From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Thu Nov 13 15:10:29 2003 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, November 12 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1288 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] Re: Questions on an '84 300D [db] "Blowby" tests [db] Re: "Blowby" tests Re: [db] "Blowby" tests [db] dino oil to Amsoil concerns? (and Jim's 240D) Re: [db] dino oil to Amsoil concerns? (and Jim's 240D) [db] Re: dino oil to Amsoil concerns? (and Jim's 240D) [db] Re: [MB] '91 300d ASD problem Re: [db] "Blowby" tests Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:46:52 -0800 From: john meister Subject: [db] Re: Questions on an '84 300D Richard wrote: John, >>The car I am looking at is a 1984 300D with 142,000 miles on it... It seems ok to me, with the exception of a few seeminly minor electrical >> >> >problems -- one of the windows does not operate, for example. > > check the switches in the console... that's usually it. I tore my '81 300d apart replacing the window reg and motor only to find the switch in the console had dirty contacts. :) >Also, the heat does not seem to get hot enough, and the center two vents >don't blow air at all. > > vacuum problems will affect the control of the center vents possibly the aux water pump, or it could be the monovalve on the firewall. On the 123 the monovalve is easy to change out first. >Besides that, there is one mechanical issue about which I am concerned: >A mechanic at Benz Friends told me of a simple test I can do to determine if >an engine is "worn out" -- tell me if you think this makes sense: >He says that, after the car has been running for a while, I should pull >over, and with the engine still running, pull the 90-degree hose that comes >out of the engine head -- the "blow by." >He says that, if I see a stream of steam under 15" long, I should be OK, but >if it is longer the engine is "worn out." >Then, he says, plug the hole with my thumb. If the engine shuts off after >less than 5 seconds, the engine is, again, "worn out." If the engine stays >on for 15 or more seconds, I am ok. >What is this test all about? > > tests crankcase pressure. tells if the rings are worn. >The car I am looking at seems to be, according to this test, "worn out:" the >"steam stream" is so long it hits the hood, and when I plug the hole with my >thumb, the car shuts down within a few seconds (3-5). > > I think we should run this by the lists... Was the car completely warmed up? >Please help me understand what this all means! >Thanks! >Richard > > john - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:58:48 -0600 From: "Richard Gilbert" Subject: [db] "Blowby" tests > I think we should run this by the lists... Was the car completely > warmed up? Yes, it was actually earlier in the summer, and I had driven it 15-20 minutes, including on I-5... Other MB contacts had these comments: - --------------------------------------------------- "These tests do serve some purpose, but you cannot judge a car by them. Simply using Mobil 1 will decrease blowby enormously. Blowby is caused by air passing by the rings during compression, so this test would be applicable assuming the PO had a oil change regimen that included Mobil 1 and appropriately times oil changes. Otherwise, look at the oil pressure." - --------------------------------------------------- "The thumb test is extremely inaccurate and not always correct. A slightly more accurate test for compression would be if the car starts easily in cold weather. And even then, if the rings are all carboned up from the car not having been driven hard, it is still a very inaccurate test of the engine's condition." - --------------------------------------------------- "...just because it fails this test or passes this one doesn't tell you anything about blow-by. The only way to be absolutely certain is to tear down the engine and check. But if a car has good maintenance records, starts up, runs, and drives well, chances are pretty good that it is alright." - --------------------------------------------------- "From my experience I have found that Mobil 1 and Delvac 1 have improved many aspects of the engines I have put it into. Mobil/Delvac 1 do increase compression, and clean out engine buildup, which also increases compression and reduces wear. Blowby is caused by air passing by the piston rings during compression, which makes you also lose compression. So, increasing compression both from better lubricity and removal of buildup will reduce blowby. I bought my 83 300CD with non-synthetic oil and it generated HUGE amounts of blowby, I switched to Delvac 1, and now, no more." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:10:17 -0800 From: john meister Subject: [db] Re: "Blowby" tests the only true test would be to do a compression check on the engine. if the engine had been run on dino oil it's possible that the rings are sticking... switching to a high detergent oil or synthetic might free them up. I think the best test is to see if the engine starts on a cold day... that's the best test I can think of... of course that might be hard to come by in Seattle right now... ;) btw, what is that bright object in the sky? Isn't this November??? That's really gonna screw up the PNW Rain Festival... ;) john Richard Gilbert wrote: >>I think we should run this by the lists... Was the car completely >>warmed up? >> >> > >Yes, it was actually earlier in the summer, and I had driven it 15-20 >minutes, including on I-5... > >Other MB contacts had these comments: > >--------------------------------------------------- >"These tests do serve some purpose, but you cannot judge a car by them. >Simply using Mobil 1 will decrease blowby enormously. Blowby is caused by >air passing by the rings during compression, so this test would be >applicable assuming the PO had a oil change regimen that included