From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Fri Oct 31 21:36:19 2003 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Friday, October 31 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1269 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] Tweaking MB turbo diesels Re: [db] Tweaking MB turbo diesels RE: [db] Tweaking MB turbo diesels Re: [db] Tweaking MB turbo diesels RE: [db] Tweaking MB turbo diesels RE: [db] Heavy vibration Re: [db] Tweaking MB turbo diesels Re: [db] experiments in Jeep Turbo Diesels [db] Re: Merc 190D Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:18:08 -0600 From: "Black, Waylon" Subject: [db] Tweaking MB turbo diesels If you haven't seen it yet. ;) http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=46703&high light=intercoo Waylon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 15:27:24 -0800 From: john meister Subject: Re: [db] Tweaking MB turbo diesels my '85 Cherokee with the 2.1L all -aluminum Renault turbo Diesel was intercooled... produced more HP then the 2.5L gas engine used that year! john Black, Waylon wrote: >If you haven't seen it yet. ;) > >http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=46703&high >light=intercoo > >Waylon > > > - -- - ----------------------------- Oh well, I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess -Red Green http://www.redgreen.com/ - ------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:25:51 -0600 From: "Black, Waylon" Subject: RE: [db] Tweaking MB turbo diesels Factory? Where do you get the Renault TD? WB - -----Original Message----- From: john meister [mailto:dieseljohn-at-comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 5:27 PM To: Black, Waylon Cc: 'diesel-benz-at-digest.net' Subject: Re: [db] Tweaking MB turbo diesels my '85 Cherokee with the 2.1L all -aluminum Renault turbo Diesel was intercooled... produced more HP then the 2.5L gas engine used that year! john Black, Waylon wrote: >If you haven't seen it yet. ;) > >http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=46703&hig h >light=intercoo > >Waylon > > > - -- - ----------------------------- Oh well, I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess -Red Green http://www.redgreen.com/ - ------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 15:33:57 -0800 From: john meister Subject: Re: [db] Tweaking MB turbo diesels Black, Waylon wrote: >Factory? > > bone stock... >Where do you get the Renault TD? > > Jeep used them from '85 to '87 in the XJ's. john >WB > > >-----Original Message----- >From: john meister [mailto:dieseljohn-at-comcast.net] >Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 5:27 PM >To: Black, Waylon >Cc: 'diesel-benz-at-digest.net' >Subject: Re: [db] Tweaking MB turbo diesels > > >my '85 Cherokee with the 2.1L all -aluminum Renault turbo Diesel was >intercooled... produced >more HP then the 2.5L gas engine used that year! > >john > >Black, Waylon wrote: > > > >>If you haven't seen it yet. ;) >> >>http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=46703&hig >> >> >h > > >>light=intercoo >> >>Waylon >> >> >> >> >> > > > - -- - ----------------------------- Oh well, I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess -Red Green http://www.redgreen.com/ - ------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:32:42 -0600 From: "Black, Waylon" Subject: RE: [db] Tweaking MB turbo diesels For those of us that are Jeep stupid - is the XJ the Cherokee and the Comanche? Rate the drivetrain. Waylon - -----Original Message----- From: john meister [mailto:dieseljohn-at-comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 5:34 PM To: Black, Waylon Cc: 'diesel-benz-at-digest.net' Subject: Re: [db] Tweaking MB turbo diesels Black, Waylon wrote: >Factory? > > bone stock... >Where do you get the Renault TD? > > Jeep used them from '85 to '87 in the XJ's. john >WB > > >-----Original Message----- >From: john meister [mailto:dieseljohn-at-comcast.net] >Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 5:27 PM >To: Black, Waylon >Cc: 'diesel-benz-at-digest.net' >Subject: Re: [db] Tweaking MB turbo diesels > > >my '85 Cherokee with the 2.1L all -aluminum Renault turbo Diesel was >intercooled... produced >more HP then the 2.5L gas engine used that year! > >john > >Black, Waylon wrote: > > > >>If you haven't seen it yet. ;) >> >>http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=46703&hi g >> >> >h > > >>light=intercoo >> >>Waylon >> >> >> >> >> > > > - -- - ----------------------------- Oh well, I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess -Red Green http://www.redgreen.com/ - ------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:21:11 -0500 From: "Michael Aimino" Subject: RE: [db] Heavy vibration Definately the motor mount - the whol rubber bushing is crumbled and disintergrated. It's just metal on metal contact on the driver side. On 30 Oct 03, at 10:36, derick wrote: > Assuming it is the mount it is pretty easy. If I were you I would > replace both while you are there and check the one at the back of the > transmission. Make sure you disconnect the bottom engine shock > bushings before you jack the engine up, else you will destroy the > upper shock bushings. Do not ask me how I know this.... > > Pretty straightforward job: > > Jack up front end. > Remove Hex bolts that go thru the