From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Mon Sep 15 07:24:56 2003 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Monday, September 15 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1216 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] my saturday wrenchin' [db] 300d update [db] valve trouble? [db] radiator hose quality Re: [db] valve trouble? [db] detroit - sept 22-26 Re: [db] valve trouble? [db] Re: FW: [SWB] RE: Pre-Move stuff (fwd) RE: [db] radiator hose quality RE: [db] radiator hose quality RE: [db] radiator hose quality Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 08:46:27 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: [db] my saturday wrenchin' At 01:31 AM 9/14/2003, Robert Chase wrote: >Hmmm, >Just looked at your photos. Was it as much of a pain as it looked? >Robert. actually... no. It was a rather easy procedure... I only shed blood once... and that was after I was all done and was bleeding the lines... got in a hurry and must have banged the back of my hand against something... the worst part was not having a priming pump to prime the system, just had to crank, and crank... :( still, it was a lot easier then a 201, but not as easy as a 123 or 126. :) >john wrote: >>http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/Pressure-Valve-Seal-Replacement/ - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com from Snohomish, Washington reminding you not to leave life without Jesus. Need a choice of computing tools and operating systems? SEE: http://wagoneers.com/UNIX/options.html ============================================================================= "Microsoft Certified Professionals are to the computing industry what McDonald Certified Food Specialists are to gourmet restaurants." -Michael Bacarella 3/15/2000 (as seen on http://www.slashdot.com/) ============================================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 13:25:10 -0400 From: derick-at-amburgey.us Subject: [db] 300d update Hello, Looks like I am out of business till Monday, waiting for a part. Here is what I have done to it the past week. 1. Removed the hood hinges, they are destroyed. I am going to bungee it down front and back. 2. Plugged the vacuum leaks. I disconnected the vacuum line to the IP at the ignition switch and extended it into the cab. To shut the engine off you either suck on the tube or pump up the brake bleed tool. I will deal with the bad switch later 3. New fuses, now all the windows and sunroof work. 4. New air cleaner bracket, old one broken. 5. New voltage regulator, brushes were almost gone. 6. Removed the oil gage and ran it into the engine compartment into a Gatorade container to catch the leaking oil. 7. Tossed the driver side carpet, totally destroyed by oil leak. 8. Replaced both motor mounts. Driver side was destroyed, passenger side done for good measure. 9. Replaced front main seal, it gave up the ghost during my shake down run to Alpine at 4000 feet. 10. New tires and new front brakes. 11. New windshield. 12. New hood release cable and release lever. 13. Filters, fluids, belts and hoses. When the motor mount on the driver side gave out it allowed the P/S pulley to hit the oil cooler line and cut into it. While fixing the front seal it broke The rest of the way. So that is supposed to be in tomorrow. The turbo intake hose is cracked and I am waiting for that too, tomorrow. I am coming to the end of it and will be heading north 4 days behind schedule. The car is a hot rod compared to the 190, but it is not as responsive. I do like the car though. Once all is put back together I am going to take it on another shakedown close to home here recheck everything and call it good. I AM going to need a vacation after this vacation. ;) Derick ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:43:30 -0800 From: "corey church" Subject: [db] valve trouble? I was able to swap the #1 cylinder injector with the #5 injector to see if the knock followed the injector to the back of the engine, but it remained in the front. So, I am guessing that I have a valve problem. Do you think this is correct or is there a possiblity that the injection pump could be not providing enough pressure to the #1 injector? Or could it be a ring problem? Is there any way to test the valves? I don't have access to a diesel compression gauge. Thanks for the help Corey and Buttercup - -- corey church coreychurch-at-fastmail.fm - -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Faster than the air-speed velocity of an unladen european swallow ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 17:49:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Anaeis N Subject: [db] radiator hose quality Hey, guys. I got my radiator, thermostat and 4 radiator-associated hoses replaced last week. This may seem overly picky, but the hose that goes from the white tank where the fluid is filled (called the overflow tank?) to the radiator is a grey fabric one now, instead of plastic like the original. Would this indicate a lower-quality part? Does it say anything about the quality of other parts that may have been installed? I paid $900 combined for the radiator work and replacement of a transmission pan gasket and filter, so I want to make sure this is quality. Also, he said I have a slight oil leak from my turbo. Is this troublesome? Thanks yet again, R '82 300CD -- 222,900 miles Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 17:49:57 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: [db] valve trouble? can you get a stethoscope or use a long screwdriver to see if the sounds is coming from the injector pump, or the block or valve cover? How loud is the rattle/knock? it could be a wristpin too... it would have a knock but it would be higher in the block... I had a 4.0L with a bad wristpin and it kept going and going... a bad rod bearing is certain death however... but a wristpin might last for some time... not good to push your luck with it though, if it gives out completely it'll most likely destroy the head, valved and crank... Of course if you can find a used motor to replace it with... run it as long as you can and see