From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Mon Sep 1 09:14:45 2003 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Saturday, August 30 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1198 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: radiator and transmission questions Re: radiator and transmission questions RE: radiator and transmission questions Re: Threadlocker thanks Re: radiator and transmission questions Re: Threadlocker Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 10:08:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Anaeis N Subject: radiator and transmission questions Hi, all. I've got a new oil leak on my '82 300 CD. As you may recall, I had to replace my oil gauge cluster back in April, also due to a leak near the pedals. At least I think it's an oil leak (It's front and center), but now my radiator hose burst, so I'm wondering if the two could be related. Yesterday smoke starting coming out from underneath the hood. When I pulled over and opened it up, I saw that the radiator hose had burst and all my coolant had gone. My temp guage was not yet in the red zone, but it was at about 110, up from the 80-90 zone where it usually hovers. With an emergency call to my mechanic, he helped me reattach the radiator hose to what was left of the lip and told me to replace my lost coolant with water for the time being. My questions for you are: 1.Could my oil leak be related to the radiator problem? 2.If they're not related, what might have caused the radiator problem, and how much should I expect to spend to have it fixed? 3. Could either of these problems be related to my air conditioning not blowing very cold, even on its highest setting? 4. Could a leak of oil-like liquid front and center be a leak of anything besides oil? 5.Where should I be taking my car for regular servicing? Will a Jiffy Lube suit such an old Benz, or is there great potential for them to mess something up? 6.Could you give me some instruction on reading the level of my transmission fluid? There's some clear liquid on the stick when I pull it out, but how much should there be, and should it be clear? As much detail as you have time to go into would be great. 7. What does R & R stand for in mechanic speak? Thanks evermuch, R Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 11:47:40 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: radiator and transmission questions At 10:08 AM 8/30/2003, Anaeis N wrote: >Hi, all. > >I've got a new oil leak on my '82 300 CD. As you may recall, I had to >replace my oil gauge cluster back in April, also due to a leak near the >pedals. At least I think it's an oil leak (It's front and center), but now >my radiator hose burst, so I'm wondering if the two could be related. >Yesterday smoke starting coming out from underneath the hood. When I >pulled over and opened it up, I saw that the radiator hose had burst and >all my coolant had gone. My temp guage was not yet in the red zone, but it >was at about 110, up from the 80-90 zone where it usually hovers. With an >emergency call to my mechanic, he helped me reattach the radiator hose to >what was left of the lip and told me to replace my lost coolant with water >for the time being. oil and water don't mix... and that wasn't smoke, it was steam. :) glad you're on the list, we can help you. :) It's the guys with questions like, "the valve facing is at 32 degrees but the manual says 31.5 but my heads are pitting and I wanted to compensate by... blah, blah" that I can't help much with. ;) >My questions for you are: >1.Could my oil leak be related to the radiator problem? not a chance, oh wait, except for one common element. -aging. :) >2.If they're not related, what might have caused the radiator problem, and >how much should I expect to spend to have it fixed? hoses and rubber and plastic get old, degrade with time. replace hoses, belts and lines when they show signs of cracking, or aging. :) >3. Could either of these problems be related to my air conditioning not >blowing very cold, even on its highest setting? nope. you probably need to have the a/c recharged, or checked for leaks. >4. Could a leak of oil-like liquid front and center be a leak of anything >besides oil? probably not. >5.Where should I be taking my car for regular servicing? Will a Jiffy Lube >suit such an old Benz, or is there great potential for them to mess >something up? steer clear of franchise service locations. try to find an honest mechanic that knows mercedes Diesels. Where are you located? Maybe someone in your area can point you in the right direction. The folks that work at places like Jiffy Lube are not very skilled, or they'd be working at a real shop. Learn how to do your own oil changes or have a qualified mechanic do it for you. I never go to these minute lube places. If I was stuck miles from home and needed an oil change I'd go to a local parts place buy an oil pan, wrenches, filters and fluid and do it in the parking lot. :) Also, many community colleges offer basic automotive classes, you might want to take a class to become familiar with the basics about cars, very important if you wish to live with an older vehicle. :) >6.Could you give me some instruction on reading the level of my >transmission fluid? There's some clear liquid on the stick when I pull it >out, but how much should there be, and should it be clear? As much detail >as you have time to go into would be great. clear is ok if it's redish. If it's greenish like as in antifreeze the trans oil cooler in the radiator may be leaking, in which case your tranny is in serious trouble. Grab a clean paper towel or white napkin and look at the fluid, it should be reddish-brown. The level should be between the marks on the stick and I believe with the car running in park or neutral, look at the owners manual or stick or email model/year to the list and someone can verify. >7. What does R & R stand for in mechanic speak? Remove and replace. Unbolt and bolt in. swap parts out. Sometimes it's just shot gun troubleshooting... oh, the