From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Wed Aug 27 08:20:27 2003 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, August 27 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1191 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: tranny quote ( I sence trouble looming) Re: tranny quote ( I sence trouble looming) Re: tranny quote ( I sence trouble looming) 82 300D turbo update Re: 82 300D turbo update floor mats Re: 82 300D turbo update 82 300D turbo update Re: Looking at '85 190D, 360K miles, $1500 Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:18:42 -0700 (PDT) From: hue wong Subject: tranny quote ( I sence trouble looming) - -If it bucks during a shift, the - -trans is on its way out - --------------- MMMM Mine has a medium buck to it from 1 to 2 and has an odd surge/slip from 2-3) I was hopping it was a loose vacume lines or some such (the door locks are a bit slow)but it sounds like my worst fears are realized! Although when I drive it like a race car it shifts smooth, only at slow speeds (old man driving) do I notice the problems. Any idea on what the cost on a rebuild for a unit like this would be? ('82 300td) I have a 90 warrenty on the motor and drive train, what should I look for to prove the tranny is on the way out to the car lot I bought it from ( as you know they'll fight it tooth and nail!) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 12:13:32 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: tranny quote ( I sence trouble looming) On Tue, Aug 26, 2003 at 11:18:42AM -0700, hue wong wrote: > -If it bucks during a shift, the > -trans is on its way out > --------------- > MMMM Mine has a medium buck to it from 1 to 2 and has > an odd surge/slip from 2-3) I was hopping it was a > loose vacume lines or some such (the door locks are a > bit slow)but it sounds like my worst fears are > realized! > Although when I drive it like a race car it shifts > smooth, only at slow speeds (old man driving) do I > notice the problems. > > Any idea on what the cost on a rebuild for a unit like > this would be? ('82 300td) I have a 90 warrenty on the > motor and drive train, what should I look for to prove > the tranny is on the way out to the car lot I bought > it from ( as you know they'll fight it tooth and > nail!) Hue, That was supposed to be a 190D specific comment, as that is the easiest way to know if the tranny is going out I can't speak for a w123 (or w126/w116) transmission, the one that I drove was a little loose from 3-4, but I'm told that's an adjustment and not anything major. I'll let someone else speak on your 123 tranny. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 12:48:45 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: tranny quote ( I sence trouble looming) sounds like a normal 123/126 slipshift into 2-3 to me. info on adjusting it on my server... vacuum related gunk on topo fhthe valve cover too... fear not... you're fine... john On Tue, 26 Aug 2003, hue wong wrote: >-->-If it bucks during a shift, the >-->-trans is on its way out >-->--------------- >-->MMMM Mine has a medium buck to it from 1 to 2 and has >-->an odd surge/slip from 2-3) I was hopping it was a >-->loose vacume lines or some such (the door locks are a >-->bit slow)but it sounds like my worst fears are >-->realized! >-->Although when I drive it like a race car it shifts >-->smooth, only at slow speeds (old man driving) do I >-->notice the problems. >--> >-->Any idea on what the cost on a rebuild for a unit like >-->this would be? ('82 300td) I have a 90 warrenty on the >-->motor and drive train, what should I look for to prove >-->the tranny is on the way out to the car lot I bought >-->it from ( as you know they'll fight it tooth and >-->nail!) >--> >--> >-->__________________________________ >-->Do you Yahoo!? >-->Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software >-->http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. Suggestions: email in plain text w/o attachments, and trust Jesus. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The revolt is underway, the penguin is coming... I can hear the slap of his little feet... and the squishing of worms and sco lawyers under them... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 21:34:47 -0700 From: "Derickam AA" Subject: 82 300D turbo update Well guys I here by declare my virus officially dead. Woke up this morning feeling like part of the human race, felt so good I even did my workout. Anyhow now that the virus is gone. I have been planning my trip to So Cal to deal with the 82 300. I would like to pose this question to any 123 owners out there. If you were going to drive this car 1200 mi North from San Diego to Seattle. What kind of care package of parts would you take with you? I know what I would take for the 190: Belt, spare injector line for parts. Spare diesel container, wrenches, screwdrivers, pliers socket set. Jumper cables, oil, water for Misc. Also, how hard would it be to plug up the capillary tube to the oil pressure gauge at the engine? Would it be possible to block off all vaccuum lines except the one going to the fuel shut off valve till I get home? Is the hood release cable hard to replace? (I am confused as to why my cousins husband did not replace it and I am giving him the benefit of the doubt.) I have to repair the windsheild and tires to make it safe to drive but I want to defer as many repairs as I can till I get home. Any tips unique to the handling of the car. I was going to throw on a set of Michelins Mv4's on while I was getting the windshield replaced. Mv4 works pretty good on the 190 have any of you ran them on the 300? Thanks for the tips so far, and Kevin I promise not to deliberately break down in your neck of the woods. If I drive by your area at a sane time I would like to drop in and say howdy and check out your fleet. Since I am traveling the I-5 corridor I would be happy to pick up anything along the way and deliver it if you are on the way as long as it will fit in the 300. ;) Oh yeah what time of year does Grants pass get trashed? Derick Amburgey Automated Control Specialist Port Of Seattle/SeaTac Airport/Satellite Train System Amateur Radio Callsign: K7DXX List "Mom" of Diesel-Benz reflector 1985 Mercedes 190D "Tuti" 280,000 Mi (36 mpg) 1984 Mercedes 190D "Charity" 160,000 Mi (in rehab) 1981 Volkswagen Caddy 1.6L 66,000 Mi (50 mpg) _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 01:24:02 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: 82 300D turbo update Hey, Glad to know your doing better. Here is what I would carry in addition to your list. - -Fire extinguisher - -Fuel Filters - -Lubromolly diesel purge (do a purge right after you start it and one - -when you get home) - -Windshield wiper blades (they are probably dry rotted) - -Spare lamps/Headlights (dont want any tickets) - -Fuses - -Diapers (stuff one under the dash to collect the oil from your leak and change your car's diaper when it needs it) - -Digital Camera (we would love photos of your trek) Since that car has been sitting for a while you may run into a nasty scenerio of the car starts and drives fine and then the crud in the fuel tank clogs the prefilter and your dead on the road. I would suggest going to a truck stop and using one of the "BIG" high speed nozzles to fuel the car for your trip. This is going to BLAST fuel into the tank and knock loose any crusty bits and let them get sucked into the filter. While it may mean a filter change its better to expect it to happen than to be suprised (think in the middle of a rain storm). Your not only transporting this car but your doing an Italian tuneup on it at the same time. Dont expect to be able to fix the shutoff problem in a few minutes. I would get some rubber straps to hold the hood down on the trip and leave it running for pit stops and such. You can remove the key and lock the door. I did that frequently on my SD before I had it repaired. Not sure if its legal but you may want to remove the hood completely if its badly damaged. Just save the grille and toss the rest. It will make your shutoff problem easier. Would give it that mad max sort of look :) Good luck on the trip and dont forget to check your spare. I had an unfortunate experience with a brand new tire shredding itself on the expressway. Went into the trunk and found a flat dry rotted spare covered in mold. My suggestion would be to buy 4 brand new tires and a used spare. Too many service shops dont rotate tires correctly with a 5 tire system so I carry a used on in the trunk and just let them rotate the 4 main tires. The used tire ususally sends a message to the ones that rotate correctly :). Robert Chase Derickam AA wrote: > Well guys I here by declare my virus officially dead. > > Woke up this morning feeling like part of the human race, felt so good I > even did my workout. > > Anyhow now that the virus is gone. I have been planning my trip to So > Cal to deal with the 82 300. > > I would like to pose this question to any 123 owners out there. > > If you were going to drive this car 1200 mi North from San Diego to > Seattle. What kind of care package of parts would you take with you? I > know what I would take for the 190: > > Belt, spare injector line for parts. > > Spare diesel container, wrenches, screwdrivers, pliers socket set. > Jumper cables, oil, water for Misc. > > Also, how hard would it be to plug up the capillary tube to the oil > pressure gauge at the engine? > > Would it be possible to