From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #1155 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Sunday, August 10 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1155 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: continued: murphy's law...low compression RE: original price of '91 300d 2.5l? RE: continued: murphy's law...low compression RE: Motor Oils Re: tire sizes RE: Motor Oils Re: tire sizes RE: continued: murphy's law...low compression Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 23:10:43 -0500 From: "Sam Williams" <1sam-at-io.com> Subject: RE: continued: murphy's law...low compression Steve, I think I'd follow Vernon's advice but maybe skip the squirt of oil in the cylinder part. Diesels often fire any oil in the cylinder when they compress the air enough. That might be hard on your compression tester. Sam - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Vernon Tuck Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 9:26 PM To: Steve Morelen; diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: Re: continued: murphy's law...low compression Well... If I WERE ME, I'd check the valve adjustment on the dud cylinder, adjust as necessary, THEN do the oil squirt trick. VT - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Morelen" To: Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 9:29 PM Subject: continued: murphy's law...low compression > I should have listed my measured numbers: > 460 440 470 470 340 psi > 460 is the front cylinder and 340 is the rear > > I was poking through my engine manual after my earlier email and saw that MB > lists ~ 45 psi (3 bar) as max allowable difference between cylinders. I did > not check valves before running the compression test although I am within > the allowable mileage since I last adjusted. I think I'll try the oil in > the cylinder trick to see if things improve. I also saw a leak test > procedure in the engine manual....they recommend that compressed air be > applied to the suspect cylinder and then listen in intake manifold , exhaust > manifold, etc. to determine where leak is. Seems sensible but has anyone > out there seen this technique work? My shop air only goes up to about 130 > psi.....I don't know if this is enough to make the leak observable, given > that the cylinder can be pressurized to 340 psi by cranking. I would have > to do some creative plumbing to get my air compressor attached to the bad > cylinder... > > Thanks for the feedback- > > Steve Morelen > > > >From: "Vernon Tuck" > >To: "Steve Morelen" , > >Subject: Re: murphy's law...low compression > >Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 20:05:11 -0500 > > > >Well, I SEEM to recall that if the difference is within 15% you're not in > >such bad shape. The main thing is that the values be close to each other. > > > >I'm not sure how to interpret "mid to upper 400 psi range" however. > > > >Did you adjust the valves before you did this? > > > >Vernon > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Steve Morelen" > >To: > >Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 6:48 PM > >Subject: murphy's law...low compression > > > > > > > Hello All- > > > > > > I wrote a week or so ago about getting ready to do a compression check > >on > >my > > > '84 300D. Well, I boldly went and did it today. Four cylinders > >measured > > > in the mid to upper 400 psi range and the rear-most cylinder only gets > >up > >to > > > about 340 psi. How does one diagnose whether it is a valve/cylinder > >head > > > problem or a piston ring problem? > > > > > > TIA- > > > > > > Steve Morelen > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 21:44:00 -0700 From: john Subject: RE: original price of '91 300d 2.5l? the car started in IL, then WI, then CO, then NV, then up here... :) our titles don't show the original price in WA. john At 09:21 PM 8/9/2003 -0700, Jeremy Bowne wrote: >Should also say it on the title of the car. > >At least it does in Arizona ;) > >Jeremy > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On >Behalf Of john >Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 3:09 PM >To: Rick Orr >Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >Subject: Re: original price of '91 300d 2.5l? > >$41,350 says an old Kelley Blue Book from >Dec '96 I forgot I had... no info on accessories though... > >surfing ebay on and off looking for a brochure from '91, >if y'all see one on ebay shoot me the link. :) > >john > >At 02:29 PM 8/9/2003 -0700, Rick Orr wrote: > >Hi John, > >I don't have the price for a '91 but my "Standard Catalog of Imported Cars > >- 1946-1990" lists the 1990 300D 2.5 -at- $39700 POE. > >HTH. > > later, > > rick > >------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 21:46:22 -0700 From: john Subject: RE: continued: murphy's law...low compression good point... I've never had the nerve (or tester) to test a Diesel. ;) Only gas engines... and when they ain't got a spark plug they don't do much... ;) john At 11:10 PM 8/9/2003 -0500, Sam Williams wrote: >Steve, > >I think I'd follow Vernon's advice but maybe skip the squirt of oil >in the cylinder part. Diesels often fire any oil in the cylinder >when they compress the air enough. That might be hard on your >compression tester. > >Sam > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On >Behalf Of Vernon Tuck >Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 9:26 PM >To: Steve Morelen; diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net >Subject: Re: continued: murphy's law...low compression > >Well... If I WERE ME, I'd check the valve adjustment on the dud >cylinder, adjust as necessary, THEN do the oil squirt trick. > >VT >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Steve Morelen" >To: >Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 9:29 PM >Subject: continued: murphy's law...low compression > > > > I should have listed my measured numbers: > > 460 440 470 470 340 psi > > 460 is the front cylinder and 340 is the rear > > > > I was poking through my engine manual after my earlier email and saw that >MB > > lists ~ 45 psi (3 bar) as max allowable difference between cylinders. I >did > > not check valves before running the compression test although I am within > > the allowable mileage since I last adjusted. I think I'll try the oil in > > the cylinder trick to see if things improve. I also saw a leak test > > procedure in the engine manual....they recommend that compressed air be > > applied to the suspect cylinder and then listen in intake manifold , >exhaust > > manifold, etc. to determine where leak is. Seems sensible but has anyone > > out there seen this technique work? My shop air only goes up to about 130 > > psi.....I don't know if this is enough to make the leak observable, given > > that the cylinder can be pressurized to 340 psi by cranking. I would have > > to do some creative plumbing to get my air compressor attached to the bad > > cylinder... > > > > Thanks for the feedback- > > > > Steve Morelen > > > > > > >From: "Vernon Tuck" > > >To: "Steve Morelen" , > > > >Subject: Re: murphy's law...low compression > > >Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 20:05:11 -0500 > > > > > >Well, I SEEM to recall that if the difference is within 15% you're not in > > >such bad shape. The main thing is that the values be close to each >other. > > > > > >I'm not sure how to interpret "mid to upper 400 psi range" however. > > > > > >Did you adjust the valves before you did this? > > > > > >Vernon > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Steve Morelen" > > >To: > > >Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 6:48 PM > > >Subject: murphy's law...low compression > > > > > > > > > > Hello All- > > > > > > > > I wrote a week or so ago about getting ready to do a compression check > > >on > > >my > > > > '84 300D. Well, I boldly went and did it today. Four cylinders > > >measured > > > > in the mid to upper 400 psi range and the rear-most cylinder only gets > > >up > > >to > > > > about 340 psi. How does one diagnose whether it is a valve/cylinder > > >head > > > > problem or a piston ring problem? > > > > > > > > TIA- > > > > > > > > Steve Morelen > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 21:48:17 -0700 From: john Subject: RE: Motor Oils was that Esso??? I remember those ads... Even had one of those tail things... reminds me of the intro of the '67 Cougar... :) I wish two things: 1) that they didn't salt the roads in Illinois, and if 1) were true, then 2) that I wouldn't have gotten rid of my '68 Mustang that we bought new in '68... john At 10:34 PM 8/9/2003 -0400, Steve Morelen wrote: >Speaking of old......does anyone remember the (Esso?) tiger in the tank >advertising? .... >(seems off-topic....my apologies if offended) > >Steve Morelen > > >>From: Greg Fiorentino >>To: >>Subject: RE: Motor Oils >>Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 19:05:20 -0700 >> >>At 05:26 PM 8/9/03 , Mike Frank wrote: >>>Rumor was that after they acquired Humble Refining, they wanted to keep >>>the logo, which was a busy bee. The Esso bee didn't quite have the >>>marketing clout they were looking for.... >> >>There was a joke about there was always some Esso Bee (SOB) in every >>group to ruin things. >> >>Greg, also old enough to remember Esso stations. >> >> >>Greg Fiorentino >>Vancouver USA >>gfior-at-dslnorthwest.net >> >>'84 300D Turbo >>'79 300TD >>'85 F-350 6.9 crew cab > >_________________________________________________________________ >Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 21:51:43 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: tire sizes the GPS is right on, it's a newer one and I've tested it repeatedly against radar units on the side of the road and with the odometer/speedos of known good vehicles. I trust it more then my math skills. ;) john At 07:31 PM 8/9/2003 -0700, Michael Snow wrote: >Consider that all of the mathematical tire calculators use *nominal* tire >sizes, which may vary considerably from the actual manufactured size of a >given tire. Any quality tire manufacturer will provide a revolutions per >mile number, measured at a specific speed, on a specific wheel size, as a >point of comparison. Consider also the error factor in your GPS unit. > >Michael Snow >1983 240D > > >john wrote: >>that gave me the info... >>interesting, mine seems to be off more then what they >>say, so the tires I have may be undersized a bit... >>they say 3.1% difference, or actual 58.2 vs. 60 registered. >>will test tomorrow with the GPS. most of the time the GPS >>is at 60mph, the speedo is around 64mph. that's almost twice >>the error this page shows. >>also, it shows the tire width is narrower too... unfortunately >>I can't cut and paste the text off of the page. :) >>john >> >>At 10:01 PM 8/9/2003 -0400, Mike Frank wrote: >> >>>This is what you're looking for: >>> >>>http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html >>> >>>Mike Frank >>> >>>At 06:50 PM 8/9/2003 -0700, john wrote: >>> >>>>have 195/60 R15 >>>> >>>>sticker on the door calls out 195/65 R15 >>>> >>>>speedo is off, roughly says 64 mph when doing 60. >>>> >>>>anyone have the OD difference? >>>> >>>>thanx, >>>>john >>>>------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >>>> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >>>> Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >>>>------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------ >> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >> Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >>------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 21:50:14 -0700 From: john Subject: RE: Motor Oils they had the variable octane at the pump... or was that the 76? remember the gas wars? :) then the oil embargo... :( and then the cursed 55 mph speed limit... (of course I moved to Germany shortly after that and got to enjoy the Autobahn for about 5 years. :) john At 10:44 PM 8/9/2003 -0400, Mike Frank wrote: >Yup...but do you remember the old gulf ads about putting a kick in your >tank...the dealers would give you two plastic horseshoes to put on your >trunk.... > >Mike Frank > >At 10:34 PM 8/9/2003 -0400, Steve Morelen wrote: >>Speaking of old......does anyone remember the (Esso?) tiger in the tank >>advertising? .... >>(seems off-topic....my apologies if offended) - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 22:21:14 -0700 From: Michael Snow Subject: Re: tire sizes With GPS, as with most things, there is no such thing as "right on". Maybe "very close" or "more accurate than the mechanical speedometer in the dash" but not the ultimate in accuracy by any means. Here's a link to some good info on the changing state of GPS accuracy. I'll leave it up to you to figure out if the accuracy of measured distance is greater with the GPS or using plain old math on the tire diameter and gear ratios. My bet is on the math. If you're thinking I'm a little too deep in the weeds on this one, maybe you're right. I use GPS systems a lot and often see variances in excess of 10 meters in the identification of a single point. If I were trying to accurately calibrate my speedometer, I'd take it to a speedometer shop with a chassis dynamometer. Michael Snow 1983 240D john wrote: > the GPS is right on, it's a newer one and I've tested it > repeatedly against radar units on the side of the road > and with