From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #1166 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Monday, August 18 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1166 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: premature transmission shift RE: premature transmission shift Re: premature transmission shift w-140 OM617 swap? someone is selling my car :) Re: someone is selling my car :) Re: Ten buck 190D Re: someone is selling my car :) Re: W124 6-Banger Turbodiesel.... Re: someone is selling my car :) Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 12:38:10 -0500 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: premature transmission shift I believe the vacuum signal to the transmission tells it how quickly to shift. The "Bowden cable" provides an indication of accelerator position, and tells the transmission WHEN to shift. I think the Bowden cable is just another rod in the middle of the whole accelerator linkage. Look for a rod headed down. Or look for a rod that may have come up from the tranny area, and you accidentally bumped it off of its connection. Those all use that simple snap on ball and socket connection. If your transmission no longer knows accelerator position, it assumes you are just putting along, and it shifts early. Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 89 300CE, 160K > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Steve Morelen > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 11:34 AM > To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net > Subject: premature transmission shift > > > Has anyone experienced a mid-eighties 300D transmission that shifts > prematurely? I have an '84 300D with the 617.952 engine. The automatic > transmission shifts into 3rd gear at about 20 MPH, making it a very time > consuming affair to accelerate to some normal highway speed. All of the > shifts are now softer than they have historically been. (might be > bad news) > I can get good drivability if I start the car with the shifter in "2" and > hold it from shifting until about 30-35 MPH at which time I move > the shift > lever to "D". ATF level is OK, doesn't smell or look burned. > Transmission > does not seem to be slipping. I've been checking the vacuum to the > transmission...about 11 in of Hg at idle and drops to approx 9 in > of Hg at ~ > 2000 rpm (in park). The hard plastic vacuum tube between my measurement > point and the modulator is clean. All other vacuum functions on > the car are > OK. These symptoms appeared immediately after my recent engine > compression > testing and re-assembly of the injectors and fuel lines. I initially > thought that I had inadvertantly knocked some vacuum stuff loose > in all my > fiddling around the driver's side of the engine...but doesn't > seem so after > my vacuum tests. It seems like my favorite car is dying on me.... :-( > > Steve Morelen > '84 300D > > _________________________________________________________________ > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 15:46:08 -0400 From: "Steve Morelen" Subject: RE: premature transmission shift Alec- Thank you for mentioning the Bowden cable. I went back out and started scrutinizing the throttle linkage and found that I had somehow moved a piece of the linkage on top of the valve cover to an improper positon. (see attached images..Bowden cable removed for clarity) I must have done this during disassembly of the throttle linkage prior to adjusting valves....it isn't easy to flip the plate around to the wrong side of the stop pin. The Bowden cable attachment is the most difficult to remove on my car and I must have pulled the plate up and over the stop pin while prying the Bowden wire connector off the ball pin. Thanks again for your comments. Steve Morelen >From: "Alec Cordova" >To: "Steve Morelen" , >Subject: RE: premature transmission shift >Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 12:38:10 -0500 > >I believe the vacuum signal to the transmission tells it how quickly to >shift. The "Bowden cable" provides an indication of accelerator position, >and tells the transmission WHEN to shift. > >I think the Bowden cable is just another rod in the middle of the whole >accelerator linkage. Look for a rod headed down. Or look for a rod that may >have come up from the tranny area, and you accidentally bumped it off of >its >connection. Those all use that simple snap on ball and socket connection. > >If your transmission no longer knows accelerator position, it assumes you >are just putting along, and it shifts early. > >Alec Cordova >Taylor, Texas >89 300CE, 160K > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Steve Morelen > > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 11:34 AM > > To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net > > Subject: premature transmission shift > > > > > > Has anyone experienced a mid-eighties 300D transmission that shifts > > prematurely? I have an '84 300D with the 617.952 engine. The automatic > > transmission shifts into 3rd gear at about 20 MPH, making it a very time > > consuming affair to accelerate to some normal highway speed. All of the > > shifts are now softer than they have historically been. (might be > > bad news) > > I can get good drivability if I start the car with the shifter in "2" >and > > hold it from shifting until about 30-35 MPH at which time I move > > the shift > > lever to "D". ATF level is OK, doesn't smell or look burned. > > Transmission > > does not seem to be slipping. I've been checking the vacuum to the > > transmission...about 11 in of Hg at idle and drops to approx 9 in > > of Hg at ~ > > 2000 rpm (in park). The hard plastic vacuum tube between my measurement > > point and the modulator is clean. All other vacuum functions on > > the car are > > OK. These symptoms appeared