bottom of the chassis thru the motor > mount into the engine mount bracket. Remove the bottom engine shock > bushings. Use a floor jack with a short 2x4 board position under oil > pan and carefully jack engine up to give you clearance. Use a jack > stand to block the engine from falling. Your hands will be between the > engine mount arms and the chassis the engine is heavy your fingers are > fragile. Remove the 2 hex bolts that hold each mount to the chassis > they are at the 3 and 9 o'clock positions. Replace motor mounts. > Reverse the procedure to install. > > You may need another person with a bar or board to move the engine > back/forward/sideways so the bottom bolts align with he engine mount > armholes. > > The above procedure works with my 83 300d, your car may differ > slightly. > > Good luck, > > Derick > > -----Original Message----- > From: Aimino, Michael [mailto:maimino-at-freemarkets.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 4:45 AM > To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: [db] Heavy vibration > > Started my 300SD this morning and immediately noticed the car > vibrating much more than usual. Without having checked anything out, > I'm suspecting a motor mount bushing. > > Does any one have any advice on replacing a motor mount? Is an engine > life required? Any "gotchas" I should look for. > > Mike Aimino > Technical Writer II > FreeMarkets, Inc. > 210 Sixth Avenue > Pittsburgh, PA 15222 > (412) 297-7386 > > A.M.D.G. > > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.532 / Virus Database: 326 - Release Date: 10/27/2003 > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.532 / Virus Database: 326 - Release Date: 10/27/2003 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 23:59:55 -0800 From: john meister Subject: Re: [db] Tweaking MB turbo diesels XJ are the Cherokees MJs are the Comanches ;) what drivetrain? the Renault Diesel? or the XJ/MJ stuff? :) john Black, Waylon wrote: >For those of us that are Jeep stupid - is the XJ the Cherokee and the >Comanche? > >Rate the drivetrain. > >Waylon > >-----Original Message----- >From: john meister [mailto:dieseljohn-at-comcast.net] >Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 5:34 PM >To: Black, Waylon >Cc: 'diesel-benz-at-digest.net' >Subject: Re: [db] Tweaking MB turbo diesels > > >Black, Waylon wrote: > > > >>Factory? >> >> >> >> >bone stock... > > > >>Where do you get the Renault TD? >> >> >> >> >Jeep used them from '85 to '87 in the XJ's. > >john > > > >>WB >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: john meister [mailto:dieseljohn-at-comcast.net] >>Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 5:27 PM >>To: Black, Waylon >>Cc: 'diesel-benz-at-digest.net' >>Subject: Re: [db] Tweaking MB turbo diesels >> >> >>my '85 Cherokee with the 2.1L all -aluminum Renault turbo Diesel was >>intercooled... produced >>more HP then the 2.5L gas engine used that year! >> >>john >> >>Black, Waylon wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>>If you haven't seen it yet. ;) >>> >>>http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=46703&hi >>> >>> >g > > >>> >>> >>> >>> >>h >> >> >> >> >>>light=intercoo >>> >>>Waylon >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > - -- - ----------------------------- Oh well, I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess -Red Green http://www.redgreen.com/ - ------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 10:35:40 -0800 From: john meister Subject: Re: [db] experiments in Jeep Turbo Diesels The Renault 2.1L all-aluminum wet sleeved intercooled turbo Diesel wasn't too bad. Used a Bosch injection pump. Garret turbo. Parts were expensive and rare. $800 for the sleeve kit in 1993. Used a lot of o-rings instead of gaskets. Had a timing belt instead of a chain. The 5 speed used was lame. Hydraulic clutch cylinder always leaked/failed, the tranny wasn't very good/strong even behind an 85 hp engine. The input shaft bearing rattled in neutral... but from what I've heard most of the manual transmissions in the XJ's have been pretty lame, french junque mostly... (peugot???) transfer case was an np207, was fine. It did ok, 0-60 in around 19 to 20 seconds... 26mpg in town, 32mpg on the road (got BETTTER mileage with my '80 Olds Cutlass with the 5.7L Diesel!!! I got the Jeep in about '89 with around 70,000 miles on it... Got it on a used car lot for about $4,000 (book was over $10,000). It sounded like a rod was fixing to come through the block... turns out the vacuum pump was bad. :) I figured even if I had to retrofit a different engine in it that it was worth it, it was super clean. But the rig couldn't tow it's own shadow. I tried to tow my utililty trailer with it and it suffered greatly... would have to use low range to get it rolling then shift it into 2wd high while rolling... lots of grinding... and a real pain around here with our hills... The other problem with it was on wet roads you'd go to pull out into traffic, nail it, you'd start moving along slowly then all of a sudden the turbo would kick in and you'd be sitting there spinning your tire... then the tire would catch and you'd drop speed and the turbo would drop out and you'd be smoking and a sitting duck on a major highway... I put a limited slip in the rear in order to survive Seattle area traffic. :) I