From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Thu Dec 4 13:51:15 2003 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Thursday, December 4 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1306 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] Hood cable Woes Re: [MB] Re: [db] 240D question - clutch bleeding - POST MORTEM SUBSCRIPT (PMS) Re: [db] Hood cable Woes Re: [db] Hood cable Woes Re: [MB] Re: [db] 240D question - clutch bleeding - POST MORTEM Fw: [db] It runs differently now Re: Fw: [db] It runs differently now Re: [db] Hood cable Woes Re: Fw: [db] It runs differently now [db] w210 front brake pads Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:59:02 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] Hood cable Woes On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 03:18:04PM -0800, DerickAA wrote: > Faced with a new challenge, hood cable broke off on my 190d. I pulled it all > the way out and it appears that it broke very close to the hood latch. > I am trying to figure out a way to get the hood open without destroying > anything. Cannot go in from the bottom radiator is in the way. I am thinking > I will have to go through the front grill somehow and probably have to drill > a hole and activate the latch fro there. Looking at red real quick it looks like you are up a creek in a chicken wire canoe. Without my w201 CD handy, it looks like dropping the bumper will give you (somewhat) easy access to the two screws that hold the grill on at the upper corners of the grill. Dropping the bumper does not seem like an easy task however. Assuming the grille isn't on the vehicle, it still looks like you'll need to use a large screwdriver to attack the primary release so that you can use the normal secondary release. The easiest way will probably be to use John's son's method - attack the grille with a sawzall or otherwise get it out of the way. That done, it becomes relatively simple. Forgetting the sawzall, you could probably access the passenger side screw through the hole in the bumper using a mile of extension with a universal joint at the end. (If you had an endoscope, you could hunt down the other side this way as well.) I was able to see whereabouts the passenger side screw was through this hole just glancing up at it. Another look at red showed that the driver's side would be a little tough to get to. The grille is loose enough on red that you can undo the screws holding the trim for the headlights without popping the hood (using a gear wrench, one of those racheting box wrench things), which could possibly allow you to get the headlight mechanism out of the way, then have access to the screws at the top of the grille. I've never had to replace a headlight on this car, so I don't know what else is entailed in getting the headlights out, but even with the hood up, I could only find one screw holding that assembly in, and it was the one on the trim piece. Odd, I never considered an endoscope a mechanic's tool until I became a part of this list. :) Good luck, and if you need pictures to compare against, let me know. I have a 190D and access to a digital camera. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:19:15 -0600 From: "Vernon Tuck" Subject: Re: [MB] Re: [db] 240D question - clutch bleeding - POST MORTEM SUBSCRIPT (PMS) Hello to everybody in Mercedez Benz 240D Land... Perhaps you will remember me gnashing my teeth (and transmission gears) last week about my woeful attempts to bleed the hydraulic clutch system on my 240D. After numerous efforts - all fruitless - yea, verily, as barren as the gobi desert, to bleed the system, with all tricks of the trade, both published and private, today, I resorted to technology, to-wit: Last night, at the grocery store, for a buck ninety nine, I bought a "made in India" stainless steel pepper shaker. This morning, at my local Ace Hardware store, I bought: a) a metallic valve stem (like tubeless tires use); b) a metallic hose barb (both with 1/8 pipe thread); c) 4 3/8" O-rings; d) 4 brass nuts. e) 2 expanding clamps. In the top and bottom of the pepper shaker I drilled 3/8" dia. holes. I threaded the hose barb into the bottom and the valve stem into the top. I sealed both of these with the O rings on either side of the shaker and tightened 'em down with the brass nuts. The top of the shaker had little holes in it in the shape of a P (for "pepper"). I covered these holes with some magnetic strips with adhesive on the back. I secured my new pressure bleeder in an upright position inside the engine bay. Using a turkey juice sucker upper I schlupped up the fluid from the reservoir and dumped it into the cannister. When the cannister was full I put on the top. I taped around the crack between the cannister and the lid with black electrical tape. I attached a section of clear plastic hose (with expanding clamp) to the bottom of the cannister vis-a-vis the hose barb. I attached the other end of the hose (with expanding clamp) to the bleeder nipple on the clutch slave cylinder. I opened the clutch slave cylinder bleeder nipple I started my air compressor and regulated it down to 10 psi. I pumped 10 psi air into the cannister through the valve stem. Magically, air bubbles, then fluid, began to fill the brake/clutch reservoir. I continued applying air to my more-or-less (mostly less than) air-tight pepper shaker cum pressure bleeder, until the reservoir was full! With feverish anticipation I attempted the clutch. Wonky as a wet noodle! Arghhhhh! I came inside and drank a bottle of wine and took a couple of sedatives... I called "the Benz Bin" and verified that the parts I installed into the car (clutch master and slave cylinders) were the RIGHT parts. The were. (Technical note: During the 1982 year the part number changed for the clutch slave cylinder. I don't know what the differences were, if any, between these two parts. In any event, I had the "right" part). During that conversation with the parts guy, he gratuitously suggested that if I'd replaced the clutch disk (I did!) that PERHAPS I had put it in BACKWARDS! He claims that this