From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Thu Sep 11 08:12:09 2003 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Thursday, September 11 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1212 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] back to buttercup [none] [db] 190D 5spd on ebay Re: [db] 190D 5spd on ebay Re: [db] MB Window motor question [db] worrisome weirdness Re: [db] worrisome weirdness Re: [db] back to buttercup Re: [db] worrisome weirdness Re: [db] back to buttercup Re: [db] back to buttercup RE: [db] back to buttercup Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 19:32:12 -0800 From: "corey church" Subject: [db] back to buttercup Hello everyone, I have finally gotten around to checking out buttercup. I had the injectors checked as outlined before and the injectors were blued, but they figured it would run ok. I reinstalled them with new heat shields. I also adjusted the valves while I have the valve cover off, and checked the timing chain stretch. With the marks lined up on the cam gear and the mark on the cam bearing, the indicator on the crank indicates 10 to the left of the 0/0 mark when looking from the front of the car. I understand that this means that I will require a new timing chain. When I started the car, it seemed to idle ok, but I'm not sure if it is as smooth as it should be. The oil pressure went right to the pin on the high side of the gauge. On recommendation of the diesel shop I had the injectors at, I loosened the lines on the injectors one by one to determine where the problem was. #2-5 injectors when loosened would nearly stall the car, but there was no change on #1. When #1 was loosened, fuel spurted out, but I'm not sure how to tell if pressure is ok. When I increased the rpm, the engine had a distince knock near the front of the valve cover. I'm fairly sure that it was in the top end of the motor and not in the bottom end as first suspected. Does anyone have any suggestions on what and how to test the next thing? Also, I need to adjust the linkages for the throttle etc, does anyone know how to do it? Thanks for your help Corey - -- corey church coreychurch-at-fastmail.fm - -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 21:06:38 -0700 From: john Subject: [none] sounds to me like #1 injector is bad. swap #1 with #5 and repeat the test... if the knock moves to the back and there's no change in the engine when loosening the line, you've found your problem. no rod problems, but that injector will sound like a bad rod to someone unfamiliar with Diesels... been there done that... only thing that kept me from panic was it sounded too high in the motor to be a real rod problem... and I was too poor to yard the motor out so I tried swapping injectors and found the problem. :) john At 08:32 PM 9/10/2003, corey church wrote: >determine where the problem was. #2-5 injectors when loosened would >nearly stall the car, but there was no change on #1. When #1 was >loosened, fuel spurted out, but I'm not sure how to tell if pressure is >ok. >When I increased the rpm, the engine had a distince knock near the front >of the valve cover. I'm fairly sure that it was in the top end of the >motor and not in the bottom end as first suspected. > Does anyone have any suggestions on what and how to test the next > thing? > Also, I need to adjust the linkages for the throttle etc, does anyone > know how to do it? >Thanks for your help >Corey - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 01:52:02 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: [db] 190D 5spd on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6328&item=2432056656 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 23:56:34 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] 190D 5spd on ebay On Thu, Sep 11, 2003 at 01:52:02AM -0400, Robert Chase wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6328&item=2432056656 Nice car. If someone's looking for a nice w201, this will certainly get you in trouble. It's in NH, so it's a bit of a drive, and yes, it has rust, but doesn't appear to have as much as mine, which is probably a good thing. Working on mine has required liberal use of the 8 amp electric ratchet :) Anyways. 