From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Tue Sep 2 14:41:30 2003 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, September 2 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1203 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] Exploding Michelin tires Re: [db] Exploding Michelin tires Re: [db] Exploding Michelin tires Re: [db] Exploding Michelin tires Re: [db] Exploding Michelin tires [db] Re: get paid to give me advice! Re: [db] Exploding Michelin tires Re[2]: [db] Exploding Michelin tires RE: [db] get paid to give me advice! [db] Replacing rear E brake shoes on 87 300D RE: [db] get paid to give me advice! Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 12:49:17 -0500 From: Jon Filina Subject: Re: [db] Exploding Michelin tires I wrote: >> Michelin has evidently sunk to the level of Firestone. The Firestone's >> I had on my Pinto were the worst tires I have ever driven on. I >> replaced them after 6,000 miles, after being told that the Pinto was And Paul added: > (For those who remember.) A Pinto with Firestone 500 tires!!! The product > liability special. I wasn't aware of this. I tried to get the dealer to do something, but they told me it was Firestone's problem. The Firestone dealer blamed it on Ford but offered to swap them out at a discounted price. From what I remember the difference amounted to peanuts. I had read that Michelins were good tires, so I bit the bullet, went to the local dealer and had them installed. That was around late '73 or early '74 and I stayed with Michelins until '99 or so. I replaced the tires on my '90 Jetta in the fall of '92. The original Continental's (I think) had about 75k on them. I went back to Michelins, based on my experience, and was still happy with them even though a set of 4 ran me $430. In '95, with about 75-80k on them, it came time for replacement. I had planned on getting that done on the weekend when I had the time. On the way to work a few days before I was going to swap them out I heard what sound like an explosion as I was on the highway. I pulled over and found out that the tread on the left front tire had "blown" off and was on the road a few hundred yards back. The tire was NOT flat! My mud flap had been torn off when the tread left the tire, but the tire was still holding air. I limped off the freeway and pulled into a parking lot to put the spare on. I'd been having problems with the trunk lock and it picked that day to not work... There was a Pep Boys about 2 miles away. I decided to see if I could make it. The tire was still holding air. I not only made it, driving on the access roads, but it was still inflated when I pulled into the store. I went in, picked out a set of "cheap" tires ( 4 for $150, from what I recall) and went out to pull the car into the bay. The tire was flat... I would have gotten 4 Michelins, but I was in "cheapskate" mode at that time. I don't think many other tires would have been driveable after the tread casing had been thrown off. Vernon and Jim both mentioned they'd had good luck with Michelins. I didn't think Michelin sold "blems". If they do, that would explain the problem I had with the ones on my 240D. My decision to put 4 Yokohamas on my SD was more because of the $$$ than my earlier problems. 4 X-One's, or the equivalent, would have been around $450 vs. $285 for the Yokohamas. The difference in price was worth it to see if what I'd read about the Yoko's was correct. So far, it has been... Jon '84 300SD 165,300 mi. "Bruno" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 13:49:35 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] Exploding Michelin tires So here is how my day went. Went to NTB and they swore up one side and down the other that the tire was not defective and that there was a bad valve stem. I demanded replacment of all four tires with another brand because I was tired of the failures and I had been doing business with them for close to 12 years. They refused to replace all of the tires. I said the hell with it and told them to put a replacment tire on (they were doing that for free) and that I would go to Costco and buy new tires and throw the old unsafe ones in the landfill where they belonged. The salesperson was horrified at the concept but they started working on my car and I left. After 30 minutes back and forth I was tired of arguing with them. I also did not feel like going up the chain of idiots and jumping through their little hoops. I went to Costco and started shopping for tires and told the Costco guy my experience at NTB. He asked to see my reciept from NTB and noticed that my car had S rated tires. He also spotted that my car was listed wrong on the Invoice. They had my car listed as a 300CD a much lighter vehicle (with the same size tires). The guy at Costco looked in the computer and it indicated that the S rated tires were not reccomended for my vehicle. I called NTB back and indeed the original salesperson had made a mistake and put the wrong speed rating on my car. The Heavy S class body combined with my high speed interstate driving was too much for the tires. They are only rated to 112mph and were failing at under 80mph. They offered me replacment on all four tires. My car is now rolling on 4 new Sumitomo SRIXON4 - P195/70R14 90H tires. I won't be going back to NTB ever again due to the fact that they were more concerned with the financial end of things rather than my saftey or