immediately after my recent engine > > compression > > testing and re-assembly of the injectors and fuel lines. I initially > > thought that I had inadvertantly knocked some vacuum stuff loose > > in all my > > fiddling around the driver's side of the engine...but doesn't > > seem so after > > my vacuum tests. It seems like my favorite car is dying on me.... :-( > > > > Steve Morelen > > '84 300D > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail [demime 0.99c.7 removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of bad_throttle.jpg] [demime 0.99c.7 removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of good_throttle.jpg] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 15:18:29 -0500 From: Jon Filina Subject: Re: premature transmission shift Steve wrote: > Has anyone experienced a mid-eighties 300D transmission that shifts > prematurely? I have an '84 300D with the 617.952 engine. I assume your '84 uses the same layout as my '84 300SD. The shift timing is controlled by the "bowden" cable, as Alec pointed out. Look at your throttle linkage on top of the valve cover. As the throttle pedal is depressed in rotates. I am sure you turned it by hand when you were doing the compression checks. All connections, except one, are metal rods. There is one cable which goes to the transmission. That's the "bowden" cable. It's been almost a year since I played with adjusting this cable. From what I remember, there is a nylon sleeve that tightens or loosens the cable and a lock nut. Loosen the lock nut (10 mm ?), make your adjustment and then tighten it back down. The little "jingle" I came up with to remember which direction does what goes something like: "Right-Race, Left-Little Old Lady" with the adjustment being done while leaning over the passenger side fender looking towards the front of the car. or: Loose-Later, Tight-Earlier (I ran out of rhymes....) > All of the shifts are now softer than they have historically been. (might be bad > news) Again, as Alec said, that is a function of the modulator valve on the transmission. However, if the transmission is shifting too soon, which may be lugging the engine, it could feel like a softer shift. > These symptoms appeared immediately > after my recent engine compression testing and re-assembly of the > injectors and fuel lines. I initially thought that I had inadvertantly > knocked some vacuum stuff loose in all my fiddling around the driver's > side of the engine...but doesn't seem so after my vacuum tests. Vacuum lines would have been my first thought, also. It sounds more like the bowden cable to me. > It seems like my favorite car is dying on me.... :-( If it had been shifting ok before you worked on it, I'd suspect you knocked something out of wack by accident. Check out this URL: http://www.mercedesdismantlers.com/722.3and722.416_transmission_adjustments#722.3%20Series%20and%20722.416%20Transmission%20Adjustments You'll probably have to put this one back in line to get it to work. Otherwise, go to www.mercedesdismantler.com and click on "Automatic Tranmsission Technical Information", towards the bottom of the page. The "722.3 and 722.416 Series Transmission Adjustments" should be what you are looking for. This site also has vacuum diagrams for some of the MB transmissions, Good luck. Jon '84 300SD 164,200 mi. (??) "Bruno" Rebuilt tranmsission, October, '02. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 18:03:54 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: w-140 OM617 swap? Ok, Here is a question. Does anybody know if you can shoehorn an OM617 into a w-140 body? Robert Chase ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 18:14:19 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: someone is selling my car :) have never seen one just like mine. This one is missing the wipers and chrome plated wheels though :) Wonder if his lamp tilt works :) R. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6330&item=2427619445 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 17:33:53 -0700 From: "Derickam AA" Subject: Re: someone is selling my car :) Very nice! Derick Amburgey Automated Control Specialist Port Of Seattle/SeaTac Airport/Satellite Train System Amateur Radio Callsign: K7DXX List "Mom" of Diesel-Benz reflector 1985 Mercedes 190D "Tuti" 280,000 Mi (36 mpg) 1984 Mercedes 190D "Charity" 160,000 Mi (in rehab) 1981 Volkswagen Caddy 1.6L 66,000 Mi (50 mpg) - ----Original Message Follows---- From: Robert Chase To: Diesel Benz Subject: someone is selling my car :) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 18:14:19 -0400 have never seen one just like mine. This one is missing the wipers and chrome plated wheels though :) Wonder if his lamp tilt works :) R. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6330&item=2427619445 _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 23:22:36 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: Ten buck 190D On Fri, Aug 15, 2003 at 10:14:53PM -0400, Mike Frank wrote: > Now this is a price I can handle: Hm. A car without license plates that is definately old enough to have them. While it would need new plates if it went to another state anyways, I'm a little nervous about its history if it doesn't have plates on it. Is New York a state that the vehicle owner owns the plates, and the plates don't necessarily stay with the car when the car is sold (like florida I think, and michigan)? Like I need another car. Like that's ever stopped me :) K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 02:37:14 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: someone is selling my car :) In pretty good shape too with low miles. It will be interesting to see what it finally goes for price wise. I looked at his photos a little closer. He is missing the headlight aim control on the dash and the wipers. His