block off all vaccuum lines except the one going > to the fuel shut off valve till I get home? > > Is the hood release cable hard to replace? (I am confused as to why my > cousins husband did not replace it and I am giving him the benefit of > the doubt.) > > I have to repair the windsheild and tires to make it safe to drive but I > want to defer as many repairs as I can till I get home. > > Any tips unique to the handling of the car. I was going to throw on a > set of Michelins Mv4's on while I was getting the windshield replaced. > Mv4 works pretty good on the 190 have any of you ran them on the 300? > > Thanks for the tips so far, and Kevin I promise not to deliberately > break down in your neck of the woods. If I drive by your area at a sane > time I would like to drop in and say howdy and check out your fleet. > > Since I am traveling the I-5 corridor I would be happy to pick up > anything along the way and deliver it if you are on the way as long as > it will fit in the 300. ;) > > Oh yeah what time of year does Grants pass get trashed? > > Derick Amburgey > Automated Control Specialist > Port Of Seattle/SeaTac Airport/Satellite Train System > Amateur Radio Callsign: K7DXX > List "Mom" of Diesel-Benz reflector > 1985 Mercedes 190D "Tuti" 280,000 Mi (36 mpg) > 1984 Mercedes 190D "Charity" 160,000 Mi (in rehab) > 1981 Volkswagen Caddy 1.6L 66,000 Mi (50 mpg) > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 02:08:26 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: floor mats Hey, Anybody know where one could buy one or two floor mats? My rear mats are in great shape and Im a cheap skate :) Robert Chase ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 23:20:23 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: 82 300D turbo update On Tue, Aug 26, 2003 at 09:34:47PM -0700, Derickam AA wrote: > Well guys I here by declare my virus officially dead. Well, glad you're feeling better. > If you were going to drive this car 1200 mi North from San Diego to > Seattle. What kind of care package of parts would you take with you? I know > what I would take for the 190: > > Belt, spare injector line for parts. > > Spare diesel container, wrenches, screwdrivers, pliers socket set. > Jumper cables, oil, water for Misc. Like Robert said, spare fuel filters are going to be a MUST. You can leave the American Express at home, but don't travel in an old diesel that has sat for a while without fuel filters. They are too cheap and too small to leave at home. I'd probably throw an HT and a repeater directory, since I do not have continuous cellular reception between here and san diego along I-5. You have water and coolant, I would also bring something along to bypass the heater core if need be. You are more than likely going to hit traffic going through LA (I have at 3AM on a sunday morning). Make sure your cooling system is working well enough to deal with traffic on a 100 degree day. You may also want to keep some tranny fluid and/or lucas transmission fluid stuff in case you find yourself low and slipping (well, slipping more than those trannies normally do). > Also, how hard would it be to plug up the capillary tube to the oil > pressure gauge at the engine? I don't imagine it will be that difficult, I probably would find a brass plug that has the same thread pitch and diameter. > I have to repair the windsheild and tires to make it safe to drive but I > want to defer as many repairs as I can till I get home. > > Any tips unique to the handling of the car. I was going to throw on a set > of Michelins Mv4's on while I was getting the windshield replaced. Mv4 > works pretty good on the 190 have any of you ran them on the 300? I can't speak for 123s, but from personal experience and the recent thread on the list, michelins seem overpriced for what they deliver. > Thanks for the tips so far, and Kevin I promise not to deliberately break > down in your neck of the woods. If I drive by your area at a sane time I > would like to drop in and say howdy and check out your fleet. Unfortunately, most of the fleet is in San Luis Obispo County. Right now, the ambassador, the country squire, the patrol car, the two jeeps, and the 190D are in the bay area. The REALLY weird stuff (diesel pacer, buick sportwagon, hornet with gucci interior, and the eagles) are all in SLO. This may change, depending on when your trip is. Either way, the offer is still there if you need it :) > Since I am traveling the I-5 corridor I would be happy to pick up anything > along the way and deliver it if you are on the way as long as it will fit > in the 300. ;) Unfortunately, most of the stuff you want is not in california. The 190 proof everclear isn't available in california, the good stuff for cleaning out gas