From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Thu Nov 6 14:43:58 2003 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Thursday, November 6 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1278 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] engine weight Re: [db] engine weight Re: [db] engine weight Re: [db] engine weight [db] 300d Tire Wear Re: [db] engine weight Re: [db] engine weight RE: [db] engine weight Re: [db] 300d Tire Wear Re: [db] 300d Tire Wear Re: [db] Maintenance Scedules Re: [db] Maintenance Scedules Re: [db] engine weight Re: [db] engine weight RE: [db] engine weight RE: [db] Maintenance Scedules Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 17:06:34 -0800 From: john meister Subject: Re: [db] engine weight It'll be around 400 to 450lbs... maybe a bit less, but not much more than that. john Michael Aimino wrote: >Any know roughly how much a 617.951 engine weighs? Thanks. > > > - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 21:04:57 -0500 From: "Michael Aimino" Subject: Re: [db] engine weight Thanks. That's actually less than I thought. On 5 Nov 03, at 17:06, john meister wrote: > It'll be around 400 to 450lbs... maybe a bit less, but not much more > than that. > > john > > Michael Aimino wrote: > > >Any know roughly how much a 617.951 engine weighs? Thanks. > > > > > > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't > rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 18:12:57 -0800 From: john meister Subject: Re: [db] engine weight well I've got specs on american iron http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/Engines/swapchart.html you can see that cast iron V6's only weigh in around 370lbs! So an inline 5 cylinder with aluminum parts is going to be less than 400lbs more then likely... john Michael Aimino wrote: >Thanks. That's actually less than I thought. > >On 5 Nov 03, at 17:06, john meister wrote: > > > >>It'll be around 400 to 450lbs... maybe a bit less, but not much more >>than that. >> >>john >> >>Michael Aimino wrote: >> >> >> >>>Any know roughly how much a 617.951 engine weighs? Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>------------------------------------------------------------------ >>john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't >> rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! >>------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > > > - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 09:20:50 CST From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: [db] engine weight And just which parts of an OM617.951 (turbodiesel from an early W126 300SD) do you think are aluminum? That's a Motor's Motor (like a man's man?) last I knew, made primarily of good old cast iron. Alec > well I've got specs on american iron > http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/Engines/swapchart.html > > you can see that cast iron V6's only weigh in around 370lbs! > > So an inline 5 cylinder with aluminum parts is going to be less than 400lbs > more then likely... > > john > > Michael Aimino wrote: > > >Thanks. That's actually less than I thought. > > > >On 5 Nov 03, at 17:06, john meister wrote: > > > > > > > >>It'll be around 400 to 450lbs... maybe a bit less, but not much more > >>than that. > >> > >>john > >> > >>Michael Aimino wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>Any know roughly how much a 617.951 engine weighs? Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 09:17:48 -0800 (PST) From: "R.A. Carfrae" Subject: [db] 300d Tire Wear Hi everyone, the driver's side front tire on my '80 300d has some pretty heavy wear on the inner part of the tire. The Psgr side is fine as are the rear tires. I'm guessing this is either camber mis-alignment or toe-in out of adjustment. Any ideas what to look for, and if I take it in for an alignment, what is the sales-person going to try to sell me but I can live without? Alex Ventura, Calif. '80 300d 276,801+ miles __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 10:27:38 -0800 From: john meister Subject: Re: [db] engine weight valve cover, oil pan, timing chain cover, front brackets... all seem to be cast aluminum... :) My 4.2L and 4.0L cast iron block/head with cast iron brackets from my Jeeps are only around 400lbs. I can look for the specs later. john acordova-at-texas.net wrote: >And just which parts of an OM617.951 (turbodiesel from an early W126 300SD) do >you think are aluminum? > >That's a Motor's Motor (like a man's man?) last I knew, made primarily of good >old cast iron. > >Alec > > > >>well I've got specs on american iron >>http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/Engines/swapchart.html >> >>you can see that cast iron V6's only weigh in around 370lbs! >> >>So an inline 5 cylinder with aluminum parts is going to be less than 400lbs >>more then likely... >> >>john >> >>Michael Aimino wrote: >> >> >> >>>Thanks. That's actually less than I thought. >>> >>>On 5 Nov 03, at 17:06, john meister wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>It'll be around 400 to 450lbs... maybe a bit less, but not much more >>>>than that. >>>> >>>>john >>>> >>>>Michael Aimino wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Any know roughly how much a 617.951 engine weighs? Thanks. >>>>> >>>>> > > > - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 13:38:04 -0500 From: Mike Frank Subject: Re: [db] engine weight Interested in bore & stroke for those engines. Were they overhead cam? Mike Frank At 01:27 PM 11/6/2003, john meister wrote: >valve cover, oil pan, timing chain cover, front brackets... all seem to be >cast aluminum... :) > >My 4.2L and 4.0L cast iron block/head with cast iron brackets from my Jeeps >are only around 400lbs. I can look for the specs later. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:41:07 -0500 From: "Aimino, Michael" Subject: RE: [db] engine weight Oh yeah, they're over head cam alright. :( - -----Original Message----- From: Mike Frank [mailto:mfrank-at-westnet.com] Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 1:38 PM To: john meister; acordova-at-texas.net Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: [db] engine weight Interested in bore & stroke for those engines. Were they overhead cam? Mike Frank At 01:27 PM 11/6/2003, john meister wrote: >valve cover, oil pan, timing chain cover, front brackets... all seem to >be >cast aluminum... :) > >My 4.2L and 4.0L cast iron block/head with cast iron brackets from my Jeeps >are only around 400lbs. I can look for the specs later. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:07:16 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] 300d Tire Wear On Thu, Nov 06, 2003 at 09:17:48AM -0800, R.A. Carfrae wrote: > Hi everyone, the driver's side front tire on my '80 > 300d has some pretty heavy wear on the inner part of > the tire. The Psgr side is fine as are the rear > tires. I'm guessing this is either camber > mis-alignment or toe-in out of adjustment. Any ideas > what to look for, and if I take it in for an > alignment, what is the sales-person going to try to > sell me but I can live without? Your guess sounds like what I would guess myself. You CAN compare toe yourself using a really REALLY long straight edge - point the car straight and use the straight edge against the side of the tire (meaning, have the straight edge run as a chord of the tire, and measure the distance between the straight edge and something on the back of the car that is in the same position on the back of the car - bottom corner of a wheel well will probably work fine. Then, go to the other side of the car and position the straight edge EXACTLY the same as on the other side, and measure again. The two measurements should be fairly similar. If they aren't, your toe is out of whack. You know the passenger side is fine. My infernal jeeps get the toe all hosed up when I go wheelin, so I quit spending the money getting it aligned for them to just set the toe, then charge me $200 cause it's a 4x4. I'd probably lean on camber though, and no, I don't have a trick way of checking that. As far as what a place is going to sell you, I don't know. I had the 190D aligned at the Big-O around the block from my office (in walnut creek), and they did a four wheel alignment, doing adjustments as required, for $99, and the car tracked straight and tire wear has been normal for the past 7000 or so miles. If the one tire is down to the wear bar, they'll try to sell you two tires - a lot of shops don't like selling just one tire anymore, and they might really fight you on the safety of driving with a tire that low on tread. If you're not at the wear bar yet, just tell them to stuff it :) Good luck... K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 14:22:38 -0500 From: Mike Frank Subject: Re: [db] 300d Tire Wear The problem is probably camber, not toe (which usually affects both sides). I recently replaced the strut mounts on my 190d, because of a similar problem. It confounded the alignment shop, which insisted that the camber was just fine. Which it probably was when the car was at rest. But the cracks in the bushing allowed the wheel to take an odd camber on turns. We'll see if wear evens out now. I don't think you have the same sort of mounts in a 123, but it's just to give you the idea that sometimes the problem isn't obvious. What I like to do with alignment shops is insist that they give me a printout of the before and after settings (all the new electronic alignment machines do this). The specifications are usually printed alongside the actual reading...then you can actually critique their work. So when you ask for this, they usually spend a bit more time and get it right. Then there was the shop that mistook my car for an 190E, and proceeded to use the specs for a 124 chassis 300E, because they're all the same... Mike Frank At 02:07 PM 11/6/2003, you wrote: >On Thu, Nov 06, 2003 at 09:17:48AM -0800, R.A. Carfrae wrote: > > Hi everyone, the driver's side front tire on my '80 > > 300d has some pretty heavy wear on the inner part of > > the tire. The Psgr side is fine as are the rear > > tires. I'm guessing this is either camber > > mis-alignment or toe-in out of adjustment. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 12:07:45 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] Maintenance Scedules On Sun, Nov 02, 2003 at 04:46:03AM -0600, Jon Filina wrote: > In addition, after you are done changing the oil, if you are not > bothered by being stopped by the old lady as you enter the house to get > cleaned up and she demands that you get "nekkid", in a tone of voice > quite different from your beginning days of being married, because you > are filthy from crawling around under the car, and you have to endure > her yelling from the laundry room about how she'll never get those nasty > oil stains out of your clothes while you spend quite a bit of time at > the bathroom sink, in your skivvies, getting the diesel oil washed off > your skin and out from under your fingernails, then the Topsider may not > be for you.... Don't have an old lady to worry about (or even a young one for that matter), but I'm sure how greasy I am after working on the cars will take a back burner to the fact that I use the spare bedroom to house car parts, have a gallon sized jug of fast orange in the bathroom, have never gotten around to hanging the pictures I framed on my walls (they're just leaning against the wall sitting on the floor), and that the fridge only ever has tartar sauce, lunch meat, mustard, and beer in it :) K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 12:23:12 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] Maintenance Scedules On Sat, Nov 01, 2003 at 04:53:38PM -0800, john meister wrote: > I'm still having a hard time understanding how you're going to get more > stuff out by drawing it through a straw topside as opposed to letting it come > out the drain plug... Well, I bought one, and decided to give it a shot. Oddly enough, it took more oil than it ever has before - I didn't have any leftover oil sitting in the last quart jug. If it took more, it must have drained more. Either that, or I have an oil consumption problem. :) > and