From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Wed Nov 12 11:18:57 2003 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, November 12 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1287 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] [Fwd: [MB] Re: Rattle at startup] Re: [db] broken timing chain pictures Re: [db] waste oil [db] Re: [MB] re:91 300D ASD problem [db] Re: bulb Re: [db] broken timing chain pictures [db] Re: [MB] the ASD module... where's Rube G. when you need him? [db] '83 240D for sale Re: [db] '83 240D for sale [db] Can anyone check out a TD in Jamestown, RI? PPI recommendation? [db] Re: [MB] Synthetic oil really synthetic? Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 18:23:24 -0800 From: john meister Subject: [db] [Fwd: [MB] Re: Rattle at startup] Looks like we've struck fear into the hearts of benz owners everywhere. :) john - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [MB] Re: Rattle at startup Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:06:26 -0500 From: Matt Blitz Reply-To: mercedes-at-mercedeslist.com To: mercedes mercedeslist.com Alright, since my friends Kevin and Andrew are so anxious to allow me to revisit the disappearance of $2K from my wallet... My 400E had developed a chain rattle (which at the time I had no idea what it was). It sounded kind of like the water pump cavitating, and since the car had been running hot, I assumed it was something related to the cooling system. I was planning on doing a radiator/water pump/fan clutch in one swell foop, but it was at about that time that I read posts about chain rattle regarding M119 engines, and thought, hey that sounds like what's going on with MY motor. I had it checked out, and thank goodness I caught it in time, as the guides were disintegrating, the tensioner was shot and the chain was waaay past stretch tolerance. With the various hoses, fluids, filters, hard parts and labor, the tab came to just under $2300 with tax. OUCH! Thanks Kevin and Andrew! :-( I'm sure the job could be done for a few hundred less, but I trust the indie who performed the work, and I believe that mine was a particularly tough case. So if you have any inkling of chain rattle, take care of it quickly. You might get away with just a tensioner. The rattle is the noise of the chain beating on the tensioner, and if you let it go too long, you'll have absolutely no hope of getting off on the cheap. I let mine go for probably around 8-10K miles and well, as I said....OUCH. Just a word from the (now) wise. Matt Blitz Monroe, NY '92 400E (WeissserBlitz) 189,000 mi '95 Subaru Legacy wagon (StickyWagon) 139,000 mi '57 Chevy 3200 pickup (Bonnie) 70,000 mi =================================================== Home: http://www.mercedeslist.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes FAQs: http://hsb.baylor.edu/html/easley/autofaqs/main.htm Archives: http://www.mercedeslist.com/mailman/private/mercedes/ Admin: mailto:mercedes-admin-at-mercedeslist.com =================================================== - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:34:45 -0500 From: "Marc Zylka" Subject: Re: [db] broken timing chain pictures When I asked about my 300D timing chain locally, they mentioned that the timing chain should be changed between 250 and 300k miles. I did have it changed shortly after 250k and had the parts returned to me. I was amazed at how little visual wear there was. I did not take any measurements. The mechanic who did the work said that for the mileage, the chain looked good. Marc Zylka. 1983 300D Turbo, 314k miles - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Chase" To: "J.B. Hebert" Cc: ; Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [db] broken timing chain pictures > Hmmm, > > Its never a bad idea to replace parts on your car as it always benefits > the service facility. The question is does it benefit the end user of > the vehicle? If someone reccomended 100k replacment of my timing chain > their credibility would be in question. Considering an 617 series > engine can easily last up to 350k miles (and even more in lots of cases) > are you saying that the vehicle will need 3.5 new timing chains in its > lifespan? > > Robert Chase > > J.B. Hebert wrote: > > > It might be a bit over-cautious, but when you consider recent events and > > the relative low cost of a new chain, it probably isn't a bad idea. > > > > J.B. > > > > At 03:35 PM 11/11/2003 -0500, you wrote: > > > >> That's what I was thinking. Recommended replacement on my 2.0 > >> liter Mazda diesel was 100K and that was a *belt*. Chain should > >> last much longer than that. > >> > >> Jim/ > >> > >> > Sure thats not 200k? > >> > > >> > 100k seems a little timing BELT like > >> > > >> > Robert Chase > >> > > >> > J.B. Hebert wrote: > >> > > >> > > Not sure what the book says, but most MB mechanics that I've > >> talked to > >> > > recommend 100k miles. > >> > > > >> > > J.B. > >> > > > >> > > At 03:22 PM 11/11/2003 -0500, you wrote: > >> > > > >> > >> Ouch is an understatement! Since we are on the subject of timing > >> > >> chains...... what is the change interval recommended by DB? My '93 > >> > >> 300D has 164K miles on it now and you guys are making me real > >> worried. