From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #1154 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Sunday, August 10 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1154 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: murphy's law...low compression An A/C question tire sizes Re: tire sizes RE: Motor Oils Re: tire sizes Re: topsiders again... Re: tire sizes '99 TD... continued: murphy's law...low compression Re: tire sizes RE: Motor Oils RE: Motor Oils Re: continued: murphy's law...low compression Formula 1 USGP Tickets for sale(little MB content) Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 20:05:11 -0500 From: "Vernon Tuck" Subject: Re: murphy's law...low compression Well, I SEEM to recall that if the difference is within 15% you're not in such bad shape. The main thing is that the values be close to each other. I'm not sure how to interpret "mid to upper 400 psi range" however. Did you adjust the valves before you did this? Vernon - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Morelen" To: Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 6:48 PM Subject: murphy's law...low compression > Hello All- > > I wrote a week or so ago about getting ready to do a compression check on my > '84 300D. Well, I boldly went and did it today. Four cylinders measured > in the mid to upper 400 psi range and the rear-most cylinder only gets up to > about 340 psi. How does one diagnose whether it is a valve/cylinder head > problem or a piston ring problem? > > TIA- > > Steve Morelen > > _________________________________________________________________ > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 21:46:17 -0400 From: Mike Frank Subject: An A/C question I have a problem with the dreaded A/C system on my '87 190DT. It was working fine just yesterday. Today, It's not acting well. There's hot air pouring out of the side vents and defroster, while the center vents are nice and cold. Tomorrow I will need to tackle the 200 pages of gibberish in the manual. Does anyone have any suggestions before I'm lost in this problem? Thanks Mike Frank ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 18:50:31 -0700 From: john Subject: tire sizes have 195/60 R15 sticker on the door calls out 195/65 R15 speedo is off, roughly says 64 mph when doing 60. anyone have the OD difference? thanx, john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 22:01:46 -0400 From: Mike Frank Subject: Re: tire sizes This is what you're looking for: http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html Mike Frank At 06:50 PM 8/9/2003 -0700, john wrote: >have 195/60 R15 > >sticker on the door calls out 195/65 R15 > >speedo is off, roughly says 64 mph when doing 60. > >anyone have the OD difference? > >thanx, >john >------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 19:05:20 -0700 From: Greg Fiorentino Subject: RE: Motor Oils At 05:26 PM 8/9/03 , Mike Frank wrote: >Rumor was that after they acquired Humble Refining, they wanted to keep >the logo, which was a busy bee. The Esso bee didn't quite have the >marketing clout they were looking for.... There was a joke about there was always some Esso Bee (SOB) in every group to ruin things. Greg, also old enough to remember Esso stations. Greg Fiorentino Vancouver USA gfior-at-dslnorthwest.net '84 300D Turbo '79 300TD '85 F-350 6.9 crew cab ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 22:07:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Welty Subject: Re: tire sizes On Sat, 09 Aug 2003 18:50:31 -0700 john wrote: > have 195/60 R15 > sticker on the door calls out 195/65 R15 > speedo is off, roughly says 64 mph when doing 60. > anyone have the OD difference? ftp://ftp.krusty-motorsports.com/Autos/ is an archive of old, mostly obsolete usenet rec.autos stuff. tire-size.c is a tire size calculator in simple, ansi C tire-size.lisp is the same tire size calculator in standard Common Lisp tire-size.xls is a prototype tire size calculator for excel, which keeps its feature use under control (i wrote it in gnumeric, actually, so anything that imports older excel should have no trouble with it.) one of the text files contains tire size tables all printed out, too. tire-size.c gives the following for your tires: $ ./tire-size 195/65R15 195/60R15 Specification Sidewall Radius Diameter Circumference Revs/Mile Difference 195/65-15 5.0in 12.5in 25.0in 78.5in 807 0.0% 195/60-15 4.6in 12.1in 24.2in 76.1in 833 -3.1% $ richard - -- Richard Welty rwelty-at-suespammers.org Averill Park Networking rwelty-at-averillpark.net Unix, Linux, IP Network Engineering, Security rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com 518-573-7592 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 19:13:19 -0700 From: Greg Fiorentino Subject: Re: topsiders again... At 03:16 PM 8/9/03 , john wrote: >talked to another mechanic friend and he reminded me of >the reason the drain plug is at the bottom... then he told >me about another contraption that replaces the drain plug, >a remote control release to drain via a hose to a receptacle, >this gets all the crud out of the pan at the bottom and keeps >me from squeezing under the car... > >will look for one of these... much easier to deal with then >the topsider and gets the nasty stuff out of my pan. I have read that the dipstick tube method gets more dirty oil out than the drain plug in a Benz, and is the method recommended by the factory. Also, that no method removes ALL the dirty oil. I would be concerned about using a gizmo that automatically takes most of the oil out of the engine. I love the topsider. Greg Greg Fiorentino Vancouver USA gfior-at-dslnorthwest.net '84 300D Turbo '79 300TD '85 F-350 6.9 crew cab ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 19:15:43 