From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Fri Oct 31 21:36:54 2003 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Friday, October 31 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1270 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] Re: Merc 190D [db] Re: 190D Oil in Coolant Re: [db] Re: 190D Oil in Coolant [db] benz fest in Seattle area... Re: [db] That red color Re: [db] Re: 190D Oil in Coolant Re: [db] benz fest in Seattle area... RE: [db] benz fest in Seattle area... RE: [db] That red color Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 11:52:53 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] Re: Merc 190D On Fri, Oct 31, 2003 at 10:46:29AM -0800, john meister wrote: > As far as your head gasket are you sure it's the headgasket and not > something else? I second that. I'd be inclined to believe the -head- was the leak - the aluminum head doesn't appreciate the engine overheating, and a couple of 2.5 190Ds (and 2.2 190Ds) I've looked at for sale were for sale because the mechanic told them that the head was warped and gave them a large estimate. > I don't know much about that engine, is that a 5 cylinder? I'm passing > this along to the Diesel Benz list to see if anyone else has ideas. it's a straight five-banger. memory serving me, it's an OM602, and is the non- turbo version of your 2.5T, John. Congrats to the new owner of the 190D 2.5, five speed 190Ds are a whole lot of fun to drive :) K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (2.2, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:05:10 -0800 From: john meister Subject: [db] Re: 190D Oil in Coolant I'm still having trouble with this concept of a bad head gasket... you don't have white smoke, you don't have water in the oil, your cooling system has normal pressure, I'm assuming no power loss... The only issue is oil in the coolant, right? There are a number of possibilities for that... many without a bad head gasket involved. The thing that trips the flag for me is no water in your oil. Certainly if you had a coolant/oil leak issue when you shut down the pressure in the cooling system would seep into the oil. I'd try flushing the cooling system, replace the water pump and then pressurize the cooling system and seeing if there are any leaks. That's the best test. I saved myself the trouble of a headgasket swap by doing a pressure/leak test... turned out what looked like a headgasket was indeed a bad water pump... and it was on a Diesel... john McLay, Terry wrote: >Thanks for the prompt reply, >As far as determining the source of the oil leaking into the coolant, some >more info may help; >The engine has lots of power and no white smoke beyond the usual blue smoke >upon cold start-up. The cooling system retains full pressure and there is >never any indication of overheating. There is no evidence of water in the >oil. >If the head is warped what are the symptoms? Is it repairable if it is >warped? Once I have the head off what is the procedure to test for warpage? >Terry McLay > >-----Original Message----- >From: Kevin Pekarek [mailto:kevin-at-mordred.punk.net] >Sent: 2003, October 31 11:53 AM >To: john meister >Cc: McLay, Terry; dbl >Subject: Re: [db] Re: Merc 190D > > >On Fri, Oct 31, 2003 at 10:46:29AM -0800, john meister wrote: > > >>As far as your head gasket are you sure it's the headgasket and not >>something else? >> >> > >I second that. I'd be inclined to believe the -head- was the leak - the >aluminum head doesn't appreciate the engine overheating, and a couple of >2.5 190Ds (and 2.2 190Ds) I've looked at for sale were for sale because the >mechanic told them that the head was warped and gave them a large estimate. > > > >>I don't know much about that engine, is that a 5 cylinder? I'm passing >>this along to the Diesel Benz list to see if anyone else has ideas. >> >> > >it's a straight five-banger. memory serving me, it's an OM602, and is the >non- >turbo version of your 2.5T, John. > >Congrats to the new owner of the 190D 2.5, five speed 190Ds are a whole lot >of fun to drive :) > >K > > > - -- - ----------------------------- Oh well, I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess -Red Green http://www.redgreen.com/ - ------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:05:30 -0500 From: "Jim Steere" Subject: Re: [db] Re: 190D Oil in Coolant John....those 190D motors are notorious for oil in the cooling system. It's a leak from a gallery that feeds the overhead in the right front corner of the block.....real common to see a streak of oil down the block and nasty-looking coolant......and the car runs like a clock. I've don several of them and none had water in the oil, or any of the standard "blown head gasket" symptoms. It's just an aluminum head squirming around on top of a cast block for too many miles 7 years. I throw head gaskets in ones I buy as a matter or course. Jim Steere Everything Automotive Crystal, MI www.usedbenzparts.com (989)235-4000 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john meister" To: "McLay, Terry" Cc: ; "dbl" Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 4:05 PM Subject: [db] Re: 190D Oil in Coolant > I'm still having trouble with this concept of a bad head gasket... you don't > have white smoke, you don't have water in the oil, your cooling system > has normal pressure, I'm assuming no power loss... > > The only issue is oil in the coolant, right? > > There