yes, the drain plug is on the side, but if you notice, it's at the > bottom of the pan... ;) Yup, and that way's worked fine for me on other vehicles for years, and will have to because: - it's easier to get to the drain plug than the dipstick tube on a 4x4 or truck - 302 fords have a dual sump, and i haven't tried yet to see whether the topsider will drain both - the tube on the topsider isn't long enough to get in the pan on the motorhome - the 13-14 quarts the powerstroke holds won't fit in a topsider so it pretty much only gets used on the mercedes. > besides, what does a "topsider" cost? I got mine from West Marine for $50, but the trip was much more expensive than that. See, West Marine is next door to HRO. :-/ > and what happens if it self destructs in the tube like happened to one > of our own recently? ;) Well, the 601 has a really wide dipstick tube - the tube could move side to side while inside the dipstick tube. I don't know about other vehicles. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 12:32:06 -0800 From: john meister Subject: Re: [db] engine weight specs on my server no, the cam sits on the passenger side, mid-block the 4.0 & 4.2 are very similar... not sure if the specs are embedded or not: http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/Engines/FSJ-engines-ALL/Engines-FSJ.html john Mike Frank wrote: > Interested in bore & stroke for those engines. Were they overhead cam? > > Mike Frank > > At 01:27 PM 11/6/2003, john meister wrote: > >> valve cover, oil pan, timing chain cover, front brackets... all seem >> to be cast aluminum... :) >> >> My 4.2L and 4.0L cast iron block/head with cast iron brackets from my >> Jeeps >> are only around 400lbs. I can look for the specs later. > > > > > - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 12:37:45 -0800 From: john meister Subject: Re: [db] engine weight no, the camshaft on the 4.0/4.2 sits midblock, rocker arms on the head... http://www.wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/XJmotors.html can't find any of my pix with the valve cover/oil pans off... john Aimino, Michael wrote: >Oh yeah, they're over head cam alright. :( > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mike Frank [mailto:mfrank-at-westnet.com] >Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 1:38 PM >To: john meister; acordova-at-texas.net >Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >Subject: Re: [db] engine weight > > >Interested in bore & stroke for those engines. Were they overhead cam? > >Mike Frank > >At 01:27 PM 11/6/2003, john meister wrote: > > >>valve cover, oil pan, timing chain cover, front brackets... all seem to >> >> > > > >>be >>cast aluminum... :) >> >>My 4.2L and 4.0L cast iron block/head with cast iron brackets from my >> >> >Jeeps > > >>are only around 400lbs. I can look for the specs later. >> >> > > > - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:47:14 -0500 From: "Aimino, Michael" Subject: RE: [db] engine weight I thought he was asking about the 617 engine. - -----Original Message----- From: john meister [mailto:dieseljohn-at-comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 3:38 PM To: Aimino, Michael Cc: Mike Frank; acordova-at-texas.net; diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: [db] engine weight no, the camshaft on the 4.0/4.2 sits midblock, rocker arms on the head... http://www.wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/XJmotors.html can't find any of my pix with the valve cover/oil pans off... john Aimino, Michael wrote: >Oh yeah, they're over head cam alright. :( > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mike Frank [mailto:mfrank-at-westnet.com] >Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 1:38 PM >To: john meister; acordova-at-texas.net >Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >Subject: Re: [db] engine weight > > >Interested in bore & stroke for those engines. Were they overhead cam? > >Mike Frank > >At 01:27 PM 11/6/2003, john meister wrote: > > >>valve cover, oil pan, timing chain cover, front brackets... all seem >>to >> >> > > > >>be >>cast aluminum... :) >> >>My 4.2L and 4.0L cast iron block/head with cast iron brackets from my >> >> >Jeeps > > >>are only around 400lbs. I can look for the specs later. >> >> > > > - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:57:25 -0700 From: scott_haaland-at-agilent.com Subject: RE: [db] Maintenance Scedules I don't know whether I should feel sorry for you or be jealous :D - -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Pekarek [mailto:kevin-at-mordred.punk.net] Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 12:08 PM To: Jon Filina Cc: john meister; Sam Williams; 'Alec Cordova'; diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: [db] Maintenance Scedules On Sun, Nov 02, 2003 at 04:46:03AM -0600, Jon Filina wrote: > In addition, after you are done changing the oil, if you are not > bothered by being stopped by the old lady as you enter the house to get > cleaned up and she demands that you get "nekkid", in a tone of voice > quite different from your beginning days of being married, because you > are filthy from crawling around under the car, and you have to endure > her yelling from the laundry room about how she'll never get those nasty > oil stains out of your clothes while you spend quite a bit of time at > the bathroom sink, in your skivvies, getting the diesel oil washed off > your skin and out from under your fingernails, then the Topsider may not > be for you.... Don't have an old lady to worry about (or even a young one for that matter), but I'm sure how greasy I am after working on the cars will take a back burner to the fact that I use the spare bedroom to house car parts, have a gallon sized jug of fast orange in the bathroom, have never gotten around to hanging the pictures I framed on my walls (they're just leaning against the wall sitting on the floor), and that the fridge only ever has tartar sauce, lunch meat, mustard, and beer in it :) K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1278 **********************************