From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Tue Dec 16 20:06:17 2003 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, December 17 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1317 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] re: [MB] Speedo Pix [db] Ignition lock problem Re: [db] Ignition lock problem Re: [db] 240D timing chain stretch Re: [db] Ignition lock problem Re: [db] re: [MB] Speedo Pix [db] leaning tower of 190D RE: [db] Ignition lock problem RE: [db] Ignition lock problem RE: [db] Ignition lock problem [db] Emissions Re: [db] leaning tower of 190D Re: [db] Ignition lock problem Re: [db] Emissions Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:46:48 -0800 From: john meister Subject: [db] re: [MB] Speedo Pix I miss the autobahn... :) some of these pix don't look like they were taken on the autobahn though... any idea of what country? speedo's show up in klicks so it's not the states... john > To: "RE Mercedes List" > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 11:54 PM > Subject: [MB] Speedo Pix > > > >>> Ref: http://www.500sec.com/speedopix.html >>> >>> Found an interesting 500SEC site (above) which includes a page of >>> pictures of speedometers while driving. The top row included: >>> >>> 560SEC 220km/h >>> E55AMG 270km/h >>> S55AMG 280km/h >>> W220 Brabus 310km/h >>> SLK 250km/h - -- ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ** trust Jesus ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The revolt is underway, the penguin is coming... I can hear the slap of his little feet... (using Mozilla Thunderbird on SUSE 9.0 Linux... and loving it...) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:55:11 -0500 From: Mike Frank Subject: [db] Ignition lock problem I'm sure the answer to this is archived somewhere...but...I'm having trouble with the ignition switch in my '87 190d. Every once in a while, it becomes impossible to turn. By fiddling and jiggling, I can get it to work, after which it will be ok for a while. Is my ignition switch in need of replacement? how hard a job? Thanks, Mike Frank ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:59:01 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] Ignition lock problem On Tue, Dec 16, 2003 at 02:55:11PM -0500, Mike Frank wrote: > I'm sure the answer to this is archived somewhere...but...I'm having > trouble with the ignition switch in my '87 190d. Every once in a while, it > becomes impossible to turn. By fiddling and jiggling, I can get it to work, > after which it will be ok for a while. Is my ignition switch in need of > replacement? how hard a job? Sounds like it needs replacement to me. If you can still turn it, positioning it with the key in between the first and second positions (IIRC) opens a hole that you stick a pin/paperclip/etc in and pull the sucker out. If you can't turn it, you're dropping the steering column, and attacking it with a sawzall. You definately want to fix it soon. I'll let John and Derick fill you in on specific details, since both have had to do this fairly recently. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:05:28 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] 240D timing chain stretch On Tue, Dec 16, 2003 at 12:26:46PM -0600, acordova-at-texas.net wrote: > I believe the official acceptable limit is ten degrees, although that may > officially require use of some offset keys somewhere in the cam mechanism to > compensate. Five or six degrees realistic max is a good value to use. I believe the w201 CD I have recommends changing the timing chain in a 601 when the stretch passes four degrees. I don't know what the "book" would say for an OM616 or OM617, but with the recent events of a timing chain letting go on the freeway in an OM617, I would probably err on the side of changing it too soon :) K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:15:49 -0800 From: john meister Subject: Re: [db] Ignition lock problem Yes, get that FIXED ASAP... do NOT delay... you will not like the results... it's an ugly, ugly experience if you can't turn it... get a new switch from the dealer or rusty or anyone, but get that old switch out ASAP... turn it to the designated position and fish it out... it'd be less hassle to rent a car for a month then to have to take that dash apart again... :) john Kevin Pekarek wrote: > On Tue, Dec 16, 2003 at 02:55:11PM -0500, Mike Frank wrote: > >>I'm sure the answer to this is archived somewhere...but...I'm having >>trouble with the ignition switch in my '87 190d. Every once in a while, it >>becomes impossible to turn. By fiddling and jiggling, I can get it to work, >>after which it will be ok for a while. Is my ignition switch in need of >>replacement? how hard a job? > > > Sounds like it needs replacement to me. If you can still turn it, positioning it > with the key in between the first and second positions (IIRC) opens a hole that > you stick a pin/paperclip/etc in and pull the sucker out. > > If you can't turn it, you're dropping the steering column, and attacking it > with a sawzall. You definately want to fix it soon. > > I'll let John and Derick fill you in on specific details, since both have > had to do this fairly recently. > > K > - -- ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ** trust Jesus ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The revolt is underway, the penguin is coming... I can hear the slap of his little feet... (using Mozilla Thunderbird on SUSE 9.0 Linux... and loving it...) