From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #1158 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Monday, August 11 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1158 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: State of the W123 Union Re: tire sizes EGT gauge install question the fuel container Re: '99 TD... Re: EGT gauge install question Re: '99 TD... Re: '99 TD... Re: EGT gauge install question Re: '99 TD... Re: ESSO Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 18:28:12 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: State of the W123 Union listen to what the mechanic recommends as it'll be based on the type of rings he used. typical is to take it easy for the first 100 to 500 miles but vary the speed, don't hold it at one rpm for very long, and then driving it as normal after that. oil change at 500mph, then 1 to 2k, then you could even switch it to a synthethic if you're sure it's broken in... I'd wait until I had about 10k on the clock before switching so you know everything is seated. john At 08:19 PM 8/10/2003 +0100, Renaud OLGIATI wrote: >The car will come out next week from its refit. > >The following were changed: > > > pistons, sleeves and rings, the main and con rod bearings, valves and valve > > guides, chain and tensionner, and the pump and injectors are out for > > cleaning and callibration; > > > Oh yes, the gearbox is open, new bands are on the way and the B1 and B2 > > cylinders looked at. > >Any advice on the running in needed after such a job ? > >What speed not to exceed on what gears, for how many kilometres ? > >Any special change of oil, filter, etc ? > >TIA, > >Cheers, > >Ron, on the banks of the Paraguay River > >-- > The sad thing about Windows bashing > is that it's all true. > > -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 18:29:08 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: tire sizes At 12:46 PM 8/10/2003 -0400, Robert Chase wrote: >Hmmm, > >What's with the need for really accurate speed readings? You guys have >anal retentive cops there or something? > >Robert Chase nah, I just like knowing that when I say I'm getting 29.9mpg that it's an accurate reading... cops aren't going to bother me because I usually do the limit via the cruise control. :) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 21:37:27 -0400 From: "J.B. Hebert" Subject: EGT gauge install question So I'm getting ready to install boost, oil temp, and EGT gauges in my '82 300CD so I can get some baseline readings before I start modifying and tuning the motor. The general rule of thumb for an EGT gauge is that you want to monitor the hottest cylinder on the engine. Of course, there's not much info on performance tuning the OM617, so I can't seem to find info regarding which cylinder(s) run hotter than others. Anyone on the list have any info for me? Thanks in advance. J.B. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 18:41:05 -0700 From: john Subject: the fuel container bought this over in Germany in the '70's... :) http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/91-300d-2.5L/Aug9-2003/esso.jpg john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 21:53:41 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: '99 TD... John, Maybach's have always been the "ultimate" in german luxury. The car is fast hand built and exclusive. Your unlikely to ever see another driving in traffic. Its not a production vehicle rather a hand built custom car built to your needs and specifications. The ability to own a one of a kind vehicle is worth the money to a lot of people. Robert Chase john wrote: > At 12:54 PM 8/10/2003 -0400, Robert Chase wrote: > >> Hmmm, >> >> Whell yes a Maybach. The Rolls Royce/Bentley killer. > > > so, what's so special about the Maybach that someone would > pay that much for one? > > If it's speed I could make a nice car go that fast for > a lot less. :) > > john > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 18:58:01 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: EGT gauge install question why would one cylinder on an inline motor run hotter then others? the 3.0L TD employs exhaust runners from each cylinder, the intakes are separate... the cooling system might be the only issue, but on an inline motor I don't see where that could be an issue... the only other variable might be the oil system... where does the oilpump live? on the 4.2/4.0L I-6's that Jeep makes #1 seems to have a few issues with oiling... maybe because of the G forces on acceleration. ;) I know on some of the AMC v8's the back cylinders run at different temps, I think they run richer in the back, the plugs back there would foul sooner, but on a Diesel I don't think we're dealing with the same issues... See if you can get one of those infrared thermometers and take readings and see if there are any differences. Would be cool to learn about your tuning this motor. I've known some guys that have done this process with a Cummins TD. They used a pyrometer by the turbo along with a boost gauge to dial things in. I would think any Diesel shop that rebuilds pumps and injectors would have some great insight on this process. john At 09:37 PM 8/10/2003 -0400, J.B. Hebert wrote: >So I'm getting ready to install boost, oil temp, and EGT gauges in my '82 >300CD so I can get some baseline readings before I start modifying and >tuning the motor. The general rule of thumb for an EGT gauge is that you >want to monitor the hottest cylinder on the engine. Of course, there's >not much info on performance tuning the OM617, so I can't seem to find >info regarding which cylinder(s) run hotter than others. Anyone on the >list have any info for me? > >Thanks in advance. > >J.B. - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 19:07:46 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: '99 TD... At 09:53 PM 8/10/2003 -0400, Robert Chase wrote: >John, >Maybach's have always been the "ultimate" in german luxury. The car is >fast hand built and exclusive. Your unlikely to ever see another driving >in traffic. Its not a production vehicle rather a hand built custom car >built to your needs and specifications. The ability to own a one of a >kind vehicle is worth the money to a lot of people. So, this is kind of a "custom" vehicle for the people without the mechanical skills, or time, to build their own? ;) My '83 J10 stepside will be done hopefully by Thanksgiving... it's getting a full frame off restoration with a custom driveline, extended cab and a number of other enhancements... will even have a driver's side airbag, electric locking rear differential, full time 4wd, dual tanks, cruise, tilt, heated leather seats, am/fm/sw cassette with cd changer, dual cb's, and so on... matching J10 trailer with hydraulic dump... been working on the project since '99. A friend with more skills then me decided to take the project on... of course he's about two years late on the project. If I had more money I'd consider using a different driveline, but at this point the '96 4.0L / AW4 / NP219 setup appears to be the best overall for economy, performance, durability and parts availability. With 4.10 gears and 235's it should move the 4,200lbs of truck around smoothly and with the .74 OD should easily cruise the interstates at 70 to 75 mph while giving reasonable economy. The entire cab will be soundproofed and insulated, 2" body lift allows for a tilt forward hood section for access. Dual batteries under the cab floor, custom nerf bars, factory brush guard with modifications to protect the front end... I have no idea how much I've spent so far... I'm thinking that it isn't too bad as most of the parts I've acquired were from vehicles I bought, parted and sold off other parts. My friend's labor is covered by him keeping a very rare '67 J-100 panel... something I'm having trouble giving up, but what am I going to do with it? ;) It needs a body man with his skills to make it right. Anyway, I'm very happy to have the '91 300D, it's clean, working, needs nothing (other then the right size tires and a CD player, and those aren't really needs. ;) john >Robert Chase > >john wrote: >>At 12:54 PM 8/10/2003 -0400, Robert Chase wrote: >> >>>Hmmm, >>> >>>Whell yes a Maybach. The Rolls Royce/Bentley killer. >> >>so, what's so special about the Maybach that someone would >>pay that much for one? >>If it's speed I could make a nice car go that fast for >>a lot less. :) >>john >>------------------------------------------------------------------ >> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >> Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >>------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 22:11:04 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: '99 TD... Hmmm, I guess that's a way of thinking about it. I dont think I could build a vehicle like that in my spare time :). Lots of expensive thoughtful engineering goes into the Maybach. It makes even a fully loaded S class look like the poor stepchild :) Robert. john wrote: > At 09:53 PM 8/10/2003 -0400, Robert Chase wrote: > >> John, >> Maybach's have always been the "ultimate" in german luxury. The car >> is fast hand built and exclusive. Your unlikely to ever see another >> driving in traffic. Its not a production vehicle rather a hand built >> custom car built to your needs and specifications. The ability to own >> a one of a kind vehicle is worth the money to a lot of people. > > > > So, this is kind of a "custom" vehicle for the people without the > mechanical skills, or time, to build their own? ;) > > My '83 J10 stepside will be done hopefully by Thanksgiving... it's > getting a full frame off restoration with a custom driveline, extended > cab and a number of other enhancements... will even have a driver's side > airbag, electric locking rear differential, full time 4wd, dual tanks, > cruise, tilt, heated leather seats, am/fm/sw cassette with cd changer, > dual cb's, and so on... matching J10 trailer with hydraulic dump... been > working on the project since '99. A friend with more skills then me > decided to take the project on... of course he's about two years late > on the project. > > If I had more money I'd consider using a different driveline, but > at this point the '96 4.0L / AW4 / NP219 setup appears to be the > best overall for economy, performance, durability and parts availability. > With 4.10 gears and 235's it should move the 4,200lbs of truck around > smoothly and with the .74 OD should easily cruise the interstates > at 70 to 75 mph while giving reasonable economy. > > The entire cab will be soundproofed and insulated, 2" body lift allows > for a tilt forward hood section for access. Dual batteries under > the cab floor, custom nerf bars, factory brush guard with modifications > to protect the front end... > > I have no idea how much I've spent so far... I'm thinking that it > isn't too bad as most of the parts I've acquired were from vehicles > I bought, parted and sold off other parts. My friend's labor is > covered by him keeping a