can be done. And that the clutch won't engage in such case. This comment made the wine run cold in my veins. I did the clutch work about a year ago and only now got back to work on the car. When the guy told me this horrid things, I remembered, like a baaaad dream, lying under the car, sand in my eyes and hair, WONDERING WHICH WAY THE RAISED FLANGE in the clutch went. However, now I've forgotten which way I installed it - or why I chose the way I did. In any event, my new theory is that the clutch disk is installed backwards. I have started the car. There is just the slightest hint of "clutch pressure" all the way at the floor. I have adjusted the clutch-takeup rod both up and down. The teeny clutch pressure I do have seems to be best when the rod is adjusted for maximum length. The alternate theory to the clutch being wrong side out, is that the activating rod is too short. Of course, I'd rather believe this than face having to remove the )(#*-at-&)(*#$& transmission again. Tomorrow I'm gonna drain the clutch system and remove the slave cylinder. I guess I'll try to stick a phillips head screwdriver into the hole and see if I can feel the clutch disengage. I have started the car. It runs. There is no noise coming from the bell housing. It goes into gear. The rear wheels (which are in the air), turn. When I press the brake this kills the engine. Therefore, the clutch is not engaging. If anybody's "been there and done that" I eagerly await any words of wisdom. Are Ben Dare and Dunn Datt members of this list? Oat Willie - "Onward through the fog!" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:22:15 -0600 From: "Vernon Tuck" Subject: Re: [db] Hood cable Woes Thank Goodness this hasn't happened (yet) on my 240D. But if (when) it does, what is the drill for a 240D? Vernon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:39:33 -0500 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] Hood cable Woes Yes, I'm sure a drill will be involved ;) Jim/ > Thank Goodness this hasn't happened (yet) on my 240D. > > But if (when) it does, what is the drill for a 240D? > > Vernon > - -- Jim Hoffman Oconomowoc WI '39 Allis Model B '53 Ford Golden Jubilee '?? Bolens Huskie Gardener ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:42:15 -0500 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [MB] Re: [db] 240D question - clutch bleeding - POST MORTEM As I recall, Vern isn't the only dude to have trouble with this "bleeding the hydraulic clutch system"... Why do the half dozen of you that own these things in the states love them so much?? I think I'd be GLAD to have an automatic! ;) Jim/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 21:35:57 -0500 From: "Marc Zylka" Subject: Fw: [db] It runs differently now Sorry, I meant to include the "list". Marc. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Zylka" Alec, thanks for the info. I re-greased all of the "ball" type connectors on the linkage. I also took the top of the black box on top of the valve cover off and used WD-40 on the 2 small values and put grease on the plastic piece they operate with. It seems a little better but it seems to be "trying" for more. In 3rd gear with hard acceleration, it intermittently tries to run better. There must be a drop of water in one of the vacuum lines. Also, during the short pulse of power I can hear a clicking noise in the left side of the dashboard that I've never heard before. Maybe a relay, I don't know. It might work itself out. I am driving the car, it's just real slow. Marc Zylka Haw River, NC '83 300D Turbo 314k miles. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alec Cordova" > To: > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 7:43 PM > Subject: RE: [db] It runs differently now > > > > Re-check vacuum lines and all the parts in the accelerator linkage. You > > might try spraying some WD-40 (or more of that engine cleaner) at the > vacuum > > lines and fittings while the engine is running, and listen for any > different > > sounds from the motor if the spray gets sucked into the intake manifold. > > Hmm. That might not be viable on a diesel or on a car with vacuum going > off > > to so many subsystems. > > > > Either way, re-check vacuum and check for the Bowden cable, which looks > like > > just another rod in that linkage, ties into the whole accelerator linkage > > nest on one end, and goes down to the tranny with its other end. > > > > Alec Cordova > > Taylor, Texas > > 89 300CE, 165K ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 08:20:20 -0500 From: Paul Brown Subject: Re: Fw: [db] It runs differently now I think that these joints are supposed to be "greased" with ATF. Marc Zylka wrote: >Sorry, I meant to include the "list". > >Marc. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Marc Zylka" > > > Alec, thanks for the info. I re-greased all of the "ball" type connectors >on the linkage. I also took the top of the black box on top of the valve >cover off and used WD-40 on the 2 small values and put grease on the plastic >piece they operate with. It seems a little better but it seems to be >"trying" for more. In 3rd gear with hard acceleration, it intermittently >tries to run better. There must be a drop of water in one of the vacuum >lines. Also, during the short pulse of power I can hear a clicking noise in >the left side of the dashboard that I've never heard before. Maybe a relay, >I don't know. It might work itself out. I am driving the car, it's just >real slow. > > Marc Zylka >Haw River, NC > '83 300D Turbo 314k miles. > >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Alec Cordova" >>To: >>Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 7:43 PM >>Subject: RE: [db] It runs differently now >> >> >>>Re-check vacuum lines and all the parts in the accelerator linkage. You >>>might try spraying some WD-40 (or more of that engine cleaner) at the >>> >>vacuum >> >>>lines and fittings while the engine is running, and listen for any >>> >>different >> >>>sounds from the motor if the spray gets sucked into the intake manifold. >>>Hmm. That might not be viable on a