From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Wed Sep 17 09:26:52 2003 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, September 17 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1220 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] Hmmmm [db] offtopic, but diesel related Re: [db] offtopic, but diesel related Re: [db] offtopic, but diesel related Re: [db] offtopic, but diesel related Re: [db] offtopic, but diesel related Re: [db] offtopic, but diesel related Re: [db] Hmmmm RE: [db] offtopic, but diesel related RE: [db] offtopic, but diesel related Re: [db] Hmmmm RE: [db] offtopic, but diesel related RE: [db] offtopic, but diesel related Re: [db] offtopic, but diesel related RE: [db] offtopic, but diesel related Re: [offtopic] Re: [db] Hmmmm RE: [db] offtopic, but diesel related RE: [db] offtopic, but diesel related Re: [db] offtopic, but diesel related Re: [offtopic] Re: [db] Hmmmm Re: [db] offtopic, but diesel related Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:41:37 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: [db] Hmmmm http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2558496486&category=42908 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:49:40 -0400 From: "Aimino, Michael" Subject: [db] offtopic, but diesel related My '87 Suburban, 6.2l diesel, is overheating. Coolant is full, radiator is hot, both top and bottom rad hoses are hot, no leaks, yet temp gauge was pegged to max. Water pump? Thermostat? Defective temp gauge? Given the amount of automotive knowledge on this list, I thought I'd get some opinions here before I start tearing into it. Mike Aimino Technical Writer II FreeMarkets, Inc. 210 Sixth Avenue Pittsburgh, PA 15222 (412) 297-7386 A.M.D.G. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:53:04 -0500 From: "Vernon Tuck" Subject: Re: [db] offtopic, but diesel related My vote is a blown head gasket. Check for vapor in the exhaust. Check for oil in the coolant. Check for coolant in the oil. If the latter the oil will be milky. Rotsaruck. VTuck ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:12:03 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] offtopic, but diesel related Eek, Lets hope its not that. But I would not rule it out. When's the last time you had a water pump put on it? I would check for the coolant in the oil first but if you don't find any I would start going over the different possible issues. I have had two bad water pumps on cars I have owned. And one bad thermostat on my Mercedes. Robert Chase Vernon Tuck wrote: > My vote is a blown head gasket. Check for vapor in the exhaust. Check for > oil in the coolant. Check for coolant in the oil. If the latter the oil > will be milky. > > Rotsaruck. > VTuck ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:03:30 -0400 From: Mike Frank Subject: Re: [db] offtopic, but diesel related No experience with Suburbans, but here are a few guidelines: 1) If it overheats at idle, the problem is probably airflow...electric fan or fan clutch, whatever it has. 2) If it overheats at speed, the problem is probably the water pump. 3) If it overheats in all conditions, thermostat or clogged radiator. Also check for trapped air...some systems require bleeding. And yes, temperature gauges are often flaky. Verify with a good thermometer, Raytek, or thermocouple. Mike Frank At 09:49 AM 9/17/2003 -0400, Aimino, Michael wrote: >My '87 Suburban, 6.2l diesel, is overheating. Coolant is full, radiator is >hot, both top and bottom rad hoses are hot, no leaks, yet temp gauge was >pegged to max. Water pump? Thermostat? Defective temp gauge? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:15:54 -0500 From: "Vernon Tuck" Subject: Re: [db] offtopic, but diesel related The thing is I've never seen a water pump fail without leaking. I thought he said the system was watertight. If so, I have a hard time conjuring up a scenario where it could be a water pump failure. On the other hand, a stuck thermostat could have been what provoked overheating leading to a blown head gasket. If the temperature pegged he's unlikely to have a minor problem in my opinion. I consider a stuck thermostat to be a minor problem. VT ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:33:36 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: [db] offtopic, but diesel related the fact that both hoses are "hot", rad is hot and you don't see seem rolling out of a gasket or tailpipe is a good indication it's probably a temp gauge... is it running ok? hoses not swollen? replace the sending