84 means it's a 2.2, and a 2.2 manual in a w201 gets 40 mpg with a failing injector, AMHIK :) And the manual REALLY does make the car. Family members with v8s drive my 190D and really enjoy the ride. I think they also enjoy the fuel consumption difference, but not one complains about how it can't get out of its own way. I don't think the same would be true if I had an automatic. As much as people on this list say the 123 is the best car (yeah, I agree), the 2.2 190D is still an extremely simple car with a modern look to it, with a fairly robust engine. It ain't no 123 and it ain't no 617, but parts are cheaper for it than my 94 crown vic, and it's a far simpler machine to work on. The 2.2 w201 also gets far better mileage than most w123s can muster. Yes, I know JC's 300D got 38, and no, I can't explain how something significantly heavier with eight tenths more liters of an engine can get the same mileage. I guess JC's just a diesel gawd :) K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 21:38:09 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: [db] MB Window motor question ck switch in console first... that's how fritz got his name... I pulled the reg out of the 123 door... got better and faster over time... rube had a hand in that design too. ;) john At 09:29 PM 9/7/2003, Robert Chase wrote: >I saw a site that someone did it with a 124 or a 201 and they had to >remove the regulator. I was hoping to avoid that but then again it might >not be that bad of a thing. I have seen used regulator/motor assemblies >on ebay.... > >I might do some electrical troubleshooting first though. > >Robert. > >Mike Frank wrote: > >>As I recall, it was necessary to remove the regulator. But this wasn't a >>very difficult job. >>Mike Frank >>At 06:14 PM 9/7/2003 -0400, Robert Chase wrote: >> >>>Drivers side power window has not worked for a while and I am >>>considering getting it taken care of soon. Can one just replace the >>>motor without removing the regulator or does one have to remove the >>>regulator to get to the motor? - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 19:09:56 -0700 From: john Subject: [db] worrisome weirdness twice now while driving down the freeway I've glanced down and noticed the glow plug light on... everything works ok on the car... I usually turn the ignition switch back one notch and then back on and it goes out... anyone with a 124 ever experienced this? is this some future and expensive problem? ('91 300d 2.5L TD) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 06:27:26 -0700 From: Greg Fiorentino Subject: Re: [db] worrisome weirdness At 07:09 PM 9/7/03 , john wrote: >twice now while driving down the freeway I've glanced down >and noticed the glow plug light on... > >everything works ok on the car... I usually turn the ignition >switch back one notch and then back on and it goes out... > >anyone with a 124 ever experienced this? is this some future >and expensive problem? ('91 300d 2.5L TD) > >john I had the same symptom with my 300D. Shortly afterwards, my GP relay went south. This was last January, and the wife and I had gone to a retirement dinner. Luckily, it was a mild night and the engine started without glowing after a few cranks. The relay tested bad with a VOM, and the replacement cost about $125. Greg Greg Fiorentino gfior-at-dslnorthwest.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 08:56:35 -0500 From: "Kaleb C. Striplin" Subject: Re: [db] back to buttercup Please tell me buttercup is not your car. My dad calls his yellow 78 300SD buttercup. Small world. corey church wrote: > Hello everyone, > I have finally gotten around to checking out buttercup. I had the > injectors checked as outlined before and the injectors were blued, but > they figured it would run ok. I reinstalled them with new heat > shields. I also adjusted the valves while I have the valve cover off, > and checked the timing chain stretch. With the marks lined up on the > cam gear and the mark on the cam bearing, the indicator on the crank > indicates 10 to the left of the 0/0 mark when looking from the front > of the car. I understand that this means that I will require a new > timing chain. > When I started the car, it seemed to idle ok, but I'm not sure if it is > as smooth as it should be. The oil pressure went right to the pin on the > high side of the gauge. On recommendation of the diesel shop I had the > injectors at, I loosened the lines on the injectors one by one to > determine where the problem was. #2-5 injectors when loosened would > nearly stall the car, but there was no change on #1. When #1 was > loosened, fuel spurted out, but I'm not sure how to tell if pressure is > ok. > When I increased the rpm, the engine had a distince knock near the front > of the valve cover. I'm fairly sure that it was in the top end of the > motor and not in the bottom end as first suspected. > Does anyone have any suggestions on what and how to test the next > thing? > Also, I need to adjust the linkages for the throttle etc, does anyone > know how to do it? > Thanks for your help > Corey - -- Kaleb C. Striplin/ Claremore, OK Mercedes-Benz Club of America Member Since 1991 MBZ.org Diesel/LL/123/124 List Administrator 89 560SEL, 85 300SD, 85 380SE, 84 380SE, 82 300D, 81 500SE, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 