From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Wed Sep 3 07:19:59 2003 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, September 3 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1204 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] Exploding Michelin tires Re: [db] Exploding Michelin tires Re: [db] Replacing rear E brake shoes on 87 300D Re: [db] Exploding Michelin tires Re: [db] Exploding Michelin tires RE: [db] Exploding Michelin tires Re: [db] Exploding Michelin tires Re: [db] Exploding Michelin tires Re: [db] Exploding Michelin tires Re: [db] Exploding Michelin tires RE: [db] Replacing rear E brake shoes on 87 300D Re: [db] Exploding Michelin tires Re: [db] Exploding Michelin tires Re: [db] Exploding Michelin tires Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 18:41:56 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] Exploding Michelin tires Yeah, I have noticed that Costco is more concerned about quality and customer satisfaction than anything else..... They sell cheap but the sell higher quality....... Im still rather unsure of Michelin tires though. Even with the additional weight the tire should have not been engineered so tightly.... Had this been a heavy SUV and a Soccer Mom behind the wheel there could have been an accident.... Cheap is one thing but human life is another..... In addition to my incident a good friend of mine had to fight Michelin to get them to honor their warranty.... I was reading on the web that Michelin's negotiation tactic is to give you a lowball "take it or leave it" offer and act as if they are doing you a favor and then making you sue them if you want anything else or want to think about it..... I don't like the idea of helping out a corperate entity like that take advantage of more people...... The 12 year relationship with NTB is now over however. I did not like having someone argue with me that my blowout was caused by a valve stem just by looking at my tire. They replaced the valve stem and mysteriously it dissapeared and they could not find it..... They never tested the old one either...... Without doing a detailed analysis there is no way of knowing what made the tire fail... The melted rubber on the inside of the tire and sulfur smell were signs that something was wrong inside that tire..... Their obsession with the bottom line over my saftey is completely unacceptable..... Robert Chase john wrote: > On Tue, 2 Sep 2003, Robert Chase wrote: > > >>-->critical mistake. As well I am going to be rather leary of Michelin >>-->tires for a while. Costco was very helpful and did not really even care >>-->Robert Chase > > > the fact you had the weaker S rated tires is the problem, not > Michelin... I thought Costco was being unreasonable in not > selling lower rated tires to folks, but it appears there is a good > reason for it. > > so this was more a result of an error rather then defective tires... > > john > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. > Suggestions: email in plain text w/o attachments, and trust Jesus. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The revolt is underway, > the penguin is coming... > I can hear the slap of his little feet... > and the squishing of worms and sco lawyers under them... > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 18:45:20 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] Exploding Michelin tires Ah, So much for NTB the "tire experts" eh? Robert Chase Richard Welty wrote: > On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 13:36:10 -0500 Jon Filina wrote: > >>You got me to wondering.... I checked both Discount Tire and The Tire >>Rack and both showed "S" rated tires as acceptable for my '84 300SD. > > > >>The Yokohama Avid Touring tires are "S" rated. The Avid H4, are "H". > > > there's a whole extra number on there called the load rating or load index > that is commonly overlooked, and it shouldn't be. > > if you find the fine print tire designation on the sidewall, it is likely > to look something like this: > > 195/60R14 88H > > H being of course the speed rating. 88 is the load index. > > the Bosch automotive handbook gives the following load index values as > examples: > > LI 50 51 88 89 112 113 145 149 157 > kg 190 195 560 580 1120 1150 2900 3250 4125 > > i'm assuming but can't prove that this is kg per wheel; the handbook > assumes i can figure that out for myself and so doesn't say. the LI and > the speed rating are paired, because the load rating presumes operation > at or below the speed rating with proper inflation pressure. > > richard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:07:26 -0700 (PDT) From: hue wong Subject: Re: [db] Replacing rear E brake shoes on 87 300D MMM don't know, but I am about two weeks out from having this repair done on my 82 d and am interested to know as well. ! - --- r fell wrote: > My mechanic tells me when the wheel hub is pulled to > replace the shoes the > wheel bearing separated and I need a replacement. > Is this what usually > happens in this repair? Thank you for any advice given __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:32:22 -0700 From: "Paul Schwartz" Subject: Re: [db] Exploding Michelin tires > The 12 year relationship with NTB is now over however. I did not like > having someone argue with me that my blowout was caused by a valve stem > just by looking at my tire. They replaced the valve stem and > mysteriously it dissapeared and they could not find it..... They never > tested the old one either...... Without doing a detailed analysis there > is no way of knowing what made the tire fail... The melted rubber on the > inside of the tire and sulfur smell were signs that something was wrong > inside that tire..... Their obsession with the bottom line over my > saftey is completely unacceptable..... Generally, when I buy new tires I replace the valve stems at the same time. The company would be liable one way or the other. Locally, Wheel Works used to do right by me, but they were sold to some chain--I think Kragen--and the service has gone down. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 21:14:36 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] Exploding Michelin tires Yeah, Im going to shop around when it comes to buying tires next..... I like the new ones though..... They are a harder ride but smoother and more balanced.... Robert. Paul Schwartz wrote: >>The 12 year relationship with NTB is now over however. I did not like >>having someone argue with me that my blowout was caused by a valve stem >>just by looking at my tire. They replaced the valve stem and >>mysteriously it dissapeared and they could not find it..... They never >>tested the old one either...... Without doing a detailed analysis there >>is no way of knowing what made the tire fail... The melted rubber on the >>inside of the tire and sulfur smell were signs that something was wrong >>inside that tire..... Their obsession with the bottom line over my >>saftey is completely unacceptable..... > > > Generally, when I buy new tires I replace the valve stems at the same time. > The company would be liable one way or the other. > > Locally, Wheel Works used to do right by me, but they were sold to some > chain--I think Kragen--and the service has gone down. > > Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 21:47:17 -0500 From: "Richard Arnold" Subject: RE: [db] Exploding Michelin tires > Robert wrote: > > I never cared about the "speed rating" because I don't generally go over > their limits. 112mph is fine with me. I think the problem is my car's > weight with the low speed rating of the tire. Im looking at > tirerack.com and they don't have the S rated Michelin listed for my car. > There are some S rated tires there though. > > It makes sense though a heavy german car pushing 80-85mph on a hot day > on tires only rated to 112mph. > > I have only driven about 5 miles on the new tires and do like them > already. I think I may take a ride out onto the interstate in a bit > here.... Well, the fastest I have ever driven my SDL is 111mph; really. Gun barrel Nebraska roads with no one else for hours; in Alfa terms, an Italian tune-up. This was on Michelin MXV4 Plus, which are V rated. NTB in Tucker, where I used to live, would not sell me anything of a lesser speed rating. Nevertheless, I was not comfortable with the NTB experience. They were better as NTW. You may remember. I checked the tirerack site for my car and the minimum speed rating for the SDL on non-winter tires is 130mph or H rated. I can't imagine my car is that much heavier than yours but I'm running 15" rims. For the same ground speed, the larger circumference would be turning at a slower perimeter speed right? I always had to work that out on paper. I'm running Pirelli P4000s now. A much stiffer ride but better cornering, not that I need THAT out in the high plains. I do miss GA. Regards, Richard Arnold '87 300 SDL '73 Alfa Spider ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 20:42:52 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: [db] Exploding Michelin tires At 04:32 PM 9/2/2003, Paul Schwartz wrote: >Generally, when I buy new tires I replace the valve stems at the same time. >The company would be liable one way or the other. I doubt that a valve stem caused a blow out... that borders on the absurd. If you were running S rated tires in hot weather, fast, on a heavy car they probably separated and came apart plain and simple. If the valve stem had popped out the tire would have deflated and you would have noticed it's gradual air lose, along with a probable hissing/whistling sound. Hard to say, if you had your tunes cranked up you might have missed it... that heavy metal is hard to hear mechanical problems over, or maybe it was the rap you had tuned in at the time... or heaven forbid, country and western, the only two kinds of music that even I can't stand. ;) john (that last line probably went over like a led zepplin, so I'm pink with embarrassment, just like floyd, and feel like I'm about to be stepped on like a beatle, or tossed out like a rolling stone... which is hard to do since we know they don't gather no moss and I'm up here were Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ) I'm going to the store now... ;) - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 20:44:37 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: [db] Exploding Michelin tires At 06:14 PM 9/2/2003, Robert Chase wrote: >Yeah, >Im going to shop around when it comes to buying tires next..... >I like the new ones though..... They are a harder ride but smoother and >more balanced.... >Robert. harder ride, but smoother? huh. I hope they are round either way. ;) back in the days of nylon bias ply tires in subzero weather you'd loosen any filling you might have had within the first couple blocks... :) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 03:06:24 -0500 From: Jon Filina Subject: Re: [db] Exploding Michelin tires Deranged John wrote: > Hard to say, if you had your tunes cranked up you might > have missed it... that heavy metal is hard to hear mechanical > problems over, or maybe it was the rap you had tuned in > at the time... or heaven forbid, country and western, > the only two kinds of music that even I can't stand. ;) Uh Oh...I see a music appreciation lecture on the horizon... > john > (that last line probably went over like a led zepplin, > so I'm pink with embarrassment, just like floyd, and > feel like I'm about to be stepped on like a beatle, > or tossed out like a rolling stone... which is hard > to do since we know they don't gather no moss and > I'm up here were Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ) No use trying to back out of it! I sense you feel heavy metal, of the "pre-thrash" era as being acceptable. Zep was great, as were The James Gang and the Yardbirds. Thrash was trash... You'll get no argument here. Just yesterday I was rocking out to The James Gang doing Funk #48 and 49 and Bomber. That's pre-Zep and stills sounds great! Pink Floyd, the Beatles and Stones laid out the path to the future. Moldy Jeeps were an acquired taste... > I'm going to the store now... ;) To get your valium?? If I have to listen to one more rap "song", as selected by the youngsters