From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Mon Sep 29 21:52:04 2003 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, September 30 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1233 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] 6.9's and stuff RE: [db] 6.9's and stuff [db] tires [db] never seen one of these before RE: [db] 6.9's and stuff Re: [db] tires Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:12:15 -0700 (PDT) From: hue wong Subject: Re: [db] 6.9's and stuff there is nothing more expensive than an inexpensive mercedes benz. - --------- hahahahahah I wish someone would have told me that about 10 years ago before I got bit by the bug!!!! paid 1800.00 for my 280sel and have pumped almost 1k a year into it to keep it running and in top form... Here's hoping I have better luck with the 300td! ;-) - --- Kevin Pekarek wrote: > On Mon, Sep 29, 2003 at 09:39:49PM -0400, Robert > Chase wrote: > > I located this 6.9 locally in the paper and I am > going to go test drive > > it within the next couple of days. Is there > anything I should look at > > on the car? I know that the hydropnumatic > suspensions can be > > problematic so Ill be looking at every aspect of > the suspension while I > > am there. It has about 150k miles on it which for > the year of the car > > is not horrible. How long do the m-100 engines > last before they have to > > be rebuilt? > > > > Whats the consensus on the 6.9 badges. The car is > missing its 450SEL > > badges and just has the single 6.9 badge on the > rear trunk deck lid. I > > have considered removing the 6.9 to thwart theft > and so Im the only > > person that knows about the demonic powers of evil > under the hood. But > > then again I dont usually like to "change" cars > from their original form. > > From memory (and this may be incomplete since it's > been a while), this > is what I looked at when looking at 6.9s: > - drive by car a couple of times before calling > owner, note how much sag > there is in the suspension > - when looking at the car, check the quality and > level of oil. these cars > held somewhere around 12 quarts of oil (dry > sump), and the rebuild will > be more expensive than a GMC 351 v6 by orders > of magnitude. > - transmission fluid should show evidence of > recent service > - peek underneath with a flashlight looking for > fluids. leaky rear end > could be expensive (6.9 only ratio), leaky > engine or transmission could > also be expensive. leaking around the > suspension is BAD. > - car may change height after starting, meaning > the suspension had to > "pump up". This could signal a leaky > suspension. > - there is a lever in the center of the dash > which locks the suspension in > high clearance mode (for snow and such), and a > drive position where the > suspension is allowed to do as it wants... > IIRC, the high switch should > cause the car to raise enough that you'd > notice. (I'm kinda fuzzy on this > one) > - check for oil in the radiator. you do NOT want > to rebuild this engine. > - on the test drive, check that the car: > - stops on a dime and gives you nine cents > change (it really should, > the brakes on this monster are amazing) > - accelerates to redline smoothly. An easy > way to test the revs on the > engine without getting too many speeding > tickets is to (after engine > is warm), take it up to 5000 RPM in first > gear (should be somewhere > around 45-50 mph if I remember right). The > rev it up test will rule > - drives around smoothly. do NOT spend less > than 20 minutes driving > the car, make sure it comes up to speed, > cruises down the freeway > effortlessly, catches second on the > freeway when you punch it, etc. > - while driving the car, remember that the 6.9 > fuel distributor costs about > $1800, and that high pressure Bosch fuel > injection is a royal pain in the > ARSE to deal with when it's not working right. > "Oh, it just needs plugs, > wires, cap and a rotor" will run you about $150 > for the cap alone, I don't > even want to think about the m100 specific plug > wires (unless you want to > custom build some from moroso wire stock for a > 455 buick ). > > IIRC, last I checked, parts, machining, and someone > who actually knew how to > put the bloody engine together was over $6000, and I > want to say it was even > over $7000. You can sure get a nice running one for > that. Check Hemmings. > > To be honest, I think the least of your worries is > the suspension, if you > HAD to go through it and can do the work yourself > (and there's a couple of > citroen owners on this list you could probably talk > into some pointers as it is > the same suspension setup). If you have to pay > someone to do it, it's gonna > cost you a ton of money. Don't worry, the engine > rebuild will be far more > expensive. I think the citroen guys