From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Wed Aug 27 10:03:49 2003 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, August 27 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1192 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: Looking at '85 190D, 360K miles, $1500 Re: Looking at '85 190D, 360K miles, $1500 Lubromoly procedure on a 616? Re: Lubromoly procedure on a 616? Re: Looking at '85 190D, 360K miles, $1500 Re: 82 300D turbo update RE: 82 300D turbo update Re: 82 300D turbo update Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 00:49:16 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: Looking at '85 190D, 360K miles, $1500 On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 12:41:05AM -0600, Gary Shea wrote: > - at 20mph, cold, flooring it causes a 'pause' followed by very very gradual > acceleration... makes my '82 diesel rabbit feel like a race car, > despite 230K and way-below-spec compression... I've heard that about rabbit diesels though. > - on a busy slightly downhill street, after a 10 minute warm-up or so, > got up to 45 in reasonable style with the pedal floored. Mine gets up to speed pretty quickly, but I have a five speed. > - ordinary shifts feel sling-shot'y, big delay between shift-out, > shift-in, worst at low speeds, low acceleration That sounds about like what I've heard. Haven't driven an automatic for myself yet though. > - can't find a switch for the sunroof!? or if that thing in the upper > left hand part of the dash is it, it don't do nuthin... above the center vents on the dash are three switches. The center one is the sunroof. The label is probably gone by now. > - driver's back door power window doesn't work If the passenger front also doesn't work, it's a fuse. Otherwise, it's a switch or something more painful. With the button between the two left window switches on the console by the shifter DOWN, try to use the switch on the door itself to rule out a bad switch. Of course, you could have two bad switches. > - driver's mirror adjustment handle broken off DOH > - windshield cracked right down the middle! double DOH > - timing belt shows lots of medium cracking on the inner ridges > - timing belt hanging half off the tensioner Timing belt? A 2.2 is chain driven. . . Do you mean the serpentine belt? > - oil leaking from oil (tranny?) cooler line to radiator, possibly also > from the front pass. side of the head. Solid mass of oily dirt, hard > to tell... There is an oil cooler on a 2.2, but if it goes into the radiator, it is more likely a tranny cooler line. > - right front running light (towards the center from the headlight) > busted and rusted beyond hope of repair > - rear tires brand new, front ones have a couple years left in 'em > - substantial dent in trunk on the curve, but no kinks in the metal, > paint is cracking and rust beginning > - small paint chips in quantity, hood, and near rear tires. no serious > rust yet > - a little rust, still surface, inside driver's rear door So the body is pretty far from perfect, but it'll do for a driver for a while. How bad does the rust monster attack in your part of the country? > - driver seat is hammered, holes, no cushion at all under butt common problem with mercedes driver's seats. > - boots gone on both front struts I never install those darn things. > - driver's door makes loud snapping noises in two places when opened > and closed, seems to come from the bar that sticks into the door and > should hold it open (if you know what I mean...) Probably needs to be lubed, AMHIK :) > I guess I have to ask: what is this car worth in perfect condition? > Because that looks to me like a couple K to get through the list, if I'm > lucky. That's an off the cuff estimate, assuming I do all the labor > (except the windshield!!!). Sound reasonable or am I under-estimating? Well, I think you have to decide if you are going to restore it or not. There is a lot of rust to deal with there, and frankly, the body on my 190D is in better shape (even though it lived in massachusetts for years before being liberated from the evil clutches of the rust monster). I'd say that 190D you are looking at is worth a grand tops, unless you really really like it. Then again, I live in california, and rusty cars are pretty uncommon. 