79 450SEL, 77 300D, 76 240D Parts Cars: 84 300TD, 84 300D, 82 240D, 81 300SD, 81 300TD, 79 240D, 78 300SD, 78 300D, 77 300D 76 300D, 75 240D, 75 240D ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 07:15:10 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: [db] worrisome weirdness that doesn't sound so severe, at least I have an idea now what it might be... relief... thanx. john At 06:27 AM 9/11/2003, Greg Fiorentino wrote: >At 07:09 PM 9/7/03 , john wrote: >>twice now while driving down the freeway I've glanced down >>and noticed the glow plug light on... >> >>everything works ok on the car... I usually turn the ignition >>switch back one notch and then back on and it goes out... >> >>anyone with a 124 ever experienced this? is this some future >>and expensive problem? ('91 300d 2.5L TD) >> >>john > > >I had the same symptom with my 300D. Shortly afterwards, my GP relay went >south. This was last January, and the wife and I had gone to a retirement >dinner. Luckily, it was a mild night and the engine started without >glowing after a few cranks. The relay tested bad with a VOM, and the >replacement cost about $125. > >Greg >Greg Fiorentino >gfior-at-dslnorthwest.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 07:17:18 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: [db] back to buttercup the engineer that I got the car from had called it that... probably be better calling this one "cream puff" since it had creamed a hyuandi... ;) john At 06:56 AM 9/11/2003, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: >Please tell me buttercup is not your car. My dad calls his yellow 78 >300SD buttercup. Small world. > >corey church wrote: > >>Hello everyone, >> I have finally gotten around to checking out buttercup. I had the >> injectors checked as outlined before and the injectors were blued, but >> they figured it would run ok. I reinstalled them with new heat >> shields. I also adjusted the valves while I have the valve cover off, >> and checked the timing chain stretch. With the marks lined up on the >> cam gear and the mark on the cam bearing, the indicator on the crank >> indicates 10 to the left of the 0/0 mark when looking from the front >> of the car. I understand that this means that I will require a new >> timing chain. >>When I started the car, it seemed to idle ok, but I'm not sure if it is >>as smooth as it should be. The oil pressure went right to the pin on the >>high side of the gauge. On recommendation of the diesel shop I had the >>injectors at, I loosened the lines on the injectors one by one to >>determine where the problem was. #2-5 injectors when loosened would >>nearly stall the car, but there was no change on #1. When #1 was >>loosened, fuel spurted out, but I'm not sure how to tell if pressure is >>ok. >>When I increased the rpm, the engine had a distince knock near the front >>of the valve cover. I'm fairly sure that it was in the top end of the >>motor and not in the bottom end as first suspected. >> Does anyone have any suggestions on what and how to test the next >> thing? >> Also, I need to adjust the linkages for the throttle etc, does anyone >> know how to do it? >>Thanks for your help >>Corey > >-- >Kaleb C. Striplin/ Claremore, OK > Mercedes-Benz Club of America Member Since 1991 > MBZ.org Diesel/LL/123/124 List Administrator > 89 560SEL, 85 300SD, 85 380SE, 84 380SE, 82 300D, > 81 500SE, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 79 450SEL, 77 300D, 76 240D >Parts Cars: > 84 300TD, 84 300D, 82 240D, 81 300SD, 81 300TD, 79 240D, > 78 300SD, 78 300D, 77 300D 76 300D, 75 240D, 75 240D - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 09:25:26 -0500 From: "Kaleb C. Striplin" Subject: Re: [db] back to buttercup hahaha john wrote: > the engineer that I got the car from had called it that... > > probably be better calling this one "cream puff" since it > had creamed a hyuandi... ;) > > john > > > At 06:56 AM 9/11/2003, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: > >> Please tell me buttercup is not your car. My dad calls his yellow 78 >> 300SD buttercup. Small world. >> >> corey church wrote: >> >>> Hello everyone, >>> I have finally gotten around to checking out buttercup. I had the >>> injectors checked as outlined before and the injectors were blued, >>> but >>> they figured it would run ok. I reinstalled them with new heat >>> shields. I also adjusted the valves while I have the valve cover >>> off, >>> and checked the timing chain stretch. With the marks lined up on the >>> cam gear and the mark on the cam bearing, the indicator on the crank >>> indicates 10 to the left of the 0/0 mark when looking from the front >>> of the car. I understand that this means that I will require a new >>> timing chain. >>> When I