From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #1161 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, August 12 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1161 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: State of the W123 Union Re: tire opinions sought... Re: State of the W123 Union Re: State of the W123 Union no diesel content, offlist replies welcome - Trouble with a Camry Re: murphy's law...low compression Re: Re[2]: tire opinions sought... 82-85 300 factory recall? Re: 82-85 300 factory recall? Re: no diesel content, offlist replies welcome - Trouble with a Camry Re: State of the W123 Union Re: State of the W123 Union Re: tire opinions sought... Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 11:32:05 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: State of the W123 Union Hmmm, I guess these steps might be in order Get on an open stretch of road open sunroof deploy jet engine out sunroof get up as fast as you can on the engine turn on the jet engine turn off the diesel engine drain oil fill oil change filter burn up brake pads trying to stop :) Although you might probably be best off removing the hood because at that speed its likely to get ripped off because of the wind :) Robert Chase john wrote: > On Mon, 11 Aug 2003, Renaud OLGIATI wrote: > > >>-->My mailbox was recently graced by a missive from john : >>--> >>-->> oil change at 500mph >>--> >>-->How the hell do you do that ? > > > > well, I'd recommend a good set of goggles, a remote control > drain plug and a safety strap. > > a stable cruise control is also recommended... > > and of course, timing is critical, don't want to let the oil > level get too low or your engine could overheat or worse. > > ...helpful tips for the time impaired always available from Snohomish. :) > > john > > > >>--> >>-->Cheers, >>--> >>-->Ron, on the banks of the Paraguay River >>-->-- >>--> It is not for me to attempt to fathom >>--> the inscrutable workings of Providence. >>--> -- The Earl of Birkenhead >>--> >>--> -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- >>--> > > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. > ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) > The revolt is underway, you can not stop it. FEAR THE PENGUIN!!!! > May the SOURCE be With GNU > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 11:34:12 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: tire opinions sought... On the other hand a little protest is good. I had a Honda Prelude that had Pirelli's on it. It handled like it was on rails but when you pushed the car to its limits it would not really warn you and you would be in a 4 wheel drift with this scrubbing sound rather than a squeel (and of course lots of smoke). VERY SCARY!!! john wrote: > On Mon, 11 Aug 2003, Richard Welty wrote: > > >>-->On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 22:31:57 -0700 john wrote: >>-->> I did notice that these Michelin mXV4 Plus's do squeal around >>-->> corners... whereas the 190D with the Goodyears did not! I >>-->> noticed it on the test drive and commented on it to the seller. >>--> >>-->pressed to its limits, any tire should squeal. >>--> >>-->it's just that the michelin's limits are easier to find. > > > well, they didn't fell like they were at the limit, but they sure protested a lot. :) > > john > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. > ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) > The revolt is underway, you can not stop it. FEAR THE PENGUIN!!!! > May the SOURCE be With GNU > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 12:37:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Jack Etsweiler Subject: Re: State of the W123 Union John opined: oil change at 500mph, That would be at Speedy Oil Change, I assume? :-D Jack in Ann Arbor, MI ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 11:24:55 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: State of the W123 Union On Mon, 11 Aug 2003, Paul Brown wrote: >-->I think that you need to be coasting downhill so's you can shut the >-->engine off to avoid the overheat/seize problems. There is the remote >-->drain thingy, but I don't know of a remote fill complement. forgot to mention the pressurized RAM air oil tank on the hood... :) john >--> >-->john wrote: >--> >-->>On Mon, 11 Aug 2003, Renaud OLGIATI wrote: >-->> >-->>>-->My mailbox was recently graced by a missive from john : >-->>>--> >-->>>-->> oil change at 500mph >-->>>--> >-->>>-->How the hell do you do that ? >-->>> >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) The revolt is underway, you can not stop it. FEAR THE PENGUIN!!!! May the SOURCE be With GNU - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 18:31:49 GMT From: mjmason-at-juno.com Subject: no diesel content, offlist replies welcome - Trouble with a Camry *sigh* I know, I know... why did I get rid of the used diesel Benz for a used Japanese mid-size. But at the time, the price was right. (I hear you laughing out there, Robert!) ;) It's a 93 Camry V6 LE, automatic tranny, original engine, body great, 113k miles. The current issue started this morning (and it's one of relatively few I've ever had with the car, which has been meticulously maintained by a combination of the PO and his Toyota dealer, my trusted local shop, and myself.) Known issues and "need-to-checks" - ignition wires are original, and I suspect there's a vacuum leak somewhere as I hear an occasional hissing/breathing at low speeds, about once out of every forty or fifty times I hit the brakes at low speed. At highway speed once the engine's warmed up, the power assist