From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #1164 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Saturday, August 16 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1164 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: 190D Serp Tensioner W124 6-Banger Turbodiesel.... 123 hydraulic suspension Coolant coolant coolant RE: W124 6-Banger Turbodiesel.... Diesels in production Re: Coolant coolant coolant michelin mxv4 pluses 195/60/15 for sale Re: W124 6-Banger Turbodiesel.... Re: Coolant coolant coolant Ten buck 190D Re: Ten buck 190D Re: Ten buck 190D Re: Ten buck 190D Re: Coolant coolant coolant My other diesel died on me Re: 123 hydraulic suspension Re: W124 6-Banger Turbodiesel.... Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 13:00:12 -0400 From: Mike Frank Subject: 190D Serp Tensioner Despite the blackout, I finished this repair yesterday. A few tips and observations: First of all, Derrick was correct: it's a poor design. This mechanism might be ok in a Dodge, which you expect to last for maybe 100K, but in a long-lived engine like a Mercedes Diesel, it's inappropriate, due to the design of the bearing. There's no way to substitute a roller bearing, because the reciprocating motion would wear pockets in the race. So they used a plain bushing, but there's no provision for lubrication. When the factory lubrication dries up, it wears out. They COULD have installed a grease fitting and cut a groove in the bushing, but Mercedes seems to never install grease fittings. Once the bushing dries up, the end is pretty quick. The rocker starts to vibrate, and potentially will crack the timing chain cover. Stinky design. The thing is to keep an eye on it. There simply shouldn't be any visible or audible vibration. If there is, then replace it. Replacement is fairly straight forward, with a few caveats. Here's the procedure, since it's poorly documented in the book: 1) There are a few unique fasteners involved. Lose nothing, or it's a trip to the dealer. 2) Remove the radiator shroud (may vary depending on year): - Unclip the thingy that holds the wiring to the top. You must do this, since it holds the two halves of the shroud together. - Undo the inner half of the shroud by twisting the whole thing, directions are molded into the piece. - Remove the outer half of the shroud by removing the two clips and pulling up. Slide out the inner half of the shroud. 3) Remove the fan blade by undoing the three bolts that hold it to the clutch (may vary depending on year). 4) Undo the nut on the plastic rocker. Release tension on the serp belt by inserting a bar in the plastic rocker, and levering until you can get the bolt out. Then release the spring. 5) Unbolt the shock absorber. Be sure to note the positions of the bolts, which have different height shoulders. 6) The serp belt should now be removed and inspected. May as well replace it. 7) Pop the cap off the tensioner bearing. 8) Using a 12mm Allen socket (this is a difficult tool to find, be sure you can get one), unbolt the rocker arm. It's held on with considerable force, but don't use an impact tool: use a long breaker bar and steady pressure to unseat it. There is a large washer behind the rocker arm, don't lose it, it's a spacer with a specific thickness. Note: older engines used a different bolting arrangement, but all replacement rocker arms use the newer (12mm) cap screw. 9) Transfer the jockey wheel to the new rocker arm. Although it uses the same type of bushing, it's less prone to wear, so probably ok. But replace it if there's ANY play. 10) Install the new rocker arm assembly. Be VERY careful not to cross thread the bolt, it's easy to damage the timing chain cover. Use Locktite on the threads (the kind that can be removed later, not the deadly stuff that can't be undone without heat). Torque the bolt to exactly 100NM (74 ft lbs). This is more precise than most specs, and reflects the engineer's concern with vibration. 11) Install the dust cover. Make sure it's snapped on tightly all the way around, it's very awkward. 12) Replace the shock...if the rocker was bad, so is the lower shock bushing. Be sure to use the correct bolts. 13) Replace the belt, setting the tension with the plastic rocker. 