are a number of possibilities for that... many without a bad head > gasket involved. > The thing that trips the flag for me is no water in your oil. > Certainly if you had a coolant/oil > leak issue when you shut down the pressure in the cooling system would > seep into the oil. > > I'd try flushing the cooling system, replace the water pump and then > pressurize the cooling > system and seeing if there are any leaks. That's the best test. > > I saved myself the trouble of a headgasket swap by doing a pressure/leak > test... turned > out what looked like a headgasket was indeed a bad water pump... and it > was on a Diesel... > > john > > McLay, Terry wrote: > > >Thanks for the prompt reply, > >As far as determining the source of the oil leaking into the coolant, some > >more info may help; > >The engine has lots of power and no white smoke beyond the usual blue smoke > >upon cold start-up. The cooling system retains full pressure and there is > >never any indication of overheating. There is no evidence of water in the > >oil. > >If the head is warped what are the symptoms? Is it repairable if it is > >warped? Once I have the head off what is the procedure to test for warpage? > >Terry McLay > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Kevin Pekarek [mailto:kevin-at-mordred.punk.net] > >Sent: 2003, October 31 11:53 AM > >To: john meister > >Cc: McLay, Terry; dbl > >Subject: Re: [db] Re: Merc 190D > > > > > >On Fri, Oct 31, 2003 at 10:46:29AM -0800, john meister wrote: > > > > > >>As far as your head gasket are you sure it's the headgasket and not > >>something else? > >> > >> > > > >I second that. I'd be inclined to believe the -head- was the leak - the > >aluminum head doesn't appreciate the engine overheating, and a couple of > >2.5 190Ds (and 2.2 190Ds) I've looked at for sale were for sale because the > >mechanic told them that the head was warped and gave them a large estimate. > > > > > > > >>I don't know much about that engine, is that a 5 cylinder? I'm passing > >>this along to the Diesel Benz list to see if anyone else has ideas. > >> > >> > > > >it's a straight five-banger. memory serving me, it's an OM602, and is the > >non- > >turbo version of your 2.5T, John. > > > >Congrats to the new owner of the 190D 2.5, five speed 190Ds are a whole lot > >of fun to drive :) > > > >K > > > > > > > > -- > ----------------------------- > Oh well, > I'm a man, > but I can change, > if I have to, > I guess > -Red Green http://www.redgreen.com/ > ------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:27:50 -0800 From: john meister Subject: [db] benz fest in Seattle area... it seems that there is a major gathering of Benz owners in the Seattle area happening on the 9th of November at Drakes in Kenmore... in meeting up with Dan G I ran into a couple local Benz owners on the Stu-Ritter list... anyway, it's all benz gas & Diesel... 4pm, nov 9th at Drakes... if you don't know where that is let me know... what I'm trying to figure out is where everyone will park... :) john - -- - ----------------------------- Oh well, I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess -Red Green http://www.redgreen.com/ - ------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:42:44 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] That red color On Wed, Oct 29, 2003 at 01:12:49PM -0800, john meister wrote: > did you read about "Cracklin' Rose"? :) um, didn't Neil Diamond sing that? why do I know that? and why is that song now stuck in my head? oh, the humanity! K, desperately looking for a rock cd - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:58:40 -0800 From: john meister Subject: Re: [db] Re: 190D Oil in Coolant if he's not getting water in the oil, or water in the cylinder, has good power, cooling system isn't being stressed... whazztheproblem? just think, a rust free cooling system... ;) but then again, if it's not hard to swap the headgasket go for it... to check for head warpage use a straight edge corner to corner... my guess is it'll be fine... john Jim Steere wrote: >John....those 190D motors are notorious for oil in the cooling system. It's >a leak from a gallery that feeds the overhead in the right front corner of >the block.....real common to see a streak of oil down the block and >nasty-looking coolant......and the car runs like a clock. I've don several >of them and none had water in the oil, or any of the standard "blown head >gasket" symptoms. > >It's just an aluminum head squirming around on top of a cast block for too >many miles 7 years. I throw head gaskets in ones I buy as a matter or >course. > >Jim Steere >Everything Automotive >Crystal, MI >www.usedbenzparts.com >(989)235-4000 > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "john meister" >To: "McLay, Terry" >Cc: ; "dbl" >Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 4:05 PM >Subject: [db] Re: 190D Oil in Coolant > > > > >>I'm still having trouble with this concept of a bad head gasket... you >> >> >don't > > >>have white smoke, you don't have water in the oil, your cooling system >>has normal pressure, I'm assuming no power loss... >> >>The only issue is oil in the coolant, right? >> >>There are a number of possibilities for that... many without a bad head >>gasket involved. >>The thing that trips the flag for me is no water in your oil. >>Certainly if you had a coolant/oil >>leak issue when you shut down the pressure in the cooling