were saying they > could rebuild the > suspension in their citroens (supplying their own > labor) for under $800. I'll > let them correct me if I am wrong. (Note, the air > suspension setup on the 6.3 > is INCREDIBLY expensive to repair, probably > compounded by the age of the 6.3s) > > All of the 6.9s I've ever seen lacked the 450SEL > badge, and just had an > innocuous looking 6.9 badge on the trunk. Myself, I > would yank the badge to > detract attention from it - it will look like every > other 450SEL on the road > to unsuspecting rice rockets. :) > > Good luck, and remember the list motto - there is > nothing more expensive than > an inexpensive mercedes benz. > > K > > -- > Kevin Pekarek > Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and > Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) > 85 190D (601, 5spd) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:19:50 -0700 From: "Jeremy Bowne" Subject: RE: [db] 6.9's and stuff I'd rather pump 1k/year into a decent old Mercedes, than 5k a year into some new plastic car. Jeremy - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of hue wong Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 8:12 PM To: Kevin Pekarek; Robert Chase Cc: Diesel Benz Subject: Re: [db] 6.9's and stuff there is nothing more expensive than an inexpensive mercedes benz. - --------- hahahahahah I wish someone would have told me that about 10 years ago before I got bit by the bug!!!! paid 1800.00 for my 280sel and have pumped almost 1k a year into it to keep it running and in top form... Here's hoping I have better luck with the 300td! ;-) - --- Kevin Pekarek wrote: > On Mon, Sep 29, 2003 at 09:39:49PM -0400, Robert > Chase wrote: > > I located this 6.9 locally in the paper and I am > going to go test drive > > it within the next couple of days. Is there > anything I should look at > > on the car? I know that the hydropnumatic > suspensions can be > > problematic so Ill be looking at every aspect of > the suspension while I > > am there. It has about 150k miles on it which for > the year of the car > > is not horrible. How long do the m-100 engines > last before they have to > > be rebuilt? > > > > Whats the consensus on the 6.9 badges. The car is > missing its 450SEL > > badges and just has the single 6.9 badge on the > rear trunk deck lid. I > > have considered removing the 6.9 to thwart theft > and so Im the only > > person that knows about the demonic powers of evil > under the hood. But > > then again I dont usually like to "change" cars > from their original form. > > From memory (and this may be incomplete since it's > been a while), this > is what I looked at when looking at 6.9s: > - drive by car a couple of times before calling > owner, note how much sag > there is in the suspension > - when looking at the car, check the quality and > level of oil. these cars > held somewhere around 12 quarts of oil (dry > sump), and the rebuild will > be more expensive than a GMC 351 v6 by orders > of magnitude. > - transmission fluid should show evidence of > recent service > - peek underneath with a flashlight looking for > fluids. leaky rear end > could be expensive (6.9 only ratio), leaky > engine or transmission could > also be expensive. leaking around the > suspension is BAD. > - car may change height after starting, meaning > the suspension had to > "pump up". This could signal a leaky > suspension. > - there is a lever in the center of the dash > which locks the suspension in > high clearance mode (for snow and such), and a > drive position where the > suspension is allowed to do as it wants... > IIRC, the high switch should > cause the car to raise enough that you'd > notice. (I'm kinda fuzzy on this > one) > - check for oil in the radiator. you do NOT want > to rebuild this engine. > - on the test drive, check that the car: > - stops on a dime and gives you nine cents > change (it really should, > the brakes on this monster are amazing) > - accelerates to redline smoothly. An easy > way to test the revs on the > engine without getting too many speeding > tickets is to (after engine > is warm), take it up to 5000 RPM in first > gear (should be somewhere > around 45-50 mph if I remember right). The > rev it up test will rule > - drives around smoothly. do NOT spend less > than 20 minutes driving > the car, make sure it comes up to speed, > cruises down the freeway > effortlessly, catches second on the > freeway when you punch it, etc. > - while driving the car, remember that the 6.9 > fuel distributor costs about > $1800, and that high pressure Bosch fuel > injection is a royal pain in the > ARSE to deal with when it's not working right. > "Oh, it just needs plugs, > wires, cap and a rotor" will run you about $150 > for the cap alone, I don't > even want to think about the m100 specific plug > wires (unless