what happens. I'd recommend getting a used motor to drop in rather then rebuild that one... dollar for dollar you'll be better off. Unless you can find someone that will R&R and rebuild it with parts for less than a grand... john At 05:43 PM 9/14/2003, corey church wrote: >I was able to swap the #1 cylinder injector with the #5 injector to see >if the knock followed the injector to the back of the engine, but it >remained in the front. So, I am guessing that I have a valve problem. >Do you think this is correct or is there a possiblity that the injection >pump could be not providing enough pressure to the #1 injector? Or could >it be a ring problem? Is there any way to test the valves? I don't have >access to a diesel compression gauge. >Thanks for the help >Corey and Buttercup >-- > corey church > coreychurch-at-fastmail.fm > >-- >http://www.fastmail.fm - Faster than the air-speed velocity of an > unladen european swallow - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 17:54:46 -0700 From: john Subject: [db] detroit - sept 22-26 heading to detroit sept 22 for a Unigraphics class... anyone in Livornia or whatever it's called near Detroit? john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:29:02 -0400 From: "Steve Morelen" Subject: Re: [db] valve trouble? Corey- How does the engine run? Are there idle or drive-performance problems in addition to the audible knock? Valve testing is probably best done with a leak-down test. I have a 300D with a rough idle and low compression on the rear-most cylinder. I've been waiting on a compression test-kit adapter that I will use to inject about 100 psi of air into the bad cylinder via the glow plug hole. I hope to be able to hear an air leak in the exhaust or intake manifolds indicating a leaky valve....easier to fix than piston rings. If you have to test the output pressure of the injection pump I suspect that you might have to rely on the services of a diesel injection shop. I've not heard of a way to test IP delivery pressure in the field......I think the fuel pressures are in the range of a couple thousand psi. (the injectors in my engine open up at about 135 bar or approx 1900 psi) Steve Morelen '84 300D >From: "corey church" >To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >Subject: [db] valve trouble? >Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:43:30 -0800 > >I was able to swap the #1 cylinder injector with the #5 injector to see >if the knock followed the injector to the back of the engine, but it >remained in the front. So, I am guessing that I have a valve problem. >Do you think this is correct or is there a possiblity that the injection >pump could be not providing enough pressure to the #1 injector? Or could >it be a ring problem? Is there any way to test the valves? I don't have >access to a diesel compression gauge. >Thanks for the help >Corey and Buttercup >-- > corey church > coreychurch-at-fastmail.fm > >-- >http://www.fastmail.fm - Faster than the air-speed velocity of an > unladen european swallow _________________________________________________________________ Use custom emotions -- try MSN Messenger 6.0! http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_emoticon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:40:09 -0700 From: john Subject: [db] Re: FW: [SWB] RE: Pre-Move stuff (fwd) will pass this along... does sound like a win-win... while you're at it maybe you could bring up some BBQ sauce... ;) (just kidding, we've got plenty up here...) Where are you heading up here? I lived in disgusta, er, Augusta back in the '70s/'80s while stationed at Ft. Gordon... I think you're heading in the right direction. :) john At 06:36 PM 9/14/2003, Eric wrote: >Hi Jim and John, > >I know Ben from the Jeep lists and he suggested I contact you. > >I am moving from Atlanta to Seattle and have 3 cars to transport. I was >hoping to find someone in the Northwest that would like a new gooseneck >utility trailer. I would use it to tow my Jeep and wifes car and then >deliver it to the new owner. I understand trailers in the south east are >$1000 - $2000 less due to our proximity to the major manufacturers. It's a >win-win deal. > >If you know someone who might be interested in this please pass this along. > >I will be leaving Atlanta 9/27 and hope to arrive Seattle 10/3. My only >requirement on the trailer is that it is 24' or longer. > >Thanks in advance, > >Regards, > >Eric >http://renegades.us/bios/munsen.html >(404) 431-7074 > >-----Original Message----- >From: Obi-Wan [mailto:bvh-at-inetnebr.com] >Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 2:19 PM >To: eejeep-at-mindspring.com >Subject: [SWB] RE: Pre-Move stuff (fwd) > > > > Any bites on the trailer? If you know anyone that might be interested, I > > will buy one new and transport my Jeep and wife's car on it then deliver >to > > the new owner. I have a freind that owns www.trailersforless.com and can > > get a good deal. > >I deleted the message where you described the situation, otherwise I'd >forward it myself, but you might try contacting Jim Blair (carnuck1-at-msn.com) >or John Meister (john-at-wagoneers.com), both of whom live in the Seattle >area and are long-time members of the FSJ-List. Tell them I sent you. >If they don't want it, they may know somebody who does. Jim in particular >is well-connected up in that area. > > -- Obi-Wan > '95.5 YJ, '77 Wag, '78 Wag, '87 GW > >-- >Ben "Obi-Wan" Hollingsworth obiwan-at-jedi.com > The stuff of earth competes for the allegiance I owe only to the > Giver of all good things, so if I stand, let me stand on the > promise that You will pull me through. -- Rich Mullins - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:33:25 -0500 From: "Sam Williams" <1sam-at-io.com> Subject: RE: [db] radiator hose quality R, Fabric covered hoses are generally superior to rubber/plastic hoses but that application would not require such high quality. MB did use fabric covered overflow hoses before the 70s but it's over-kill. He probably didn't have any inexpensive plastic hose, used higher quality line that happened to be handy. Maybe he is a purist, wants to return to old 'glory days' of Mereceds, one