From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Tue Sep 9 18:30:15 2003 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, September 9 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1209 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] 190D AC woes Re: [db] 190D AC woes Re: [db] 190D AC woes Re: [db] blinkers out on a 81 300td RE: [db] blinkers out on a 81 300td Re: [db] 190D AC woesi Re: [db] blinkers out on a 81 300td Re: [db] blinkers out on a 81 300td (update) RE: [db] blinkers out on a 81 300td (update) RE: [db] blinkers out on a 81 300td (update) Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 17:28:52 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] 190D AC woes Eeek, Sound's like we will both be shopping for A/C compressors next summer :). Robert Chase scott_haaland-at-agilent.com wrote: > Hi Diesel Benz enthusiasts, > > My newly acquired 1985 W201 2.2L Non-Turbo 190D has it's first showstopper > issue which will require me to get greasy. I'm having some interesting > symptoms that are giving me mixed signals, and any ideas are appreciated: > > 1) Going to pick up some yummy Chinese food "to go" last week - > 10 minute drive from home...AC works fine > 2) Turn off car to get the Chinese food (mmmm...general's > chicken is good at this place) > 3) On the drive back, the car got unbearably hot inside...what's going on? > AC is not seeming to work...try switching on and off with buttons. > No noticeable engagement of the AC clutch (you can usually feel > a power drain from the scarce 73 hp total) > 4) Decide to roll down the windows and deal with it > 5) Get home a bit hot, but not too bad, only 96 degrees today > 6) I run a quick test of turning on the AC and visual looking > at the AC...clutch not engaged for sure...try switching on > and off a couple of times...no engagement. > 7) A couple of days later, I move it out of the driveway and > run another curiosity test...(I wonder if it's still broken). > When I turn it on, the clutch obviously engaged, but it stalls > the engine!!! That's weird...I try it again...stalls again. > This isn't good.....seems that the compressor might be seized up. > 8) Sunday afternoon, I decide to wash all three cars...when I move > the 190D, I do the curiosity test again. This time, no > engagement at all, the clutch won't budge (probably better > for my engine's sake). > > So, do I have multiple problems? I'm guessing there is some electical > problem with the switch or fuse or ?? which causes it to not engage > sometimes. When it does engage, if it is siezed up, this is a bigger > problem....means I need a new/different compressor? > > Any thoughts? > > Thanks in advance, > Scott "back in the Acura just in case it gets hot" in Sunny Roseville CA. > > P.S. John, was there any warranty from the place that you bought that > compressor you put in this thing? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 18:05:58 -0400 From: Mike Frank Subject: Re: [db] 190D AC woes A few thoughts on this. 1) Before you tear into the A/C system (which is disgustingly complicated), check your vacuum system. I recently had a similar problem, compressor wouldn't engage, and air temp unbearably hot. Turned out to be a vacuum connector on the EGR valve. It wasn't obvious that there was a vacuum problem until I checked it three times. A dollar's worth of hose and a few bucks for three-way and two-way connectors replaced all the vaccum fittings under the hood. Fixed a multitude of minor and major problems. 2) If your A/C pump is seizing, there's a compressor speed sensor in there that will trigger the brain box to disengage the clutch. 3) I had to replace the compressor shortly after I bought the car this spring. Cheapest price I found was from Airco http://www.aircoparts.com/. I then found out that I'm a Four Seasons dealer (I do a fair amount of business with the parent company), so I was able to get dealer pricing on one of their rebuilts. If anyone else needs a compressor, I'd be glad to pass my discount along. 4) There are two compressors which were used, on and off, throughout the 190 product run. If you order one, you'll probably find that you really needed the other. 5) Check out : http://www.mercedesshop.com/diy_stevebfl_0.htm Mike Frank ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 15:09:46 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] 190D AC woes On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 scott_haaland-at-agilent.com wrote: >-->Hi Diesel Benz enthusiasts, >-->P.S. John, was there any warranty from the place that you bought that >-->compressor you put in this thing? 