you want to > custom build some from moroso wire stock for a > 455 buick ). > > IIRC, last I checked, parts, machining, and someone > who actually knew how to > put the bloody engine together was over $6000, and I > want to say it was even > over $7000. You can sure get a nice running one for > that. Check Hemmings. > > To be honest, I think the least of your worries is > the suspension, if you > HAD to go through it and can do the work yourself > (and there's a couple of > citroen owners on this list you could probably talk > into some pointers as it is > the same suspension setup). If you have to pay > someone to do it, it's gonna > cost you a ton of money. Don't worry, the engine > rebuild will be far more > expensive. I think the citroen guys were saying they > could rebuild the > suspension in their citroens (supplying their own > labor) for under $800. I'll > let them correct me if I am wrong. (Note, the air > suspension setup on the 6.3 > is INCREDIBLY expensive to repair, probably > compounded by the age of the 6.3s) > > All of the 6.9s I've ever seen lacked the 450SEL > badge, and just had an > innocuous looking 6.9 badge on the trunk. Myself, I > would yank the badge to > detract attention from it - it will look like every > other 450SEL on the road > to unsuspecting rice rockets. :) > > Good luck, and remember the list motto - there is > nothing more expensive than > an inexpensive mercedes benz. > > K > > -- > Kevin Pekarek > Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and > Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) > 85 190D (601, 5spd) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:30:39 -0400 From: "Wylie Bean" Subject: [db] tires Fellas, I just put 4 tires on the 300D about 2 weeks ago, and while it's not been miserably rainy since then here in central NC, nor has it been cold, I have to say that for $35 bux a tire mounted and balanced, I'm sold. The tires are Wynstar Phaser 23's, and according to the guy they're one of Michelin's off brands. I couldn't care less at this point, because they are quiet, they don't wobble like weebles, and have a pretty decent look to them as well. 195-70-14 (stock size) can be had from a lot of your local discount tire stores, although i doubt many of the major chain stores have them. Wylie Bean TheRingmeister-at-triad.rr.com Greensboro NC 90 cq 20v 99.5 A4 Avant q (with new Dunlop SP Sport FM901's) 82 300D 4spd 5cyl N/A ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:35:57 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: [db] never seen one of these before http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6338&item=2435174385 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:44:01 -0500 From: "Sam Williams" <1sam-at-io.com> Subject: RE: [db] 6.9's and stuff Kevin, As 'a Citroen guy' I won't dispute rebuild of Citroen suspension cost--though that $800 seems a bit low if you mean whole system. I've spent $60 in a decade--but the car's not even 35 years old and hydropneumatic suspensions are actually pretty reliable. On a 6.9, the accumulators cost about $100 ea (x4). Figure about $50 for fluid. That's about all you'll ever need unless you put the wrong fluid in there. If you ever have to replace a pump or the struts, it would get expensive. Sam - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Kevin Pekarek Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 10:02 PM To: Robert Chase Cc: Diesel Benz Subject: Re: [db] 6.9's and stuff On Mon, Sep 29, 2003 at 09:39:49PM -0400, Robert Chase wrote: > I located this 6.9 locally in the paper and I am going to go test drive > it within the next couple of days. Is there anything I should look at > on the car? I know that the hydropnumatic suspensions can be > problematic so Ill be looking at every aspect of the suspension while I > am there. It has about 150k miles on it which for the year of the car > is not horrible. How long do the m-100 engines last before they have to > be rebuilt? > > Whats the consensus on the 6.9 badges. The car is missing its 450SEL > badges and just has the single 6.9 badge on the rear trunk deck lid. I > have considered removing the 6.9 to thwart theft and so Im the only > person that knows about the demonic powers of evil under the hood. But > then again I dont usually like to "change" cars from their original form. >From memory (and this may be incomplete since it's been a while), this is what I looked at when looking at 6.9s: - drive by car a couple of times before calling owner, note how much sag there is in the suspension - when looking at the car, check the quality and level of oil. these cars held somewhere around 12 quarts of oil (dry sump), and the rebuild will be more expensive than a GMC 351 v6 by orders of magnitude. - transmission fluid should show evidence of recent