VIN is close to mine but his car is newer (mine was actually assembled in 1981 but is a 1982 model). If I had a job right now I think I would buy his car and call the pair the evil twins. Then again it would be a difficult decision which one to drive :) How do you decide which 190 to take Derick? Then again I notice one is in "rehab" so depending on what that means it might be an easy decision :) Robert Chase Derickam AA wrote: > Very nice! > > Derick Amburgey > Automated Control Specialist > Port Of Seattle/SeaTac Airport/Satellite Train System > Amateur Radio Callsign: K7DXX > List "Mom" of Diesel-Benz reflector > 1985 Mercedes 190D "Tuti" 280,000 Mi (36 mpg) > 1984 Mercedes 190D "Charity" 160,000 Mi (in rehab) > 1981 Volkswagen Caddy 1.6L 66,000 Mi (50 mpg) > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: Robert Chase > To: Diesel Benz > Subject: someone is selling my car :) > Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 18:14:19 -0400 > > have never seen one just like mine. This one is missing the wipers and > chrome plated wheels though :) > > Wonder if his lamp tilt works :) > > R. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6330&item=2427619445 > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 23:55:26 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: W124 6-Banger Turbodiesel.... On Fri, Aug 15, 2003 at 01:55:56PM -0400, Jim Steere wrote: > Has anyone had any experience with a W124 with a 6-cylinder turbodiesel? I > picked one up yesterday that I'd purchased sight unseen (planning to "part" > it). It's got 237K and it absolutely FLIES. I thought my old '87 W201 2.5 > Turbo was quick for a diesel. This thing would suck the headlights outta' the > 190D. Smokes like a Kenworth on kill when it's WFO, and chirps the rear tires > on a 1-2 shift. That pretty much goes along with what I've heard about the 603 powered 124s. Actually, a 3.0 603 in a w126 will get second gear scratch as well. The 603 liked to blow headgaskets when it got warm, and since you've seen how much aluminum is under the hood, you can imagine how incredibly expensive that would be to repair. The 3.5 was a warranty nightmare for mercedes, the 3.0 seems to be mostly reliable provided you keep in mind the fact that you have a ton of aluminum under the hood and keep the cooling system happy. If it's smoking a whole ton, it could be a little loose, or it could just be a mixture problem. Is the smoke black or bluish? If it's not gulping oil, it shouldn't be a hard fix, and could be fun. > This thing is a hoot. I may have to designate this my new beater.....after > all....I 've got all the parts.... heh. > I've never had any contact with this MB diesel engine......how long do they > last? Good or bad "track record"? It's not the 3.5, so I'd say you're probably in the clear. BTW, thanks for the comparison on the 190D 2.5T and the 300D. I was curious as to which had more get up and go. :) K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 23:55:43 -0700 From: "Derickam AA" Subject: Re: someone is selling my car :) Robert, Before I sold one of my 190's to Kevin, I had to choose daily which one to drive. If I was in a lazy mood it was the automatic, if I was feeling chipper 5 speed. Most of the time it was the 5 speed, it was sweet. The only reason why I sold the car is time constraints. I knew the tranny had to be replaced. Also the inside was subject to a heavy smoker in its past. ( I now added this question to the list when bidding on a car. ). I am afraid to drive a 300, else one might find its way into the fleet.... ;) Hopefully, the fall will allow time for me to continue with the restoration of the 84. The the choice will be "gold" or "silver" since they are both automatics. I may sell the 84 once completed because I am getting a little carried away...... :) Derick Amburgey Automated Control Specialist Port Of Seattle/SeaTac Airport/Satellite Train System Amateur Radio Callsign: K7DXX List "Mom" of Diesel-Benz reflector 1985 Mercedes 190D "Tuti" 280,000 Mi (36 mpg) 1984 Mercedes 190D "Charity" 160,000 Mi (in rehab) 1981 Volkswagen Caddy 1.6L 66,000 Mi (50 mpg) - ----Original Message Follows---- From: Robert Chase To: Derickam AA CC: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: someone is selling my car :) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 02:37:14 -0400 In pretty good shape too with low miles. It will be interesting to see what it finally goes for price wise. I looked at his photos a little closer. He is missing the headlight aim control on the dash and the wipers. His VIN is close to mine but his car is newer (mine was actually assembled in 1981 but is a 1982 model). If I had a job right now I think I would buy his car and call the pair the evil twins. Then again it would be a difficult decision which one to drive :) How do you decide which 190 to take Derick? Then again I notice one is in "rehab" so depending on what that means it might be an easy decision :) Robert Chase Derickam AA wrote: >Very nice! > >Derick Amburgey >Automated Control Specialist >Port Of Seattle/SeaTac Airport/Satellite Train System >Amateur Radio Callsign: K7DXX >List "Mom" of Diesel-Benz reflector >1985 Mercedes 190D "Tuti" 280,000 Mi (36 mpg) >1984 Mercedes 190D "Charity" 160,000 Mi (in rehab) >1981 Volkswagen Caddy 1.6L 66,000 Mi (50 mpg) > > > > >----Original Message Follows---- >From: Robert Chase >To: Diesel Benz >Subject: someone is selling my car :) >Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 18:14:19 -0400 > >have never seen one just like mine. This one is missing the wipers and >chrome plated wheels though :) > >Wonder if his lamp tilt works :) > >R. > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6330&item=2427619445 > > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1166 **********************************