system would >>seep into the oil. >> >>I'd try flushing the cooling system, replace the water pump and then >>pressurize the cooling >>system and seeing if there are any leaks. That's the best test. >> >>I saved myself the trouble of a headgasket swap by doing a pressure/leak >>test... turned >>out what looked like a headgasket was indeed a bad water pump... and it >>was on a Diesel... >> >>john >> >>McLay, Terry wrote: >> >> >> >>>Thanks for the prompt reply, >>>As far as determining the source of the oil leaking into the coolant, >>> >>> >some > > >>>more info may help; >>>The engine has lots of power and no white smoke beyond the usual blue >>> >>> >smoke > > >>>upon cold start-up. The cooling system retains full pressure and there >>> >>> >is > > >>>never any indication of overheating. There is no evidence of water in >>> >>> >the > > >>>oil. >>>If the head is warped what are the symptoms? Is it repairable if it is >>>warped? Once I have the head off what is the procedure to test for >>> >>> >warpage? > > >>>Terry McLay >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Kevin Pekarek [mailto:kevin-at-mordred.punk.net] >>>Sent: 2003, October 31 11:53 AM >>>To: john meister >>>Cc: McLay, Terry; dbl >>>Subject: Re: [db] Re: Merc 190D >>> >>> >>>On Fri, Oct 31, 2003 at 10:46:29AM -0800, john meister wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>As far as your head gasket are you sure it's the headgasket and not >>>>something else? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>I second that. I'd be inclined to believe the -head- was the leak - the >>>aluminum head doesn't appreciate the engine overheating, and a couple of >>>2.5 190Ds (and 2.2 190Ds) I've looked at for sale were for sale because >>> >>> >the > > >>>mechanic told them that the head was warped and gave them a large >>> >>> >estimate. > > >>> >>> >>> >>>>I don't know much about that engine, is that a 5 cylinder? I'm passing >>>>this along to the Diesel Benz list to see if anyone else has ideas. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>it's a straight five-banger. memory serving me, it's an OM602, and is the >>>non- >>>turbo version of your 2.5T, John. >>> >>>Congrats to the new owner of the 190D 2.5, five speed 190Ds are a whole >>> >>> >lot > > >>>of fun to drive :) >>> >>>K >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>----------------------------- >>Oh well, >>I'm a man, >>but I can change, >>if I have to, >>I guess >>-Red Green http://www.redgreen.com/ >>------------------------------ >> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >> Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > > > - -- - ----------------------------- Oh well, I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess -Red Green http://www.redgreen.com/ - ------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:14:10 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] benz fest in Seattle area... On Fri, Oct 31, 2003 at 01:27:50PM -0800, john meister wrote: > what I'm trying to figure out is where everyone will park... :) heheheh. just hope no unimogs come to the event. they might try parking on top of the littler cars there :) K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:35:11 -0800 From: "derick" Subject: RE: [db] benz fest in Seattle area... Someday I will not be working that day and can attend one of these..... - -----Original Message----- From: john meister [mailto:dieseljohn-at-comcast.net] Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 1:28 PM To: dbl Subject: [db] benz fest in Seattle area... it seems that there is a major gathering of Benz owners in the Seattle area happening on the 9th of November at Drakes in Kenmore... in meeting up with Dan G I ran into a couple local Benz owners on the Stu-Ritter list... anyway, it's all benz gas & Diesel... 4pm, nov 9th at Drakes... if you don't know where that is let me know... what I'm trying to figure out is where everyone will park... :) john - -- - ----------------------------- Oh well, I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess -Red Green http://www.redgreen.com/ - ------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.532 / Virus Database: 326 - Release Date: 10/27/2003 - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.532 / Virus Database: 326 - Release Date: 10/27/2003 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:36:45 -0800 From: "derick" Subject: RE: [db] That red color Find some AC/DC that will blow any repetitive song syndrome out your head... - -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Pekarek [mailto:kevin-at-mordred.punk.net] Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 1:43 PM To: john meister Cc: acordova-at-texas.net; diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: [db] That red color On Wed, Oct 29, 2003 at 01:12:49PM -0800, john meister wrote: > did you read about "Cracklin' Rose"? :) um, didn't Neil Diamond sing that? why do I know that? and why is that song now stuck in my head? oh, the humanity! K, desperately looking for a rock cd - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) - --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.532 / Virus Database: 326 - Release Date: 10/27/2003 - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.532 / Virus Database: 326 - Release Date: 10/27/2003 ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1270 **********************************