From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Thu Oct 16 14:47:17 2003 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Thursday, October 16 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1251 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] 1990's E300D Reviews / Advice Re: [db] 1990's E300D Reviews / Advice Re: [db] 1990's E300D Reviews / Advice Re[2]: [db] 1990's E300D Reviews / Advice Re[2]: [db] 1990's E300D Reviews / Advice Re: [db] Parts sources, Was: filter follies Re: [db] 1990's E300D Reviews / Advice Re[2]: [db] Parts sources, Was: filter follies Re: [db] Parts sources, Was: filter follies Re: [db] 1990's E300D Reviews / Advice [db] Questions Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:35:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Welty Subject: Re: [db] 1990's E300D Reviews / Advice On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:06:34 -0400 John Peterson wrote: > My mechanic is able to buy trade-ins to the local Mercedes dealer from them > wholesale and can help-- I like the 300 body from the 1990's, and am wondering > what are the "better years" for the 300D? there are two very different "1990s" bodies for the 300D. John has one of the older cars, and my wife's 1996 E300D is one of the newer "E-Class" models. the breakpoint is 1996, i believe; the 1995s were in the older style. we're pretty happy with ours, at 120,000+ miles. haven't had a lot go wrong with it, given the mileage. the 6 cylinder 3L engine is quite a bit more powerful, as well as a bit smoother, than the inline 5 3L in our 1977 300D. tires are pretty expensive, though. we just put a set of Dunlop Winter Sport M2s on it for the winter. ouch. richard - -- Richard Welty rwelty-at-suespammers.org Averill Park Networking rwelty-at-averillpark.net Unix, Linux, IP Network Engineering, Security rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com 518-573-7592 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:42:40 -0700 From: john meister Subject: Re: [db] 1990's E300D Reviews / Advice what size tires does yours take? I put a set of BFG Traction A/T's on mine, 195-65-15 and they were quite reasonable, was able to trade in my Michelin's for $100, think the bill came to less then $200 with the trade in. The BFGs are better then the Michelins, of course considering the tires were one size too small I don't know if the comparison is fair. But I get a lot better traction on wet roads with these tires. The six cylinder 3.0L in that '87 seemed a bit faster then my 5 cylinder 2.5L TD. john Richard Welty wrote: >On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:06:34 -0400 John Peterson wrote: > > >>My mechanic is able to buy trade-ins to the local Mercedes dealer from them >>wholesale and can help-- I like the 300 body from the 1990's, and am wondering >>what are the "better years" for the 300D? >> >> > >there are two very different "1990s" bodies for the 300D. John has one of >the older cars, and my wife's 1996 E300D is one of the newer "E-Class" >models. the breakpoint is 1996, i believe; the 1995s were in the older >style. > >we're pretty happy with ours, at 120,000+ miles. haven't had a lot go wrong >with it, given the mileage. the 6 cylinder 3L engine is quite a bit more >powerful, as well as a bit smoother, than the inline 5 3L in our 1977 >300D. > >tires are pretty expensive, though. we just put a set of Dunlop Winter >Sport M2s on it for the winter. ouch. > >richard > > - -- - ----------------------------- Oh well, I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess -Red Green http://www.redgreen.com/ - ------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:43:41 -0400 From: clwhitney-at-dmv.com Subject: Re: [db] 1990's E300D Reviews / Advice Greetings listers, my first post. I'll chime on on John Peterson's request regarding E300's. I have a new to me '95 E300D. I bought it in June. My first diesel of any sort, although I'm priviledged to also own a '93 500E. Both cars are the W124 chassis. I commute about 110 miles a day and I retired my '89 Mazda 626 at 300,000 miles due to intractable electrical issues - engine still ran very well. I'd always been interested in a diesel and since I had (and liked) an MB 124 chassis I thought I'd seek a diesel. The '95 is the last year for the W124 chassis - interesting in that my car has a late 1993 build date. The 606 diesel in the '95 car is, I believe, the first year for that engine. It is a non turbo engine. From accounts I've read, the '95 is a good year - final year for the chassis, and they appear to have gotten the engine right pretty much off the starting block. Many reports of very high mile cars running nicely. My car now has 147K, 7 of which are mine. Starts very quickly after glowing, but we have not had any really cold weather yet. I just wired the block