started the car, it seemed to idle ok, but I'm not sure if it is >>> as smooth as it should be. The oil pressure went right to the pin on >>> the >>> high side of the gauge. On recommendation of the diesel shop I had the >>> injectors at, I loosened the lines on the injectors one by one to >>> determine where the problem was. #2-5 injectors when loosened would >>> nearly stall the car, but there was no change on #1. When #1 was >>> loosened, fuel spurted out, but I'm not sure how to tell if pressure is >>> ok. >>> When I increased the rpm, the engine had a distince knock near the front >>> of the valve cover. I'm fairly sure that it was in the top end of the >>> motor and not in the bottom end as first suspected. >>> Does anyone have any suggestions on what and how to test the next >>> thing? >>> Also, I need to adjust the linkages for the throttle etc, does anyone >>> know how to do it? >>> Thanks for your help >>> Corey >> >> >> -- >> Kaleb C. Striplin/ Claremore, OK >> Mercedes-Benz Club of America Member Since 1991 >> MBZ.org Diesel/LL/123/124 List Administrator >> 89 560SEL, 85 300SD, 85 380SE, 84 380SE, 82 300D, >> 81 500SE, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 79 450SEL, 77 300D, 76 240D >> Parts Cars: >> 84 300TD, 84 300D, 82 240D, 81 300SD, 81 300TD, 79 240D, >> 78 300SD, 78 300D, 77 300D 76 300D, 75 240D, 75 240D > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > - -- Kaleb C. Striplin/ Claremore, OK Mercedes-Benz Club of America Member Since 1991 MBZ.org Diesel/LL/123/124 List Administrator 89 560SEL, 85 300SD, 85 380SE, 84 380SE, 82 300D, 81 500SE, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 79 450SEL, 77 300D, 76 240D Parts Cars: 84 300TD, 84 300D, 82 240D, 81 300SD, 81 300TD, 79 240D, 78 300SD, 78 300D, 77 300D 76 300D, 75 240D, 75 240D ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 09:45:06 -0500 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: [db] back to buttercup Our first 123, a 1980 240D automatic, answered sweetly to Creampuff. She was that same light ivory beige color. Alec > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john > Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 9:17 AM > To: Kaleb C. Striplin > Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: [db] back to buttercup > > > the engineer that I got the car from had called it that... > > probably be better calling this one "cream puff" since it > had creamed a hyuandi... ;) > > john > > > At 06:56 AM 9/11/2003, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: > >Please tell me buttercup is not your car. My dad calls his yellow 78 > >300SD buttercup. Small world. > > > >corey church wrote: > > > >>Hello everyone, > >> I have finally gotten around to checking out buttercup. I had the > >> injectors checked as outlined before and the injectors were > blued, but > >> they figured it would run ok. I reinstalled them with new heat > >> shields. I also adjusted the valves while I have the valve > cover off, > >> and checked the timing chain stretch. With the marks lined > up on the > >> cam gear and the mark on the cam bearing, the indicator on the crank > >> indicates 10 to the left of the 0/0 mark when looking from the front > >> of the car. I understand that this means that I will require a new > >> timing chain. > >>When I started the car, it seemed to idle ok, but I'm not sure if it is > >>as smooth as it should be. The oil pressure went right to the > pin on the > >>high side of the gauge. On recommendation of the diesel shop I had the > >>injectors at, I loosened the lines on the injectors one by one to > >>determine where the problem was. #2-5 injectors when loosened would > >>nearly stall the car, but there was no change on #1. When #1 was > >>loosened, fuel spurted out, but I'm not sure how to tell if pressure is > >>ok. > >>When I increased the rpm, the engine had a distince knock near the front > >>of the valve cover. I'm fairly sure that it was in the top end of the > >>motor and not in the bottom end as first suspected. > >> Does anyone have any suggestions on what and how to test the next > >> thing? > >> Also, I need to adjust the linkages for the throttle etc, > does anyone > >> know how to do it? > >>Thanks for your help > >>Corey > > > >-- > >Kaleb C. Striplin/ Claremore, OK > > Mercedes-Benz Club of America Member Since 1991 > > MBZ.org Diesel/LL/123/124 List Administrator > > 89 560SEL, 85 300SD, 85 380SE, 84 380SE, 82 300D, > > 81 500SE, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 79 450SEL, 77 300D, 76 240D > >Parts Cars: > > 84 300TD, 84 300D, 82 240D, 81 300SD, 81 300TD, 79 240D, > > 78 300SD, 78 300D, 77 300D 76 300D, 75 240D, 75 240D > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1212 **********************************