From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Tue Sep 30 10:32:31 2003 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, September 30 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1234 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] Another 6.9! RE: [db] 6.9's and stuff RE: [db] 6.9's and stuff [db] RE: diesel-benz-digest V1 #1233 [db] replacing CV boots on a 300td RE: [db] 6.9's and stuff Re: [db] replacing CV boots on a 300td RE: [db] replacing CV boots on a 300td Re: [db] replacing CV boots on a 300td Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 02:04:20 -0500 From: "Richard Arnold" Subject: [db] Another 6.9! http://www.carclassic.com/html/CY61.htm Hey Robert! Who needs the '70's model? $1.5MM gets you a new 6.9 liter (6898cc), 650 HP VEE TWELVE. You could dust off most anything, smiling. Have Fun, RAA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 06:21:46 -0700 From: Greg Fiorentino Subject: RE: [db] 6.9's and stuff At 08:44 PM 9/29/03 , Sam Williams wrote: >As 'a Citroen guy' I won't dispute rebuild of Citroen suspension >cost--though that $800 seems a bit low if you mean whole system. >I've spent $60 in a decade--but the car's not even 35 years old >and hydropneumatic suspensions are actually pretty reliable. > >On a 6.9, the accumulators cost about $100 ea (x4). Figure about >$50 for fluid. That's about all you'll ever need unless you put >the wrong fluid in there. If you ever have to replace a pump or >the struts, it would get expensive. As the owner of a '79 300TD I am concerned about maintenance on these. Does the fluid require periodic change? Any other maintenance items I need to be aware of? I love the ride it gives, and love that the back can be loaded up without any perceptible change in the handling or feel. Greg Greg Fiorentino Vancouver USA gfior-at-dslnorthwest.net '84 300D Turbo '79 300TD '85 F-350 6.9 crew cab ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:15:53 -0500 From: "Sam Williams" <1sam-at-io.com> Subject: RE: [db] 6.9's and stuff Greg, I haven't had a wagon yet so don't know the details of your system. On a Citroen, you clean the filter periodically and top off the fluid. It's very like power steering-minimal maintenance required. When the ride gets harsh, replace the accumulators; over time (10-15 yrs) the nitrogen seeps through the diaphragm and, with little gas to compress, they no longer function as springs. Best to not wait until ride is hard and bouncy as that stresses the suspension. The important thing is to use the proper fluid. That's probably the source of the reputation for unreliability. MB dealers sell the proper stuff. It's expensive but you shouldn't need much over the life of the car. There are other sources but risks are great if you guess wrong. The seals throughout the system can fail in incorrect fluid and make an expensive mess. Sam - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Greg Fiorentino Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 8:22 AM To: Sam Williams; 'Kevin Pekarek'; 'Robert Chase' Cc: 'Diesel Benz' Subject: RE: [db] 6.9's and stuff At 08:44 PM 9/29/03 , Sam Williams wrote: >As 'a Citroen guy' I won't dispute rebuild of Citroen suspension >cost--though that $800 seems a bit low if you mean whole system. >I've spent $60 in a decade--but the car's not even 35 years old >and hydropneumatic suspensions are actually pretty reliable. > >On a 6.9, the accumulators cost about $100 ea (x4). Figure about >$50 for fluid. That's about all you'll ever need unless you put >the wrong fluid in there. If you ever have to replace a pump or >the struts, it would get expensive. As the owner of a '79 300TD I am concerned about maintenance on these. Does the fluid require periodic change? Any other maintenance items I need to be aware of? I love the ride it gives, and love that the back can be loaded up without any perceptible change in the handling or feel. Greg Greg Fiorentino Vancouver USA gfior-at-dslnorthwest.net '84 300D Turbo '79 300TD '85 F-350 6.9 crew cab ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:21:03 -0500 From: "Black, Waylon" Subject: [db] RE: diesel-benz-digest V1 #1233 That only applies to gas models. LOL Waylon Dallas, Texas Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:12:15 -0700 (PDT) From: hue wong Subject: Re: [db] 6.9's and stuff there is nothing more expensive than an inexpensive mercedes benz. - - --------- hahahahahah I wish someone would have told me that about 10 years ago before I got bit by the bug!!!! paid 1800.00 for my 280sel and have pumped almost 1k a year into it to keep it running and in top form... Here's hoping I have better luck with the 300td! ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:27:42 -0700 (PDT) From: hue wong Subject: [db] replacing CV boots on a 300td So, just discovered my rear CV boots are shot on my new 300td (so far the biggest problem I have discovered) So I take it in to my new shop (If anyone is the seattle area needs a good shop, I think I finally found one) and apperently I have one of the "rare" 300td that have a different kind of transaxle that the shop book rates as a nine hour job instead of the usual 1.5 hour job to replace these boots. So my question is: do they make and are they any good, the wrap around, bolt on CV rubber boot for these cars? I usta get them for my VW bug and they worked ok, but all those had to do was keep dirt out, these CV boots on the Merc seems to keep oil in. So I'm dubious about this aproach, but if it saves me 500.00 then I'm all for it!!! Anyone have any experiences along these lines? Thanx in advance. - -hue- __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:32:39 -0700 (PDT) From: hue wong Subject: RE: [db] 6.9's and stuff Ya I hear that! I had a newer plastic car and the thing just fell apart. the only reason parts are failing on my /71 280 is because it has almost 300k and somewhere along the line (I think I'm the fourth owner) someone did not maintain it properly. I got 112k out of my '99 Dawoo commuter egg before it gave out (and I still owed 2k on it!!!!) I'll always drive a second hand german auto from now on... I've learned my lesson.... - --- Jeremy Bowne wrote: > I'd rather pump 1k/year into a decent old Mercedes, > than 5k a year into > some new plastic car. > > Jeremy > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] > On Behalf Of hue wong > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 8:12 PM > To: Kevin Pekarek; Robert Chase > Cc: Diesel Benz > Subject: Re: [db] 6.9's and stuff > > there is nothing more > expensive than > an inexpensive mercedes benz. > --------- > > hahahahahah I wish someone would have told me that > about 10 years ago before I got bit by the bug!!!! > paid 1800.00 for my 280sel and have pumped almost 1k > a > year into it to keep it running and in top form... > > Here's hoping I have better luck with the 300td! ;-) > > > --- Kevin Pekarek wrote: > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2003 at 09:39:49PM -0400, Robert > > Chase wrote: > > > I located this 6.9 locally in the paper and I am > > going to go test drive > > > it within the next couple of days. Is there > > anything I should look at > > > on the car? I know that the hydropnumatic > > suspensions can be > > > problematic so Ill be looking at every aspect of > > the suspension while I > > > am there. It has about 150k miles on it which > for > > the year of the car > > > is not horrible. How long do the m-100 engines > > last before they have to > > > be rebuilt? > > > > > > Whats the consensus on the 6.9 badges. The car > is > > missing its 450SEL > > > badges and just has the single 6.9 badge on the > > rear trunk deck lid. I > > > have considered removing the 6.9 to thwart theft > > and so Im the only > > > person that knows about the demonic powers of > evil > > under the hood. But > > > then again I dont usually like to "change" cars > > from their original form. > > > > From memory (and this may be incomplete since it's > > been a while), this > > is what I looked at when looking at 6.9s: > > - drive by car a couple of times before calling > > owner, note how much sag > > there is in the suspension > > - when looking at the car, check the quality > and > > level of oil. these cars > > held somewhere around 12 quarts of oil (dry > > sump), and the rebuild will > > be more expensive than a GMC 351 v6 by orders > > of magnitude. > > - transmission fluid should show evidence of > > recent service > > - peek underneath with a flashlight looking for > > fluids. leaky rear end > > could be expensive (6.9 only ratio), leaky > > engine or transmission could > > also be expensive. leaking around the > > suspension is BAD. > > - car may change height after starting, meaning > > the suspension had to > > "pump up". This could signal a leaky > > suspension. > > - there is a lever in the center of the dash > > which locks the suspension in > > high clearance mode (for snow and such), and > a > > drive position where the > > suspension is allowed to do as it wants... > > IIRC, the high switch should > > cause the car to raise enough that you'd > > notice. (I'm kinda fuzzy on this > > one) > > - check for oil in the radiator. you do NOT > want > > to rebuild this engine. > > - on the test drive, check that the car: > > - stops on a dime and gives you nine cents > > change (it really should, > > the brakes on this monster are amazing) > > - accelerates to redline smoothly. An easy > > way to test the revs on the > > engine without getting too many speeding > > tickets is to (after engine > > is warm), take it up to 5000 RPM in > first > > gear (should be somewhere > > around 45-50 mph if I remember right). > The > > rev it up test will rule > > - drives around smoothly. do NOT spend > less > > than 20 minutes driving > > the car, make sure it comes up to speed, > > cruises down the freeway > > effortlessly, catches second on the > > freeway when you punch it, etc. > > - while driving the car, remember that the 6.9 > > fuel distributor costs about > > $1800, and that high pressure Bosch fuel > > injection is a royal pain in the > > ARSE to deal with when it's not working > right. > > "Oh, it just needs plugs, > > wires, cap and a rotor" will run you about > $150 > > for the cap alone, I don't > > even want to think about the m100 specific > plug > > wires (unless you want to > > custom build some from moroso wire stock for > a > > 455 buick ). > > > > IIRC, last I checked, parts, machining, and > someone > > who actually knew how to > > put the bloody engine together was over $6000, and > I > > want to say it was even > > over $7000. You can sure get a nice running one > for > > that. Check Hemmings. > > > > To be honest, I think the least of your worries is > > the suspension, if you > > HAD to go through it and can do the work yourself > > (and there's a couple of > > citroen owners on this list you could probably > talk > > into some pointers as it is > > the same suspension setup). If you have to pay > > someone to do it, it's gonna > > cost you a ton of money. Don't worry, the engine > > rebuild will be far more > > expensive. I think the citroen guys were saying > they > > could rebuild the > > suspension in their citroens (supplying their own > > labor) for under $800. I'll > > let them correct me if I am wrong. (Note, the air > > suspension setup on the 6.3 > > is INCREDIBLY expensive to repair, probably > > compounded by the age of the 6.3s) > > > > All of the 6.9s I've ever seen lacked the 450SEL > > badge, and just had an > > innocuous looking 6.9 badge on the trunk. Myself, > I > > would yank the badge to > > detract attention from it - it will look like > every > > other 450SEL on the road > > to unsuspecting rice rockets. :) > > > > Good luck, and remember the list motto - there is > > nothing more expensive than > > an inexpensive mercedes benz. > > > > K > > > > -- > > Kevin Pekarek > > Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and > > Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) > > 85 190D (601, 5spd) > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product > search > http://shopping.yahoo.com > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:36:58 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] replacing CV boots on a 300td Hue, Define "shot". All cars with some age have cracking boots. Unless you can see all the way through your fine. When they start popping is when you have the problems. Its an expensive job from what I understand. the parts (at least on a 300d sedan) are about $300 per side plus labor. The boots on my 300SD are rather not so great looking but are not broken through yet. I don't think there is a way to just do the boots. But if you discover a way let me know. My brothers car has already started clicking and its a HORRIBLE sound! Robert Chase hue wong wrote: > So, just discovered my rear CV boots are shot on my > new 300td (so far the biggest problem I have > discovered) > > So I take it in to my new shop (If anyone is the > seattle area needs a good shop, I think I finally > found one) and apperently I have one of the "rare" > 300td that have a different kind of transaxle that the > shop book rates as a nine hour job instead of the > usual 1.5 hour job to replace these boots. > > So my question is: do they make and are they any > good, the wrap around, bolt on CV rubber boot for > these cars? I usta get them for my VW bug and they > worked ok, but all those had to do was keep dirt out, > these CV boots on the Merc seems to keep oil in. So > I'm dubious about this aproach, but if it saves me > 500.00 then I'm all for it!!! > > Anyone have any experiences along these lines? > Thanx in advance. > -hue- > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search > http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:03:29 -0700 From: "derick" Subject: RE: [db] replacing CV boots on a 300td I talked my dad out of this approach even on his VW rabbit. I disassembled the axle and replaced them with original OEM boot and repacked the CV. I have no faith in the split type. It would bug the heck out of me to know they were there and I would spend more time inspecting them. When I could have used that time to put the right ones