heater, but I'm not going to use it unless needed. My car is getting a consistent 35 - 36 MPG, which is better than my Mazda did. I'm running Rotella dino 15-40 oil, if it matters. If you seek a W124 chassis, the 94's and 95's have different headlights, which are better than earlier years. Otherwise quite similar to earlier years. I put shocks and struts and ball joints on mine, typical for 100,000 plus miles, I'd say. And I put motor mounts on, made a HUGE difference in smoothness. Probably also necessary for cars with some miles. I find the car to be rather sluggish - acceleration wise, but I'm getting used to it. Apparently it's quite zippy compared to earlier diesels - although the 2.5 turbo is probably faster. It cruises very nicely at 70 - 75, and if you kick it down to pass at 50 - 60 it does alright once it downshifts. Otherwise, I'm hearing what I think is a failing A/C control unit, as I have tons of clicks going on behind the dash in the center right side when I adjust the temp or engage the A/C, with or without the compressor. Clicks slow down and eventually more or less stop when interior reaches temp. Also, my cruise control does not work, research suggests it is probably the control amp unit, but during a quick look under the driver's side dash it was not apparent how to remove the lower dash to remove the amp, and finally, my LCD temperature indicator is fading in and out of view. And my glow plug light lit for a minute and then went out this morning after about 5-6 minutes on the road - this probably means glow plugs some time soon, but it still starts fine. Otherwise, so far, so good. Rgds, Chris Whitney - ------------------------------------------------------ This message was sent using Delmarva Online's Webmail. http://www.dmv.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:03:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Welty Subject: Re[2]: [db] 1990's E300D Reviews / Advice On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:42:40 -0700 john meister wrote: > what size tires does yours take? for snows, we're using a 205/55R16 which is a little narrower than the OE size of 215/55R16. i like to run snows a little narrow for better traction. > The BFGs are better then the Michelins, of course > considering the tires > were one size too small I don't know if the comparison is fair. But I > get a lot better > traction on wet roads with these tires. i have always found Michelins to be overpriced and overrated. in particular, i've generally felt that in inclement conditions, michelins are the last tire i want to have on a car (although recent michelin summer tires do seem better in the wet than they used to be.) i find that companies that are actively involved in competition programs based around DOT tires often benefit a lot in their street tire programs. Yokohama used to have a first rate DOT competition tire, but has slipped. same for BFG, but in both cases, they still have some very sound street tires. outfits like Kumho are very aggressive in the street based competition arena right now, which is why i'm looking at them very seriously for my next round of summer tire acquisitions. by comparison, i've only seen michelin and firestone producing this class of tire for spec tire series where only one brand of tire is allowed. they get their name all over the place and lots of press about their involvement in competition without the nasty business of actually risking losing to some upstart tire company. back when the BFG/Yokohama competition was at its peak, you would see multiple advances in the tires over the course of the season, and fairly rapid feedback into their street tire lines. it was impressive to watch. richard - -- Richard Welty rwelty-at-suespammers.org Averill Park Networking rwelty-at-averillpark.net Unix, Linux, IP Network Engineering, Security rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com 518-573-7592 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:13:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Welty Subject: Re[2]: [db] 1990's E300D Reviews / Advice On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:43:41 -0400 clwhitney-at-dmv.com wrote: > Otherwise quite similar to earlier years. I > put shocks and struts and ball joints on mine, typical for 100,000 plus miles, > I'd say. And I put motor mounts on, made a HUGE difference in smoothness. > Probably also necessary for cars with some miles. here's a point i forgot to make in my earlier note -- we identified a car via long distance, my wife found it on the internet. while we live in upstate NY, my parents live in St. Pete Florida, and the car was in Sarasota, so we got my dad to vet the car. the owner wanted a premium, and the body and interior were in fine condition, but we insisted that at the price we wanted a reputable dealership