even my satisfaction with their company. They were trying to push me onto the manafacturer rather than deal with the problem themselves. They only adjusted the situaion once they realize that they had made a critical mistake. As well I am going to be rather leary of Michelin tires for a while. Costco was very helpful and did not really even care that they were loosing a sale over the information they gave me. I was prepared to buy 4 new tires when I got my car back from NTB. Robert Chase ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:08:35 -0700 From: "Paul Schwartz" Subject: Re: [db] Exploding Michelin tires > I went to Costco and started shopping for tires and told the Costco guy > my experience at NTB. He asked to see my reciept from NTB and noticed > that my car had S rated tires. He also spotted that my car was listed > wrong on the Invoice. They had my car listed as a 300CD a much lighter > vehicle (with the same size tires). The guy at Costco looked in the > computer and it indicated that the S rated tires were not reccomended > for my vehicle. I called NTB back and indeed the original salesperson > had made a mistake and put the wrong speed rating on my car. The Heavy > S class body combined with my high speed interstate driving was too much > for the tires. They are only rated to 112mph and were failing at under > 80mph. They offered me replacment on all four tires. My car is now > rolling on 4 new Sumitomo SRIXON4 - P195/70R14 90H tires. I have never had an S rated tire that I liked or lasted. This might have something to do with my predilection for large American cars. I am constantly amazed what they will tell you at tire shops--"S is Speed rated" was my favorite. The mark-ups must be amazing. That's probably why when I find something I like I tend not to change without much proding. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 13:36:10 -0500 From: Jon Filina Subject: Re: [db] Exploding Michelin tires Robert wrote: > So here is how my day went. > I went to Costco and started shopping for tires and told the Costco guy > my experience at NTB. He asked to see my reciept from NTB and noticed > that my car had S rated tires. He also spotted that my car was listed > wrong on the Invoice. They had my car listed as a 300CD a much lighter > vehicle (with the same size tires). The guy at Costco looked in the > computer and it indicated that the S rated tires were not reccomended > for my vehicle. I called NTB back and indeed the original salesperson > had made a mistake and put the wrong speed rating on my car. The Heavy > S class body combined with my high speed interstate driving was too much > for the tires. They are only rated to 112mph and were failing at under > 80mph. They offered me replacment on all four tires. My car is now > rolling on 4 new Sumitomo SRIXON4 - P195/70R14 90H tires. You got me to wondering.... I checked both Discount Tire and The Tire Rack and both showed "S" rated tires as acceptable for my '84 300SD. The Yokohama Avid Touring tires are "S" rated. The Avid H4, are "H". After driving underpowered VW diesels, and my 240D, for almost 20 years I seldom drive over 70 mph. You tend to forget the "need for speed" after a while.... ;-) If I start having problems with these tires, I'll have a good clue as to why. From what I remember reading, you should like those Sumitomo's. Jon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 14:46:40 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] Exploding Michelin tires I never cared about the "speed rating" because I don't generally go over their limits. 112mph is fine with me. I think the problem is my car's weight with the low speed rating of the tire. Im looking at tirerack.com and they don't have the S rated Michelin listed for my car. There are some S rated tires there though. It makes sense though a heavy german car pushing 80-85mph on a hot day on tires only rated to 112mph. I have only driven about 5 miles on the new tires and do like them already. I think I may take a ride out onto the interstate in a bit here.... Robert Chase Jon Filina wrote: > Robert wrote: > >> So here is how my day went. > > >> I went to Costco and started shopping for tires and told the Costco >> guy my experience at NTB. He asked to see my reciept from NTB and >> noticed that my car had S rated tires. He also spotted that my car >> was listed wrong on the Invoice. They had my car listed as a 300CD a >> much lighter vehicle (with the same size tires). The guy at Costco >> looked in the computer and it indicated that the S rated tires were >> not reccomended for my vehicle. I called NTB back and indeed the >> original salesperson had made a mistake and put the wrong speed rating >> on my car. The Heavy S class body combined with my high speed >> interstate driving was too much for the tires. They are only rated to >> 112mph and were failing at under 80mph. They offered me replacment on >> all four tires. My car is now rolling on 4 new Sumitomo SRIXON4 - >> P195/70R14 90H tires. > > > > You got me to wondering.... I checked both Discount Tire and The Tire > Rack and both showed "S" rated tires as acceptable for my '84 300SD. > > The Yokohama Avid Touring tires are "S" rated. The Avid H4, are "H". > > After driving underpowered VW diesels, and my 240D, for almost 20 years > I seldom drive over 70 mph. You tend to forget the "need for speed" > after a while.... ;-) > > If I start having problems with these tires, I'll have a good clue as to > why. > > From what I remember reading, you should like those Sumitomo's. > > Jon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 13:37:23 -0500 From: DanG Subject: [db] Re: get paid to give me advice! Yes - you can pay us - by paying digest.net what you think the value is. They need the cash so that we can continue to jabber about what we know and then some. Dan ChicagoArea > Tell you what, if you can scan them I can post them on a Webpage and the > whole list can give you input. If you do not have a scanner you can send a > copy to me and I would be happy to scan and post them for you. > > No charge. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 12:09:49 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Exploding Michelin tires On Tue, 2 Sep 2003, Robert Chase wrote: >-->critical mistake. As well I am going to be rather leary of Michelin >-->tires for a while. Costco was very helpful and did not really even care >-->Robert Chase the fact you had the weaker S rated tires is the problem, not Michelin... I thought Costco was being unreasonable in not selling lower rated tires to folks, but it appears there is a good reason for it. so this was more a result of an error rather then defective tires... john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. Suggestions: email in plain text w/o attachments, and trust Jesus. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The revolt is underway, the penguin is coming... I can hear the slap of his little feet... and the squishing of worms and sco lawyers under them... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 15:21:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Welty Subject: Re[2]: [db] Exploding Michelin tires On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 13:36:10 -0500 Jon Filina wrote: > You got me to wondering.... I checked both Discount Tire and The Tire > Rack and both showed "S" rated tires as acceptable for my '84 300SD. > The Yokohama Avid Touring tires are "S" rated. The Avid H4, are "H". there's a whole extra number on there called the load rating or load index that is commonly overlooked, and it shouldn't be. if you find the fine print tire designation on the sidewall, it is likely to look something like this: 195/60R14 88H H being of course the speed rating. 88 is the load index. the Bosch automotive handbook gives the following load index values as examples: LI 50 51 88 89 112 113 145 149 157 kg 190 195 560 580 1120 1150 2900 3250 4125 i'm assuming but can't prove that this is kg per wheel; the handbook assumes i can figure that out for myself and so doesn't say. the LI and the speed rating are paired, because the load rating presumes operation at or below the speed rating with proper inflation pressure. richard - -- Richard Welty rwelty-at-suespammers.org Averill Park Networking rwelty-at-averillpark.net Unix, Linux, IP Network Engineering, Security rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com 518-573-7592 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 15:14:21 -0500 From: "Sam Williams" <1sam-at-io.com> Subject: RE: [db] get paid to give me advice! R, I still recommend a PPI from MB shop. While not 100%, it is a very thorough check of likely replacement candidates in situ. A similarly thorough check will occur, over time, if your mechanic follows MB's recommended maintenance schedule. Basing preventative maintenance on Mean Time Between Failure of unseen items, though a worthy approach, might be most statistically relevant to a fleet, less reliable to determine repair needs for your specific car. I don't believe your problem with the radiator is included in PPI or Maintenance Schedule. It is the sort of thing an experienced mechanic is aware of, should advise on. Though many blame it on brand of coolant, I believe brittleness due to age and occasional over-tightening of hoses by inexperienced mechanics are more likely causes. It is also the sort of thing one learns about from this list. Your oil gauge problem is rarer, unlikely to be included in anyone's PM recommendations. There may be a higher than expected failure rate (i.e. several have failed while car is still on the road) but lists such as this are probably the only place, outside MB itself, you would learn that. Rubber and plastic parts degrade over time are probably candidates for replacement now. Discuss with a trusted mechanic. Brakes, steering, suspension, transmission and motor should be monitored regularly and maintained in good shape. Your best approach is to have a trusted mechanic who is familiar with your car, how you wish it maintained and a realistic budget for doing so. Monitor the list and ask questions; I have learned an amazing amount by doing that. I hope you enjoy your car. Am impressed with the effort you are making to assure it serves you well. Your efforts will likely be rewarded; a 300CD is a very well designed, durable, agreeable car. Sam - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Anaeis N Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 12:08 PM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: [db] get paid to give me advice! A job opportunity for anyone who's interested: I have almost 15 years worth of service records for the '82 300CD I purchased six months ago. This is a very fine car mechanically and cosmetically, and I want to do whatever necessary to keep it that