the odometer/speedos of known good vehicles. I > trust it more then my math skills. ;) > > john ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 22:49:49 -0700 From: "Derickam AA" Subject: RE: continued: murphy's law...low compression Done it, never was an issue, but it was 20 degrees F outside with cold iron doing it. Do not know if I would attempt it with the warm weather and a warm block. The rings were worn too. hmmmmm..... Derick Amburgey Automated Control Specialist Port Of Seattle/SeaTac Airport/Satellite Train System Amateur Radio Callsign: K7DXX List "Mom" of Diesel-Benz reflector 1985 Mercedes 190D "Tuti" 280,000 Mi (36 mpg) 1984 Mercedes 190D "Charity" 160,000 Mi (in rehab) 1981 Volkswagen Caddy 1.6L 66,000 Mi (50 mpg) - ----Original Message Follows---- From: john To: "Sam Williams" <1sam-at-io.com>, "'Vernon Tuck'" , "'Steve Morelen'" , Subject: RE: continued: murphy's law...low compression Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 21:46:22 -0700 good point... I've never had the nerve (or tester) to test a Diesel. ;) Only gas engines... and when they ain't got a spark plug they don't do much... ;) john At 11:10 PM 8/9/2003 -0500, Sam Williams wrote: >Steve, > >I think I'd follow Vernon's advice but maybe skip the squirt of oil >in the cylinder part. Diesels often fire any oil in the cylinder >when they compress the air enough. That might be hard on your >compression tester. > >Sam > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On >Behalf Of Vernon Tuck >Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 9:26 PM >To: Steve Morelen; diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net >Subject: Re: continued: murphy's law...low compression > >Well... If I WERE ME, I'd check the valve adjustment on the dud >cylinder, adjust as necessary, THEN do the oil squirt trick. > >VT >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Steve Morelen" >To: >Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 9:29 PM >Subject: continued: murphy's law...low compression > > > > I should have listed my measured numbers: > > 460 440 470 470 340 psi > > 460 is the front cylinder and 340 is the rear > > > > I was poking through my engine manual after my earlier email and saw >that >MB > > lists ~ 45 psi (3 bar) as max allowable difference between cylinders. I >did > > not check valves before running the compression test although I am >within > > the allowable mileage since I last adjusted. I think I'll try the oil >in > > the cylinder trick to see if things improve. I also saw a leak test > > procedure in the engine manual....they recommend that compressed air be > > applied to the suspect cylinder and then listen in intake manifold , >exhaust > > manifold, etc. to determine where leak is. Seems sensible but has >anyone > > out there seen this technique work? My shop air only goes up to about >130 > > psi.....I don't know if this is enough to make the leak observable, >given > > that the cylinder can be pressurized to 340 psi by cranking. I would >have > > to do some creative plumbing to get my air compressor attached to the >bad > > cylinder... > > > > Thanks for the feedback- > > > > Steve Morelen > > > > > > >From: "Vernon Tuck" > > >To: "Steve Morelen" , > > > >Subject: Re: murphy's law...low compression > > >Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 20:05:11 -0500 > > > > > >Well, I SEEM to recall that if the difference is within 15% you're not >in > > >such bad shape. The main thing is that the values be close to each >other. > > > > > >I'm not sure how to interpret "mid to upper 400 psi range" however. > > > > > >Did you adjust the valves before you did this? > > > > > >Vernon > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Steve Morelen" > > >To: > > >Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 6:48 PM > > >Subject: murphy's law...low compression > > > > > > > > > > Hello All- > > > > > > > > I wrote a week or so ago about getting ready to do a compression >check > > >on > > >my > > > > '84 300D. Well, I boldly went and did it today. Four cylinders > > >measured > > > > in the mid to upper 400 psi range and the rear-most cylinder only >gets > > >up > > >to > > > > about 340 psi. How does one diagnose whether it is a valve/cylinder > > >head > > > > problem or a piston ring problem? > > > > > > > > TIA- > > > > > > > > Steve Morelen > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. 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