to inspect the car. since glauser in sarasota is well regarded, we spent the money to have them give the car the once over. they identified a number of problems like bad motor mounts[1] and control arm bushings; the previous owner knew how to keep a car looking good but wasn't very mechanical. we insisted that he fix the mechanical defects if he wanted to get his premium price. so i would recommend having a pre-purchase inspection. if the dealership in your area is no good, then find a reputable independent mechanic. i should also mention that for the past couple of months, we've been driving on tires that are way past their prime, first on a set of conti three seasons that were almost completely dead, and then on the blizzak snows that were ready for retirement. my wife was sure we had some sort of suspension problem. we put the new dunlops on and all those problems went away. richard [1] my dad heard/felt a clunk shutting off the motor, which the previous owner seemed oblivious to. he told me about it, and my first reaction was driveline lash due to driveshaft problem or bad motor mounts. i was right, and so we learned of the previous owners limitations right away. - -- Richard Welty rwelty-at-suespammers.org Averill Park Networking rwelty-at-averillpark.net Unix, Linux, IP Network Engineering, Security rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com 518-573-7592 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:23:50 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] Parts sources, Was: filter follies Richard, Have you considered getting the quote in writing and sending MBUSA a letter with the documentation of the actual part cost? The Atlanta dealerships here "know better" than to pull that crap. While its a free market to charge whatever you want for a product if that dealership suddenly started charging $400k for an E class I'm sure that MBUSA would drop their franchise. Mercedes realizes that their "claim to fame" is the fact that you can keep one of their cars running almost forever. A greedy dealership like you have could easily tarnish their reputation. I'm sure that this has gone unchecked because no one has complained. But then again with the Chrysler merger who knows what demons are flying about there. Perhaps the new rebadged Dodge Neon with a Mercedes Emblem is next. Robert Chase Richard Welty wrote: > argh. i meant to send this to the whole list, not just to sam: > > On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:48:23 -0500 Sam Williams <1sam-at-io.com> wrote: > >>Individual stores vary. I find NAPA products more dependable than >>those from the McParts stores. Often OEM parts from the MB dealer >>parts counter are less expensive and higher quality than similar >>parts from other sources. That varies by dealer and over time >>at the same dealer. I've never had a bad MB Branded part but >>WOW!, they sure can be expensive, sometimes. > > > you may not have been reading the list when i told my radiator hose story. > i'll recap, just to give an idea exactly what sort of business the local MB > dealership is here in Albany. > > the upper radiator hose in my wife's 1996 E300D developed a split. i asked > at the local NAPA (it's a molded hose with three bends, nothing hard about > that) but they said it was dealer only. i headed over to the local > dealership (Keeler, on NY 7). they quoted me $200 for the hose. > > i checked rusty's web site, the hose wasn't on it. i called, because rusty > has resources that aren't on the web site. he quoted me about $16 for the > same hose the dealership wanted $200 for. when it showed up, it was an MB > part with a pick slip from the US MB warehouse. > > so if the franchise were ever to change hands in Albany, i'd consider going > to the dealership. but as long as it's held by keeler, it'll be a cold day > in hell before i go back there. > > richard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:26:21 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] 1990's E300D Reviews / Advice HMMMMM! Is the 3.5 the same engine as in the w-140? Ever w-140 diesel I have ever come in contact with has had major engine work. Was there ever a 3.0L w-140? Yes DAMNIT I want a w-140 :) Robert Chase john meister wrote: > I've got a '91 300d with the 2.5L TD, I've also tested out an '87 with > the 3.0L TD. > > From what I know it's good to avoid the 3.5L engines. I've got 175,000 > miles on mine, > have some brake rotor issues to deal with but otherwise it's a great > car. Really like > the 124 chassis. > > john > > John Peterson wrote: > >> Mercedes diesel fans, I'm a newbie. I'm joining after 5+ years of >> being a >> Saab owner and forum member. I'm going to buy a diesel mercedes, and >> would >> like some advice for models to look for. I'd also like to know where >> people >> generally find