very rare '67 J-100 panel... something I'm > having trouble giving up, but what am I going to do with it? ;) It > needs a body man with his skills to make it right. > > Anyway, I'm very happy to have the '91 300D, it's clean, working, > needs nothing (other then the right size tires and a CD player, and those > aren't really needs. ;) > > john > > > >> Robert Chase >> >> john wrote: >> >>> At 12:54 PM 8/10/2003 -0400, Robert Chase wrote: >>> >>>> Hmmm, >>>> >>>> Whell yes a Maybach. The Rolls Royce/Bentley killer. >>> >>> >>> so, what's so special about the Maybach that someone would >>> pay that much for one? >>> If it's speed I could make a nice car go that fast for >>> a lot less. :) >>> john >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >>> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >>> Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 22:13:43 -0400 From: "J.B. Hebert" Subject: Re: EGT gauge install question I've never seen a motor that doesn't have one or more cylinders that run hot. The path the water takes through the jacket is the biggest factor... usually the last cylinder to get the water runs the hottest because it gets the water last, when it's already cooled the other cylinders and is, therefore, hotter itself. The inline 6 in the XJ is relatively infamous for this. ;) Anyway, the thermometer makes sense... I'll have to track one down or convince myself that I need another tool. I'll keep everyone posted on my progress. I've tuned other diesels, and the theory is the same. Just gotta apply it to the Benz. J.B. At 06:58 PM 8/10/2003 -0700, you wrote: >why would one cylinder on an inline motor run hotter then >others? the 3.0L TD employs exhaust runners from each cylinder, >the intakes are separate... the cooling system might be the only >issue, but on an inline motor I don't see where that could be >an issue... the only other variable might be the oil system... where >does the oilpump live? > >on the 4.2/4.0L I-6's that Jeep makes #1 seems to have a few >issues with oiling... maybe because of the G forces on acceleration. ;) > >I know on some of the AMC v8's the back cylinders run at different >temps, I think they run richer in the back, the plugs back there >would foul sooner, but on a Diesel I don't think we're dealing with >the same issues... > >See if you can get one of those infrared thermometers and take readings >and see if there are any differences. > >Would be cool to learn about your tuning this motor. I've known >some guys that have done this process with a Cummins TD. They used >a pyrometer by the turbo along with a boost gauge to dial things in. >I would think any Diesel shop that rebuilds pumps and injectors would >have some great insight on this process. > >john > >At 09:37 PM 8/10/2003 -0400, J.B. Hebert wrote: >>So I'm getting ready to install boost, oil temp, and EGT gauges in my '82 >>300CD so I can get some baseline readings before I start modifying and >>tuning the motor. The general rule of thumb for an EGT gauge is that you >>want to monitor the hottest cylinder on the engine. Of course, there's >>not much info on performance tuning the OM617, so I can't seem to find >>info regarding which cylinder(s) run hotter than others. Anyone on the >>list have any info for me? >> >>Thanks in advance. >> >>J.B. > >------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 19:13:32 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: '99 TD... At 10:11 PM 8/10/2003 -0400, Robert Chase wrote: >To: john >CC: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >Subject: Re: '99 TD... > >Hmmm, >I guess that's a way of thinking about it. I dont think I could build a >vehicle like that in my spare time :). Lots of expensive thoughtful >engineering goes into the Maybach. It makes even a fully loaded S class >look like the poor stepchild :) >Robert. yeah, but there is only so much you can pack into a car that size. :) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 19:14:42 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: ESSO you really ought to consider synthetics for the cold weather... john At 11:17 AM 8/10/2003 -0400, Rajeev Wijesinghe wrote: >Wow. I have learned some interesting facts about the history of Esso/Exxon >through you guys. Here in Canada, just a wee bit north of you, Esso is HUGE!! >Their fuel stations are everywhere, and their oil is sold in many department >stores. It's actually the only brand of oil I've seen at grocery stores! > >When I first got my 300 SD, I remember the mechanic I first visited (for an >oil change) using Esso oil. All I remember is that my cold starts became NONE >(around 30 degrees Fareheit or colder, unless I plugged the block heater in) >and that after about 2000 km, the dipstick showed up BLACK. At 3000 km, when >I changed the oil, it came out like TAR!!! > >I stuck with Quaker State from then on, and it gave me much better results. > >Cheers, >Rajeev Wijesinghe > > >Rajeev L. Wijesinghe ======================================= >Don't quit when the tide is lowest, >For it's just about to turn; >Don't Quit over doubts and questions, >For there's something you may learn. >Don't quit when the night is darkest, >For it's just a while 'til dawn; >Don't quit when you've run the farthest, >For the race is almost won. >Don't quit when the hill is steepest, >For your goal is almost nigh; >Don't quit, for you're not a failure >Until you fail to try. >-Jill Wolf - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1158 **********************************