Mobil 1 >and appropriately times oil changes. Otherwise, look at the oil pressure." >--------------------------------------------------- >"The thumb test is extremely inaccurate and not always correct. A slightly >more accurate test for compression would be if the car starts easily in cold >weather. And even then, if the rings are all carboned up from the car not >having been driven hard, it is still a very inaccurate test of the engine's >condition." >--------------------------------------------------- >"...just because it fails this test or passes this one doesn't tell you >anything about blow-by. The only way to be absolutely certain is to tear >down the engine and check. But if a car has good maintenance records, >starts up, runs, and drives well, chances are pretty good that it is >alright." >--------------------------------------------------- >"From my experience I have found that Mobil 1 and Delvac 1 have improved >many aspects of the engines I have put it into. Mobil/Delvac 1 do increase >compression, and clean out engine buildup, which also increases compression >and reduces wear. Blowby is caused by air passing by the piston rings during >compression, which makes you also lose compression. So, increasing >compression both from better lubricity and removal of buildup will reduce >blowby. I bought my 83 300CD with non-synthetic oil and it generated HUGE >amounts of blowby, I switched to Delvac 1, and now, no more." > > > > - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:52:09 -0500 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] "Blowby" tests You know, Perhaps I'm just weird (ok ok thats a given) but I have never performed any of the "tests" when shopping for a car. I have yet to purchase one with any big problems. Car's generally talk to you and tell you things about themselves if you listen well enough. My technique is to drive several cars like the car your interested in before hand in various levels of condition. Usually as part of shopping and negotiation process this happens without any effort. You can usually spot a car with problems within the first few seconds of a test drive if you have already driven several cars like it. Robert Chase Richard Gilbert wrote: >>I think we should run this by the lists... Was the car completely >>warmed up? > > > Yes, it was actually earlier in the summer, and I had driven it 15-20 > minutes, including on I-5... > > Other MB contacts had these comments: > > --------------------------------------------------- > "These tests do serve some purpose, but you cannot judge a car by them. > Simply using Mobil 1 will decrease blowby enormously. Blowby is caused by > air passing by the rings during compression, so this test would be > applicable assuming the PO had a oil change regimen that included Mobil 1 > and appropriately times oil changes. Otherwise, look at the oil pressure." > --------------------------------------------------- > "The thumb test is extremely inaccurate and not always correct. A slightly > more accurate test for compression would be if the car starts easily in cold > weather. And even then, if the rings are all carboned up from the car not > having been driven hard, it is still a very inaccurate test of the engine's > condition." > --------------------------------------------------- > "...just because it fails this test or passes this one doesn't tell you > anything about blow-by. The only way to be absolutely certain is to tear > down the engine and check. But if a car has good maintenance records, > starts up, runs, and drives well, chances are pretty good that it is > alright." > --------------------------------------------------- > "From my experience I have found that Mobil 1 and Delvac 1 have improved > many aspects of the engines I have put it into. Mobil/Delvac 1 do increase > compression, and clean out engine buildup, which also increases compression > and reduces wear. Blowby is caused by air passing by the piston rings during > compression, which makes you also lose compression. So, increasing > compression both from better lubricity and removal of buildup will reduce > blowby. I bought my 83 300CD with non-synthetic oil and it generated HUGE > amounts of blowby, I switched to Delvac 1, and now, no more." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:04:57 GMT From: mjmason-at-juno.com Subject: [db] dino oil to Amsoil concerns? (and Jim's 240D) John (& listers): I've followed the Amsoil talk for years and think I'm ready to take the plunge... with my current car, any unlikely trouble is no great loss. I think this has been addressed but can't find an answer at the corporate site or in the archives... Should I take any preparatory steps when switching from dino oil (and what I'm sure must be a filthy-under-the-valve-cover gasser) to Amsoil, and are there any risks I should be aware of as it gets used to the switch? (Since I've thought about going synthetic I've been weaning it with Valvoline MaxLife for the last 3 oil changes or so... does this help or hinder?). TIA - Matt in IL p.s. -- Hey Jim, Oconomowoc's not too bad a drive for me... please, send some details on that 240D! (I miss my old one...) ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:22:53 -0800 From: john meister Subject: Re: [db] dino oil to Amsoil concerns? (and Jim's 240D) I would NOT recommend running a cleaner first. The amsoil, or most any modern synthetic, will clean the engine out in due course. I would recommend changing the filters a bit more often initially as the engine will start to be cleaned out as you use the synthetic... but remember, it's not like pressure-washing the inside of the engine, so if you take the engine apart later it may not be as spotless as you'd like to think. The years of varnish and crud will remain in that engine long after making the switch. The worst cases of crud and varnish I've found are in engines running pennzoil and valvoline... I guess any of the pennslyvannia crud, er crude, because of the ash, from what I've heard... So, basically, change the filter after a thousand miles after switching over to a synthetic... john mjmason-at-juno.com wrote: >John (& listers): > >I've followed the Amsoil talk for years and think I'm ready to take the plunge... with my current car, any unlikely trouble is no great loss. I think this has been addressed but can't find an answer at the corporate site or in the archives... Should I take any preparatory steps when switching from dino oil (and what I'm sure must be a filthy-under-the-valve-cover gasser) to Amsoil, and are there any risks I should be aware of as it gets used to the switch? (Since I've thought about going synthetic I've been weaning it with Valvoline MaxLife for the last 3 oil changes or so... does this help or hinder?). > >TIA - Matt in IL > >p.s. -- Hey Jim, Oconomowoc's not too bad a drive for me... please, send some details on that 240D! (I miss my old one...) > > >________________________________________________________________ >The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! >Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! >Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > > - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:07:40 -0800 From: john Subject: [db] Re: dino oil to Amsoil concerns? (and Jim's 240D) I may have already replied to this... so I'll make it short. Don't do anything special, no cleaners, etc... just switch, but change the oil filter after 1,000 miles... and if you don't mind supporting an under/unemployed UNIX sys admin by using customer number 283461 I'd truly appreciate it. :) john meister At 12:04 PM 11/12/2003, mjmason-at-juno.com wrote: >John (& listers): > >I've followed the Amsoil talk for years and think I'm ready to take the >plunge... with my current car, any unlikely trouble is no great loss. I >think this has been addressed but can't find an answer at the corporate >site or in the archives... Should I take any preparatory steps when >switching from dino oil (and what I'm sure must be a >filthy-under-the-valve-cover gasser) to Amsoil, and are there any risks I >should be aware of as it gets used to the switch? (Since I've thought >about going synthetic I've been weaning it with Valvoline MaxLife for the >last 3 oil changes or so... does this help or hinder?). > >TIA - Matt in IL > >p.s. -- Hey Jim, Oconomowoc's not too bad a drive for me... please, send >some details on that 240D! (I miss my old one...) > > >________________________________________________________________ >The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! >Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! >Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! - ------------------------------------------------------------------ john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:12:44 -0800 From: john meister Subject: [db] Re: [MB] '91 300d ASD problem I'll dig up the logic probe I built more years ago then I can remember... Was wondering how I was going to read those codes. :) Thanx for the info! Will take pictures and share with the list what I find... give me a day or two, teaching tonight... Appreciate the help Stu... I need to keep my 300d in tip top shape in case I need to sell it. Not sure how much longer before I find another job. I'd hate to give up this 124 Diesel, they're scarce out here in these parts. I am happy that my wife suggested selling it instead of my '83 J10 Stepside... for years she always put that one up on the block whenever we needed cash for the house or something. ;) I think getting the '99 WJ (grand chero) leather seats for it was a good investment... just need to get it back together so I can use it. As a backup plan I'm trading one of my cameras for a nice '79 J10 Golden Eagle just in case I have to sell the 300d... we'll see... lots of folks are praying and I've been getting interviews, but this job market (high tech IT/UNIX type) is really tough... I've even thought about going back into mechanical work... not sure if my back is up to it though... sitting at the keyboard too many years. ;) later, john Stu Ritter wrote: > john meister wrote: > >> Tell me more about these ASR codes... No job right now, no money to >> take it somewhere and have it read, >> if it requires a special tool I'm outta luck for now. :) > > > OOps, should have looked at the subject, eh? :-( > > Also we are dealing with ASD and not ASR. > > OK, here is what you do. > You will need a logic probe (I think they measure around 5 volts on > and off) > Hook the probe to the battery for power. > Read between terminals 5 and 1. Jumper into 1 and probe into 5. > These are in the diagnostic block on the right side firewall. > There are 8 codes available. > Connect the probe and jumper tgether for 2-3 seconds and then the > probe will flash the codes. Hold the probe and the jumper together > for 6-8 seconds and you will clear the code(s). > I don't have the DTC (diagnostic trouble codes) guide at home but > can probably get it off the startekinfo web site if you can't get access > to it. > > Stu > > =================================================== > Home: http://www.mercedeslist.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes > FAQs: http://hsb.baylor.edu/html/easley/autofaqs/main.htm > Archives: http://www.mercedeslist.com/mailman/private/mercedes/ > Admin: mailto:mercedes-admin-at-mercedeslist.com > =================================================== > - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 16:27:00 -0500 From: Mike Frank Subject: Re: [db] "Blowby" tests What's the thumb test? Mike Frank At 01:58 PM 11/12/2003, Richard Gilbert wrote: >"The thumb test is extremely inaccurate and not always correct. ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1288 **********************************