loved the Jeep despite the fact that the clutch setup and seat arrangement killed my lower back. If it would have had an automatic I'd probably still have it... I lifted it, had a winch, lots of lights... The guy that bought it ended up sinking a small fortune (actually more then I paid for the Jeep) in repairs and ended up trading it in on a S*b*r*!!!! I only wish I'd contacted him a year or two earlier... I would have bought it and dropped a Diesel with an automatic in it... It was a nice little silver XJ... My '87 XJ has 245,000 miles on the original 4.0L/AisinWarner 4 speed automatic... it's tired but holding up well... the body is excellent and very few people in their right minds would buy it with this mileage so I may have an opportunity in a year or two to experiment with a Mercedes 3.0L Turbo Diesel in an XJ.... we'll see... I think my '85 Cherokee (Pioneer) with the factory 2.1L TD had around 115,000 miles when I sold it. I'd already replaced injectors, oil pump o-rings, timing belt, alternator (several times), vacuum pump, clutch slave cylinders, valve cover gaskets(orings), water pump, power steering pump, turbo... can't remember what else now... but my 4.0L's have required less work. When the little Renault Diesel was working it was great. Drove it all the way down the Oregon/CA coast, then over to Vegas and up through Reno and back up the Cascades.... Nice rig for the trip... If only that motor had been of a better design and the transmission an automatic... :) One thing I noticed is that the engine depended heavily on that turbo... when working on it one time a vacuum hose that controlled the turbo fell off and I took it for a short test drive and almost had to get out and push it back up my driveway!!! My 4wd Diesel tractor could have beat it in a drag race or for top speed! I would really like to see a European XJ or WJ with the latest Turbo Diesels... I would love to have a WJ with the TD / auto... would be superb... Despite the "bleeding edge" french design it didn't sour me on Diesels... shoot, not even the GM 5.7L could sour me on Diesels... ;) They only brought the Turbo Diesel Jeeps into the US from '85 to '87. :( People were amazed that it had a Diesel. One guy approached me at a 7-11 and said, "sir, I think there's something wrong with your Jeep".... (it was idling... ;) rofl.... So after that I got vanity plates that said: DIESEL later, john '91 300d 2.5L Turbo Diesel Black, Waylon wrote: > Rate the diesel drivetrain. > >-----Original Message----- >From: john meister [mailto:dieseljohn-at-comcast.net] >Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 2:00 AM >To: Black, Waylon >Cc: 'diesel-benz-at-digest.net' >Subject: Re: [db] Tweaking MB turbo diesels > Black, Waylon wrote: > For those of us that are Jeep stupid - is the XJ the Cherokee and the >Comanche? > >Rate the drivetrain. > >Waylon > > > - ------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 10:46:29 -0800 From: john meister Subject: [db] Re: Merc 190D > McLay, Terry wrote: > >John, >I see you have a good looking 190D. I saw your post on Stu's list today. >You also appear to have acquired a lovely '91 300D 2.5! I have just >purchased an '86 190d 2.5 non turbo 5 spd. with about 140k miles on it. I >have just discovered oil in the coolant... so I have a new head gasket >project on my hands right away! It looks like a fairly straight forward job >for a mid level DIY person like me. I will take the opportunity to replace >a few items while I am in there. I live up in Vancouver BC and would like >to make the Seattle list gathering Nov. the 9th if my new head gasket is in >place. >Mine is a euro model without ac, cruise, etc. >Do you have any advice for a new 190D owner? > >Terry McLay >Mechanical Engineering Technologist >BC Hydro Engineering > > I had a nice looking 190d, had to sell it to get the nice looking 300d. :) The 190d was my favorite color... nice little car, but it really didn't feel like a Benz to me. Much happier with the 124 chassis. :) I'd highly recommend checking the ignition switch... they go out around 175,000 to 200,000 miles, not a pleasant experience to replace if they fail. Had to tear the dash completely apart to replace... As far as your head gasket are you sure it's the headgasket and not something else? Is your cooling system bubbling or swelling up? Is there water in your oil? Did you pressurize the cooling system and look for leaks? It would be a good thing for you if the head gasket leak wasn't a leak into one of the cylinders... water and Diesels don't mix well... rings go away quite quickly... but if you weren't seeing white smoke out the exhaust and the system wasn't swelling I'm really wondering what kind of leak you might have... hopefully it's not in the block... :( While you're in there replace the water pump/tstat and check the timing chain. I don't know much about that engine, is that a 5 cylinder? I'm passing this along to the Diesel Benz list to see if anyone else has ideas. Hope we can both make it to Drake's on Lake City Way on the 9th... it's overlooking Kenmore Air Harbor! Was over there last night dropping off Dan's coat before heading to class. :) john meister - ----------------------------- http://WAGONEERS.com/DieselBenz Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1269 **********************************