on. I tend to be anal about these things though. That is my position.. Now my cousin in NY swears by them and uses them. I guess It depends on if saving the money overrides your fear factor. I mean the worst that can happen is the axle will die premature but it will tell you when it wants to check out and you will have time to replace before total failure. The cost of two new drive axles is $500 (free shipping) with new boots and CV's. I checked one place, "thebenzbin", and assumed you had a 123.133 chassis so I could be off a little on price if you have a different chassis. If you do go the split boot route I would like to know how you make out. Good luck Derick -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of hue wong Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 9:28 AM To: Sam Williams; 'Greg Fiorentino'; 'Diesel Benz' Subject: [db] replacing CV boots on a 300td So, just discovered my rear CV boots are shot on my new 300td (so far the biggest problem I have discovered) So I take it in to my new shop (If anyone is the seattle area needs a good shop, I think I finally found one) and apperently I have one of the "rare" 300td that have a different kind of transaxle that the shop book rates as a nine hour job instead of the usual 1.5 hour job to replace these boots. So my question is: do they make and are they any good, the wrap around, bolt on CV rubber boot for these cars? I usta get them for my VW bug and they worked ok, but all those had to do was keep dirt out, these CV boots on the Merc seems to keep oil in. So I'm dubious about this aproach, but if it saves me 500.00 then I'm all for it!!! Anyone have any experiences along these lines? Thanx in advance. - -hue- __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com - --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 - Release Date: 9/29/2003 - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 - Release Date: 9/29/2003 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:20:25 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] replacing CV boots on a 300td I agree, I would wait until they start making noise before replacing them though...... Get every single mile out of the originals before spending the cash. Robert Chase derick wrote: > I talked my dad out of this approach even on his VW rabbit. I disassembled > the axle and replaced them with original OEM boot and repacked the CV. > I have no faith in the split type. > It would bug the heck out of me to know they were there and I would spend > more time inspecting them. > When I could have used that time to put the right ones on. > I tend to be anal about these things though. > > That is my position.. > > Now my cousin in NY swears by them and uses them. > > I guess It depends on if saving the money overrides your fear factor. I mean > the worst that can happen is the axle will die premature but it will tell > you when it wants to check out and you will have time to replace before > total failure. > > The cost of two new drive axles is $500 (free shipping) with new boots and > CV's. I checked one place, "thebenzbin", and assumed you had a 123.133 > chassis so I could be off a little on price if you have a different chassis. > > If you do go the split boot route I would like to know how you make out. > > Good luck > > Derick > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] > On Behalf Of hue wong > Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 9:28 AM > To: Sam Williams; 'Greg Fiorentino'; 'Diesel Benz' > Subject: [db] replacing CV boots on a 300td > > So, just discovered my rear CV boots are shot on my > new 300td (so far the biggest problem I have > discovered) > > So I take it in to my new shop (If anyone is the > seattle area needs a good shop, I think I finally > found one) and apperently I have one of the "rare" > 300td that have a different kind of transaxle that the > shop book rates as a nine hour job instead of the > usual 1.5 hour job to replace these boots. > > So my question is: do they make and are they any > good, the wrap around, bolt on CV rubber boot for > these cars? I usta get them for my VW bug and they > worked ok, but all those had to do was keep dirt out, > these CV boots on the Merc seems to keep oil in. So > I'm dubious about this aproach, but if it saves me > 500.00 then I'm all for it!!! > > Anyone have any experiences along these lines? > Thanx in advance. > -hue- > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search > http://shopping.yahoo.com > > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 - Release Date: 9/29/2003 > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 - Release Date: 9/29/2003 ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1234 **********************************