From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Thu Oct 30 14:03:43 2003 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Thursday, October 30 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1267 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: [db] Heavy vibration RE: [db] Heavy vibration Re: [db] reducing emissions - Euro style [db] reducing emissions - Euro style Re: [db] reducing emissions - Euro style Re: [db] reducing emissions - Euro style Re: [db] reducing emissions - Euro style Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:41:07 -0800 From: "derick" Subject: RE: [db] Heavy vibration Mike my 300d had a bad driver side mount and it also smoothed out at a higher RPM. It felt like a jackhammer was hitting the chassis at idle. If this indeed is the case it is a motor mount. You can tell, shut the engine off and look at them. Also feel them with your fingers see if the are cracked or mushy. I could actually pull pieces of mine out. Derick - -----Original Message----- From: Aimino, Michael [mailto:maimino-at-freemarkets.com] Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 10:32 AM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: RE: [db] Heavy vibration That's possible, too. The roughness smoothed out considerably at higher RPMs. Very rough at idle. Though the engine itself sounds fine, no obvious misses. - -----Original Message----- From: john meister [mailto:dieseljohn-at-comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 1:19 PM To: Aimino, Michael Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: [db] Heavy vibration could be a bad or clogged injector... john Aimino, Michael wrote: >Started my 300SD this morning and immediately noticed the car vibrating >much more than usual. Without having checked anything out, I'm >suspecting a motor mount bushing. > >Does any one have any advice on replacing a motor mount? Is an engine >life required? Any "gotchas" I should look for. > >Mike Aimino >Technical Writer II >FreeMarkets, Inc. >210 Sixth Avenue >Pittsburgh, PA 15222 >(412) 297-7386 > >A.M.D.G. > > > - -- - ----------------------------- Oh well, I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess -Red Green http://www.redgreen.com/ - ------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.532 / Virus Database: 326 - Release Date: 10/27/2003 - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.532 / Virus Database: 326 - Release Date: 10/27/2003 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:50:04 -0500 From: "Aimino, Michael" Subject: RE: [db] Heavy vibration Yeah, that's a good description of the symptoms I'm experiencing. It's like metal on metal. A little startling, to say the least, especially at 6:00 AM. I'll physically check them tonight. Thanks for all the info. - -----Original Message----- From: derick [mailto:derick-at-amburgey.us] Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 1:41 PM To: Aimino, Michael; diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: RE: [db] Heavy vibration Mike my 300d had a bad driver side mount and it also smoothed out at a higher RPM. It felt like a jackhammer was hitting the chassis at idle. If this indeed is the case it is a motor mount. You can tell, shut the engine off and look at them. Also feel them with your fingers see if the are cracked or mushy. I could actually pull pieces of mine out. Derick - -----Original Message----- From: Aimino, Michael [mailto:maimino-at-freemarkets.com] Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 10:32 AM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: RE: [db] Heavy vibration That's possible, too. The roughness smoothed out considerably at higher RPMs. Very rough at idle. Though the engine itself sounds fine, no obvious misses. - -----Original Message----- From: john meister [mailto:dieseljohn-at-comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 1:19 PM To: Aimino, Michael Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: [db] Heavy vibration could be a bad or clogged injector... john Aimino, Michael wrote: >Started my 300SD this morning and immediately noticed the car vibrating >much more than usual. Without having checked anything out, I'm >suspecting a motor mount bushing. > >Does any one have any advice on replacing a motor mount? Is an engine >life required? Any "gotchas" I should look for. > >Mike Aimino >Technical Writer II >FreeMarkets, Inc. >210 Sixth Avenue >Pittsburgh, PA 15222 >(412) 297-7386 > >A.M.D.G. > > > - -- - ----------------------------- Oh well, I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess -Red Green http://www.redgreen.com/ - ------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.532 / Virus Database: 326 - Release Date: 10/27/2003 - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.532 / Virus Database: 326 - Release Date: 10/27/2003 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:26:05 -0800 From: john meister Subject: Re: [db] reducing emissions - Euro style no the manager approved it and forced the schedule. the engineers knew better or should have... they were working on building a Diesel "442" using long intake runners and a 4 speed on a Diesel... one of the guys I went to high school with is an engineer in detroit told me a little about how it works... management tells them what to do, gives them the budget and the schedule... no input from outside... john Jim Hoffman wrote: > >A *manager* made the drawings and came up with what was needed to >convert a standard gasoline engine to a diesel? I doubt that. Maybe >management made the decision but engineering as a group should have >had enough sense to say *NO* that won't work! And we're left to >deal with the aftermath. 