service - peek underneath with a flashlight looking for fluids. leaky rear end could be expensive (6.9 only ratio), leaky engine or transmission could also be expensive. leaking around the suspension is BAD. - car may change height after starting, meaning the suspension had to "pump up". This could signal a leaky suspension. - there is a lever in the center of the dash which locks the suspension in high clearance mode (for snow and such), and a drive position where the suspension is allowed to do as it wants... IIRC, the high switch should cause the car to raise enough that you'd notice. (I'm kinda fuzzy on this one) - check for oil in the radiator. you do NOT want to rebuild this engine. - on the test drive, check that the car: - stops on a dime and gives you nine cents change (it really should, the brakes on this monster are amazing) - accelerates to redline smoothly. An easy way to test the revs on the engine without getting too many speeding tickets is to (after engine is warm), take it up to 5000 RPM in first gear (should be somewhere around 45-50 mph if I remember right). The rev it up test will rule - drives around smoothly. do NOT spend less than 20 minutes driving the car, make sure it comes up to speed, cruises down the freeway effortlessly, catches second on the freeway when you punch it, etc. - while driving the car, remember that the 6.9 fuel distributor costs about $1800, and that high pressure Bosch fuel injection is a royal pain in the ARSE to deal with when it's not working right. "Oh, it just needs plugs, wires, cap and a rotor" will run you about $150 for the cap alone, I don't even want to think about the m100 specific plug wires (unless you want to custom build some from moroso wire stock for a 455 buick ). IIRC, last I checked, parts, machining, and someone who actually knew how to put the bloody engine together was over $6000, and I want to say it was even over $7000. You can sure get a nice running one for that. Check Hemmings. To be honest, I think the least of your worries is the suspension, if you HAD to go through it and can do the work yourself (and there's a couple of citroen owners on this list you could probably talk into some pointers as it is the same suspension setup). If you have to pay someone to do it, it's gonna cost you a ton of money. Don't worry, the engine rebuild will be far more expensive. I think the citroen guys were saying they could rebuild the suspension in their citroens (supplying their own labor) for under $800. I'll let them correct me if I am wrong. (Note, the air suspension setup on the 6.3 is INCREDIBLY expensive to repair, probably compounded by the age of the 6.3s) All of the 6.9s I've ever seen lacked the 450SEL badge, and just had an innocuous looking 6.9 badge on the trunk. Myself, I would yank the badge to detract attention from it - it will look like every other 450SEL on the road to unsuspecting rice rockets. :) Good luck, and remember the list motto - there is nothing more expensive than an inexpensive mercedes benz. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:40:35 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: [db] tires how far is Greensboro from Winston-Salem? I'm flying into WS on the 12th for a group meeting, then flying back home on Friday the 17th... the BFG Traction T/A's are around $59 a tire, the guy at Discount claims to have taken 'em out on a track and compared them to the dunlop sp a2's and yokos... he thinks they're going to dominate the market, they're coming out Oct 1st. I've had good luck with BFG T/A series tires... very good luck. Anyway, shadowfax will have to wait on this side of the continent, not sure what kind of rental car I'll end up with over there... :) one of the days we're going to just goof off, possibly do a go cart thing... john At 08:30 PM 9/29/2003, Wylie Bean wrote: >Fellas, >I just put 4 tires on the 300D about 2 weeks ago, and while it's not been >miserably rainy since then here in central NC, nor has it been cold, I have >to say that for $35 bux a tire mounted and balanced, I'm sold. The tires >are Wynstar Phaser 23's, and according to the guy they're one of Michelin's >off brands. I couldn't care less at this point, because they are quiet, >they don't wobble like weebles, and have a pretty decent look to them as >well. 195-70-14 (stock size) can be had from a lot of your local discount >tire stores, although i doubt many of the major chain stores have them. > >Wylie Bean >TheRingmeister-at-triad.rr.com >Greensboro NC >90 cq 20v >99.5 A4 Avant q (with new Dunlop SP Sport FM901's) >82 300D 4spd 5cyl N/A - ----------------------------- Oh well, I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess -Red Green http://www.redgreen.com/ - ------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1233 **********************************