From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #1159 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Monday, August 11 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1159 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: 190D A/C problem RE: '99 TD... Re: '99 TD... tire opinions sought... Re: EGT gauge install question Re: EGT gauge install question Re: EGT gauge install question RE: State of the W123 Union Re: tire opinions sought... Re: tire opinions sought... Re: murphy's law...low compression yokohamas Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 19:21:22 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: 190D A/C problem do you have the shop manual CD? the pdf's that cover that are quite large but I could try to email the one in particular... john At 01:30 PM 8/10/2003 -0400, Mike Frank wrote: >I don't have a vacuum pump, just a gauge. In a 201, there are two vacuum >sources: a pump under the rear seat, and a pump on the motor. Everything >other than A/C is working fine: tranny shifts well , doors lock, motor >stops fine. Everywhere I check under the hood, I have vacuum. Around the >air controls, nothing. All the fuses are OK. I suppose it could be the >pushbutton unit, but I have no spare to test. Somewhere in between there >has to be a leak, or a valve not releasing, but where? Is there a vacuum >diagram for these things? It wouldn't be so hard if I understood where >everything was going. > >If it goes anywhere, it'll probably be a dealer...this system is too >complicated for the corner shop. > >Mike Frank > >At 01:16 PM 8/10/2003 -0400, you wrote: >>Just be sure to bring it to a Mercedes specialist. The last thing you >>want is some under informed grease monkey under your dash making the >>problem worse and subsequentially more expensive when you bring it to the >>experts. >> >>What have you checked so far? Im assuming that you have a vacuum >>pump. It could be anything within that system. Control Module, Vacuum >>lines pretty much anything. Do you have anything else that's Vacuum >>operated thats not working? If your central locking and engine shut down >>features dont work you might have a leak or a bad Vacuum pump. When my >>car stopped shutting off by itself I was certain I had a transmission >>problem too. When the repair was completed my Transmission shifted >>fine. One of my main Vacuum lines was leaking and the transmission uses >>Vacuum to determine the harshness of the shift. - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 21:42:51 -0500 From: "Richard Arnold" Subject: RE: '99 TD... > > At 09:53 PM 8/10/2003 -0400, Robert Chase wrote: > > > >> John, > >> Maybach's have always been the "ultimate" in german luxury. The car > >> is fast hand built and exclusive. Your unlikely to ever see another > >> driving in traffic. Its not a production vehicle rather a hand built > >> custom car built to your needs and specifications. The ability to own > >> a one of a kind vehicle is worth the money to a lot of people. What must also be considered is that for these people, the purchase of a Maybach represents much less a percentage of their annual income than the average Honda buyer who spends $28,000. That is to say, if I made $1.5MM per year then a Maybach would be about like a Honda Accord. I'll bet the average Maybach buyer makes more than $1.5MM/year. Think about your average NBA Star or your better than average crack dealer. Robert, keep your eyes open downtown, you are bound to see one of these in the flesh ;) Richard Arnold '87 300 SDL '73 Alfa Spider ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 22:55:56 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: '99 TD... Lets hope not. I would probably scream and pass out like a teenage girl at an elvis concert :) A friend of mine actually has a Maybach. Not a new one but one of the original ones. Very beautiful car. Its much more solid than the Rolls Royce he has of the same vintage. I found it amazing that a 20/25 Rolls Royce has a wooden frame. Robert Chase Richard Arnold wrote: >>>At 09:53 PM 8/10/2003 -0400, Robert Chase wrote: >>> >>> >>>>John, >>>>Maybach's have always been the "ultimate" in german luxury. The > > car > >>>>is fast hand built and exclusive. Your unlikely to ever see > > another > >>>>driving in traffic. Its not a production vehicle rather a hand > > built > >>>>custom car built to your needs and specifications. The ability to > > own > >>>>a one of a kind vehicle is worth the money to a lot of people. > > > What must also be considered is that for these people, the purchase of a > Maybach represents much less a percentage of their annual income than > the average Honda buyer who spends $28,000. That is to say, if I made > $1.5MM per year then a Maybach would be about like a Honda Accord. I'll > bet the average Maybach buyer makes more than $1.5MM/year. Think about > your average NBA Star or your better than average crack dealer. Robert, > keep your eyes open downtown, you are bound to see one of these in the > flesh ;) > > Richard Arnold > '87 300 SDL > '73 Alfa Spider ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 20:13:53 -0700 From: john Subject: tire opinions sought... I think I've mentioned my bias on tires (no pun intended), but I want to hear what others would suggest for the PNW. This is going on my '91 300d, it has the wrong size tires on it right now. It's unlikely I'd drive it in snow, unless I got caught at work. Mostly wet road, cool climate. top speed of car is 121mph, tire size is: 195/65-15 seems like H rated is what's required. http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/91-300d-2.5L/ Looking for good handling, ride comfort, longevity and good wet road characteristics. I'll listen, and not reply. thanx for your suggestions, opinions and thoughts. :) What would you select? and why? thanx, john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 23:09:26 -0400 From: Mike Frank Subject: Re: EGT gauge install question As a general rule, the rear or next to rear cylinders are usually hottest, since they are farthest from the water pump. I know that's the case in Jaguar motors, which often fail between cylinder 5 & 6 (counting from the front). Mike Frank At 06:58 PM 8/10/2003 -0700, john wrote: >why would one cylinder on an inline motor run hotter then >others? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 20:22:28 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: EGT gauge install question I'm confused, the front cylinders, if memory serves me right, on the 4.0L run leaner, while the back ones richer... seems to me if they were hotter they'd run leaner, right? or have I got things backwards? john At 11:09 PM 8/10/2003 -0400, Mike Frank wrote: >As a general rule, the rear or next to rear cylinders are usually hottest, >since they are farthest from the water pump. I know that's the case in >Jaguar motors, which often fail between cylinder 5 & 6 (counting from the >front). > >Mike Frank > >At 06:58 PM 8/10/2003 -0700, john wrote: >>why would one cylinder on an inline motor run hotter then >>others? - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 23:39:49 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: EGT gauge install question Yep, Lean Mixture = Hotter whell at least in a Cessna :) At least i learned something useful in my regular life from all that flying I did :). Robert john wrote: > I'm confused, the front cylinders, if memory serves me right, > on the 4.0L run leaner, while the back ones richer... seems to > me if they were hotter they'd run leaner, right? or have I > got things backwards? > > john > > > At 11:09 PM 8/10/2003 -0400, Mike Frank wrote: > >> As a general rule, the rear or next to rear cylinders are usually >> hottest, since they are farthest from the water pump. I know that's >> the case in Jaguar motors, which often fail between cylinder 5 & 6 >> (counting from the front). >> >> Mike Frank >> >> At 06:58 PM 8/10/2003 -0700, john wrote: >> >>> why would one cylinder on an inline motor run hotter then >>> others? > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 22:55:29 -0500 From: "Sam Williams" <1sam-at-io.com> Subject: RE: State of the W123 Union Ron, Congratulations! I'm envious of your effectively new 123. John gave excellent advice. Ask the mechanic. If he says you don't need any break-in, follow John's second paragraph, anyway. I would keep varying the speed moderately until sure it is broken in--no use of cruise control until after 2k miles/25kkm. Cheers, Sam - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 8:28 PM To: Renaud OLGIATI; diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: State of the W123 Union listen to what the mechanic recommends as it'll be based on the type of rings he used. typical is to take it easy for the first 100 to 500 miles but vary the speed, don't hold it at one rpm for very long, and then driving it as normal after that. oil change at 500mph, then 1 to 2k, then you could even switch it to a synthethic if you're sure it's broken in... I'd wait until I had about 10k on the clock before switching so you know everything is seated. john At 08:19 PM 8/10/2003 +0100, Renaud OLGIATI wrote: >The car will come out next week from its refit. > >The following were changed: > > > pistons, sleeves and rings, the main and con rod bearings, valves and valve > > guides, chain and tensionner, and the pump and injectors are out for > > cleaning and callibration; > > > Oh yes, the gearbox is open, new bands are on the way and the B1 and B2 > > cylinders looked at. > >Any advice on the running in needed after such a job ? > >What speed not to exceed on what gears, for how many kilometres ? > >Any special change of oil, filter, etc ? > >TIA, > >Cheers, > >Ron, on the banks of the Paraguay River > >-- > The sad thing about Windows bashing > is that it's all true. > > -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 23:57:10 -0500 From: Jon Filina Subject: Re: tire opinions sought... John asked: > I think I've mentioned my bias on tires (no pun intended), > but I want to hear what others would suggest for the PNW. > > This is going on my '91 300d, it has the wrong size tires on > it right now. It's unlikely I'd drive it in snow, > unless I got caught at work. Mostly wet road, cool climate. > top speed of car is 121mph, tire size is: 195/65-15 > seems like H rated is what's required. I was a fan of Michelin's for years until I got my 240D in '98. I don't know if their quality has dropped over the years, or that the new tires that came with car were seconds. At any rate, I had a lot of problems with them. My 300SD rode on Michelin X-One's when I got it. Two were almost new and the rears had about 10K left. Last November I went to replace the rears (205/70-14) with Michelins. That would have been about $210, out the door, from Discount Tire. For $285 I got 4 Yokohama Avid Touring tires (195/70-14, which is the correct size). They ride smoother and quieter than the Michelins. They are excellent on wet