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: tire sizes that gave me the info... interesting, mine seems to be off more then what they say, so the tires I have may be undersized a bit... they say 3.1% difference, or actual 58.2 vs. 60 registered. will test tomorrow with the GPS. most of the time the GPS is at 60mph, the speedo is around 64mph. that's almost twice the error this page shows. also, it shows the tire width is narrower too... unfortunately I can't cut and paste the text off of the page. :) john At 10:01 PM 8/9/2003 -0400, Mike Frank wrote: >This is what you're looking for: > >http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html > >Mike Frank > >At 06:50 PM 8/9/2003 -0700, john wrote: >>have 195/60 R15 >> >>sticker on the door calls out 195/65 R15 >> >>speedo is off, roughly says 64 mph when doing 60. >> >>anyone have the OD difference? >> >>thanx, >>john >>------------------------------------------------------------------ >> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >> Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >>------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 19:20:25 -0700 From: john Subject: '99 TD... yikes, over $28k... happy to have my '91 300d when I see these kind of prices. :) http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6335&item=2426505419 john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 22:29:02 -0400 From: "Steve Morelen" Subject: continued: murphy's law...low compression I should have listed my measured numbers: 460 440 470 470 340 psi 460 is the front cylinder and 340 is the rear I was poking through my engine manual after my earlier email and saw that MB lists ~ 45 psi (3 bar) as max allowable difference between cylinders. I did not check valves before running the compression test although I am within the allowable mileage since I last adjusted. I think I'll try the oil in the cylinder trick to see if things improve. I also saw a leak test procedure in the engine manual....they recommend that compressed air be applied to the suspect cylinder and then listen in intake manifold , exhaust manifold, etc. to determine where leak is. Seems sensible but has anyone out there seen this technique work? My shop air only goes up to about 130 psi.....I don't know if this is enough to make the leak observable, given that the cylinder can be pressurized to 340 psi by cranking. I would have to do some creative plumbing to get my air compressor attached to the bad cylinder... Thanks for the feedback- Steve Morelen >From: "Vernon Tuck" >To: "Steve Morelen" , >Subject: Re: murphy's law...low compression >Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 20:05:11 -0500 > >Well, I SEEM to recall that if the difference is within 15% you're not in >such bad shape. The main thing is that the values be close to each other. > >I'm not sure how to interpret "mid to upper 400 psi range" however. > >Did you adjust the valves before you did this? > >Vernon >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Steve Morelen" >To: >Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 6:48 PM >Subject: murphy's law...low compression > > > > Hello All- > > > > I wrote a week or so ago about getting ready to do a compression check >on >my > > '84 300D. Well, I boldly went and did it today. Four cylinders >measured > > in the mid to upper 400 psi range and the rear-most cylinder only gets >up >to > > about 340 psi. How does one diagnose whether it is a valve/cylinder >head > > problem or a piston ring problem? > > > > TIA- > > > > Steve Morelen > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 19:31:51 -0700 From: Michael Snow Subject: Re: tire sizes Consider that all of the mathematical tire calculators use *nominal* tire sizes, which may vary considerably from the actual manufactured size of a given tire. Any quality tire manufacturer will provide a revolutions per mile number, measured at a specific speed, on a specific wheel size, as a point of comparison. Consider also the error factor in your GPS unit. Michael Snow 1983 240D john wrote: > that gave me the info... > > interesting, mine seems to be off more then what they > say, so the tires I have may be undersized a bit... > > they say 3.1% difference, or actual 58.2 vs. 60 registered. > > will test tomorrow with the GPS. most of the time the GPS > is at 60mph, the speedo is around 64mph. that's almost twice > the error this page shows. > > also, it shows the tire width is narrower too... unfortunately > I can't cut and paste the text off of the page. :) > > john > > > At 10:01 PM 8/9/2003 -0400, Mike Frank wrote: > >> This is what you're looking for: >> >> http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html >> >> Mike Frank >> >> At 06:50 PM 8/9/2003 -0700, john wrote: >> >>> have 195/60 R15 >>> >>> sticker on the door calls out 195/65 R15 >>> >>> speedo is off, roughly says 64 mph when doing 60. >>> >>> anyone have the OD difference? >>> >>> thanx, >>> john >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >>> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >>> Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 22:34:35 -0400 From: "Steve Morelen" Subject: RE: Motor Oils Speaking of old......does anyone remember the (Esso?) tiger in the tank advertising? .... (seems off-topic....my apologies if offended) Steve Morelen >From: Greg Fiorentino >To: >Subject: RE: Motor Oils >Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 19:05:20 -0700 > >At 05:26 PM 8/9/03 , Mike Frank wrote: >>Rumor was that after they acquired Humble Refining, they wanted to keep >>the logo, which was a busy bee. The Esso bee didn't quite have the >>marketing clout they were looking for.... > >There was a joke about there was always some Esso Bee (SOB) in every group >to