engines while they're running isn't anymore, well... you get the idea. I could point you to a couple of good breweries on your way, but that would probably slow your trip down too much :) > Oh yeah what time of year does Grants pass get trashed? Trashed? K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 23:23:13 -0700 From: "Derickam AA" Subject: 82 300D turbo update Hello all, Is the haynes manual for this car any good? I thought I had it but I have the 114/115 chasis one. I need to brief myself on this thing, I hate going in cold. Thanks for the additional items suggestions, I will take them to heart. Derick Amburgey Automated Control Specialist Port Of Seattle/SeaTac Airport/Satellite Train System Amateur Radio Callsign: K7DXX List "Mom" of Diesel-Benz reflector 1985 Mercedes 190D "Tuti" 280,000 Mi (36 mpg) 1984 Mercedes 190D "Charity" 160,000 Mi (in rehab) 1981 Volkswagen Caddy 1.6L 66,000 Mi (50 mpg) _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 00:41:05 -0600 (MDT) From: Gary Shea Subject: Re: Looking at '85 190D, 360K miles, $1500 Thanks to everyone who has given me hints about the car, it's been a big help! I went and looked at it today. It appears to still be a 2.2, definitely no Jeep parts in there. Not muddy enough. So here's a list of what I found: - - 363k miles - - 2.2L, sure enough, says it on the trunk - - wow, mercedes diesel engines are big! cool... - - rides ok - - at 20mph, cold, flooring it causes a 'pause' followed by very very gradual acceleration... makes my '82 diesel rabbit feel like a race car, despite 230K and way-below-spec compression... - - on a busy slightly downhill street, after a 10 minute warm-up or so, got up to 45 in reasonable style with the pedal floored. - - ordinary shifts feel sling-shot'y, big delay between shift-out, shift-in, worst at low speeds, low acceleration - - can't find a switch for the sunroof!? or if that thing in the upper left hand part of the dash is it, it don't do nuthin... - - driver's back door power window doesn't work - - driver's mirror adjustment handle broken off - - windshield cracked right down the middle! - - timing belt shows lots of medium cracking on the inner ridges - - timing belt hanging half off the tensioner - - oil leaking from oil (tranny?) cooler line to radiator, possibly also from the front pass. side of the head. Solid mass of oily dirt, hard to tell... - - right front running light (towards the center from the headlight) busted and rusted beyond hope of repair - - rear tires brand new, front ones have a couple years left in 'em - - substantial dent in trunk on the curve, but no kinks in the metal, paint is cracking and rust beginning - - small paint chips in quantity, hood, and near rear tires. no serious rust yet - - a little rust, still surface, inside driver's rear door - - passenger and rear seat look good - - driver seat is hammered, holes, no cushion at all under butt - - boots gone on both front struts - - dash is a mass of cracks running front to rear - - driver's door armrest has hole in it, lots of cracking in the door covering on the flat area near the window - - antenna is broken, but a replacement is in the trunk (!) - - driver's door makes loud snapping noises in two places when opened and closed, seems to come from the bar that sticks into the door and should hold it open (if you know what I mean...) I guess I have to ask: what is this car worth in perfect condition? Because that looks to me like a couple K to get through the list, if I'm lucky. That's an off the cuff estimate, assuming I do all the labor (except the windshield!!!). Sound reasonable or am I under-estimating? Tomorrow I'll do a search to find out if the 1.9D/2.2L was available with a 5-speed... mebbe I should find one of those instead. I liked the size and feel of the car, so even if I don't buy this one I think I'll keep looking for one... Cheers, Gary [2003-08-25 14:01 -0700] DerickAA (k7dxx-at-hotmail.com) wrote: > If it is 1985 it is a 2.2l , unless John got a hold of it. In which case > anything from a jeep inline 4.0L to a mercedes 3.0l turbo may be in it. This > should be evident by the lift kit that would also be installed...... ;) > > The tranny is the big concern, $1300 for a rebulid and DIY. Tranny shop will > cost ya $3500. :-o > > If the AC works be surprised/delighted. The Nippondenso bastardized crap > they put in it was designed, I think, by the same people who designed the > timing chain cover. > The timing chain cover is the weak spot of the engine. I would not be > suprised if you found an epoxy patch job in about the 6 oclock crankshaft > position on the timing chain cover. Run your finger down there. If your ac > does work I recommend using it often to keep it that way. > The blower