190Ds in excellent shape fetch $5-6k out here, but that is with a perfect, rust free body, and a clean interior. > Tomorrow I'll do a search to find out if the 1.9D/2.2L was available > with a 5-speed... mebbe I should find one of those instead. oh yeah. they make five speeds, I have one. They're a little harder to find, but the five speed really makes the car. > I liked the size and feel of the car, so even if I don't buy this one I > think I'll keep looking for one... 190Ds are a blast, especially the five speed. I am more than pleased with mine. I want to drive an automatic one for comparison, but will probably just hold out for a 190DT :) K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 03:54:57 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: Looking at '85 190D, 360K miles, $1500 Gary Shea wrote: > Thanks to everyone who has given me hints about the car, it's been a big > help! > > I went and looked at it today. It appears to still be a 2.2, definitely > no Jeep parts in there. Not muddy enough. > > So here's a list of what I found: > > - 363k miles > - 2.2L, sure enough, says it on the trunk > - wow, mercedes diesel engines are big! cool... > - rides ok > - at 20mph, cold, flooring it causes a 'pause' followed by very very gradual > acceleration... makes my '82 diesel rabbit feel like a race car, > despite 230K and way-below-spec compression... > - on a busy slightly downhill street, after a 10 minute warm-up or so, > got up to 45 in reasonable style with the pedal floored. Hmmm Some cars can be brought back to life with diesel purge but this may be status quo for the 190 diesels. I have never driven one personally. Just a hint. Mercedes Diesels don't like to be suddenly floored. Bad things happen sometimes. My brother destroyed the half shaft on his car and is listening it to it click click click when he drives it. I have another friend who was transporting a 300SD for his father and floored it in an emergency and lost an engine in the process. While they may seem slow and poky they have a lot of torque. > - ordinary shifts feel sling-shot'y, big delay between shift-out, > shift-in, worst at low speeds, low acceleration > - can't find a switch for the sunroof!? or if that thing in the upper > left hand part of the dash is it, it don't do nuthin... Fuse? Motor? Switch? My 300SD's motor transmission is shot. I think the part is 300 bucks for a new motor and transmission setup. Its probably a fuse or switch if you dont hear any grinding or if your instruments dont dim. > - driver's back door power window doesn't work Do you hear it whirring? If so its a .50cent piece of plastic on the w-126 not sure how they do the w-124 windows. > - driver's mirror adjustment handle broken of > - windshield cracked right down the middle! > - timing belt shows lots of medium cracking on the inner ridges > - timing belt hanging half off the tensioner Timing belt? I thought the 190 was chain driven. I might be wrong but if you can see a belt in the engine its more than likely the main serpentine belt that runs the Water Pump and alternator. > - oil leaking from oil (tranny?) cooler line to radiator, possibly also > from the front pass. side of the head. Solid mass of oily dirt, hard > to tell... > - right front running light (towards the center from the headlight) > busted and rusted beyond hope of repair Parts for these cars are common. You can get clear marker lamps (if you like those) on ebay as well as the OEM style. > - rear tires brand new, front ones have a couple years left in 'em > - substantial dent in trunk on the curve, but no kinks in the metal, > paint is cracking and rust beginning > - small paint chips in quantity, hood, and near rear tires. no serious > rust yet > - a little rust, still surface, inside driver's rear door > - passenger and rear seat look good > - driver seat is hammered, holes, no cushion at all under butt Its a common practice to swap driver and passenger seats. You have to take them off the track which is a slight complexity with electric seats but a car battery will help you move the seats without them being connected to the car. > - boots gone on both front struts > - dash is a mass of cracks running front to rear They have "caps" for the w-126 but im not sure about the w-124 > - driver's door armrest has hole in it, lots of cracking in the door > covering on the flat area near the window > - antenna is broken, but a replacement is in the trunk (!) > - driver's door makes loud snapping noises in two places when opened > and closed, seems to come from the bar that sticks into the door and > should hold it open (if you know what I mean...) Easy replacement. You can get the part in a lot of places. > > I guess I have to ask: what is this car worth in perfect condition? > Because that looks to me like a couple K to get through the list, if I'm > lucky. That's an off the cuff estimate, assuming I do all the labor > (except