From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #1175 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, August 20 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1175 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: W124 6-Banger Turbodiesel.... [John_Meister-at-beaerospace.com: nasty network outage...] RE: electrical gremlin - '82 300SD 190D Timing via locking pin. back on line... RE: electrical gremlin - '82 300SD Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 17:34:08 -0700 From: REisenhardt-at-AlienTechnology.com Subject: RE: W124 6-Banger Turbodiesel.... Jim I've got an '87 300 SDL with the OM603.961 motor. It's got 300k on it and still flies. My understanding is that if you're not careful, they overheat and blow head gaskets. Mine was replaced by the previous owner (as well as a turbo rebuild). Love the car, great on highways. Randy - -----Original Message----- From: Jim Steere [mailto:jim-at-msdra.com] Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 10:56 AM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: W124 6-Banger Turbodiesel.... Has anyone had any experience with a W124 with a 6-cylinder turbodiesel? I picked one up yesterday that I'd purchased sight unseen (planning to "part" it). It's got 237K and it absolutely FLIES. I thought my old '87 W201 2.5 Turbo was quick for a diesel. This thing would suck the headlights outta' the 190D. Smokes like a Kenworth on kill when it's WFO, and chirps the rear tires on a 1-2 shift. This thing is a hoot. I may have to designate this my new beater.....after all....I 've got all the parts.... I've never had any contact with this MB diesel engine......how long do they last? Good or bad "track record"? Jim Steere Everything Automotive Crystal, MI www.usedbenzparts.com (989)235-4000 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 17:34:48 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: [John_Meister-at-beaerospace.com: nasty network outage...] - ----- Forwarded message from John Meister ----- Subject: nasty network outage... To: kevin-at-mordred.punk.net From: John Meister Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 16:58:50 -0700 hey guys... in case you're wondering what happened, a Washington State mowing crew decided that the green box with Verizon equipment in it looked like weeds... around 11:30am the main link to the virtual-cafe.com and wagoneers.com got severed, just talked to the sys admin... it could be a few more hours. Kevin or Curtis, or both, if you could post to the fsj and diesel-benz list that I'll be off line for a while in case anyone tried to email... (don't include my phone numbers if you forward this. ;) BTW, heading to verizon wireless tonight to upgrade my phone to tri-mode and use it for work. Get to bump up my minutes and such... much nicer place to work... much more realistic then the last place. :) ttyl, john - ----- End forwarded message ----- - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 21:31:51 -0400 From: "Steve Morelen" Subject: RE: electrical gremlin - '82 300SD I think that the alternator can properly charge the battery even if the alternator warning lamp is defective. Steve Morelen >From: "Sam Williams" <1sam-at-io.com> >To: "'Aimino, Michael'" , > >Subject: RE: electrical gremlin - '82 300SD >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:06:00 -0500 > >Michael, > >The no-charge light circuit provides starting power to the alternator. >Once the alternator starts turning and generating, it provides its own >power and the light goes out. If the light is burnt out, the alternator >can't start charging. I think you found your problem. > >Sam > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On >Behalf Of Aimino, Michael >Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 8:40 AM >To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >Subject: RE: electrical gremlin - '82 300SD > >The battery warning light never comes on, even when the key is moved to the >pre-glow position. That had me scratching my head. > >All of the other dash lights, including the low fuel light, work as they >should. > >Perhaps a short inside the alternator? That's a possibility. Would that >show >up on the bench test? If not, that may be where the short is. For certain, >current is going somewhere, and it's not the battery. > >I made it into work today. 60 mile drive, the brake wear and brake lights >went >out after about 20 miles. I'll find out if it starts this afternoon. > >Thanks. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Steve Morelen [mailto:smorelen-at-hotmail.com] >Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 10:52 PM >To: maimino-at-alltel.net; diesel-benz-at-digest.net >Subject: Re: electrical gremlin - '82 300SD > > >Mike- >I'm suspicious of the alternator since the warning lights are a function of >engine speed...even though the alternator has been tested out of vehicle. >Those lights should not come on (with engine running) unless the alternator >output is low. What has the battery warning lamp and the low fuel lamp in >the dash been doing during this period of time? Does the battery lamp >light >when the key is in the run position with engine not running? The other >puzzle is: where the discharge path that kills the battery?...could be the >alternator. > >Steve Morelen > > > >From: "Michael Aimino" > >Reply-To: maimino-at-alltel.net > >To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > >Subject: Re: electrical gremlin - '82 300SD > >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 20:33:04 -0400 > > > >LOL - OK, that narrows it down. :) > > > >Here's the state of things: > > > >At 3000 rpm, the brake-related dash lights go out and the alternator > >shows 13.4 volts. > > > >I checked the body-to-engine strap for continuity - OK. Also checked > >for continuity along different paths - all OK. Starting checking for > >shorts - so far, so good. > > > >I'm going to finish checking for shorts. I'm also going to pull the > >fusebox and see what I can see there. All the fuses were removed, > >polished, and replaced, so the topside is OK. > > > >I'm going to drive it to work tomorrow and see what happens. Worse > >case, AAA gives me a ride home. And I'm late for dinner. > > > >Thank you to everyone for their suggestions. It's good to know you > >guys are out there. > > > >Mike > > > > > >On 18 Aug 03, at 15:40, john wrote: > > > > > On Mon, 18 Aug 2003, Michael Aimino wrote: > > > > > > >-->OK, I'll try that. > > > >--> > > > >-->Also, here's one thing I just thought of - the body to engine > > > >ground -->strap - anyone know where that's located on the 300SD? > > > > > > on the body and connects to the engine... ;) > > > > > > ok, ok, I believe it's attached near the battery box and over the > > > starter... > > > > > > john > > > >--> > > > >-->On 18 Aug 03, at 15:24, john wrote: > > > >--> > > > >-->> pull the battery and check the system with everything turned off > > > >-->> for shorts... then test various systems... -->> -->> could be > > > >corrosion in a connector, bad fuses, ??? -->> -->> john -->> -->> > > > >-->> On Mon, 18 Aug 2003, Michael Aimino wrote: -->> -->> >-->One > > > >additional bit of info - I tested the voltage at both the -->> > > > >>battery -->and the positive terms - 12.47v at idle. Now, I watched > > > >-->> >when it was -->tested earlier today, and both times it tested > > > >at 13.4 -->> >volts. --> -->Somewhere, somehow, I'm getting a voltage > > > >drop. --> -->> >-->On 18 Aug 03, at 14:34, john wrote: --> -->> > > > >elaborate a bit on: -->> >"The alternator tested OK." -->> -->> who, > > > >where and how was it -->> >tested? -->> -->> sounds like the internal > > > >regulator or one of the -->> >diodes is going out. -->> Especially > > > >since it kicks in when the RPM -->> >goes up... a bad diode in -->> > > > >the full wave bridge would work like -->> >that ... My guess is it's > > > >a -->> diode, but either way, it ain't -->> >right and a cheesy > > > >tester would -->> probably show it ok... needs to -->> >be put under > > > >load with an accurate -->> reading. -->> -->> if you -->> >went to a > > > >mc-parts place they may not have tested it under -->> -->> >load... > > > >there are testers to test it in the car too... -->> -->> -->> >john > > > >-->> -->> -->> On Mon, 18 Aug 2003, Michael Aimino wrote: -->> -->> > > > >>-->> >-->Hi. Need help with a 1982 300SD with a strange electrical > > > >-->> >problem. -->> >--> -->Tried to drive to work this morning, > > > >about 12 -->> >miles from home, -->> >I lost -->the headlights. > > > >Turned around and -->> >came home. --> -->The -->> >brake wear light > > > >and the brake light on -->> >the dash were lit. --> -->I -->> >pulled > > > >the alternator and the -->> >battery and had both tested. The -->> > > > >>-->alternator tested OK. The -->> >battery was dead - recharged and > > > >tested -->> >OK. --> -->I -->> >reinstalled the alternator and > > > >battery. --> -->I cleaned -->> >all -->> >the various grounds under > > > >the hood and the trunk. I -->cleaned -->> -->> >>the positive > > > >terminals on the fender. I cleaned the battery -->> >-->cables -->> > > > >>and battery posts. When I started the car, the brake -->> >wear > > > >-->light -->> >and the brake light were on, dim and flickering. -->> > > > >>If I rev the -->car -->> >to about 2.5k, both the brake wear light > > > >-->> >and the brake light go -->> >-->out. --> -->I've cleaned every > > > >ground -->> >and the positive terminals -->> >on the passenger > > > >-->fender. I've -->> >checked the fuses. My light bulbs -->> >are all > > > >OEM Mercedes -->> >-->bulbs. --> -->I'm thinking if I drive to work > > > >-->> >again -->> >tomorrow, the battery may go -->dead again, since > > > >nothing I've -->> -->> >>done has seemed to rectify the problem. --> > > > >-->Any ideas? Thanks in -->> >-->> >advance. --> -->> -->> ---- > > > >-->> -->> -->> > > > >>-------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >- -->> >- -->> --- -->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** -->> > > > >>http://freegift.net ** -->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where > > > >-->> >Jeeps don't rust, they mold. -->> Suggestions: email in plain > > > >text -->> >w/o attachments, and trust Jesus. -->> -->> > > > >>-------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >- -->> >- -->> --- The revolt is underway, -->> the penguin is > > > >coming... -->> > -->> I can hear the slap of his little feet... > > > >-->> and the -->> >squishing of worms and sco lawyers under > > > >them... -->> -->> > > > >>-------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >- -->> >- -->> --- --> -->> -->> ---- -->> -->> > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >- -->> --- -->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** > > > >http://freegift.net ** -->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where > > > >Jeeps don't rust, they mold. -->> Suggestions: email in plain text > > > >w/o attachments, and trust Jesus. -->> > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >- -->> --- The revolt is underway, -->> the penguin is coming... > > > > -->> I can hear the slap of his little feet... -->> and the > > > >squishing of worms and sco lawyers under them... -->> > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >- -->> --- --> --> --> > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > --- > > > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > > > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. > > > Suggestions: email in plain text w/o attachments, and trust Jesus. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > --- The revolt is underway, > > > the penguin is coming... > > > I can hear the slap of his little feet... > > > and the squishing of worms and sco lawyers under them... > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > --- > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month. >http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup _________________________________________________________________ Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 18:37:16 -0700 From: "Derickam AA" Subject: 190D Timing via locking pin. Hello, Here is another method to time the 190D 601 engine if you do not have the jig. I threw this together pretty quick so if there are errors I apologize. Please read carefully and realize this is a ball park adjustment, only the jig will get you spot on. I have heard the drip method will get you in the ball park as well, I have never done it though. As soon as my life becomes sane again I will be posting all the info I have on this car including diaries of two restorations. Since a round of layoffs is coming my load may increase even more.....if that is possible. The attachment is in MS word .doc format, sorry that is all I have to work with at my present location (work on lunch break). http://webpages.charter.net/derickam/190dtiming.doc Again sorry for the delay..... Derick Amburgey Automated Control Specialist Port Of Seattle/SeaTac Airport/Satellite Train System Amateur Radio Callsign: K7DXX List "Mom" of Diesel-Benz reflector 1985 Mercedes 190D "Tuti" 280,000 Mi (36 mpg) 1984 Mercedes 190D "Charity" 160,000 Mi (in rehab) 1981 Volkswagen Caddy 1.6L 66,000 Mi (50 mpg) _________________________________________________________________ Get MSN 8 and help protect your children with advanced parental controls. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:04:08 -0700 From: john Subject: back on line... back on line and heading out to upgrade my cell phone for work... here's the description of what happened... :) >Hi Everyone, > My apologies for all the circuit trouble today. I personally viewed the >Verizon silver switching canister that was torn to shreds by a State of >Washington ditch mower on Hiway 9 outside of Lords Hill in Snohomish. A >rainbow of colorful wires was exposed, but otherwise, a sad situation. > They replaced the unit as fast as they could and if anyone has any more >trouble please call the office or send in an email. john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 22:22:45 -0400 From: "Steve Morelen" Subject: RE: electrical gremlin - '82 300SD Mike- Your electrical problem is pretty interesting....and probably very annoying at the same time. You mentioned earlier that you saw 12.47 volts across the battery with the engine at idle speed. I think this is too low....sounds like nominal battery voltage with no charging device connected to the battery. Before that, you had seen 13.4 V...I wonder if the alternator is intermittent. In the interest of completeness, have you measured the cell electrolyte with a hydrometer to positively rule out any weirdness in the battery?....this doesn't help explain any of the warning lamp issues...it just seems like a good time to figure out the health of the entire charging/battery system. I'm suprised that the low fuel lamp doesn't behave like the brake warning lamp in terms of being on at the wrong time. Assuming that your 300SD is wired like my 84 300D (maybe a bad assumption)....those two lamps are wired the same in terms of how they can be turned on if the charging system output is not proper. Steve Morelen >From: "Aimino, Michael" >To: >Subject: RE: electrical gremlin - '82 300SD >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 09:39:31 -0400 > >The battery warning light never comes on, even when the key is moved to the >pre-glow position. That had me scratching my head. > >All of the other dash lights, including the low fuel light, work as they >should. > >Perhaps a short inside the alternator? That's a possibility. Would that >show >up on the bench test? If not, that may be where the short is. For certain, >current is going somewhere, and it's not the battery. > >I made it into work today. 60 mile drive, the brake wear and brake lights >went >out after about 20 miles. I'll find out if it starts this afternoon. > >Thanks. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Steve Morelen [mailto:smorelen-at-hotmail.com] >Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 10:52 PM >To: maimino-at-alltel.net; diesel-benz-at-digest.net >Subject: Re: electrical gremlin - '82 300SD > > >Mike- >I'm suspicious of the alternator since the warning lights are a function of >engine speed...even though the alternator has been tested out of vehicle. >Those lights should not come on (with engine running) unless the alternator >output is low. What has the battery warning lamp and the low fuel lamp in >the dash been doing during this period of time? Does the battery lamp >light >when the key is in the run position with engine not running? The other >puzzle is: where the discharge path that kills the battery?...could be the >alternator. > >Steve Morelen > > > >From: "Michael Aimino" > >Reply-To: maimino-at-alltel.net > >To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > >Subject: Re: electrical gremlin - '82 300SD > >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 20:33:04 -0400 > > > >LOL - OK, that narrows it down. :) > > > >Here's the state of things: > > > >At 3000 rpm, the brake-related dash lights go out and the alternator > >shows 13.4 volts. > > > >I checked the body-to-engine strap for continuity - OK. Also checked > >for continuity along different paths - all OK. Starting checking for > >shorts - so far, so good. > > > >I'm going to finish checking for shorts. I'm also going to pull the > >fusebox and see what I can see there. All the fuses were removed, > >polished, and replaced, so the topside is OK. > > > >I'm going to drive it to work tomorrow and see what happens. Worse > >case, AAA gives me a ride home. And I'm late for dinner. > > > >Thank you to everyone for their suggestions. It's good to know you > >guys are out there. > > > >Mike > > > > > >On 18 Aug 03, at 15:40, john wrote: > > > > > On Mon, 18 Aug 2003, Michael Aimino wrote: > > > > > > >-->OK, I'll try that. > > > >--> > > > >-->Also, here's one thing I just thought of - the body to engine > > > >ground -->strap - anyone know where that's located on the 300SD? > > > > > > on the body and connects to the engine... ;) > > > > > > ok, ok, I believe it's attached near the battery box and over the > > > starter... > > > > > > john > > > >--> > > > >-->On 18 Aug 03, at 15:24, john wrote: > > > >--> > > > >-->> pull the battery and check the system with everything turned off > > > >-->> for shorts... then test various systems... -->> -->> could be > > > >corrosion in a connector, bad fuses, ??? -->> -->> john -->> -->> > > > >-->> On Mon, 18 Aug 2003, Michael Aimino wrote: -->> -->> >-->One > > > >additional bit of info - I tested the voltage at both the -->> > > > >>battery -->and the positive terms - 12.47v at idle. Now, I watched > > > >-->> >when it was -->tested earlier