motor for the heater appears to be pretty easy to replace, and is > accessed on the outside on the car underneath the windshield plastic cowling > that covers the heater box and the wiper motor assy (the cover the blower is > behind looks like Mae West, You will know what I am talking about when you > see it). About a 3 hour job at worst. Find the oil leak, it may be coming > out of the front seal for reason mentioned earlier. > More than likley it is coming from the pan. If it is coming from the > head........I hope you have your nikies on and your present vehicle running > with the door open for a quick get away. It is a serious job replacing the > head it is aluminum and likes to warp if abused. The 85 heads are cheaper > than the 84. It depends on the casting number on your engine block. One is > $500 one is $800. I have both of them and to be honest my eyes cannot tell > the difference.Would I swap one for the other? NO WAY...... > > If you have any specific questions feel free to ask. Other than the rear > suspension, I cannot think of a part of the car I have not skinned my > knuckles on. > $1500 is a fair price though, if what you have reported are the only issues. > If you have you heart set on a 190d I may have one for sale here fall/winter > time frame in the $2500-$3000 price range (engine was just rebuilt) or I may > have a 82 123 TD for sale. We will see. > > Sorry if the tone of this Email is a little raw, I just found out they (our > beloved nannies) want to impose a 10 cent a cup tax on coffee to pay for > Daycare of low in come folks. What does one have to do with the other Whats > next a tax on Salmon to fund literacy..... Sheesh. > > Well it could be worse, I could have a clunker 123 in San Diego to fix... ;) > > If anyone could lend me a copy of you 123 TD service CD rom I would be much > obliged, I will buy my own legit copy if I decide to keep the car. I do not > want to pay $150 for something I may not keep. > > Derick > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kevin Pekarek" > To: "Gary Shea" > Cc: > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 12:37 PM > Subject: Re: Looking at '85 190D, 360K miles, $1500 > > > > On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 12:15:23PM -0600, Gary Shea wrote: > > > I'm a total Mercedes innocent, but am looking at the car in the Subject: > > > line. > > > > > > I haven't seen the car yet, but the owner says the car has a "minor" oil > > > leak (?) and needs a new heater blower motor. On the plus side, it has > > > new tires, power locks (not sure about windows), a/c that supposedly was > > > working until the heater blower died, and a sunroof. They don't know if > > > it's a 2.2 or 2.5L. > > > > > > >From looking at the archives, I have seen little mention of a diesel > > > with 350+K... should I even be looking at it? I'm looking for a car to > > > drive for a couple of years, don't mind some medium-serious maintenance > > > but don't want to have to do an engine rebuild. > > > > The power locks are more likely vacuum controlled, so they're automatic, > > but not necessarily power. (then again, power brakes are vacuum assisted, > so > > what do I know?). If it's an 85, it's a 2.2. There should be something on > the > > trunk on the passenger side saying so. The 2.2L was a four cylinder, and > the > > 2.5L was a five cylinder, so worse comes to worse, pop the hood and count > > injectors. > > > > I don't know how much of a pain the heater blower is to replace, but it's > > supposedly a real nightmare on a w124 (one car bigger than a 190, but > looks > > the same, only bigger). I don't expect it to be a fun replacement. > > > > I wouldn't be nervous of the engine having 350k on it, espeically if it > was > > taken care of. When the miles get high on a not-well-taken-care-of engine, > > they start to get loose and burn oil. This will be fairly obvious. > > > > The dangerous part with that car is the transmission - the automatics in > the > > 190D are rather expensive to rebuild. If it bucks during a shift, the > trans > > is on its way out (and in the words of Derick, "put your wallet in your > front > > pocket and run"). Oh, and when a ball joint fails, it fails spectacularly. > > AMHIK :) > > > > Minor oil leaks don't bother me any (then again, I also own jeeps), but > the > > soot in diesel oil likes to stain and not come out. There's a bunch of > > possibilities for what it could be. > > > > Sounds like a cool car, let us know what happens. > > > > K > > > > -- > > Kevin Pekarek > > Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and > > Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) > > 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1191 **********************************