on the steering seems to go away (making it steer like my old VW Vanagon), and there's a slight rumble/shimmy to the ride. Occasionally the shift from Reverse into Drive is harder/clunkier than it used to be. ATF level is within normal limits, with very little discoloration and not much of a smell, and ditto with the power steering fluid and brake fluid. I'm not certain yet whether I feel a difference in the performance of the brakes, but the pedal seemed a little bit softer than in the past when I drove to work this morning. Any thoughts? I haven't had a chance (clearly) to grab the books and see if the steering, brakes and tranny are all vacuum-assisted or vacuum-dependent in some way... TIA, Matt in IL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 12:13:57 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: murphy's law...low compression On Mon, Aug 11, 2003 at 08:57:46AM -0400, Mike Frank wrote: > The only reason a leakdown test wouldn't work is that you need to find some > way to keep the engine from turning...otherwise, the air pressure will > cause the engine to start! Heh. I guess this is something you don't have to worry about with a manual trans. Then again, this car has cracked a gear cluster in a tranny before, so the tranny is probably the weak link of the car. Maybe I better not do that. :) K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 12:18:40 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: Re[2]: tire opinions sought... On Mon, Aug 11, 2003 at 08:32:16AM -0700, john wrote: > >-->pressed to its limits, any tire should squeal. > >--> > >-->it's just that the michelin's limits are easier to find. > > well, they didn't fell like they were at the limit, but they sure protested > a lot. :) And that is exactly my experience with michelins, ranging from the X radials that I had on the country squire to the X Ribs on the F350 (which was a dually, so there were FOUR tires in the back with good tread, really no excuse for making noise going 65 over hwy 17 - there was tons of traction to spare), to the XGT pilots on the patrol car, to the X metrics on the spirit... The tires all stuck fine and gave good feel, but they were noisy as a suburban full of seventh grade girls going to a justin timberlake concert :) I was stuck putting the pilots on the crown vic because they performed rather well (as noisy as they were), and it's hard to find an H rated 225/70R15. I'll probably look at yokohamas or bridgestones of some sort when the 190D needs new tires, but that's a ways away. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 12:27:34 -0700 (PDT) From: hue wong Subject: 82-85 300 factory recall? Just was talking with a friend o mine and this topic came up. I seem to remember reading that the early 80's era 300's had bad transmission problems and had a factory recall (or in this case a credit voucher to get the trannies replaced at a dealership) Is this true or was this just some idle Inet rummor? Always curious about benz lore. - -hue- __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:59:35 -0400 From: "J.B. Hebert" Subject: Re: 82-85 300 factory recall? Might be in reference to the failure-prone B2 piston. Mercedes redesigned it about 8 times and it's better, but not great. Definitely something that should be considered a regular maintenance item. Good for 100-150k miles. J.B. At 12:27 PM 8/11/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Just was talking with a friend o mine and this topic >came up. I seem to remember reading that the early >80's era 300's had bad transmission problems and had a >factory recall (or in this case a credit voucher to >get the trannies replaced at a dealership) > >Is this true or was this just some idle Inet rummor? >Always curious about benz lore. >-hue- > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software >http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 17:00:07 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: no diesel content, offlist replies welcome - Trouble with a Camry Matt, Ok you got me. Although I only laughed when I saw your comment about me laughing.... The hissing on the brakes is common as my 1991 Honda Accord used to do that. You need to keep an eye on the brakes because soon your pedal may start to gravitate toward the floor at redlights. My Accord's problem was a bad master cylender and the hiss was the leaking Vacuum from the brake booster. Just keep your emergency brake tightened in the event it fails on you before you can fix it. While you still will have brakes they will slowly fade to the floor under constant pressure. You can either pump the brakes and make them deteriorate further or set the parking brake at lights :). The brakes do have a Vacuum boster which may also be a problem. The power assist seems to be the big issue your having. A lot of japanese cars including the 2002 Accord I just got rid of (YAY!) have varible power assist meaning that the power steering does not assist at a constant rate but is dependant on the input of multiple sensors that give the computer information about vehicle speed and rpm. My 2002 used to get "faked out" by my aggressive driving style and when I accelerated from a stop and attempted to make a turn at the same time the power steering went out and made it a handful to keep from running into things with. Perhaps your seeing a failure of a sensor somewhere or you have a failing power steering pump. At highway speeds a car without power steering should drive almost like one with due to the turning wheels. You may also have a problem with the steering rack. The transmission is not good news. Just