ruin things. > >Greg, also old enough to remember Esso stations. > > >Greg Fiorentino >Vancouver USA >gfior-at-dslnorthwest.net > >'84 300D Turbo >'79 300TD >'85 F-350 6.9 crew cab _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 22:44:05 -0400 From: Mike Frank Subject: RE: Motor Oils Yup...but do you remember the old gulf ads about putting a kick in your tank...the dealers would give you two plastic horseshoes to put on your trunk.... Mike Frank At 10:34 PM 8/9/2003 -0400, Steve Morelen wrote: >Speaking of old......does anyone remember the (Esso?) tiger in the tank >advertising? .... >(seems off-topic....my apologies if offended) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 21:26:06 -0500 From: "Vernon Tuck" Subject: Re: continued: murphy's law...low compression Well... If I WERE ME, I'd check the valve adjustment on the dud cylinder, adjust as necessary, THEN do the oil squirt trick. VT - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Morelen" To: Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 9:29 PM Subject: continued: murphy's law...low compression > I should have listed my measured numbers: > 460 440 470 470 340 psi > 460 is the front cylinder and 340 is the rear > > I was poking through my engine manual after my earlier email and saw that MB > lists ~ 45 psi (3 bar) as max allowable difference between cylinders. I did > not check valves before running the compression test although I am within > the allowable mileage since I last adjusted. I think I'll try the oil in > the cylinder trick to see if things improve. I also saw a leak test > procedure in the engine manual....they recommend that compressed air be > applied to the suspect cylinder and then listen in intake manifold , exhaust > manifold, etc. to determine where leak is. Seems sensible but has anyone > out there seen this technique work? My shop air only goes up to about 130 > psi.....I don't know if this is enough to make the leak observable, given > that the cylinder can be pressurized to 340 psi by cranking. I would have > to do some creative plumbing to get my air compressor attached to the bad > cylinder... > > Thanks for the feedback- > > Steve Morelen > > > >From: "Vernon Tuck" > >To: "Steve Morelen" , > >Subject: Re: murphy's law...low compression > >Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 20:05:11 -0500 > > > >Well, I SEEM to recall that if the difference is within 15% you're not in > >such bad shape. The main thing is that the values be close to each other. > > > >I'm not sure how to interpret "mid to upper 400 psi range" however. > > > >Did you adjust the valves before you did this? > > > >Vernon > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Steve Morelen" > >To: > >Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 6:48 PM > >Subject: murphy's law...low compression > > > > > > > Hello All- > > > > > > I wrote a week or so ago about getting ready to do a compression check > >on > >my > > > '84 300D. Well, I boldly went and did it today. Four cylinders > >measured > > > in the mid to upper 400 psi range and the rear-most cylinder only gets > >up > >to > > > about 340 psi. How does one diagnose whether it is a valve/cylinder > >head > > > problem or a piston ring problem? > > > > > > TIA- > > > > > > Steve Morelen > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 22:58:53 -0500 From: "Chuck Galloway" Subject: Formula 1 USGP Tickets for sale(little MB content) I have one or two tickets for the USGP for sale. The race is Sept 28, 1pm EST. The seats are in Stand J, Section 01, 28 rows up, on the aisle, seats one and two. You are at the end of the front straight, just in front of the first curves. Much of the passing is at this corner. You can see the cars exit the pits, come down the front straight and brake for the first curve at a phenominal rate. Video screens are visible for other parts of the track but you can see much of the road course part of the track. If you haven't been to an F1 race you will be amazed at the sound, the speed and the braking ability of the cars. TV doesn't come close to capturing it. If you want to see where the seats are in relation to the track go to http://www.indianapolismotorspeedway.com/trackmap/images/03IMSTrackMapLRG.jpg The seats are toward the right(south) side of stand J and high enough so you can see over the wall. This is the next to last race of the year so the championship may be decided at this race. Tickets are $85 each - face value. You can buy just one but you may end up sitting next to me, always that chance. If you want to go to practice($10) or qualifying($20)(Friday and Saturday), you can buy those tickets at the track. They are general admission, no reserved seats. NEW THIS YEAR Race day ticket holders for the 2003 United States Grand Prix can get an up-close look at one of the most exclusive places in motorsports  the Formula One pits  during a pit walkabout Thursday, Sept. 25 at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. The walkabout takes place from 8 a.m.-noon (EST, Indy time) and is available for free to all ticket holders for the 2003 United States Grand Prix. This is one of the very few fan walkabouts available on the 16-event, global F1 schedule in 2003. For more info go to http://www.usgpindy.com/press/story.php?story_id=1789 There are also support races, Mercedes corporate tent with cars, key chains, caps, flags, shirts,(although strangely nothing with a diesel motif), same for BMW. A lot to see and do besides the race. Any questions. let me know. If you want a second opinion about the race or the seats, ask Hazen Arnold - he sat there last year. Chuck Galloway '87 300SDL 194k '92 300E 61k _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1154 **********************************