hose at a time. You might lose points in concours judging (if you plan to show the car) but will probably will never need to replace the overflow line again. I don't know much about turbo-chargers. I know they use oil in low friction bearings and many of them do leak. If he said it was slight and didn't insist you fix it then is a good sign. I would see what other list members say and discuss it with him next time you go in. Glad you no longer must worry about radiator, etc. Sam - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Anaeis N Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 7:49 PM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: [db] radiator hose quality Hey, guys. I got my radiator, thermostat and 4 radiator-associated hoses replaced last week. This may seem overly picky, but the hose that goes from the white tank where the fluid is filled (called the overflow tank?) to the radiator is a grey fabric one now, instead of plastic like the original. Would this indicate a lower-quality part? Does it say anything about the quality of other parts that may have been installed? I paid $900 combined for the radiator work and replacement of a transmission pan gasket and filter, so I want to make sure this is quality. Also, he said I have a slight oil leak from my turbo. Is this troublesome? Thanks yet again, R '82 300CD -- 222,900 miles Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 19:56:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Anaeis N Subject: RE: [db] radiator hose quality Thanks, Sam. My concern with the fabric-covered hose was that leaks and cracks would be concealed and therefore more prone to future damage being overlooked or that the fabric would absorb moisture/fluids and thereby contribute to premature wear of the tubing. Glad that you straightened me out. You're right -- my radiator woes appear to be over. Took a long drive today and the temp never got above 90. Future coupe projects include investigating the rough idle that was not solved by a valve adjustment and the rough/noisy shifting at speeds up to 30 mph. Records show the transmission was overhauled in Jan. 1999 and that there was cause for readjustment in April 1999. Always something. . . . . These can hopefully wait until 2004, and that I can increase my diesel Benz knowledge exponentially by then. happy motoring, R '82 300CD -- 222,900 miles Sam Williams <1sam-at-io.com> wrote: R, Fabric covered hoses are generally superior to rubber/plastic hoses but that application would not require such high quality. MB did use fabric covered overflow hoses before the 70s but it's over-kill. He probably didn't have any inexpensive plastic hose, used higher quality line that happened to be handy. Maybe he is a purist, wants to return to old 'glory days' of Mereceds, one hose at a time. You might lose points in concours judging (if you plan to show the car) but will probably will never need to replace the overflow line again. I don't know much about turbo-chargers. I know they use oil in low friction bearings and many of them do leak. If he said it was slight and didn't insist you fix it then is a good sign. I would see what other list members say and discuss it with him next time you go in. Glad you no longer must worry about radiator, etc. Sam Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 22:35:41 -0500 From: "Sam Williams" <1sam-at-io.com> Subject: RE: [db] radiator hose quality R, That is a valid point that I had ignored. Old MBs, that used fabric covered overflow hoses, merely expelled excess coolant; they did not draw it back into the radiator. Fabric might hide a break in the line. Maybe that is why Mercedes changed. On the other hand, symptoms for broken plastic or fabric lines would be the same and chances of a mechanic finding and replacing a broken overflow line of any style, before saying you need a $1000++ head gasket replacement, are about the same. I still think a fabric covered line is likely to outlast your new radiator, probably the whole coupe-and hope that takes a long time, indeed. Cheers, Sam - -----Original Message----- From: Anaeis N [mailto:anaeisn-at-yahoo.com] Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 9:56 PM To: 1sam-at-io.com; diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: RE: [db] radiator hose quality Thanks, Sam. My concern with the fabric-covered hose was that leaks and cracks would be concealed and therefore more prone to future damage being overlooked or that the fabric would absorb moisture/fluids and thereby contribute to premature wear of the tubing. Glad that you straightened me out. You're right -- my radiator woes appear to be over. Took a long drive today and the temp never got above 90. Future coupe projects include investigating the rough idle that was not solved by a valve adjustment and the rough/noisy shifting at speeds up to 30 mph. Records show the transmission was overhauled in Jan. 1999 and that there was cause for readjustment in April 1999. Always something. . . . . These can hopefully wait until 2004, and that I can increase my diesel Benz knowledge exponentially by then. happy motoring, R '82 300CD -- 222,900 miles Sam Williams <1sam-at-io.com> wrote: R, Fabric covered hoses are generally superior to rubber/plastic hoses but that application would not require such high quality. MB did use fabric covered overflow hoses before the 70s but it's over-kill. He probably didn't have any inexpensive plastic hose, used higher quality line that happened to be handy. Maybe he is a purist, wants to return to old 'glory days' of Mereceds, one hose at a time. You might lose points in concours judging (if you plan to show the car) but will probably will never need to replace the overflow line again. I don't know much about turbo-chargers. I know they use oil in low friction bearings and many of them do leak. If he said it was slight and didn't insist you fix it then is a good sign. I would see what other list members say and discuss it with him next time you go in. Glad you no longer must worry about radiator, etc. Sam _____ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1216 **********************************