->hill, >-->and popped the clutch. We hooked the trailer back up, continued on our way, >-->and didn't stop the engine til we were in our motel parking space. >--> >--> - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) The revolt is underway, you can not stop it. FEAR THE PENGUIN!!!! May the SOURCE be With GNU - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 11:49:28 CDT From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: rear fog lamp and drilled/slotted rotors > John: > > Drilled slotted rotors are not a good idea, for a lot of good > engineering reasons: > > - Modern brake pads are less prone to outgassing than the old > products, there's no need to channel the rotor. If you need to do this, > it's just as effective to slot the pad. > - Drilling or slotting a rotor ALWAYS weakens it, even if the > holes are chamfered or radiussed. I posted some photos on the Jaguar site, > just hit the thumbnails to enlarge: > http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_view.php3?id=1058712495 > http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_view.php3?id=1058744595 > - Drilling a rotor reduces thermal mass. While you may think that > lighter is better, it's not the case for brake disks. Racers sometimes > drill rotors to allow the pads to reach operating temperature more quickly! > The only right way to reduce rotor weight is to go to a floating rotor with > an aluminum "hat". > - Drilling and slotting reduce rotor surface area. This isn't a > good thing. > - Drilled and slotted rotors can't be resurfaced safely. > > But the plating is very attractive. > > Mike Frank > I thought I remembered hearing things like that about slots and holes in rotors. BTW, to bring up a previous brief thread, one other "right" way to reduce rotor weight is to use ceramic instead of metal. It just ain't cheap. Alec ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 11:56:47 -0500 From: DanG Subject: Re: Rube Thanks Jon - the mpg runs fine here, but I still have the swf and will also try to get that working. Uninstall all macromedia, reboot and will do it again, then try install. Thanks Dan ChicagoArea > > http://www.honda.co.uk/multimedia/index.html > > Download "The Cog". It's a "zip" file. Unzip it and run it. > > If that doesn't work, I'll send you the .SWF file. > > Jon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 10:52:52 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: '91 300D blower motor pictures? write up? I'll put it up on my server... put some pix from the perf catalog at: http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/124-series/ john On Thu, 7 Aug 2003 acordova-at-texas.net wrote: >-->> if it's anything like the 123 or 126 you could do it in >-->> your tuxedo... >-->> >-->> I have a '91 300d and from what I can tell it's under the pass >-->> side too... I hope... I have the service manual for the >-->> 124 but haven't had time to sort out the relevant Diesel stuff... >-->> >-->> I did it for the 201 chassis. I'd look at the pdf's and >-->> then rename them according to the sections. >-->> >-->> Why is it that German documentation and wiring is so pathetic? :) >-->> >-->> Ich liebe Deutschland, aber nicht das buch. >-->> >-->> john >-->> >--> >-->Sorry, folks. I have repaired the blower motor on a W123 (85 300D) and replaced >-->one on a W124 (89 300CE). I can only advise in the strongest terms to not wear >-->your tux when attempting the procedure on a W124. >--> >-->The blower motor on a W124 is accessed from outside, in front of the >-->windshield. You have to remove the big single wiper and LOTS of trim. You will >-->encounter plastic parts that have become quite brittle with heat and age. I >-->think the book rate to R&R the blower motor is around 4 hours. It is certainly >-->not the 15 minute job (including time to drink a frosty beverage) of a W123. >--> >-->This is why many people, myself included, simply face the music and buy a brand >-->new blower motor when diging into a W124. You may not want to go back in there >-->in a year or two when the replace-the-brushes-and-ATF-the-bearings trick dies. >--> >-->On the plus side, I used the savings of 4 hours of MB-competent mechanic to >-->justify buying a half decent set of tools to do the job myself. At somewhere >-->between 65 and 100 bucks an hour, i was able to spend over a hundred on tools >-->and still "save" 200 or so, which "paid" for the new blower motor. So I think >-->the whole procedure turned out to be free, plus I got a new set of tools. >--> >-->Alec Cordova >-->Taylor, Texas >-->89 300CE, >-->160K >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) The revolt is underway, you can not stop it. FEAR THE PENGUIN!!!! May the SOURCE be With GNU - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1145 **********************************