I work with, I'll be hitting you up for a few of the pills in your prescription... ;-) "Rap" or "Exploding Michelins"?? I take the Michelins...At least I can fix the problem!!! Jon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 06:35:42 +0100 From: Renaud OLGIATI Subject: Re: [db] Exploding Michelin tires Well, just today I have replaced with Michelins X the Firestones on my 2CV; dont know about high-speed behaviour (the 2CV does not do high speeds ;-3) but to me any other tread design looks wrong on a 2CV. Cheers, Ron. - -- Il est plus honteux de se difier de ses amis que d'en jtre trompi. -- Duc de Larochefoucault -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 07:30:20 -0400 From: "Aimino, Michael" Subject: RE: [db] Replacing rear E brake shoes on 87 300D Depends on what's meant by separated. If he means that the bearing was bad, i.e., that the inner race separated from the rest of the bearing, then I'd say it's neither usual or unusual, it's just one of those things that wear out eventually. If the bearing was in that bad of condition, however, I'm surprised that it wasn't replaced sooner - it would have been making quite an awful noise. - -----Original Message----- From: r fell [mailto:carrera2-at-rochester.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 4:41 PM To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: [db] Replacing rear E brake shoes on 87 300D My mechanic tells me when the wheel hub is pulled to replace the shoes the wheel bearing separated and I need a replacement. Is this what usually happens in this repair? Thank you for any advice given ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 08:43:20 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] Exploding Michelin tires > Well, the fastest I have ever driven my SDL is 111mph; really. Gun > barrel Nebraska roads with no one else for hours; in Alfa terms, an > Italian tune-up. This was on Michelin MXV4 Plus, which are V rated. > NTB in Tucker, where I used to live, would not sell me anything of a > lesser speed rating. Nevertheless, I was not comfortable with the NTB > experience. They were better as NTW. You may remember. Yeah... Its been a downhill experience for years now...... We went to this same store for years and remember it being built 10 years ago..... My brother had a good experience with them when he pulled a less than bright move in his Maxima and ran it off the road and blew out 2 tires and destroyed 2 wheels. They ordered him wheels and covered the tires under road hazzard and were generally easy to deal with..... Oh my SD has a "Jimmy Carter" spedometer I have no idea how fast I have gotten it but I have maxed it out a few times. > > I checked the tirerack site for my car and the minimum speed rating for > the SDL on non-winter tires is 130mph or H rated. I can't imagine my > car is that much heavier than yours but I'm running 15" rims. For the > same ground speed, the larger circumference would be turning at a slower > perimeter speed right? I always had to work that out on paper. I don't think your much heavier but you do have a bit more weight with that longer rear door and longer body...... I have 14inch wheels on my car now but will probably change to the 15inch wheels soon once these tires get some wear on them (its nice having two cars that take identical equipment as my brother will get this set when I upgrade wheels) > > I'm running Pirelli P4000s now. A much stiffer ride but better > cornering, not that I need THAT out in the high plains. I do miss GA. > The Sumitomo's are interesting.... They are harsher over bumps and a little more noisy but they are smoother overall on slow roads and on the expressway.... The Michelins had some harmonic vibrations at certain road speeds even when new and these tires are very well balanced and smooth...... They give the car grip that amazes me for such a large vehicle.... They do work the suspension harder though..... Im developing come creaks and groans out of the suspension so it sounds like I need to get under their with a grease gun and take car of it. Robert Chase ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 08:47:41 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] Exploding Michelin tires john wrote: > I doubt that a valve stem caused a blow out... that borders > on the absurd. Yep.... Thats what I was yelling at the guy for over 30-45minutes but they did not care. NTB was more concerned with their out of pocket expese of replacing the tires. > If you were running S rated tires in hot weather, fast, on > a heavy car they probably separated and came apart plain > and simple. Yes... Once I realized that they were S rated tires the problems all made sense...... > If the valve stem had popped out the tire would have deflated > and you would have noticed it's gradual air lose, along > with a probable hissing/whistling sound. > > Hard to say, if you had your tunes cranked up you might > have missed it... that heavy metal is hard to hear mechanical > problems over, or maybe it was the rap you had tuned in > at the time... or heaven forbid, country and western, > the only two kinds of music that even I can't stand. ;) Actually I was listening to some Vivaldi. And my radio lately has been having some issues so one does not crank it up unless they want to risk damaging something.... I would have heard hissing..... Robert Chase ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 08:51:15 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] Exploding Michelin tires > harder ride, but smoother? huh. Yeah... A little hard to explain..... They seem to let the suspension of the car do all of the work for the ride quality..... They are harder tires and do not deal with bumps all that well and they are a noiser tire but the S class suspsension absorbs most of the road feel. The Michelins would vibrate at certain speeds and pass some road harshness to the steering wheel.... These tires dont do that. All the way up to the limit of my spedometer is smooth with no vibrations.... ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1204 **********************************