engine is doing X, then just R&R that thing. Simpler to replace then repair sometimes. :) Newer cars are very modular, very rarely do you need a lot of skill to fix them, just swap out that box or module. In a way it's nice, same thing has been happening in electronics, but it sure doesn't do much for the knowledge level of the technician. The dumbing down of technical workers... :( >Thanks evermuch, no problem... that's why I started this list... to help folks out who are interested in older Jeeps or Mercedes but may not have the training, experience or even aptitude to deal with them. Don't let anyone say you're stupid because you don't know these things, some people just have their skills in a different area. No one should rip you off or over charge you because of that. later, john meister - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 14:26:08 -0500 From: "Sam Williams" <1sam-at-io.com> Subject: RE: radiator and transmission questions R Whoa! Lots of questions. Most are a hard to answer without knowing more tech details about your car. You seem to need someone to look at your car, perform a test or two and provide answers based on first-hand knowledge. 1. Maybe, probably not. 2. Old hose that should have been replaced before this happened. Or low coolant level. Or failed water pump. Or failure of auxiliary cooling fans. Or broken or loose belt. Or clogged radiator. Or failed head gasket. Or cracked head. Or cracked block. Or more than one of above. $25.00 - $10,000, depending on cause and who makes the repairs. 3. Probably not. 4. Yes. It depends on how broadly you define 'Oil-like.' 5. Most Jiffy Lube places lack familiarity with MBs, let alone diesels. Their business model is based on advertising inexpensive oil changes and selling additional, more profitable, services that may or may not benefit a vehicle. They stock filters, fluids, tools for the most common cars. Your car requires diesel rated oil, twice as much as a Geo, a filter that doesn't merely fit but actually meets MB specifications and possesses other significant differences from the cars they are prepared to service. Jiffy Lubes make mistakes on Fords and Chevys but the likelihood of seriously damaging a less common car is far greater. Each make of car has peculiarities. While a good mechanic can do many jobs well, one who specializes in MBs has more knowledge, experience and reliable parts sources. When you encounter another MB owner, ask their recommendation for local service. When you get 2 or 3 answers that match, try going there. Repeat until satisfied. 6. After driving at normal speeds for 20 minutes to 1/2 hour, so transmission fluid reaches stable operating temperature, park on a level spot. Place selector in PARK and while engine idles, remove transmission dip-stick. Wipe with lint free cloth. Fully replace in tube. Remove and examine. Fluid should be clear with pinkish tint. Level should be between the marks on dipstick. Dark color of fluid, burnt smell, evidence of particulate matter in fluid or foam are bad signs. Fluid and filter should be renewed in accordance with the schedule and specifications in your manual. Over and under-filling or using inappropriate fluid can damage the transmission. 7. Remove and Replace. Or, Rest and Relaxation--often required following experience with a difficult job or customer. Sam - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Anaeis N Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2003 12:09 PM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: radiator and transmission questions Hi, all. I've got a new oil leak on my '82 300 CD. As you may recall, I had to replace my oil gauge cluster back in April, also due to a leak near the pedals. At least I think it's an oil leak (It's front and center), but now my radiator hose burst, so I'm wondering if the two could be related. Yesterday smoke starting coming out from underneath the hood. When I pulled over and opened it up, I saw that the radiator hose had burst and all my coolant had gone. My temp guage was not yet in the red zone, but it was at about 110, up from the 80-90 zone where it usually hovers. With an emergency call to my mechanic, he helped me reattach the radiator hose to what was left of the lip and told me to replace my lost coolant with water for the time being. My questions for you are: 1.Could my oil leak be related to the radiator problem? 2.If they're not related, what might have caused the radiator problem, and how much should I expect to spend to have it fixed? 3. Could either of these problems be related to my air conditioning not blowing very cold, even on its highest setting? 4. Could a leak of oil-like liquid front and center be a leak of anything besides oil? 5.Where should I be taking my car for regular servicing? Will a Jiffy Lube suit such an old Benz, or is there great potential for them to mess something up? 6.Could you give me some instruction on reading the level of my transmission fluid? There's some clear liquid on the stick when I pull it out, but how much should there be, and should it be clear? As much detail as you have time to go into would be great. 