800.426.6464 parts-at-auroraaw.com not sure how long they provide a warranty... hasn't been that long though, and they messed up by sending me the wrong one at first, so they should remember us. ;) let me know if you need me to call 'em up and get it covered. It's not a hard swap at all... what's strange is there are sensors to prevent it from stalling the motor... give 'em a call straight away... they close at 5pm our time. meister distribution & services is how it may be listed, or just with my name... later, john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. Suggestions: email in plain text w/o attachments, and trust Jesus. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The revolt is underway, the penguin is coming... I can hear the slap of his little feet... and the squishing of worms and sco lawyers under them... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 19:22:28 -0400 From: "J.B. Hebert" Subject: Re: [db] blinkers out on a 81 300td It could be the actual blinker unit. Do the hazards work? I'd have to check my wiring diagrams, but I think the hazards and the turn signals use a common blinker. J.B. At 01:20 PM 9/8/2003 -0700, you wrote: >So I just noticed this morning that my blinkers are >out on my 81 300td. > >All four blinkers are out and nothing on the dashboard >indicator lights when I flip the lever on the >streeting coloum. > > >So, my question for the group. What should I be >looking for to debug this problem. Is there some sort >of neuance like "is the right rear blinker bulb burned >out, then all four will fail" or anything like that? >I just checked the fuses at the box and all looks good >there? Is there any other fuse i should check? (they >sometimes put these things in the strangest spots!!!) > >My little voice is telling me that maybe the coloum >switch broke, but I have no evidence of that. Just no >blinker lights.. > >Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. >-hue- > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software >http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 18:16:46 -0700 From: "Jeremy Bowne" Subject: RE: [db] blinkers out on a 81 300td I believe there is a common relay. In my 116 if the hazard light switch is unplugged, the blinkers won't work... Don't know if that helps anything or made you more confused ;) - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of J.B. Hebert Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 4:22 PM To: hue wong Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: [db] blinkers out on a 81 300td It could be the actual blinker unit. Do the hazards work? I'd have to check my wiring diagrams, but I think the hazards and the turn signals use a common blinker. J.B. At 01:20 PM 9/8/2003 -0700, you wrote: >So I just noticed this morning that my blinkers are >out on my 81 300td. > >All four blinkers are out and nothing on the dashboard >indicator lights when I flip the lever on the >streeting coloum. > > >So, my question for the group. What should I be >looking for to debug this problem. Is there some sort >of neuance like "is the right rear blinker bulb burned >out, then all four will fail" or anything like that? >I just checked the fuses at the box and all looks good >there? Is there any other fuse i should check? (they >sometimes put these things in the strangest spots!!!) > >My little voice is telling me that maybe the coloum >switch broke, but I have no evidence of that. Just no >blinker lights.. > >Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. >-hue- > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software >http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 18:18:00 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] 190D AC woesi I'm wondering if a connector didn't work loose or something... hard to say... john On Mon, 8 Sep 2003, Mike Frank wrote: >-->A few thoughts on this. >--> >-->1) Before you tear into the A/C system (which is disgustingly complicated), >-->check your vacuum system. I recently had a similar problem, compressor >-->wouldn't engage, and air temp unbearably hot. Turned out to be a vacuum >-->connector on the EGR valve. It wasn't obvious that there was a vacuum >-->problem until I checked it three times. A dollar's worth of hose and a few >-->bucks for three-way and two-way connectors replaced all the vaccum fittings >-->under the hood. Fixed a multitude of minor and major problems. >--> >-->2) If your A/C pump is seizing, there's a compressor speed sensor in there >-->that will trigger the brain box to disengage the clutch. >--> >-->3) I had to replace the compressor shortly after I bought the car this >-->spring. Cheapest price I found was from Airco http://www.aircoparts.com/. I >-->then found out that I'm a Four Seasons dealer (I do a fair amount of >-->business with the parent company), so I was able to get dealer pricing on >-->one of their rebuilts. If anyone else needs a compressor, I'd be glad to >-->pass my discount along. >--> >-->4) There are two compressors which were used, on and off, throughout the >-->190 product run. If you order one, you'll probably find that you really >-->needed the other. >--> >-->5) Check out : http://www.mercedesshop.com/diy_stevebfl_0.htm >--> >-->Mike Frank >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. Suggestions: email in plain text w/o attachments, and trust Jesus. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The revolt is underway, the penguin is coming... I can hear the slap of his little feet... and the squishing of worms and sco lawyers under them... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 19:07:42 -0700 (PDT) From: hue wong Subject: Re: [db] blinkers out on a 81 300td MMMMM I usta have to replace the "flash can" in my 71 vw bug on a semi-regular basis. This was some sort of rehostate/capacitor/resistor type thing that ran the flash. It was located under the back seats. I'm wondering if this might be the defective unit in question.... - --- "J.B. Hebert" wrote: > It could be the actual blinker unit. Do the hazards > work? I'd have to > check my wiring diagrams, but I think the hazards > and the turn signals use > a common blinker. > > J.B. > > At 01:20 PM 9/8/2003 -0700, you wrote: > >So I just noticed this morning that my blinkers are > >out on my 81 300td. > > > >All four blinkers are out and nothing on the > dashboard > >indicator lights when I flip the lever on the > >streeting coloum. > > > > > >So, my question for the group. What should I be > >looking for to debug this problem. Is there some > sort > >of neuance like "is the right rear blinker bulb > burned > >out, then all four will fail" or anything like > that? > >I just checked the fuses at the box and all looks > good > >there? Is there any other fuse i should check? > (they > >sometimes put these things in the strangest > spots!!!) > > > >My little voice is telling me that maybe the coloum > >switch broke, but I have no evidence of that. Just > no > >blinker lights.. > > > >Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. > >-hue- > > > > > >__________________________________ > >Do you Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > design software > >http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 20:05:23 -0700 (PDT) From: hue wong Subject: Re: [db] blinkers out on a 81 300td (update) So I mossy out tot the car and flip the hazzards on, at the recomendation of fellow listers, The flashers fire up nice and strong, then for fun I try the blinker. Yup, everything works fine after I ran some power through the hazzzards.. So now I am uber fearful of an electrical gremblin, or could this just be that relay going bad? Is it time to replace it? Anyone know how easy and how much the part is? Thanx - -hue- - --- hue wong wrote: > MMMMM I usta have to replace the "flash can" in my > 71 > vw bug on a semi-regular basis. This was some sort > of > rehostate/capacitor/resistor type thing that ran the > flash. It was located under the back seats. > I'm wondering if this might be the defective unit in > question.... > > --- "J.B. Hebert" wrote: > > It could be the actual blinker unit. Do the > hazards > > work? I'd have to > > check my wiring diagrams, but I think the hazards > > and the turn signals use > > a common blinker. > > > > J.B. > > > > At 01:20 PM 9/8/2003 -0700, you wrote: > > >So I just noticed this morning that my blinkers > are > > >out on my 81 300td. > > > > > >All four blinkers are out and nothing on the > > dashboard > > >indicator lights when I flip the lever on the > > >streeting coloum. > > > > > > > > >So, my question for the group. What should I be > > >looking for to debug this problem. Is there some > > sort > > >of neuance like "is the right rear blinker bulb > > burned > > >out, then all four will fail" or anything like > > that? > > >I just checked the fuses at the box and all looks > > good > > >there? Is there any other fuse i should check? > > (they > > >sometimes put these things in the strangest > > spots!!!) > > > > > >My little voice is telling me that maybe the > coloum > > >switch broke, but I have no evidence of that. > Just > > no > > >blinker lights.. > > > > > >Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. > > >-hue- > > > > > > > > >__________________________________ > > >Do you Yahoo!? > > >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > > design software > > >http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 01:00:02 -0500 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: [db] blinkers out on a 81 300td (update) My money says ignore this completely. I bet