14) Replace fan, shroud, etc. Mike Frank ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 13:55:56 -0400 From: "Jim Steere" Subject: W124 6-Banger Turbodiesel.... Has anyone had any experience with a W124 with a 6-cylinder turbodiesel? I picked one up yesterday that I'd purchased sight unseen (planning to "part" it). It's got 237K and it absolutely FLIES. I thought my old '87 W201 2.5 Turbo was quick for a diesel. This thing would suck the headlights outta' the 190D. Smokes like a Kenworth on kill when it's WFO, and chirps the rear tires on a 1-2 shift. This thing is a hoot. I may have to designate this my new beater.....after all....I 've got all the parts.... I've never had any contact with this MB diesel engine......how long do they last? Good or bad "track record"? Jim Steere Everything Automotive Crystal, MI www.usedbenzparts.com (989)235-4000 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 15:29:50 -0500 From: "Black, Waylon" Subject: 123 hydraulic suspension Looking at an diesel MB wagons - been looking for a while. Found a 79 wagon that looks pretty good, just needs some work. Noticed the car has the factory hydraulic suspension. Was this standard or an option for the wagons? Is the system reliable or troublesome? What happens in the event of a failure? Waylon Dallas, Texas ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 15:18:20 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Coolant coolant coolant Hey everybody, Its been quiet around here so I thought I would perhaps ask a few questions and get some conversation going. I just changed the upper and lower radiator hoses and my thermostat on my 300SD and dropped in some original MB coolant. My thermostat was completely broken which explains some of the erratic tempature readings I was getting. The car heats right up and hovers right above 80 and stays there most of the time (sometimes rises in sitting traffic). The friend that was helping me is a bit "hard headed" and did not listen to me when I asked him not to mix the coolant with water ahead of time. I used a garden hose to flush out most of the coolant in the car in the radiator and in the engine block. I ran the engine while doing this and got the car up to 80degrees until "warm" water was coming out of the block when I flushed with the hose (you could see the "green" coolant flushing out of the system). At that point we sealed up the system and we were only able to get 1/2 of the coolant we wanted in the system because my friend did not listen to my requests. I knew that we could not get the fresh water out of the engine block area and would have to mix in more concentrated coolant to mix in the system. Is there a special tool to test the coolant saturation for the MB coolant or will a normal tool tell me what I need to know? Or am I going to have to dump my radiator of its $14/gallon coolant and buy more to be sure of the mixture I have in the radiator. Fortunatly its summer and I can drive around for a while on a less than perfect mixture. I just want to take care of this before winter comes and my engine block freezes sold :) My original Behr radiator is in great shape and it looks like the car was run on its orignal coolant for most of its life. The neck was not brittle at all (which is great for a 21 year old radiator). I think the only time its ever seen the green stuff is when I had all the fluids changed out when I had the car serviced. Its dissapointing that they did not use the original fluid. Robert Chase ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 17:34:08 -0700 From: REisenhardt-at-AlienTechnology.com Subject: RE: W124 6-Banger Turbodiesel.... Jim I've got an '87 300 SDL with the OM603.961 motor. It's got 300k on it and still flies. My understanding is that if you're not careful, they overheat and blow head gaskets. Mine was replaced by the previous owner (as well as a turbo rebuild). Love the car, great on highways. Randy - -----Original Message----- From: Jim Steere [mailto:jim-at-msdra.com] Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 10:56 AM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: W124 6-Banger Turbodiesel.... Has anyone had any experience with a W124 with a 6-cylinder turbodiesel? I picked one up yesterday that I'd purchased sight unseen (planning to "part" it). It's got 237K and it absolutely FLIES. I thought my old '87 W201 2.5 Turbo was quick for a diesel. This thing would suck the headlights outta' the 190D. Smokes like a Kenworth on kill when it's WFO, and chirps the rear tires on a 1-2 shift. This thing is a hoot. I may have to designate this my new beater.....after all....I 've got all the parts.... I've never had any contact with this MB diesel engine......how long do they last? Good or bad "track record"? Jim Steere Everything Automotive Crystal, MI www.usedbenzparts.com (989)235-4000 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 22:51:51 -0700 From: john Subject: Diesels in production http://my.netscape.com/corewidgets/news/story.psp?cat=50380&id=200308141632000278267 - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 20:47:17 -0400 From: Mike Frank Subject: Re: Coolant coolant coolant Robert: I carry coolant test strips in my on-line store...I think I'm the only Accustrip dealer who sells single tests. They will do the trick for you: http://coolcatcorp.