pavement. They are not supposed to be any great shakes on snow, but they handled fine during our snowstorm this last winter. Ok...it doesn't snow in Texas, but we got 4-6 inches of snow on top of ice that night. That's catastrophic for Texas and shut us down a few days... These Yokohama's have gotten excellent reviews and I'm still happy I got them. Take a look at Tire Racks web site and see how they stack up against your favorite tire brand. I didn't see 195/65-15's listed, but did see 205's and the 195's in a 70's series. I'm surprised the recommended tires for your 300D aren't a bit beefier... Jon '84 300SD "Bruno" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 22:31:57 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: tire opinions sought... Jon, Thanx for the input... I started looking at the Tire Rack website, appreciate the input from the list. I did notice that these Michelin mXV4 Plus's do squeal around corners... whereas the 190D with the Goodyears did not! I noticed it on the test drive and commented on it to the seller. Today we had a rare rain shower (it only rains 9 months out of the year hear, July, Aug & Sept are usually totally rain free) and traction control kicked in and I got to do a power slide onto SR9... pretty cool, until I realized that these tires are practically new and the Michelin's on either of my Jeeps would have stuck like glue... and so would have the MXV4's I had on Fritz. I will look into the Yokohama Avid Touring tires a bit more. I had a set of Super Digger IV's on my '83 GMC Jimmy (6.2L Diesel) and they were great tires, when they came out with the V's they weren't the same tire and I haven't considered anything other then BFG or Michelin's since then... Will be waiting to hear from others. These tires are new, but the wrong size. Discount tire often gives me a great trade-in value since I seem to buy a lot of tires from them. :) ttyl, john At 11:57 PM 8/10/2003 -0500, Jon Filina wrote: >John asked: > >>I think I've mentioned my bias on tires (no pun intended), >>but I want to hear what others would suggest for the PNW. >>This is going on my '91 300d, it has the wrong size tires on >>it right now. It's unlikely I'd drive it in snow, >>unless I got caught at work. Mostly wet road, cool climate. >>top speed of car is 121mph, tire size is: 195/65-15 >>seems like H rated is what's required. > >I was a fan of Michelin's for years until I got my 240D in '98. I don't >know if their quality has dropped over the years, or that the new tires >that came with car were seconds. At any rate, I had a lot of problems >with them. > >My 300SD rode on Michelin X-One's when I got it. Two were almost new and >the rears had about 10K left. Last November I went to replace the rears >(205/70-14) with Michelins. That would have been about $210, out the >door, from Discount Tire. For $285 I got 4 Yokohama Avid Touring tires >(195/70-14, which is the correct size). > >They ride smoother and quieter than the Michelins. They are excellent on >wet pavement. They are not supposed to be any great shakes on snow, but >they handled fine during our snowstorm this last winter. Ok...it doesn't >snow in Texas, but we got 4-6 inches of snow on top of ice that >night. That's catastrophic for Texas and shut us down a few days... > >These Yokohama's have gotten excellent reviews and I'm still happy I got >them. Take a look at Tire Racks web site and see how they stack up >against your favorite tire brand. > >I didn't see 195/65-15's listed, but did see 205's and the 195's in a 70's >series. I'm surprised the recommended tires for your 300D aren't a bit >beefier... > >Jon >'84 300SD "Bruno" - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 23:22:09 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: murphy's law...low compression On Sat, Aug 09, 2003 at 06:20:41PM -0700, john wrote: > typical trick to determine if it's rings or valve seats > is to put some oil in the cylinder and see if the compression > comes up, if it does, it's the rings. Yikes! While you can get away with that trick on a gasser, on a diesel that will allow the cylinder to fire, which will cause you to be looking for a new compression gauge. Myself, I do not own a compression gauge. They don't tell you anything you really want to know, and if you have a cylinder low enough on compression, you'll hear it when you crank. I do not know if the leakdown test that works on gassers works on diesels, but you may want to try - AFTER adjusting the valves to spec, pressurize the cylinder. You will hear hissing in one of three areas if there is a pressure leak - at the exhaust means it's an exhaust valve, at the oil filler is rings or piston. Can't exactly stick your ear near the carburetor to check intake though :) K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 23:36:31 -0700 From: john Subject: yokohamas Yokohama AVS dB S2 (Ultra High Performance All-Season) Size:195/65-15 VR Speed Rated Price: $69 Yokohama Avid H4 (High Performance All-Season) Size:195/65-15 HR Speed Rated Price: $54 http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Compare1.jsp?startIndex=0&width=195%2F&ratio=65&diameter=15&sortCode=38050&minSpeedRating=H&ratio=65&width=195%2F&diameter=15&minLoad=S&search=true&pagelen=20&pagenum=1&pagemark=1&x=9&y=6&performance=UHPAS&performance=HPAS&manufacturer=Yokohama&speed_rating=HR&speed_rating=VR&speed_rating=WR&speed_rating=YR&speed_rating=ZR - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1159 **********************************