someone bumped the hazard lights switch a little. When that puppy is not cleanly switched off, turn signals are completely unavailable. At least you'll know what to check first if it ever happens again, kind of like learning to check the automatic transmission gear selector when you get absolutely no response while trying to start the engine. At least once or twice a year I manage to turn my car off still in D. Since I always set the parking brake, I don't notice my mistake until I get the flash of panic when turning the key to Start causes complete silence. I then look down, push it up into Park, and breathe a big sigh of relief. Alec > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of hue wong > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 10:05 PM > To: hue wong; J.B. Hebert > Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: [db] blinkers out on a 81 300td (update) > > > So I mossy out tot the car and flip the hazzards on, > at the recomendation of fellow listers, > The flashers fire up nice and strong, then for fun I > try the blinker. Yup, everything works fine after I > ran some power through the hazzzards.. > > So now I am uber fearful of an electrical gremblin, or > could this just be that relay going bad? Is it time > to replace it? Anyone know how easy and how much the > part is? > Thanx > -hue- > > --- hue wong wrote: > > MMMMM I usta have to replace the "flash can" in my > > 71 > > vw bug on a semi-regular basis. This was some sort > > of > > rehostate/capacitor/resistor type thing that ran the > > flash. It was located under the back seats. > > I'm wondering if this might be the defective unit in > > question.... > > > > --- "J.B. Hebert" wrote: > > > It could be the actual blinker unit. Do the > > hazards > > > work? I'd have to > > > check my wiring diagrams, but I think the hazards > > > and the turn signals use > > > a common blinker. > > > > > > J.B. > > > > > > At 01:20 PM 9/8/2003 -0700, you wrote: > > > >So I just noticed this morning that my blinkers > > are > > > >out on my 81 300td. > > > > > > > >All four blinkers are out and nothing on the > > > dashboard > > > >indicator lights when I flip the lever on the > > > >streeting coloum. > > > > > > > > > > > >So, my question for the group. What should I be > > > >looking for to debug this problem. Is there some > > > sort > > > >of neuance like "is the right rear blinker bulb > > > burned > > > >out, then all four will fail" or anything like > > > that? > > > >I just checked the fuses at the box and all looks > > > good > > > >there? Is there any other fuse i should check? > > > (they > > > >sometimes put these things in the strangest > > > spots!!!) > > > > > > > >My little voice is telling me that maybe the > > coloum > > > >switch broke, but I have no evidence of that. > > Just > > > no > > > >blinker lights.. > > > > > > > >Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. > > > >-hue- > > > > > > > > > > > >__________________________________ > > > >Do you Yahoo!? > > > >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > > > design software > > > >http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > > design software > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 16:18:18 +1000 From: Guy Carpenter Subject: RE: [db] blinkers out on a 81 300td (update) Yes, I know that one... One evening, not long after I bought my 300d, I was over at a friends and I pulled the fuse box off the firewall to get at the wires in the back (which turned out to be pointless, but that's another story). I had to reassemble in a hurry because of failing daylight. On the way home I stopped at the store to get some milk, and found she wouldn't start. I was so convinced I had shorted or disconnected something during the reassembly that I immediately started checking fuses and cables, and then pulling the fuse box back out to look at where we had been working. Fiddly job in the dark in the carpark. It was only after about 15 minutes with a flashlight and a multimeter that it dawned on me; it was in D instead of P. Urm. Yes, well I'll be going now. At 01:00 AM 9/09/2003 -0500, Alec Cordova wrote: >At least you'll know what to check first if it ever happens again, kind of >like learning to check the automatic transmission gear selector when you get >absolutely no response while trying to start the engine. At least once or >twice a year I manage to turn my car off still in D. Since I always set the >parking brake, I don't notice my mistake until I get the flash of panic when >turning the key to Start causes complete silence. I then look down, push it >up into Park, and breathe a big sigh of relief. ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1209 **********************************