the windshield!!!). Sound reasonable or am I under-estimating? > Hmmm...... What color is the interior? If its an oddball color you may find it difficult to get used parts. Blue Red and Brown are uncommon interior colors while Gray and Palomino are more common. If you have a common Interior color you can probably find parts easily. The uncommon interior parts are harder to find but somtimes cheaper due to the supply demand stuff. The general consensus of the list is a cheap Mercedes is an expensive one. Sounds like this car has just seen better times. If you like the car and are willing to spend the money go for it. I think you could bring it back up to a driveable state easily. The question would be what are you looking for this car to do for you. 363k on an a 300SD is not a big thing but Im not sure that the 190D's are quite as robust. > Tomorrow I'll do a search to find out if the 1.9D/2.2L was available > with a 5-speed... mebbe I should find one of those instead. > > I liked the size and feel of the car, so even if I don't buy this one I > think I'll keep looking for one... The w-124 is a cute car. One of the first Benz's that got my attention was a 190E a friend owned. Some things you may want to check as well. Functionality of the A/C Are the Vacuum locks working. John on the list really likes his 300D. The 300D is the big brother of the 190D. You get more power and a little more size. Good luck Gary! Robert Chase ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 08:03:24 -0400 From: Paul Brown Subject: Lubromoly procedure on a 616? Where do I disconnect the fuel and fuel return lines to use the Lubromoly on my 240D? Do I disconnect in the engine compartment at the junction between the rubber lines and the metal lines, or do I do something at the tank somewhere? Or do I use some Tygon tubing attached elsewhere? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 08:15:34 -0400 From: Mike Frank Subject: Re: Lubromoly procedure on a 616? It's been a while, but as I recall, all the relevant hoses are in the engine compartment. One is the cigar-shaped return line, the other may be the fuel filter inlet. Mike Frank At 08:03 AM 8/27/2003 -0400, Paul Brown wrote: >Where do I disconnect the fuel and fuel return lines to use the Lubromoly >on my 240D? Do I disconnect in the engine compartment at the junction >between the rubber lines and the metal lines, or do I do something at the >tank somewhere? Or do I use some Tygon tubing attached elsewhere? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 06:43:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: Looking at '85 190D, 360K miles, $1500 Hi guys, ( when last we left our hero, the ignition lock on his mighty 300D had failed, leaving the car permanently in "on". -at-#$-at-#*&^*& ignition lock! What a Chinese puzzle! I got the threaded cover off, stuck the cylinder back in per instructions, and now it's stuck in position "0". I'll go back out and try to loosen it, but I think it's not gonna happen. Luckily, the threaded cover is already off, so all I have to butcher to get this apart "the hard way" is a little tab in the steering lock casting that's holding the key lock cylinder in. Then it looks like I need a steering wheel lock assembly. Unless I go up there and it just works... ..fat chance. It's not easy to work in there - Mercedes saw fit to shroud the interior in some really thick & tough rubberized insulation. And the release pin to get it off the steering column faces in the worst possible direction. The manual says "press it in with a 3mm punch". Yeah, RIGHT. I think I may have to modify a pair of cheap pliers to do this job. On the plus ( ? ) side, I now know why my speedometer doesn't work: the square end that was crimped to the cable and that drives the instrument has come loose. Wonder if it's practical to recrimp it? Epoxy it? Solder it? Braze it? - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 06:49:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: 82 300D turbo update Derickam AA wrote: > > Well guys I here by declare my virus officially dead. > > Woke up this morning feeling like part of the human race, felt so good I > even did my workout. > > Anyhow now that the virus is gone. I have been planning my trip to So Cal to > deal with the 82 300. > > I would like to pose this question to any 123 owners out there. > > If you were going to drive this car 1200 mi North from San Diego to Seattle. > What kind of care package of parts would you take with you? I know what I > would take for the 190: > > Belt, spare injector line for parts. > > Spare diesel