From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #1176 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, August 20 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1176 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: 190D Timing RE: electrical gremlin - '82 300SD test Re: test RE: electrical gremlin - '82 300SD Re: test Re: State of the W123 Union RE: electrical gremlin - '82 300SD Re: State of the W123 Union Re: State of the W123 Union Re: test RE: State of the W123 Union RE: electrical gremlin - '82 300SD Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 21:53:08 -0700 From: john Subject: RE: 190D Timing showing the bolts up front... http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/190d-timing-cover.jpg john At 06:12 PM 8/19/2003 -0600, scott_haaland-at-agilent.com wrote: >Well, my commute is about 8 miles, and about half of that is on a 50mph >road...I probably have to stop at about 3 lights each way (avg), the other >half is freeway. The trip home was only getting 30.5 and 31, which was >all freeway...I was hoping for at least 33-35 on the road...I may need to >see if I can find some mercedes mechanic around here with that >tool....that may be the best option...in the meantime, I'll look for the >picture John put on the CD and see if I can figure that out. I just don't >want to break that locking mech thingy... > >R, >Scott >-- >Scott Haaland >Middleware Architect >IT | Information Technology >Agilent Technologies > >email: scott_haaland-at-agilent.com >phone: (916) 788-5233 >fax : (916) 788-5901 > >-----Original Message----- >From: Kevin Pekarek [mailto:kevin-at-mordred.punk.net] >Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 12:15 PM >To: scott_haaland-at-agilent.com >Cc: k7dxx-at-hotmail.com; john-at-wagoneers.com >Subject: Re: 190D Timing > > >On Tue, Aug 19, 2003 at 10:41:52AM -0600, scott_haaland-at-agilent.com wrote: > > Wow...sounds challenging...I'll have to find out from John what he was > > playing with. > > > > John, were you in the fine tuning stage of adjusting the screw on the > IP, or > > were you playing around with the crank? I only got 27.5 mpg on the last > > tank, so I think I need to reverse whatever adjustment you last made. > >IIRC, John's mileage went up after fiddling. It is highly possible that you >are just driving around town a lot more than John did - John lives in a >somewhat rural part of washington, and depending on what your commute is, you >might not be cruising as much as he was. Your mileage figures for your trip >home somewhat support that theory. > >For some reason, what I've read about 190D mileage is that they lose 7-9 mpg >when driven mostly around town. Fixing your timing will help out, but if you >are mostly driving around town (or in traffic that John was able to mostly >avoid while he had the car) you're probably not going to see the 35-36 mpg >that >automatics are capable of on a trip. > >I have no idea what my 190D gets around town, since I don't normally drive >around town all that much with it. I usually drive one of the jeeps on the >weekend, which is when most of my around town happens. > >K > >-- >Kevin Pekarek >Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and >Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) >85 190D (2.2, 5spd) - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:13:29 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: RE: electrical gremlin - '82 300SD When I had alternator problems last year, a local shop owner told me that if the battery warning light doesn't come on when the key is turned to the "on" position (not "start") that the alternator is not functioning. That is a key indicator. I'd suspect the alternator. Jim/ '83 240D > >From: "Aimino, Michael" > >To: > >Subject: RE: electrical gremlin - '82 300SD > >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 09:39:31 -0400 > > > >The battery warning light never comes on, even when the key is moved to the > >pre-glow position. That had me scratching my head. > > > >All of the other dash lights, including the low fuel light, work as they > >should. > > > >Perhaps a short inside the alternator? That's a possibility. Would that > >show > >up on the bench test? If not, that may be where the short is. For certain, > >current is going somewhere, and it's not the battery. > > > >I made it into work today. 60 mile drive, the brake wear and brake lights > >went > >out after about 20 miles. I'll find out if it starts this afternoon. > > > >Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:24:09 -0400 From: "Aimino, Michael" Subject: test email I'm sending to the list doesn't appear to be going through.... Mike Aimino Technical Writer II FreeMarkets, Inc. 210 Sixth Avenue Pittsburgh, PA 15222 (412) 297-7386 A.M.D.G. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:27:34 -0400 From: Mike Frank Subject: Re: test Well that one seems to have worked... Mike Frank At 10:24 AM 8/20/2003 -0400, Aimino, Michael wrote: >email I'm sending to the list doesn't appear to be going through.... > >Mike Aimino >Technical Writer II >FreeMarkets, Inc. >210 Sixth Avenue >Pittsburgh, PA 15222 >(412) 297-7386 > >A.M.D.G. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:51:35 -0400 From: "Aimino, Michael" Subject: RE: electrical gremlin - '82 300SD 4th attempt to send this... Well, the battery was dead by the time I got home last night. The brake warning lights were on, though very dim. I pulled the charging system warning light and it's fine. It doesn't come on, though. The fuel warning light might be on, albeit *very* dimly. I haven't checked it in the shade to see if it's on. I'll try that tonight. The alternator made 13.4v on the test bench. I tested/cleaned everything else, so I'm starting to think that despite his 35+ years of experience, my alternator man is wrong about the state of the alternator. Hey, nobody's perfect. Anyway, I brought my service manual CDs to work with me and I'll see what the wiring diagrams might tell me. I have a feeling I'm going to end up pulling the alternator again. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:31:20 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: test got it. john On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Aimino, Michael wrote: >-->email I'm sending to the list doesn't appear to be going through.... >--> >-->Mike Aimino >-->Technical Writer II >-->FreeMarkets, Inc. >-->210 Sixth Avenue >-->Pittsburgh, PA 15222 >-->(412) 297-7386 >--> >-->A.M.D.G. >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. Suggestions: email in plain text w/o attachments, and trust Jesus. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The revolt is underway, the penguin is coming... I can hear the slap of his little feet... and the squishing of worms and sco lawyers under them... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:22:55 +0100 From: Renaud OLGIATI Subject: Re: State of the W123 Union W123 has finally returned home, incredibly nice, beatiful and smooth-running. And with a Becker Grand Prix Electronic radio, much more fitting than the japanese rubbish that came with the car when I got it. Query: Is there anywhere on the net where I can download the manual for that radio ? Its full of buttons, with little indication on how it works ;-3( TIA, Cheers, Ron. - -- The complete lack of evidence is the surest sign that the conspiracy is working. -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:44:33 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: electrical gremlin - '82 300SD try swapping one in... I still think it's either the regulator flaking out because it tests good on the bench... otherwise I'd guess a diode. I've had these problems with alternators before... a regulator is silicon and can behave fine on a bench and wig out in real life... have your alternator guy heat the alternator up, under load, on the bench and see how it works. Hair dryer or propane torch to the case might invoke the symptoms. Don't disbelieve him, it may indeed test fine on the bench. john On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Aimino, Michael wrote: >-->4th attempt to send this... >--> >-->Well, the battery was dead by the time I got home last night. The brake >-->warning lights were on, though very dim. I pulled the charging system warning >-->light and it's fine. It doesn't come on, though. >--> >-->The fuel warning light might be on, albeit *very* dimly. I haven't checked it >-->in the shade to see if it's on. I'll try that tonight. >--> >-->The alternator made 13.4v on the test bench. I tested/cleaned everything else, >-->so I'm starting to think that despite his 35+ years of experience, my >-->alternator man is wrong about the state of the alternator. Hey, nobody's >-->perfect. >--> >-->Anyway, I brought my service manual CDs to work with me and I'll see what the >-->wiring diagrams might tell me. I have a feeling I'm going to end up pulling >-->the alternator again. >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. Suggestions: email in plain text w/o attachments, and trust Jesus. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The revolt is underway, the penguin is coming... I can hear the slap of his little feet... and the squishing of worms and sco lawyers under them... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:52:03 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: State of the W123 Union My "mercedes" cassette deck has the same functionality as my old Becker, same radio I think... I can take some pictures of the manual and post it on my server if I get time... I'm pulling mine out and putting japanese rubbish in that will actually work, has controls that aren't in klingon and will play cd's. :) I looked at getting the cd changer for this one, but I could buy 4 or 5 nice cd players that work... guess I'l look for an mp3/cd in dash unit. will preserve the stock wiring and radio in case I ever sell this one. have no fear fellow Benzites. :) john On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Renaud OLGIATI wrote: >-->W123 has finally returned home, incredibly nice, beatiful and smooth-running. >--> >-->And with a Becker Grand Prix Electronic radio, much more fitting than the >-->japanese rubbish that came with the car when I got it. >--> >-->Query: >-->Is there anywhere on the net where I can download the manual for that radio ? >--> >-->Its full of buttons, with little indication on how it works ;-3( >--> >-->TIA, >--> >-->Cheers, >--> >-->Ron. >-->-- >--> The complete lack of evidence is the surest sign >--> that the conspiracy is working. >--> >--> -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. Suggestions: email in plain text w/o attachments, and trust Jesus. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The revolt is underway, the penguin is coming... I can hear the slap of his little feet... and the squishing of worms and sco lawyers under them... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:55:04 -0400 From: Andrew_Strasfogel-at-blm.gov Subject: Re: State of the W123 Union Or go to http://www.beckerautosound.com or call them and ask to speak to Ed Ebel. john om> cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sent by: Subject: Re: State of the W123 Union owner-diesel-benz -at-digest.net 08/20/03 11:52 AM My "mercedes" cassette deck has the same functionality as my old Becker, same radio I think... I can take some pictures of the manual and post it on my server if I get time... I'm pulling mine out and putting japanese rubbish in that will actually work, has controls that aren't in klingon and will play cd's. :) I looked at getting the cd changer for this one, but I could buy 4 or 5 nice cd players that work... guess I'l look for an mp3/cd in dash unit. will preserve the stock wiring and radio in case I ever sell this one. have no fear fellow Benzites. :) john On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Renaud OLGIATI wrote: >-->W123 has finally returned home, incredibly nice, beatiful and smooth-running. >--> >-->And with a Becker Grand Prix Electronic radio, much more fitting than the >-->japanese rubbish that came with the car when I got it. >--> >-->Query: >-->Is there anywhere on the net where I can download the manual for that radio ? >--> >-->Its full of buttons, with little indication on how it works ;-3( >--> >-->TIA, >--> >-->Cheers, >--> >-->Ron. >-->-- >--> The complete lack of evidence is the surest sign >--> that the conspiracy is working. >--> >--> -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. Suggestions: email in plain text w/o attachments, and trust Jesus. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The revolt is underway, the penguin is coming... I can hear the slap of his little feet... and the squishing of worms and sco lawyers under them... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:40:37 -0500 From: "Kaleb C. Striplin" Subject: Re: test I see it just fine Aimino, Michael wrote: > email I'm sending to the list doesn't appear to be going through.... > > Mike Aimino > Technical Writer II > FreeMarkets, Inc. > 210 Sixth Avenue > Pittsburgh, PA 15222 > (412) 297-7386 > > A.M.D.G. > > - -- Kaleb C. Striplin/ Claremore, OK Mercedes-Benz Club of America Member Since 1991 MBZ.org Diesel/LL/123/124 List Administrator 89 560SEL, 85 300SD, 85 380SE, 84 380SE, 82 300D, 81 500SE, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 79 450SEL, 77 300D, 76 240D Parts Cars: 84 300TD, 84 300D, 82 240D, 81 300SD, 81 300TD, 79 240D, 78 300SD, 78 300D, 77 300D 76 300D, 75 240D, 75 240D ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:44:16 -0500 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: State of the W123 Union If the Becker is close to the original type, I think it's operation is covered in the regular owners manual for the car, reprints of which should be available from 1-800-FOR-MERC. Alec > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Renaud OLGIATI > Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 5:23 AM > To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: State of the W123 Union > > > W123 has finally returned home, incredibly nice, beatiful and > smooth-running. > > And with a Becker Grand Prix Electronic radio, much more fitting than the > japanese rubbish that came with the car when I got it. > > Query: > Is there anywhere on the net where I can download the manual for > that radio ? > > Its full of buttons, with little indication on how it works ;-3( > > TIA, > > Cheers, > > Ron. > -- > The complete lack of evidence is the surest sign > that the conspiracy is working. > > -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:53:10 -0400 From: "Aimino, Michael" Subject: RE: electrical gremlin - '82 300SD Unfortunately, my stock of alternators went west with Jim Steere. I'm going to pull the alternator tonight and see what the repairman says. - -----Original Message----- From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 11:45 AM To: Aimino, Michael Cc: Diesel Benz List (E-mail) Subject: RE: electrical gremlin - '82 300SD try swapping one in... I still think it's either the regulator flaking out because it tests good on the bench... otherwise I'd guess a diode. I've had these problems with alternators before... a regulator is silicon and can behave fine on a bench and wig out in real life... have your alternator guy heat the alternator up, under load, on the bench and see how it works. Hair dryer or propane torch to the case might invoke the symptoms. Don't disbelieve him, it may indeed test fine on the bench. john On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Aimino, Michael wrote: >-->4th attempt to send this... >--> >-->Well, the battery was dead by the time I got home last night. The brake >-->warning lights were on, though very dim. I pulled the charging system warning >-->light and it's fine. It doesn't come on, though. >--> >-->The fuel warning light might be on, albeit *very* dimly. I haven't checked it >-->in the shade to see if it's on. I'll try that tonight. >--> >-->The alternator made 13.4v on the test bench. I tested/cleaned everything else, >-->so I'm starting to think that despite his 35+ years of experience, my >-->alternator man is wrong about the state of the alternator. Hey, nobody's >-->perfect. >--> >-->Anyway, I brought my service manual CDs to work with me and I'll see what the >-->wiring diagrams might tell me. I have a feeling I'm going to end up pulling >-->the alternator again. >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. Suggestions: email in plain text w/o attachments, and trust Jesus. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The revolt is underway, the penguin is coming... I can hear the slap of his little feet... and the squishing of worms and sco lawyers under them... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1176 **********************************