7. What does R & R stand for in mechanic speak? Thanks evermuch, R Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 16:07:39 -0400 From: "Steve Morelen" Subject: Re: Threadlocker I wouldn't be suprised to find that Loctite (or a European Loctite-equivalent) makes a drying threadlocker like the blue (or red) stuff that you see on factory pre-coated fasteners. Loctite manufactures a zillion different locking and sealing products. Try their website www.loctite.com Steve Morelen >From: Mike Frank >To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >Subject: Threadlocker >Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 10:12:01 -0400 > >Whey you get any brake-system related bolts from the dealer, they are >coated with a blue thread locker. I've tried doing this with various grades >of Locktite, and it doesn't work. All the Locktite products seem to require >the part to be assembled while the locker is wet. Does anyone know what the >stuff is on factory parts? > >Mike Frank _________________________________________________________________ Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 13:34:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Anaeis N Subject: thanks Thank you, John and Sam. I'm seeing my mechanic about the radiator and oil leak ASAP after the holiday. Thanks for giving me a head start on understanding the problems. My mechanic shop knows diesels Benzes inside out, so they're good for repairs and such, but they have so much business -- their lot is constantly full of imports both vintage and new, their phone is constantly ringing every time I'm in the office. As a result, they're not interested in doing the small things like oil changes and fluid checks. At $100 an hour, I can't really afford it, either. So I'm in a quandry about who to go to for maintenance, as the only other Mercedes owner I know lives 200 miles away. (He's done both the oil changes I've had in my 6 months of Benz ownership.) My car has service records dating back 12 years. The paperwork verifies oil changes, etc. by Jiffy Lube every 3,000 miles, so I figured JL couldn't be that bad. Perhaps I should investigate a diesel mechanic more moderately priced than my normal shop that might be willing to do the monthly stuff? The auto class is a good idea -- I'll check around. Thanks for your encouragement and freely shared information. R P.S. My mucho expensive mechanic shop is not a dealership, like you may be thinking.(Can you picture the MB guys laughing at my olive-green '82 coupe?) I like the down-to-earth attitude my shop has, and apparently so does everybody else who doesn't drive an '03 model around here. Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 16:02:03 -0500 From: Jon Filina Subject: Re: radiator and transmission questions Anaeis asked: > My questions for you are: < big snip > John and Sam have already answered your questions in the same manner as I started to do. I do want to elaborate on two things: 1. You mentioned that your mechanic re-attached the radiator hose to "what was left of the lip". It's time for a new radiator. That is a well known problem with the MB radiators. Over time, the plastic necks break. Some claim it's because the "evil" green antifreeze had been used. I don't buy that explanation since my '81 240D appeared to have used the green stuff most of it's life and I never had a problem. My '84 300SD, which had regular green colored antifreeze in it when I got it, did develop a broken neck. I think it's more a case of age and heat. My 240D temp gauge usually showed 80 when fully warmed up. My SD shows 93. After 15-20 years, the plastic gets brittle no matter what antifreeze you use. You don't really have to get a new radiator which should cost $200-250. A good radiator shop may be able to rebuild it for around $100-125. If the tubes and fins are serviceable, they can swap out the plastic tanks and the end result is just as good. 2. What national chain to use to change the oil? I echo John and Sam's comments: "none". If you don't want to do it yourself, have your mechanic do the work. It's pretty easy, though, and you may want to consider taking on the task. If you don't like crawling under the car to remove the oil plug, pick up a "Topsider" at one of the marine supply houses such as West Marine (around $50, if not on sale) and sucking the oil out of the dipstick. MB does their oil changes this way, but uses a machine that looks like a shop vac on steroids. If done correctly, you'll remove all the particulate matter, and more oil, than you would removing the drain plug. Many people question the previous statement, but I know it is a fact from my experience. The chains, such as Jiffy, are ok for the average car. Provided they tighten the drain plug and don't put in too much oil, you're ok. I started using a Pennzoil shop in 1990 when I was driving my '90 Jetta diesel. I had always changed my own oil. VW changed the way the engine was mounted sometime in the mid to late '80's. With my '81 Rabbit diesel, I used a oil filter cup, with extentions and a swivel, to remove the filter. That didn't work with my '90 Jetta, so I started going to Pennzoil. When I got my '81 240D, in 1998, I took it to them for an oil change. The first thing the "tech" started to do was to remove the spin on fuel filter.... He thought it was the oil filter. After having to walk the "techs" through an oil change several times I gave up and went back to doing it myself. With your CD, do it yourself or let your mechanic do it. Forget about the chains, it's not worth the hassle! Jon '84 300SD 165,100 mi. "Bruno" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 14:27:55 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: Threadlocker thinking about it I did use something like this before, where you have the material dry before installing... loctite made it... or it came with an intake manifold or carb or??? napa would know... john At 01:07 PM 8/30/2003, Steve Morelen wrote: >I wouldn't be suprised to find that Loctite (or a European >Loctite-equivalent) makes a drying threadlocker like the blue (or red) >stuff that you see on factory pre-coated fasteners. Loctite manufactures >a zillion different locking and sealing products. Try their website >www.loctite.com > >Steve Morelen > > >>From: Mike Frank >>To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >>Subject: Threadlocker >>Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 10:12:01 -0400 >> >>Whey you get any brake-system related bolts from the dealer, they are >>coated with a blue thread locker. I've tried doing this with various >>grades of Locktite, and it doesn't work. All the Locktite products seem >>to require the part to be assembled while the locker is wet. Does anyone >>know what the stuff is on factory parts? >> >>Mike Frank > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection. >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1198 **********************************