container, wrenches, screwdrivers, pliers socket set. > Jumper cables, oil, water for Misc. > > Also, how hard would it be to plug up the capillary tube to the oil pressure > gauge at the engine? > > Would it be possible to block off all vaccuum lines except the one going to > the fuel shut off valve till I get home? > > Is the hood release cable hard to replace? (I am confused as to why my > cousins husband did not replace it and I am giving him the benefit of the > doubt.) > > I have to repair the windsheild and tires to make it safe to drive but I > want to defer as many repairs as I can till I get home. > > Any tips unique to the handling of the car. I was going to throw on a set > of Michelins Mv4's on while I was getting the windshield replaced. Mv4 works > pretty good on the 190 have any of you ran them on the 300? > > Thanks for the tips so far, and Kevin I promise not to deliberately break > down in your neck of the woods. If I drive by your area at a sane time I > would like to drop in and say howdy and check out your fleet. > *** Inform me of the sane time, too. I'd like to check out Kevin's fleet as well. But I'm afraid that Redwood City is quite out of your way if you travel up I-5... - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 10:41:50 -0500 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: 82 300D turbo update I only used portions of it for reference on my 85 300D (a.k.a. "300D-T"), but I found the Haynes book on 123 diesels to at least be worth it's low price. I think I mostly used it for brakes and window regulators. Alec > > Hello all, > > Is the haynes manual for this car any good? > I thought I had it but I have the 114/115 chasis one. > I need to brief myself on this thing, I hate going in cold. > > Thanks for the additional items suggestions, I will take them to heart. > > > Derick Amburgey ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 08:54:49 -0700 (PDT) From: hue wong Subject: Re: 82 300D turbo update Ho! say I saw the mention of new tires. That makes me wonder: Why did the tires go bad in the first place? Is it just wear or is there a front end problem like a wobbely ball joint or bad bushings that may make a 700 mile trip (?) a bit of a rough one. Just more food for thought.... - --- Derickam AA wrote: > Well guys I here by declare my virus officially > dead. > > Woke up this morning feeling like part of the human > race, felt so good I > even did my workout. > > Anyhow now that the virus is gone. I have been > planning my trip to So Cal to > deal with the 82 300. > > I would like to pose this question to any 123 owners > out there. > > If you were going to drive this car 1200 mi North > from San Diego to Seattle. > What kind of care package of parts would you take > with you? I know what I > would take for the 190: > > Belt, spare injector line for parts. > > Spare diesel container, wrenches, screwdrivers, > pliers socket set. > Jumper cables, oil, water for Misc. > > Also, how hard would it be to plug up the capillary > tube to the oil pressure > gauge at the engine? > > Would it be possible to block off all vaccuum lines > except the one going to > the fuel shut off valve till I get home? > > Is the hood release cable hard to replace? (I am > confused as to why my > cousins husband did not replace it and I am giving > him the benefit of the > doubt.) > > I have to repair the windsheild and tires to make it > safe to drive but I > want to defer as many repairs as I can till I get > home. > > Any tips unique to the handling of the car. I was > going to throw on a set > of Michelins Mv4's on while I was getting the > windshield replaced. Mv4 works > pretty good on the 190 have any of you ran them on > the 300? > > Thanks for the tips so far, and Kevin I promise not > to deliberately break > down in your neck of the woods. If I drive by your > area at a sane time I > would like to drop in and say howdy and check out > your fleet. > > Since I am traveling the I-5 corridor I would be > happy to pick up anything > along the way and deliver it if you are on the way > as long as it will fit in > the 300. ;) > > Oh yeah what time of year does Grants pass get > trashed? > > Derick Amburgey > Automated Control Specialist > Port Of Seattle/SeaTac Airport/Satellite Train > System > Amateur Radio Callsign: K7DXX > List "Mom" of Diesel-Benz reflector > 1985 Mercedes 190D "Tuti" 280,000 Mi (36 mpg) > 1984 Mercedes 190D "Charity" 160,000 Mi (in rehab) > 1981 Volkswagen Caddy 1.6L 66,000 Mi (50 mpg) > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! 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