so you know Japanese Automatic transmissions go out like clockwork at about 120-130k. The cars themselves are engineered to last about 200-250k. Eventually depending on the way you drive your cars you are going to need a new transmission. Sounds like you have a little ways to go though. Watch for slipping strange shifting and other telltale signs. The good news is in the Atlanta area we have a place called Japanese Engines of Atlanta who specialize in imported Japanese transmissions and engines. In japan the emissions restrictions are so high that you are given the chance to scrap the car or replace the engine. These people buy the old engines and transmissions as well as the whole cars and import them into the US. They have really great deals on transmissions with as little as 30k miles or less in some cases. I had a 1983 Honda Accord that ate an engine and had it replaced very inexpensively. I don't have anything against the Jap iron as its a good alternitive to a diesel benz if you cant find one or dont have the time to deal with their special needs. A friend of mine is selling a 1991 Honda Civic Hatchback with 193k miles and it runs great with cold A/C. (send me an e-mail if interested he is asking $1400). One of my favorite Japanese cars was a 1988 Honda Prelude that had 211k and ran really well until it got wrecked by my brother. My Suggestion however would be to fix the power steering and flush the Transmission ASAP! and either plan on buying a new transmission in the future or pushing the car onto someone else while it still test drives well. Right now is a great time to buy a diesel benz :) Then again any time is a great time to buy a diesel benz. Robert Chase mjmason-at-juno.com wrote: > *sigh* I know, I know... why did I get rid of the used diesel Benz for a used Japanese mid-size. But at the time, the price was right. (I hear you laughing out there, Robert!) ;) > > It's a 93 Camry V6 LE, automatic tranny, original engine, body great, 113k miles. The current issue started this morning (and it's one of relatively few I've ever had with the car, which has been meticulously maintained by a combination of the PO and his Toyota dealer, my trusted local shop, and myself.) > > Known issues and "need-to-checks" - ignition wires are original, and I suspect there's a vacuum leak somewhere as I hear an occasional hissing/breathing at low speeds, about once out of every forty or fifty times I hit the brakes at low speed. > > At highway speed once the engine's warmed up, the power assist on the steering seems to go away (making it steer like my old VW Vanagon), and there's a slight rumble/shimmy to the ride. Occasionally the shift from Reverse into Drive is harder/clunkier than it used to be. ATF level is within normal limits, with very little discoloration and not much of a smell, and ditto with the power steering fluid and brake fluid. I'm not certain yet whether I feel a difference in the performance of the brakes, but the pedal seemed a little bit softer than in the past when I drove to work this morning. > > Any thoughts? I haven't had a chance (clearly) to grab the books and see if the steering, brakes and tranny are all vacuum-assisted or vacuum-dependent in some way... > > TIA, > Matt in IL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 17:55:15 -0400 From: Mike Frank Subject: Re: State of the W123 Union No need for a jet engine, just need a bigger Diesel: http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/ Mike Frank At 11:32 AM 8/11/2003 -0400, Robert Chase wrote: >Hmmm, > >I guess these steps might be in order > >Get on an open stretch of road >open sunroof >deploy jet engine out sunroof >get up as fast as you can on the engine >turn on the jet engine >turn off the diesel engine >drain oil >fill oil >change filter >burn up brake pads trying to stop :) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 17:58:44 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: State of the W123 Union Nice, A little heavy on the springs of my w126 though :) Robert Chase Mike Frank wrote: > No need for a jet engine, just need a bigger Diesel: > > http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/ > > Mike Frank > > > > At 11:32 AM 8/11/2003 -0400, Robert Chase wrote: > >> Hmmm, >> >> I guess these steps might be in order >> >> Get on an open stretch of road >> open sunroof >> deploy jet engine out sunroof >> get up as fast as you can on the engine >> turn on the jet engine >> turn off the diesel engine >> drain oil >> fill oil >> change filter >> burn up brake pads trying to stop :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:35:52 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: tire opinions sought... http://www.kumhousa.com/TireSelect/TireSize.asp?width-195&ratio=65&diameter=15 http://www.kumhousa.com/Products/PtnDetails.asp?mainCatID=1&PTNID=KH-11&refAction=PtnDetail (typed that in, cut and paste ain't working in windoze... :( thanx, john On Tue, 12 Aug 2003, Eurowerks wrote: >-->Kuhmo KH-11's because I have put them on over 15 clients cars with no >-->complaints and plenty of praise. Besides, they are the least expensive tire >-->going right now. >--> >-->Kirk A. Gilchrist >-->EURO-WERKS / Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Volvo Service and Repair >-->8 South Highland St. / Winchester, KY 40391 / 859-745-0125 >-->eurowerks-at-qx.net / 888-522-0271 toll free >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) The revolt is underway, you can not stop it. FEAR THE PENGUIN!!!! May the SOURCE be With GNU - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1161 **********************************