25+ YEARS later no less! That debacle >alone will not allow me to buy any GM crap! > (Gosh I love XML!) ;) > >Jim/ > > > >>It wasn't an engineer... it was a manager... and more then likely the >>problem >>was at the dealership and NOT in detroit. They figured out the >>problems after >>a couple of years, the problems at the dealerships were more severe and >>complicated >>the issues... some dipstick manager made the decision to put those >>things on the market >>before fully testing it... by '83 they had the 5.7L's dialed in and >>reliable. The 6.2's >>started out rocky, but got straightened out... >> >>john >> >>Jim Hoffman wrote: >> >> >> >>>Two points... >>> >>>One... people don't *necessarily* buy the hybrid to save fuel. >>>They buy it so save the environment. So the fact that it will take >>>a LOT of fuel consumed to make up the difference in price is not >>>relevant... It just feels like the *right* thing to do. >>> >>>Two... EVERY time you convert from one form of energy to another, >>>you lose something. What that *something* is I don't know. But >>>I think it's better to improve the efficency of the engine and just >>>burn the fuel rather than try converting to electric. >>> >>>Ok... Three ;) And I know it's a dead horse but we can all STILL >>>thank G.M. for killing the diesel market! Man I'd love to meet that >>>engineer in a dark alley someday! ;) >>> >>> >>>Just my $.02 ;) >>> >>>Jim/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>----------------------------- >> Oh well, >> I'm a man, >> but I can change, >> if I have to, >> I guess >> -Red Green http://www.redgreen.com/ >>------------------------------ >> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >> Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >> > > > - -- - ----------------------------- Oh well, I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess -Red Green http://www.redgreen.com/ - ------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:31:56 -0600 From: "Black, Waylon" Subject: [db] reducing emissions - Euro style Ahhh, but engineers create and Managers/Supervisors 'Approve/Reject'. Somebody had the opportunity to question testing and could have rejected the idea - but didn't. Waylon Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:27:23 -0500 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] reducing emissions - Euro style A *manager* made the drawings and came up with what was needed to convert a standard gasoline engine to a diesel? I doubt that. Maybe management made the decision but engineering as a group should have had enough sense to say *NO* that won't work! And we're left to deal with the aftermath. 25+ YEARS later no less! That debacle alone will not allow me to buy any GM crap! (Gosh I love XML!) ;) Jim/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 15:04:01 -0500 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] reducing emissions - Euro style Thank you Waylon! I guess that's the way it should work in a perfect world. I guess Detroit is *far* from perfect! ;) Jim/ > Ahhh, but engineers create and Managers/Supervisors 'Approve/Reject'. > > Somebody had the opportunity to question testing and could have rejected the > idea - but didn't. > > Waylon > > Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:27:23 -0500 > From: "Jim Hoffman" > Subject: Re: [db] reducing emissions - Euro style > > > A *manager* made the drawings and came up with what was needed to > convert a standard gasoline engine to a diesel? I doubt that. Maybe > management made the decision but engineering as a group should have > had enough sense to say *NO* that won't work! And we're left to > deal with the aftermath. 25+ YEARS later no less! That debacle > alone will not allow me to buy any GM crap! > (Gosh I love XML!) ;) > > Jim/ > - -- Jim Hoffman Oconomowoc WI '39 Allis Model B '53 Ford Golden Jubilee '?? Bolens Huskie Gardener ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:14:50 -0800 From: john meister Subject: Re: [db] reducing emissions - Euro style I had an '80 Olds Cutlass with the original 5.7L... replaced it under a program with the Targetmaster... it lasted for a long time... I had a trans problem that caused it to downshift to first at 65mph... broke the camshaft... car had over 200k on it and had been doing fine... worn out, but doing fine... john Potter, Tom E wrote: >What I never understood was why GM did not use the perfectly good 8V-53 diesel engine that they had. It would have made a fine engine for trucks. I had a couple of the 5.7L diesel engines in an Oldsmobile station wagon. They were a piece of junk. After the second diesel croaked, I put a 403ci gas engine in it and had no more problems. > >Thomas E. Potter >Telephone: (713) 215-2877 >Fax: (713) 215-2551 >Mobile: (832) 794-0536 > > >-----Original Message----- >From: john meister [mailto:dieseljohn-at-comcast.net] >Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 1:26 PM >To: jslash-at-execpc.com >Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >Subject: Re: [db] reducing emissions - Euro style > > >no the manager approved it and forced the schedule. the engineers knew >better >or should have... they were working on building a Diesel "442" using >long intake >runners and a 4 speed on a Diesel... > >one of the guys I went to high school with is an engineer in detroit told me >a little about how it works... management tells them what to do, gives >them the budget >and the schedule... no input from outside... > >john > >Jim Hoffman wrote: > > > >> >>A *manager* made the drawings and came up with what was needed to >>convert a standard gasoline engine to a diesel? I doubt that. Maybe >>management made the decision but engineering as a group should have >>had enough sense to say *NO* that won't work! And we're left to >>deal with the aftermath. 