them-- it seems that dealers here (Rhode Island) don't >> have any >> older ones. >> >> My mechanic is able to buy trade-ins to the local Mercedes dealer from >> them >> wholesale and can help-- I like the 300 body from the 1990's, and am >> wondering >> what are the "better years" for the 300D? >> >> Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:31:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Welty Subject: Re[2]: [db] Parts sources, Was: filter follies On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:23:50 -0400 Robert Chase wrote: > Have you considered getting the quote in writing and sending MBUSA a > letter with the documentation of the actual part cost? The Atlanta > dealerships here "know better" than to pull that crap. While its a free > market to charge whatever you want for a product if that dealership > suddenly started charging $400k for an E class I'm sure that MBUSA would > drop their franchise. i'm not sure MBUSA actually can do that. the laws are heavily biased towards protecting the small franchise holder against the big bad national business. i don't know what MBUSA thinks of Keeler, but i am given to understand that BMW NA really doesn't like Keeler at all but is powerless when it comes to yanking Keeler's BMW franchise. richard - -- Richard Welty rwelty-at-suespammers.org Averill Park Networking rwelty-at-averillpark.net Unix, Linux, IP Network Engineering, Security rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com 518-573-7592 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:43:16 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] Parts sources, Was: filter follies Richard, There are ways around that stuff. If they get enough complaints and don't like the dealership they can actively find another dealership to give a franchise to. Competition generally squelches that kind of behavior rather quickly. Price gouging is a crummy business practice. Your attitude about the situation helps though. Not doing business with a crappy company takes money right out of their pockets. Spreading the word helps too. If I ever break down in Albany New York Ill be sure to avoid that dealership at all costs. Robert Chase Richard Welty wrote: > On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:23:50 -0400 Robert Chase wrote: > >>Have you considered getting the quote in writing and sending MBUSA a >>letter with the documentation of the actual part cost? The Atlanta >>dealerships here "know better" than to pull that crap. While its a free >>market to charge whatever you want for a product if that dealership >>suddenly started charging $400k for an E class I'm sure that MBUSA would >>drop their franchise. > > > i'm not sure MBUSA actually can do that. the laws are heavily biased > towards protecting the small franchise holder against the big bad national > business. i don't know what MBUSA thinks of Keeler, but i am given to > understand that BMW NA really doesn't like Keeler at all but is powerless > when it comes to yanking Keeler's BMW franchise. > > richard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:09:28 -0500 From: wguess Subject: Re: [db] 1990's E300D Reviews / Advice Just curious, since I'm currently shopping for one of these also, would anyone care to pick the "one", or maybe a couple of the best diesel models 1980 to present? Thanks! > > > John Peterson wrote: > >> Mercedes diesel fans, I'm a newbie. I'm joining after 5+ years of >> being a >> Saab owner and forum member. I'm going to buy a diesel mercedes, and >> would >> like some advice for models to look for. I'd also like to know where >> people >> generally find them-- it seems that dealers here (Rhode Island) don't >> have any >> older ones. >> >> My mechanic is able to buy trade-ins to the local Mercedes dealer >> from them >> wholesale and can help-- I like the 300 body from the 1990's, and am >> wondering >> what are the "better years" for the 300D? >> >> Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:43:37 -0700 From: "Paul Schwartz" Subject: [db] Questions Reading over the MBZ engine service manual, it lists two 616.912 engines, one with 44kW and one with 53kW of power. The only difference I can determine is that the camshafts are different; that is the valve timing is different and 53kW engine's camshaft has a different stamping on the end. >From reading the specs, it seem that most 616.912 engines in the US are the 44kW version. At least all other specs I have read conform to the valve timing of the 43kW engine. Does anyone know anything about this mysterious 53 kW engine? Is the difference only the cam/valve timing? The real question is, could I replace the camshaft in my engine with a different one and get a little more horsepower? Paul ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1251 **********************************