unit... while you're in there check to make sure the coolant looks normal, no oil or bubbles... the 6.2L runs warm... I had an '83. It's not a stuck tstat or one hose would be cool... if it's been a while, replace it. you're probably ok if it's running ok... john At 06:49 AM 9/17/2003, Aimino, Michael wrote: >My '87 Suburban, 6.2l diesel, is overheating. Coolant is full, radiator is >hot, both top and bottom rad hoses are hot, no leaks, yet temp gauge was >pegged to max. Water pump? Thermostat? Defective temp gauge? > >Given the amount of automotive knowledge on this list, I thought I'd get some >opinions here before I start tearing into it. > >Mike Aimino >Technical Writer II >FreeMarkets, Inc. >210 Sixth Avenue >Pittsburgh, PA 15222 >(412) 297-7386 > >A.M.D.G. - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:35:01 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: [db] Hmmmm At 06:41 AM 9/17/2003, Robert Chase wrote: >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2558496486&category=42908 the Omega man drools on his keyboard and sends links to his few remaining fellow Dieselites... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:21:05 -0400 From: "Aimino, Michael" Subject: RE: [db] offtopic, but diesel related Ohhh. Good point. Didn't think of that. I'll check that when I get home. Thanks! - -----Original Message----- From: Vernon Tuck [mailto:vtuck-at-tucklings.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 9:53 AM To: Aimino, Michael; Diesel Benz List (E-mail) Subject: Re: [db] offtopic, but diesel related My vote is a blown head gasket. Check for vapor in the exhaust. Check for oil in the coolant. Check for coolant in the oil. If the latter the oil will be milky. Rotsaruck. VTuck ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:51:57 -0400 From: "Aimino, Michael" Subject: RE: [db] offtopic, but diesel related The truck is new to me as of May. Don't know it's service history. In my limited experience, the water pump leaks or makes an awful noise when it fails. Don't have either of those symptoms, but until I get more data I'm not ruling it out either. Thanks! - -----Original Message----- From: Robert Chase [mailto:beostar-at-sdf.lonestar.org] Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 10:12 AM To: Vernon Tuck Cc: Aimino, Michael; Diesel Benz List (E-mail) Subject: Re: [db] offtopic, but diesel related Eek, Lets hope its not that. But I would not rule it out. When's the last time you had a water pump put on it? I would check for the coolant in the oil first but if you don't find any I would start going over the different possible issues. I have had two bad water pumps on cars I have owned. And one bad thermostat on my Mercedes. Robert Chase Vernon Tuck wrote: > My vote is a blown head gasket. Check for vapor in the exhaust. Check for > oil in the coolant. Check for coolant in the oil. If the latter the oil > will be milky. > > Rotsaruck. > VTuck ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:55:03 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] Hmmmm Heh heh, You know it would be really nice to get that sucker running bio diesel and start growing soy beans in my back yard :) Robert Chase john wrote: > At 06:41 AM 9/17/2003, Robert Chase wrote: > >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2558496486&category=42908 >> > > > the Omega man drools on his keyboard and sends links to > his few remaining fellow Dieselites... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:54:47 -0400 From: "Aimino, Michael" Subject: RE: [db] offtopic, but diesel related #3 - overheats in all conditions. Not familiar with using an external thermometer - do I put it in the radiator fluid? - -----Original Message----- From: Mike Frank [mailto:mfrank-at-westnet.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 10:04 AM To: Aimino, Michael; Diesel Benz List (E-mail) Subject: Re: [db] offtopic, but diesel related No experience with Suburbans, but here are a few guidelines: 1) If it overheats at idle, the problem is probably airflow...electric fan or fan clutch, whatever it has. 2) If it overheats at speed, the problem is probably the water pump. 3) If it overheats in all conditions, thermostat or clogged radiator. Also check for trapped air...some systems require bleeding. And yes, temperature gauges are often flaky. Verify with a good thermometer, Raytek, or thermocouple. Mike Frank At 09:49 AM 9/17/2003 -0400, Aimino, Michael wrote: >My '87 Suburban, 6.2l diesel, is overheating. Coolant is full, radiator is >hot, both top and bottom rad hoses are hot, no leaks, yet temp gauge was >pegged to max. Water pump? Thermostat? Defective temp gauge? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:57:49 -0400 From: "Aimino, Michael" Subject: RE: [db] offtopic, but diesel related Seems to be running normally, but it did smell kind of hot. Hoses seem OK, not swollen, but due to be replaced soon - they're a bit soft. - -----Original Message----- From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 10:34 AM To: Aimino, Michael; Diesel Benz List (E-mail) Subject: Re: [db] offtopic, but diesel related the fact that both hoses are "hot", rad is hot and you don't see seem rolling out of a gasket or tailpipe is a good indication it's probably a temp gauge... is it running ok? hoses not swollen? replace the sending unit... while you're in there check to make sure the coolant looks normal, no oil or bubbles... the 6.2L runs warm... I had an '83. It's not a stuck tstat or one hose would be cool... if it's been a while, replace it. you're probably ok if it's running ok... john At 06:49 AM 9/17/2003, Aimino, Michael wrote: >My '87 Suburban, 6.2l diesel, is overheating. Coolant is full, radiator is >hot, both top and bottom rad hoses are hot, no leaks, yet temp gauge was >pegged to max. Water pump? Thermostat? Defective temp gauge? > >Given the amount of automotive knowledge on this list, I thought I'd get some >opinions here before I start tearing into it. > >Mike Aimino >Technical Writer II >FreeMarkets, Inc. >210 Sixth Avenue >Pittsburgh, PA 15222 >(412) 297-7386 > >A.M.D.G. - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:15:35 -0400 From: Mike Frank Subject: Re: [db] offtopic, but diesel related One other thought. I've seen problems where the lower radiator hose goes soft. It will look fine, but will collapse when the water pump gets cranking. Mike Frank ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:25:47 -0400 From: Mike Frank Subject: RE: [db] offtopic, but diesel related Several options. One is to place a thermometer or thermocouple on the thermostat housing. You need something that can make good mechanical contact with the part. I carry self adhesive plastic thermometers for this purpose, if you can't find anything appropriate locally. A Raytek is an infrared thermometer: just point it, pull the trigger, and read the temperature. They sell for about $90. I'd start by checking the condition of the coolant, use a hygrometer or test strip. If there's nothing unusual, then replace the thermostat. While the system is drained, look down into the radiator to see the condition of the tubes...if they are clogged, you're going to have to replace the radiator. Mike Frank At 10:54 AM 9/17/2003 -0400, Aimino, Michael wrote: >#3 - overheats in all conditions. > >Not familiar with using an external thermometer - do I put it in the >radiator fluid? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:50:36 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [offtopic] Re: [db] Hmmmm The problem with that I think would be zoning...... Running a V12 generator in the back yard might be a little annoying to my neighbors since I live in a subdivision...... Gregory S. Youngblood wrote: > On Wed, 17 Sep 2003, Robert Chase wrote: > > >>You know it would be really nice to get that sucker running bio diesel >>and start growing soy beans in my back yard :) > > > And if you were careful about it, you could sell the excess and get paid > to do it. :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:00:05 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: [db] offtopic, but diesel related On Wed, 17 Sep 2003, Aimino, Michael wrote: >-->Seems to be running normally, but it did smell kind of hot. >--> >-->Hoses seem OK, not swollen, but due to be replaced soon - they're a bit soft. if you haven't replaced the tstat, recommend doing that with the temp gauge sending unit... check the fan clutch too... feel the water pump, could have lost an impeller... might be a good idea to flush the system and replace the pump, tstat and sending unit... if you can borrow a leakdown tester first that'll help diagnose the problem... check with a napa, they'll know what to look for... if you can pressurize the system via the rad cap it'll point out any leaks... john >--> >-->-----Original Message----- >-->From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] >-->Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 10:34 AM >-->To: Aimino, Michael; Diesel Benz List (E-mail) >-->Subject: Re: [db] offtopic, but diesel related >--> >--> >--> >-->the fact that both