25+ YEARS later no less! That debacle >>alone will not allow me to buy any GM crap! >> (Gosh I love XML!) ;) >> >>Jim/ >> >> >> >> >> >>>It wasn't an engineer... it was a manager... and more then likely the >>>problem >>>was at the dealership and NOT in detroit. They figured out the >>>problems after >>>a couple of years, the problems at the dealerships were more severe and >>>complicated >>>the issues... some dipstick manager made the decision to put those >>>things on the market >>>before fully testing it... by '83 they had the 5.7L's dialed in and >>>reliable. The 6.2's >>>started out rocky, but got straightened out... >>> >>>john >>> >>>Jim Hoffman wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Two points... >>>> >>>>One... people don't *necessarily* buy the hybrid to save fuel. >>>>They buy it so save the environment. So the fact that it will take >>>>a LOT of fuel consumed to make up the difference in price is not >>>>relevant... It just feels like the *right* thing to do. >>>> >>>>Two... EVERY time you convert from one form of energy to another, >>>>you lose something. What that *something* is I don't know. But >>>>I think it's better to improve the efficency of the engine and just >>>>burn the fuel rather than try converting to electric. >>>> >>>>Ok... Three ;) And I know it's a dead horse but we can all STILL >>>>thank G.M. for killing the diesel market! Man I'd love to meet that >>>>engineer in a dark alley someday! ;) >>>> >>>> >>>>Just my $.02 ;) >>>> >>>>Jim/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>-- >>>----------------------------- >>> Oh well, >>> I'm a man, >>> but I can change, >>> if I have to, >>> I guess >>> -Red Green http://www.redgreen.com/ >>>------------------------------ >>> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >>> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >>> Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > - -- - ----------------------------- Oh well, I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess -Red Green http://www.redgreen.com/ - ------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:25:55 CST From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: [db] reducing emissions - Euro style But wasn't the GM 5.7 diesel, in any incarnation, weak, noisy, and smoky? Add those three characteristics to the original unreliability, and it's pretty clear why most undereducated (at least with respect to diesels) Americans don't want diesels. Alec > I had an '80 Olds Cutlass with the original 5.7L... replaced it under a > program > with the Targetmaster... it lasted for a long time... I had a trans > problem that > caused it to downshift to first at 65mph... broke the camshaft... car > had over > 200k on it and had been doing fine... worn out, but doing fine... > > john > > Potter, Tom E wrote: > > >What I never understood was why GM did not use the perfectly good 8V-53 diesel engine that they had. It would have made a fine engine for trucks. I had a couple of the 5.7L diesel engines in an Oldsmobile station wagon. They were a piece of junk. After the second diesel croaked, I put a 403ci gas engine in it and had no more problems. > > > >Thomas E. Potter > >Telephone: (713) 215-2877 > >Fax: (713) 215-2551 > >Mobile: (832) 794-0536 > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: john meister [mailto:dieseljohn-at-comcast.net] > >Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 1:26 PM > >To: jslash-at-execpc.com > >Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > >Subject: Re: [db] reducing emissions - Euro style > > > > > >no the manager approved it and forced the schedule. the engineers knew > >better > >or should have... they were working on building a Diesel "442" using > >long intake > >runners and a 4 speed on a Diesel... > > > >one of the guys I went to high school with is an engineer in detroit told me > >a little about how it works... management tells them what to do, gives > >them the budget > >and the schedule... no input from outside... > > > >john > > > >Jim Hoffman wrote: > > > > > > > >> > >>A *manager* made the drawings and came up with what was needed to > >>convert a standard gasoline engine to a diesel? I doubt that. Maybe > >>management made the decision but engineering as a group should have > >>had enough sense to say *NO* that won't work! And we're left to > >>deal with the aftermath. 25+ YEARS later no less! That debacle > >>alone will not allow me to buy any GM crap! > >> (Gosh I love XML!) ;) > >> > >>Jim/ > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>>It wasn't an engineer... it was a manager... and more then likely the > >>>problem > >>>was at the dealership and NOT in detroit. They figured out the > >>>problems after > >>>a couple of years, the problems at the dealerships were more severe and > >>>complicated > >>>the issues... some dipstick manager made the decision to put those > >>>things on the market > >>>before fully testing it... by '83 they had the 5.7L's dialed in and > >>>reliable. The 6.2's > >>>started out rocky, but got straightened out... > >>> > >>>john > >>> > >>>Jim Hoffman wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>Two points... > >>>> > >>>>One... people don't *necessarily* buy the hybrid to save fuel. > >>>>They buy it so save the environment. So the fact that it will take > >>>>a LOT of fuel consumed to make up the difference in price is not > >>>>relevant... It just feels like the *right* thing to do. > >>>> > >>>>Two... EVERY time you convert from one form of energy to another, > >>>>you lose something. What that *something* is I don't know. But > >>>>I think it's better to improve the efficency of the engine and just > >>>>burn the fuel rather than try converting to electric. > >>>> > >>>>Ok... Three ;) And I know it's a dead horse but we can all STILL > >>>>thank G.M. for killing the diesel market! Man I'd love to meet that > >>>>engineer in a dark alley someday! ;) > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>Just my $.02 ;) > >>>> > >>>>Jim/ > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>-- > >>>----------------------------- > >>> Oh well, > >>> I'm a man, > >>> but I can change, > >>> if I have to, > >>> I guess > >>> -Red Green http://www.redgreen.com/ > >>>------------------------------ > >>> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > >>> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > >>> Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > ----------------------------- > Oh well, > I'm a man, > but I can change, > if I have to, > I guess > -Red Green http://www.redgreen.com/ > ------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1267 **********************************