today, and both times it tested > > > >at 13.4 -->> >volts. --> -->Somewhere, somehow, I'm getting a voltage > > > >drop. --> -->> >-->On 18 Aug 03, at 14:34, john wrote: --> -->> > > > >elaborate a bit on: -->> >"The alternator tested OK." -->> -->> who, > > > >where and how was it -->> >tested? -->> -->> sounds like the internal > > > >regulator or one of the -->> >diodes is going out. -->> Especially > > > >since it kicks in when the RPM -->> >goes up... a bad diode in -->> > > > >the full wave bridge would work like -->> >that ... My guess is it's > > > >a -->> diode, but either way, it ain't -->> >right and a cheesy > > > >tester would -->> probably show it ok... needs to -->> >be put under > > > >load with an accurate -->> reading. -->> -->> if you -->> >went to a > > > >mc-parts place they may not have tested it under -->> -->> >load... > > > >there are testers to test it in the car too... -->> -->> -->> >john > > > >-->> -->> -->> On Mon, 18 Aug 2003, Michael Aimino wrote: -->> -->> > > > >>-->> >-->Hi. Need help with a 1982 300SD with a strange electrical > > > >-->> >problem. -->> >--> -->Tried to drive to work this morning, > > > >about 12 -->> >miles from home, -->> >I lost -->the headlights. > > > >Turned around and -->> >came home. --> -->The -->> >brake wear light > > > >and the brake light on -->> >the dash were lit. --> -->I -->> >pulled > > > >the alternator and the -->> >battery and had both tested. The -->> > > > >>-->alternator tested OK. The -->> >battery was dead - recharged and > > > >tested -->> >OK. --> -->I -->> >reinstalled the alternator and > > > >battery. --> -->I cleaned -->> >all -->> >the various grounds under > > > >the hood and the trunk. I -->cleaned -->> -->> >>the positive > > > >terminals on the fender. I cleaned the battery -->> >-->cables -->> > > > >>and battery posts. When I started the car, the brake -->> >wear > > > >-->light -->> >and the brake light were on, dim and flickering. -->> > > > >>If I rev the -->car -->> >to about 2.5k, both the brake wear light > > > >-->> >and the brake light go -->> >-->out. --> -->I've cleaned every > > > >ground -->> >and the positive terminals -->> >on the passenger > > > >-->fender. I've -->> >checked the fuses. My light bulbs -->> >are all > > > >OEM Mercedes -->> >-->bulbs. --> -->I'm thinking if I drive to work > > > >-->> >again -->> >tomorrow, the battery may go -->dead again, since > > > >nothing I've -->> -->> >>done has seemed to rectify the problem. --> > > > >-->Any ideas? Thanks in -->> >-->> >advance. --> -->> -->> ---- > > > >-->> -->> -->> > > > >>-------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >- -->> >- -->> --- -->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** -->> > > > >>http://freegift.net ** -->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where > > > >-->> >Jeeps don't rust, they mold. -->> Suggestions: email in plain > > > >text -->> >w/o attachments, and trust Jesus. -->> -->> > > > >>-------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >- -->> >- -->> --- The revolt is underway, -->> the penguin is > > > >coming... -->> > -->> I can hear the slap of his little feet... > > > >-->> and the -->> >squishing of worms and sco lawyers under > > > >them... -->> -->> > > > >>-------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >- -->> >- -->> --- --> -->> -->> ---- -->> -->> > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >- -->> --- -->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** > > > >http://freegift.net ** -->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where > > > >Jeeps don't rust, they mold. -->> Suggestions: email in plain text > > > >w/o attachments, and trust Jesus. -->> > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >- -->> --- The revolt is underway, -->> the penguin is coming... > > > > -->> I can hear the slap of his little feet... -->> and the > > > >squishing of worms and sco lawyers under them... -->> > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >- -->> --- --> --> --> > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > --- > > > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > > > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. > > > Suggestions: email in plain text w/o attachments, and trust Jesus. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > --- The revolt is underway, > > > the penguin is coming... > > > I can hear the slap of his little feet... > > > and the squishing of worms and sco lawyers under them... > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > --- > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month. >http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1175 **********************************