diesel or on a car with vacuum going >>> >>off >> >>>to so many subsystems. >>> >>>Either way, re-check vacuum and check for the Bowden cable, which looks >>> >>like >> >>>just another rod in that linkage, ties into the whole accelerator >>> >linkage > >>>nest on one end, and goes down to the tranny with its other end. >>> >>>Alec Cordova >>>Taylor, Texas >>>89 300CE, 165K ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 11:23:35 -0800 From: john meister Subject: Re: [db] Hood cable Woes On many of the jeeps I've found a long thin screw driver to be superior to a sawzall for hood release... don't have a 190d handy to look... might contact Phil Smart and ask the parts guy if he knows any tricks... they are quite helpful there, service manager Ed has helped me before. I like the attitude of the folks there... never used the service dept, but they seem to be customer oriented... john Kevin Pekarek wrote: >On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 03:18:04PM -0800, DerickAA wrote: > > >>Faced with a new challenge, hood cable broke off on my 190d. I pulled it all >>the way out and it appears that it broke very close to the hood latch. >>I am trying to figure out a way to get the hood open without destroying >>anything. Cannot go in from the bottom radiator is in the way. I am thinking >>I will have to go through the front grill somehow and probably have to drill >>a hole and activate the latch fro there. >> >> > >Looking at red real quick it looks like you are up a creek in a chicken wire >canoe. Without my w201 CD handy, it looks like dropping the bumper will >give you (somewhat) easy access to the two screws that hold the grill on >at the upper corners of the grill. Dropping the bumper does not seem like an >easy task however. > >Assuming the grille isn't on the vehicle, it still looks like you'll need >to use a large screwdriver to attack the primary release so that you can use >the normal secondary release. > >The easiest way will probably be to use John's son's method - attack the grille >with a sawzall or otherwise get it out of the way. That done, it becomes >relatively simple. > >Forgetting the sawzall, you could probably access the passenger side screw >through the hole in the bumper using a mile of extension with a universal >joint at the end. (If you had an endoscope, you could hunt down the other side >this way as well.) I was able to see whereabouts the passenger side screw was >through this hole just glancing up at it. > >Another look at red showed that the driver's side would be a little tough >to get to. The grille is loose enough on red that you can undo the screws >holding the trim for the headlights without popping the hood (using a >gear wrench, one of those racheting box wrench things), which could possibly >allow you to get the headlight mechanism out of the way, then have access to >the screws at the top of the grille. I've never had to replace a headlight >on this car, so I don't know what else is entailed in getting the headlights >out, but even with the hood up, I could only find one screw holding that >assembly in, and it was the one on the trim piece. > >Odd, I never considered an endoscope a mechanic's tool until I became a part >of this list. :) > >Good luck, and if you need pictures to compare against, let me know. I have >a 190D and access to a digital camera. > >K > > > - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 18:08:49 -0500 From: "Marc Zylka" Subject: Re: Fw: [db] It runs differently now Interesting, using ATF for the linkage joints. That would seem thin but I'll try it. An update on my problem. The clicking I hear in the dash is a relay. There is a vacuum line running from the device on top of the injection pump to some sort of valve next to the brake booster. It seems like the vacuum moves the switch which activates the relay. When I hear the click of the relay, I loose power. But, the problem is slowly going away. Returning from work, it occurred rarely. My question now is, what is the relay activating that is causing the power loss? Thanks, Marc Zylka '83 300D Turbo 314k miles - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Brown" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 8:20 AM Subject: Re: Fw: [db] It runs differently now > > > > > > Alec, thanks for the info. I re-greased all of the "ball" type connectors > >on the linkage. I also took the top of the black box on top of the valve > >cover off and used WD-40 on the 2 small values and put grease on the plastic > >piece they operate with. It seems a little better but it seems to be > >"trying" for more. In 3rd gear with hard acceleration, it intermittently > >tries to run better. There must be a drop of water in one of the vacuum > >lines. Also, during the short pulse of power I can hear a clicking noise in > >the left side of the dashboard that I've never heard before. Maybe a relay, > >I don't know. It might work itself out. I am driving the car, it's just > >real slow. > > > > Marc Zylka > >Haw River, NC > > '83 300D Turbo 314k miles. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 13:33:05 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Welty Subject: [db] w210 front brake pads i need to do the pads on my wife's 1996 E300D before we drive it to florida for christmas. rusty doesn't have the manuals for the w210 yet, so i'm doing this without much research. the rear pads look like the traditional ate pad with sensors, and probably won't be a big deal; i've seen millions of these calipers, on Saabs, Alfas, and Benzes. the front pads look like something entirely different. does anyone have any helpful information or clues on this end of the car? i've not really inspected a caliper closely, so i may be panicing prematurely, but then, what better time to panic. thanks, richard - -- Richard Welty rwelty-at-suespammers.org Averill Park Networking rwelty-at-averillpark.net Unix, Linux, IP Network Engineering, Security rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com 518-573-7592 ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1306 **********************************