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Robert Chase wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>> OUCH! > >> > >>> > >> > >>> So I think that I might want to "walk" to Costco until I get my > >> > >>> timing chain replaced :) > >> > >>> > >> > >>> Robert Chase > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> john meister wrote: > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/broken-timing-chain-300sd/ > >> > > >> > >> -- > >> Jim Hoffman > >> Oconomowoc WI > >> '39 Allis Model B > >> '53 Ford Golden Jubilee > >> '?? Bolens Huskie Gardener ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:42:19 -0500 From: "Marc Zylka" Subject: Re: [db] waste oil Home Power magazine had a great article on this a couple of issues ago. You can see the article at www.homepower.com . Click on Magazine (top left), Files & Download, Transportation, and you'll see 2 articles, one about BioDiesel. Marc Zylka 1983 300D Turbo, 314k miles - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Gilbert" To: "S.D.Byers" ; "Diesel-Benz List" Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 5:45 PM Subject: RE: [db] waste oil > SBD, > > I am new to this game, not yet having actually bought a diesel. > > But the car I am seriously considering is a 1983 300D turbo sedan, which I > guess has a OM617.952 engine. > > In what way did you convert your engine to run waste oil? > > What part of the country are you in? I am in Shoreline, WA. > > How difficult is it to ask a restaurant for waste oil? > > How do you process it? > > Contact me on or off the list! > > Thanks! > > Richard > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of S.D.Byers > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 4:23 PM > To: Diesel-Benz List > Subject: [db] waste oil > > > OK, am running my OM617 engine on soybean oil that was used to cook > falafel. Great stuff. I also got some oil from an indian restaurant and it > smells good also. > > > I do not want to use waste engine oil because of all the acids/nasty stuff > in there, though I know people who do that, sometimes cut with kerosene. > > > Now, how about waste hydraulic oil? It is nice and thin, thinner than > engine oil, probably thin enough to run as-is. I think if I filter it and > throw it in the tank I should be fine, but want to check with you guys > first if there are any chemicals in there that I do not want to burn in an > OM617. I have run small amounts of ATF fluid before as that cleans the > injector nozzles. Surely ATF is not that different from hydraulic. > > > Key observation. Big backhoes etc have 25 gallons of hydraulic oil per > change and I know a guy at a service place who throws this stuff away. > Great stuff. > > SDB ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:29:59 -0800 From: john meister Subject: [db] Re: [MB] re:91 300D ASD problem I'm wondering how the relay could have been damaged though... the transients and spikes wouldn't have hurt it because of it's inductive properties... but transistors/diodes don't do well with those... :( Would a 300E work? Not sure if my buddy's '90 300E has ASD or not... I'm sure he would let me swap parts back and forth... Guess I'll give Aurora Autowrecking a call and see what they want for those parts or if they have some ideas... Anyone know of any wrecking yards with a 124 with ASD out there? I also need the auxillary water pump, and a job. ;) Thankfully both parts can wait. parts needed: 0085452432 (ASD module) --> new part number: 0135450132 auxillary water pump 001 835 1364 for a '91 300d 2.5L TD Marte Robertson wrote: > Hi, new guy here. For what it^Rs worth, the OVP relay would be >the prime suspect in your case. Take it out of its plastic holder by rocking >it from one side to the other. It has a tab on each side, one side is >captured and the other side will release.(later model 124^Rs had a screw >holding one side) The connector itself is a tight fit on the unit but will >pull off. I have found that moisture sometimes likes hanging out in that >connector especially if the plastic cover behind the battery is damaged or >not installed quite right. > If you have a buddy that has a similar vintage 124 with the same >relay, now would be a good time to have him over for dinner. I don^Rt think >the relays are terribly expensive and we have had good success with the KAE >relays (made in Bulgaria?) > You have got an excellent wiring diagram there and it would >certainly be worth your time to trace the ^Spower out^T on circuit 87. I agree >with you that it seems to be more of an over-current protection device than >anything. > Good luck, Marte > > > > http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/124-series/asd-91.jpg - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:33:01 -0800 From: john meister Subject: [db] Re: bulb Joe, I understand... my plan is to pull the instrument cluster after all other attempts have failed and undo the bulb, and of course clean my speedo gears so my needle is solid. :) The car is too nice not to fix it properly though. And the ASD worked pretty well, so I'd like to get it working again... but for right now I'm not using black tape, but rather one of my business cards... works just as well and doesn't leave a residue. :) thanx, john Joe Salyer wrote: > John, > I think this started out with you trying to get a "warning light" > reset or at least turned off. If I am in error, forgive me. > I had a 73 Volvo wagon that my Daughters drove during college and it > had a mistaken warning light