hoses are "hot", rad is hot and you don't >-->see seem rolling out of a gasket or tailpipe is a good indication >-->it's probably a temp gauge... is it running ok? >--> >-->hoses not swollen? >--> >-->replace the sending unit... while you're in there check >-->to make sure the coolant looks normal, no oil or bubbles... >--> >-->the 6.2L runs warm... I had an '83. It's not a stuck tstat >-->or one hose would be cool... if it's been a while, replace it. >--> >-->you're probably ok if it's running ok... >--> >-->john >--> >-->At 06:49 AM 9/17/2003, Aimino, Michael wrote: >-->>My '87 Suburban, 6.2l diesel, is overheating. Coolant is full, radiator is >-->>hot, both top and bottom rad hoses are hot, no leaks, yet temp gauge was >-->>pegged to max. Water pump? Thermostat? Defective temp gauge? >-->> >-->>Given the amount of automotive knowledge on this list, I thought I'd get some >-->>opinions here before I start tearing into it. >-->> >-->>Mike Aimino >-->>Technical Writer II >-->>FreeMarkets, Inc. >-->>210 Sixth Avenue >-->>Pittsburgh, PA 15222 >-->>(412) 297-7386 >-->> >-->>A.M.D.G. >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------ >--> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >--> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >--> Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >-->------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. Suggestions: email in plain text w/o attachments, and trust Jesus. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The revolt is underway, the penguin is coming... I can hear the slap of his little feet... and the squishing of worms and sco lawyers under them... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:53:56 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: [db] offtopic, but diesel related check for bubbles in the water, "smoke - white" in the exhaust and swelling hoses... the system will puff up like a blow fish... :) john On Wed, 17 Sep 2003, Aimino, Michael wrote: >-->Ohhh. Good point. Didn't think of that. I'll check that when I get home. >-->Thanks! >--> >-->-----Original Message----- >-->From: Vernon Tuck [mailto:vtuck-at-tucklings.com] >-->Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 9:53 AM >-->To: Aimino, Michael; Diesel Benz List (E-mail) >-->Subject: Re: [db] offtopic, but diesel related >--> >--> >-->My vote is a blown head gasket. Check for vapor in the exhaust. Check for >-->oil in the coolant. Check for coolant in the oil. If the latter the oil >-->will be milky. >--> >-->Rotsaruck. >-->VTuck >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. Suggestions: email in plain text w/o attachments, and trust Jesus. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The revolt is underway, the penguin is coming... I can hear the slap of his little feet... and the squishing of worms and sco lawyers under them... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:08:54 -0700 From: Rick Orr Subject: Re: [db] offtopic, but diesel related > I've never seen a water pump fail without leaking I've seen impellers come loose [no noise strangely enough]& impellers with impellers blades rusted off ... rick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 12:08:34 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [offtopic] Re: [db] Hmmmm Actually no home owners association just a bunch of rabid neighbors and an overactive County Government. My father was arrested for not mowing the lawn here once (yes handcuffed and put in the back of a police car arrested). As a "backup" generator it would be great. But if I were making a dime on it someone would have some complaints. Robert Chase Gregory S. Youngblood wrote: > On Wed, 17 Sep 2003, Robert Chase wrote: > > >>The problem with that I think would be zoning...... Running a V12 >>generator in the back yard might be a little annoying to my neighbors >>since I live in a subdivision...... > > > That's the problem with home owner's associations -- they never let you do > anything. ;) > > You could always tell them, "at least it is not a turbine generator, that > would be even louder." > > Or, you could give them free juice too. ;) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:13:49 -0700 From: Rick Orr Subject: Re: [db] offtopic, but diesel related A simple oven thermometer will get you in the ball park. Overheating can also be caused by an excessive amount of gunk, garbage or whatever inside the block clogging cooling passages ... BTDT. rick ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1220 **********************************