way, without getting ripped off simultaneously. I need to understand what has been repaired and replaced on it, and what components will need work to keep my Benz in great shape. My current mechanic is taking a wait and see approach. But I don't want to get stranded again because of a part simply getting brittle and busting, leaving me on the side of the road in the rain (like my radiator did last week), or worse yet, doing severe damage. My mechanic is too busy to go through the paperwork with me. (In April they replaced an instrument cluster that I determined yesterday had been replaced in 2001.True, it was leaking oil onto my pedals, but why, since it was only 2 years old?) I'd like to hire someone experienced with diesel Benzes to look at all these forms and tell me what's been neglected, what may be a source of future trouble, and what should be fine for another 10 years. I can make copies of the records and send them to you via snail-mail. You'd review them thoroughly and make a report, and I'd compensate you for your time and expertise. Any takers? R in St. Louis Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 16:41:28 -0400 From: r fell Subject: [db] Replacing rear E brake shoes on 87 300D My mechanic tells me when the wheel hub is pulled to replace the shoes the wheel bearing separated and I need a replacement. Is this what usually happens in this repair? Thank you for any advice given ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 14:32:39 -0700 From: "Jeremy Bowne" Subject: RE: [db] get paid to give me advice! Why was the cluster replaced in the first place? Was it because of a previous oil leak? This brings another question to mind, if that's true: Is the oil leak caused by a bad oil line fitting, not cluster? Jeremy - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Sam Williams Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 1:14 PM To: 'Anaeis N'; diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: RE: [db] get paid to give me advice! R, I still recommend a PPI from MB shop. While not 100%, it is a very thorough check of likely replacement candidates in situ. A similarly thorough check will occur, over time, if your mechanic follows MB's recommended maintenance schedule. Basing preventative maintenance on Mean Time Between Failure of unseen items, though a worthy approach, might be most statistically relevant to a fleet, less reliable to determine repair needs for your specific car. I don't believe your problem with the radiator is included in PPI or Maintenance Schedule. It is the sort of thing an experienced mechanic is aware of, should advise on. Though many blame it on brand of coolant, I believe brittleness due to age and occasional over-tightening of hoses by inexperienced mechanics are more likely causes. It is also the sort of thing one learns about from this list. Your oil gauge problem is rarer, unlikely to be included in anyone's PM recommendations. There may be a higher than expected failure rate (i.e. several have failed while car is still on the road) but lists such as this are probably the only place, outside MB itself, you would learn that. Rubber and plastic parts degrade over time are probably candidates for replacement now. Discuss with a trusted mechanic. Brakes, steering, suspension, transmission and motor should be monitored regularly and maintained in good shape. Your best approach is to have a trusted mechanic who is familiar with your car, how you wish it maintained and a realistic budget for doing so. Monitor the list and ask questions; I have learned an amazing amount by doing that. I hope you enjoy your car. Am impressed with the effort you are making to assure it serves you well. Your efforts will likely be rewarded; a 300CD is a very well designed, durable, agreeable car. Sam - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Anaeis N Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 12:08 PM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: [db] get paid to give me advice! A job opportunity for anyone who's interested: I have almost 15 years worth of service records for the '82 300CD I purchased six months ago. This is a very fine car mechanically and cosmetically, and I want to do whatever necessary to keep it that way, without getting ripped off simultaneously. I need to understand what has been repaired and replaced on it, and what components will need work to keep my Benz in great shape. My current mechanic is taking a wait and see approach. But I don't want to get stranded again because of a part simply getting brittle and busting, leaving me on the side of the road in the rain (like my radiator did last week), or worse yet, doing severe damage. My mechanic is too busy to go through the paperwork with me. (In April they replaced an instrument cluster that I determined yesterday had been replaced in 2001.True, it was leaking oil onto my pedals, but why, since it was only 2 years old?) I'd like to hire someone experienced with diesel Benzes to look at all these forms and tell me what's been neglected, what may be a source of future trouble, and what should be fine for another 10 years. I can make copies of the records and send them to you via snail-mail. You'd review them thoroughly and make a report, and I'd compensate you for your time and expertise. Any takers? R in St. Louis Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1203 **********************************