on and the only thing I could do was > place a small piece of black electrical tape over it. I know it > sounds bad, but it did solve the problem. > Joe Salyer > 560SEL - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:34:43 -0800 From: john meister Subject: Re: [db] broken timing chain pictures I had planned on changing the chain on my 190D but when we opened it up everything was clean, within specs and showing no signs of wear... guess the PO had replaced it at some point... john Marc Zylka wrote: >When I asked about my 300D timing chain locally, they mentioned that the >timing chain should be changed between 250 and 300k miles. I did have it >changed shortly after 250k and had the parts returned to me. I was amazed >at how little visual wear there was. I did not take any measurements. The >mechanic who did the work said that for the mileage, the chain looked good. > >Marc Zylka. >1983 300D Turbo, 314k miles > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Robert Chase" >To: "J.B. Hebert" >Cc: ; >Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 4:57 PM >Subject: Re: [db] broken timing chain pictures > > > > >>Hmmm, >> >>Its never a bad idea to replace parts on your car as it always benefits >>the service facility. The question is does it benefit the end user of >>the vehicle? If someone reccomended 100k replacment of my timing chain >>their credibility would be in question. Considering an 617 series >>engine can easily last up to 350k miles (and even more in lots of cases) >>are you saying that the vehicle will need 3.5 new timing chains in its >>lifespan? >> >>Robert Chase >> >>J.B. Hebert wrote: >> >> >> >>>It might be a bit over-cautious, but when you consider recent events and >>>the relative low cost of a new chain, it probably isn't a bad idea. >>> >>>J.B. >>> >>>At 03:35 PM 11/11/2003 -0500, you wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>That's what I was thinking. Recommended replacement on my 2.0 >>>>liter Mazda diesel was 100K and that was a *belt*. Chain should >>>>last much longer than that. >>>> >>>>Jim/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Sure thats not 200k? >>>>> >>>>>100k seems a little timing BELT like >>>>> >>>>>Robert Chase >>>>> >>>>>J.B. Hebert wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Not sure what the book says, but most MB mechanics that I've >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>talked to >>>> >>>> >>>>>>recommend 100k miles. >>>>>> >>>>>>J.B. >>>>>> >>>>>>At 03:22 PM 11/11/2003 -0500, you wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Ouch is an understatement! Since we are on the subject of timing >>>>>>>chains...... what is the change interval recommended by DB? My >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >'93 > > >>>>>>>300D has 164K miles on it now and you guys are making me real >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>worried. >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>Robert Chase wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>OUCH! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>So I think that I might want to "walk" to Costco until I get my >>>>>>>>timing chain replaced :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Robert Chase >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>john meister wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/broken-timing-chain-300sd/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>-- >>>>Jim Hoffman >>>>Oconomowoc WI >>>>'39 Allis Model B >>>>'53 Ford Golden Jubilee >>>>'?? Bolens Huskie Gardener >>>> >>>> > > > - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:36:59 -0800 From: john meister Subject: [db] Re: [MB] the ASD module... where's Rube G. when you need him? you know, I hadn't translated that part of the repair procedure yet... thanx... rofl... ur the 2nd person to suggest that... (I'm going to remove the bulb until I can fix it... unless I can get the ASD module out and dissect it... :) john John Freer wrote: >John, my CD says to use a small piece of black electrical tape to cover up >the light. > >John Freer >Palm Springs CA >1983 300SD 200K >2003 C240 Sports Wagon >1986 300SDL 153K > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "john meister" >To: "dbl" ; "ml" >Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 3:13 PM >Subject: [MB] the ASD module... where's Rube G. when you need him? > > > > >>The factory CD manuals are useless for troubleshooting this problem... >> >> >=================================================== >Home: http://www.mercedeslist.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes >FAQs: http://hsb.baylor.edu/html/easley/autofaqs/main.htm >Archives: http://www.mercedeslist.com/mailman/private/mercedes/ >Admin: mailto:mercedes-admin-at-mercedeslist.com >=================================================== > > > - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:49:07 -0500 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: [db] '83 240D for sale Anyone interested in my '83 240D?? 260K miles New exhaust :) New brakes :) hole in rear drivers side floor :( Make an offer! Jim/ Oconomowoc, WI (between Milwaukee & Madison) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:59:40 -0600 From: "Kaleb C. Striplin" Subject: Re: [db] '83 240D for sale got any pics? Auto or standard? Color? Jim Hoffman wrote: > Anyone interested in my '83 240D?? > > 260K miles > New exhaust :) > New brakes :) > > hole in rear drivers side floor :( > > Make an offer! > > Jim/ > > Oconomowoc, WI (between Milwaukee & Madison) > > - -- Kaleb C. Striplin/ Claremore, OK Mercedes-Benz Club of America Member Since 1991 MBZ.org Diesel/LL/123/124 List Administrator 89 560SEL, 85 380SE, 84 380SE, 82 300D, 81 500SE, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 77 300D, 76 240D Parts Cars: 84 300TD, 84 300D, 82 240D, 81 300SD, 81 300TD, 79 240D, 78 300SD, 78 300D, 77 300D 76 300D, 75 240D, 75 240D ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:51:29 -0600 From: Jan Guthrie Subject: [db] Can anyone check out a TD in Jamestown, RI? PPI recommendation? I have found an interesting TD in Jamestown, RI. Is there anyone in the area that could help by taking a drive by and check it out? Maybe take pictures? If it looks good, is there any place either nearby or in the Providence area, where it could be given a thorough PPI? Thanks dear list ....... Please forgive me for cross posting, but I would like to get an opinion quickly before I fly out ..... Thanks again - -- $:0^0:$x,88,x$:0^0:$x,88,x$:0^0:$x,88,x$:0^0:$x$:0^0:$x,88,x$: Jan Jan Guthrie Yacht Brokerage jan-at-buy-a-boat.com 262-553-1998 http://www.buy-a-boat.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:39:48 -0800 From: john meister Subject: [db] Re: [MB] Synthetic oil really synthetic? Scot Tovey wrote: >marketing practices make them appear to be selling snake oil! Further, >I >have yet to meet an Amsoil dealer that seemed to have a clue about what >was wrong with the way Amsoil marketed their oil.> > >Marshall could you clarify what marketing practices Amsoil use for those of us not exposed to their product. > >Scot. Scot, I have to agree with you, I've always been irritated by the way amsoil is marketed. I've been a dealer since 1983 but not because I wanted to run out and get rich or convert the world to synthetic. I did it so I could buy the airfilters. I didn't start using the synthetic oil until 10 years after I was a dealer. I recognized the quality of the products and filters and because there was nothing like it I got involved. I've had a few discussions with some of the marketing guys about 10 years ago when they started "cooking the specs" and making it hard to compare. They were sleazy. They quit doing those practices some time ago but the sour taste persists. I despise specmanship and FUD (ala microsoft and carfax). Another disturbing thing about the way amsoil is marketed is that it's based on the way amway was set up. HOWEVER, the big difference is amsoil dealers generally sell amsoil because they love cars and trucks and come right out and tell you that they're selling oil. I can't recall meeting an amsoil dealer selling a "dream" or hiding the fact that he or she was selling oil and filters. How many of you have been subjected to the deceptive "do you have a dream?" slop? I see the hands... ;) Amsoil continued to support their dealer network over the years and that probably hurt them. In the last decade they've provided retail on the shelf accounts and that has helped, but it's harder then heck to get into a "mcparts" store and get it on the shelf. Many of the big chains are located in some god awful parts of the country and have bureaucracies that make the US military look like a summer camp. :) It's hard for someone who is merely a gear head to make inroads into those markets.... as a result amsoil doesn't make a bigger inroad into the market. But I will say this. They have NOT sold out us dealers. They continue to hold their promises and are working out ways of making it work for everyone. Catalog, toll free numbers, websites with customer numbers, etc. My website provides lunch money every few months from sales. That's cool, I don't stock inventory, I don't run ads, and I don't run around pestering people.... it's on autopilot... and that's a new tool they set up for us. They could have sold on the internet themselves, shoot, when this all started the internet didn't exist. But they didn't, they developed a plan that didn't sell out their dealers. So, to say their marketing tactic isn't the best is to miss a very serious point. They made a promise to folks like me about how they were going to distribute their product and they've held to it. Even though it certainly cost them market share and profits. Ya gotta respect them for that. Al Amatuzio made a promise and he kept it. And if you run across a dealer who sounds like a "snake oil" salesman, let someone know. We don't need guys like that discrediting a good organization and others who sell these products because we know they're good and we use them. I'm not a dealer to make money, I'm a dealer because I believe the stuff is good and use it. I know of only a handful of amsoil dealers that are making a living selling the products. They work hard, long and seriously. They are not getting rich, but they're doing ok. They're not selling motivational tapes, t-shirts and dreams to make their living. They're selling synthetic lubes and good quality filters. If you run across a snake oil guy let amsoil corporate know, his or her dealership is revokable for violating the standards they signed up to. getting off my soapbox. ;) john > > - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1287 **********************************