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=Cooling MB coolant is conventional, non-Dexcool. It's just low phosphate ethylene glycol. Mike Frank (hope this isn't too commercial) At 03:18 PM 8/15/2003 -0400, Robert Chase wrote: >Is there a special tool to test the coolant saturation for the MB coolant >or will a normal tool tell me what I need to know? Or am I going to have >to dump my radiator of its $14/gallon coolant and buy more to be sure of >the mixture I have in the radiator. Fortunatly its summer and I can drive >around for a while on a less than perfect mixture. I just want to take >care of this before winter comes and my engine block freezes sold :) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 17:57:09 -0700 From: john Subject: michelin mxv4 pluses 195/60/15 for sale selling my 195/60 15 michelin mxv4 plus tires so I can get the correct size for my car. tires are new, not sure of mileage, looking for the receipt.... need 195/65 15's got a quote at discount tires for the Yokohoma YK-20's but they'd only give me $100 trade in on tires that cost $129.00 each!!!! I don't think so. :) Make me an offer... excellent condition... john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 18:34:58 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: W124 6-Banger Turbodiesel.... I test drove an '87 with the 3.0L TD... it hooked me on the 124 chassis, and that 6 cyl will blow the doors off of this 2.5L TD. john At 01:55 PM 8/15/2003 -0400, Jim Steere wrote: >Has anyone had any experience with a W124 with a 6-cylinder turbodiesel? I >picked one up yesterday that I'd purchased sight unseen (planning to "part" >it). It's got 237K and it absolutely FLIES. I thought my old '87 W201 2.5 >Turbo was quick for a diesel. This thing would suck the headlights outta' the >190D. Smokes like a Kenworth on kill when it's WFO, and chirps the rear tires >on a 1-2 shift. > >This thing is a hoot. I may have to designate this my new beater.....after >all....I 've got all the parts.... > >I've never had any contact with this MB diesel engine......how long do they >last? Good or bad "track record"? > >Jim Steere >Everything Automotive >Crystal, MI >www.usedbenzparts.com >(989)235-4000 - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 21:35:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Welty Subject: Re: Coolant coolant coolant On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 15:18:20 -0400 Robert Chase wrote: > Its been quiet around here so I thought I would perhaps ask a few > questions and get some conversation going. the server was a late (between 9pm and 10pm last night) casualty of the blackout. my colo ISP, incompetent as they are, managed to muck up the recovery and drag things out for at least a couple of hours longer than it should have taken, plus, they've moved my server so i no longer actually know where it is physically located. pffttthhhh. richard - -- Richard Welty rwelty-at-suespammers.org Averill Park Networking rwelty-at-averillpark.net Unix, Linux, IP Network Engineering, Security rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com 518-573-7592 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 22:14:53 -0400 From: Mike Frank Subject: Ten buck 190D Now this is a price I can handle: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10368&item=2427971303 Mike Frank ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 19:43:49 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: Ten buck 190D man, I don't usually like black cars, but that looks beautiful. john At 10:14 PM 8/15/2003 -0400, Mike Frank wrote: >Now this is a price I can handle: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10368&item=2427971303 > > >Mike Frank - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 23:44:28 -0400 From: Mike Frank Subject: Re: Ten buck 190D It looks nice, even at twenty six bux. I wonder where it will end up? Careful about buying cars from pictures. If you want to bid, I may be able to inspect this one, it may be local enough. Mike Frank At 07:43 PM 8/15/2003 -0700, john wrote: >man, I don't usually like black cars, but that looks beautiful. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 22:48:32 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: Ten buck 190D thanx, but I'm quite happy with my 300d. I just need to get the right size tires for it now. :) john At 11:44 PM 8/15/2003 -0400, Mike Frank wrote: >It looks nice, even at twenty six bux. I wonder where it will end up? > >Careful about buying cars from pictures. If you want to bid, I may be able >to inspect this one, it may be local enough. > >Mike Frank > >At 07:43 PM 8/15/2003 -0700, john wrote: >>man, I don't usually like black cars, but that looks beautiful. - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 03:42:35 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: Coolant coolant coolant heh heh, I figured as much when I did not get a copy of my message :) Robert. Richard Welty wrote: > On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 15:18:20 -0400 Robert Chase wrote: > >>Its been quiet around here so I thought I would perhaps ask a few >>questions and get some conversation going. > > > the server was a late (between 9pm and 10pm last night) casualty of the > blackout. my colo ISP, incompetent as they are, managed to muck up the > recovery and drag things out for at least a couple of hours longer than it > should have taken, plus, they've moved my server so i no longer actually > know where it is physically located. pffttthhhh. > > richard > -- > Richard Welty > rwelty-at-suespammers.org Averill Park Networking > rwelty-at-averillpark.net Unix, Linux, IP Network Engineering, Security > rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com 518-573-7592 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 06:33:40 +0100 From: Renaud OLGIATI Subject: My other diesel died on me Yesterday, my other diesel (Citroen) died on me: Started normally, went half a kilometre, and died; at first I thought a broken accelerator cable, but that was not the cause. Symptoms: Unless the accelerator is floored, it does not start. With the accelerator floored, it half-catched for a few revs, while spewing huge amounts of white smoke. Tank is three-quarters full, and the priming pump is "hard" when I try it. Any idea ? Cheers, Ron. - -- I intend to live forever or die trying. -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 06:08:53 -0700 From: Greg Fiorentino Subject: Re: 123 hydraulic suspension At 01:29 PM 8/15/03 , Black, Waylon wrote: > Looking at an diesel MB wagons - been looking for a while. Found a 79 wagon >that looks pretty good, just needs some work. Noticed the car has the >factory hydraulic suspension. Was this standard or an option for the wagons? >Is the system reliable or troublesome? What happens in the event of a >failure? > >Waylon >Dallas, Texas I also have a '79 TD. I understand that the hydraulic suspension was standard on these and is also in some sedans. I have read that they can be expensive to repair, but mine has been trouble-free. It is an awesome feature, as it levels the vehicle despite a load in the rear, and the handling and ride are great. I also have a question about these...is the fluid a maintenance replacement item like the brake fluid? Greg Greg Fiorentino Vancouver USA gfior-at-dslnorthwest.net '84 300D Turbo '79 300TD '85 F-350 6.9 crew cab ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 09:10:25 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: W124 6-Banger Turbodiesel.... At 10:05 AM 8/16/2003 -0400, Jim Steere wrote: > > I test drove an '87 with the 3.0L TD... it hooked > > me on the 124 chassis, and that 6 cyl will blow the > > doors off of this 2.5L TD. > > john > >You bet. This thing rocks... Now....if you could find a W201 with a dead >16V....so you had the "good" suspension.....and wedge this thing in it....do >a little tinkerin' and tamperin' with the wastegate and pump timing...... > >Jim Jim, This sounds like what we're usually talking about on either the FSJ or XJ lists. :) Jeeps tend to lend themselves to swaps. I had a friend dropping a 350 chev into a 280 sedan at one point, he was an expert welder, but I don't think he ever finished the project... he was a smoker and ended up dying of cancer in his early 30's. :( I still want to put a Mercedes Diesel into a Willys... one of the FC's that my buddy is getting has a 3 cyl Diesel in it, not sure how it got there. :) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1164 **********************************