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 16:44:27 CST From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: [db] re: [MB] Speedo Pix I like this one: http://www.500sec.com/images/speedopix/200d160kmh.JPG A W123 200D at 100mph with a dead tach. Alec > I miss the autobahn... :) > some of these pix don't look like they were taken on the autobahn > though... any idea of what country? speedo's show up in klicks so it's > not the states... > > john > > > > To: "RE Mercedes List" > > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 11:54 PM > > Subject: [MB] Speedo Pix > > > > > >>> Ref: http://www.500sec.com/speedopix.html > >>> > >>> Found an interesting 500SEC site (above) which includes a page of > >>> pictures of speedometers while driving. The top row included: > >>> > >>> 560SEC 220km/h > >>> E55AMG 270km/h > >>> S55AMG 280km/h > >>> W220 Brabus 310km/h > >>> SLK 250km/h > > -- > ---- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** john-at-wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - > where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ** trust Jesus ** > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The revolt is underway, the penguin is coming... > I can hear the slap of his little feet... > (using Mozilla Thunderbird on SUSE 9.0 Linux... and loving it...) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:58:17 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: [db] leaning tower of 190D So, lately, my 190D has been leaning to the left. It seems to be the driver's rear corner that is causing the problem, as the fender-to-tire clearance is smaller on that side than on the passenger side. There is a difference in the front as well, but it's not as pronounced as the rear. The odd thing is if I lift the LR fender to bring its clearance to about the same as the passenger side, the car sits level, even after I let go. Do the back shocks on a 190D support part of the weight of the vehicle, in that a blown out shock will cause the rear to sag? I can't remember if this has been discussed on this list or not. Either way, the vehicle handles like it could use new shocks. That being the case, does anyone have any comments on shocks they prefer - I think I remember hearing that KYBs didn't work well on a mercedes application, and am happy with paying for bilsteins or boges, but was wondering if anyone had any comments on either (i.e. stay away from the performance bilsteins cause they ride lousy and this IS a diesel...) Thanks in advance... K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 16:36:30 -0800 From: "Derick" Subject: RE: [db] Ignition lock problem I agree! Turn the switch to the number one position and leave it there until you get the part (disconnect the battery). Else the situation will begin to draw a vacuum. When you get the part get the removal tool. You can fabricate your own but I highly recommend getting the tool. It will only take 5 min to replace it if the key will turn. If the key will not turn it will take you 4+ hours. You will not want to do this, I have done it and I wish not to repeat the procedure. Derick - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john meister Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 12:16 PM To: Kevin Pekarek Cc: Mike Frank; diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: [db] Ignition lock problem Yes, get that FIXED ASAP... do NOT delay... you will not like the results... it's an ugly, ugly experience if you can't turn it... get a new switch from the dealer or rusty or anyone, but get that old switch out ASAP... turn it to the designated position and fish it out... it'd be less hassle to rent a car for a month then to have to take that dash apart again... :) john Kevin Pekarek wrote: > On Tue, Dec 16, 2003 at 02:55:11PM -0500, Mike Frank wrote: > >>I'm sure the answer to this is archived somewhere...but...I'm having >>trouble with the ignition switch in my '87 190d. Every once in a while, it >>becomes impossible to turn. By fiddling and jiggling, I can get it to work, >>after which it will be ok for a while. Is my ignition switch in need of >>replacement? how hard a job? > > > Sounds like it needs replacement to me. If you can still turn it, positioning it > with the key in between the first and second positions (IIRC) opens a hole that > you stick a pin/paperclip/etc in and pull the sucker out. > > If you can't turn it, you're dropping the steering column, and attacking it > with a sawzall. You definately want to fix it soon. > > I'll let John and Derick fill you in on specific details, since both have > had to do this fairly recently. > > K > - -- ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ** trust Jesus ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The revolt is underway, the penguin is coming... I can hear the slap of his little feet... (using Mozilla Thunderbird on SUSE 9.0 Linux... and loving it...) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.552 / Virus Database: 344 - Release Date: 12/15/2003 - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.552 / Virus Database: 344 - Release Date: 12/15/2003 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:59:51 -0500 From: Mike Frank Subject: RE: [db] Ignition lock problem I ordered the parts today...they will have them on Thursday. What does the removal tool look like? Mike Frank At 07:36 PM 12/16/2003, you wrote: >I agree! > >Turn the switch to the number one position and leave it there until you get >the part (disconnect the battery). Else the situation will begin to draw a >vacuum. When you get the part get the removal tool. You can fabricate your >own but I highly recommend getting the tool. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 17:19:44 -0800 From: "Derick" Subject: RE: [db] Ignition lock problem http://www.zdmak.com/mercedes%20tools.htm It takes awhile to load but the tool you need is there. It is the "V" shaped tool. Good luck. Derick - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.552 / Virus Database: 344 - Release Date: 12/15/2003 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 18:10:01 -0800 From: jack tavares Subject: [db] Emissions Hi folks - Here in beautiful King Co, Washington state, diesels are required to pass an emissions test. There is only one component of the test, "Opacity". They stick a probe in the exhaust. The limit is 20%. My wife's car got 26%. Bzzt. Thank you, try again later. Any suggestions? Had a recent professional tune-up about 5k miles ago. One previous mechanic turned up the fuel pump, should I turn that down? Going to put in a clean air filter and run it hard and try again. Thanks - -- jack ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:25:21 -0800 From: john meister Subject: Re: [db] leaning tower of 190D the control arms on the 190d's have issues... My mechanic tightened things up on the lower control arms, it had been squeaking and rattling back there... sounds like your control arm may have slipped a bit... or whatever they call all that stuff back there... ;) john Kevin Pekarek wrote: > So, lately, my 190D has been leaning to the left. It seems to be the driver's > rear corner that is causing the problem, as the fender-to-tire clearance > is smaller on that side than on the passenger side. There is a difference in > the front as well, but it's not as pronounced as the rear. > > The odd thing is if I lift the LR fender to bring its clearance to about the > same as the passenger side, the car sits level, even after I let go. > > Do the back shocks on a 190D support part of the weight of the vehicle, in > that a blown out shock will cause the rear to sag? I can't remember if this > has been discussed on this list or not. Either way, the vehicle handles like > it could use new shocks. > > That being the case, does anyone have any comments on shocks they prefer - > I think I remember hearing that KYBs didn't work well on a mercedes application, > and am happy with paying for bilsteins or boges, but was wondering if anyone > had any comments on either (i.e. stay away from the performance bilsteins cause > they ride lousy and this IS a diesel...) > > Thanks in advance... > > K > - -- ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ** trust Jesus ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The revolt is underway, the penguin is coming... I can hear the slap of his little feet... (using Mozilla Thunderbird on SUSE 9.0 Linux... and loving it...) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:30:44 -0800 From: john meister Subject: Re: [db] Ignition lock problem looks like a coat hanger bent around with 15 degree angles cut on to it... it might be here: http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/124-series/ignition_lock_46-8110.pdf I need to install the adobe acrobat plug-in into netscape on my linux system to see it... :) Anyway, if you don't fix the lock with the tool you can expect to see something like this: http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/Johns-Diesels/190D/March-Repairs/190d-inwork-1.jpg http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/Johns-Diesels/190D/March-Repairs/ :) john Mike Frank wrote: > I ordered the parts today...they will have them on Thursday. What does > the removal tool look like? > > Mike Frank > > At 07:36 PM 12/16/2003, you wrote: > >> I agree! >> >> Turn the switch to the number one position and leave it there until >> you get >> the part (disconnect the battery). Else the situation will begin to >> draw a >> vacuum. When you get the part get the removal tool. You can fabricate >> your >> own but I highly recommend getting the tool. > > - -- ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ** trust Jesus ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The revolt is underway, the penguin is coming... I can hear the slap of his little feet... (using Mozilla Thunderbird on SUSE 9.0 Linux... and loving it...) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:36:06 -0800 From: john meister Subject: Re: [db] Emissions been there, done that... ok, couple ways of making it... find the adjustment on the injection pump and "lean it out" a bit... had a 240D that scored about 64% on the test... :) someone cranked the fuel adjustment up a bit... fastest 240D I ever drove... looking in the mirror you'd wonder where everyone went though... :) after dialing it back a bit scored about 15%. The other thing you can do is to run some Amsoil Diesel Fuel Modifier or Cetane Boost. Cetane boost will help. Back when they were getting rid of the higher sulfur content fuel (early '90's) my Diesels would smoke like crazy... I'd run the Diesel Fuel Modifier through and it would help a lot. A good air cleaner will help to a point... You get three attempts... I'd get some amsoil diesel fuel modifier or adjust the pump back a little bit, you're pretty close... OH yeah, one other thing, change the oil if you haven't already... that'll help a bit too. john jack tavares wrote: > Hi folks - > > Here in beautiful King Co, Washington state, diesels are > required to pass an emissions test. > > There is only one component of the test, "Opacity". > They stick a probe in the exhaust. > > The limit is 20%. My wife's car got 26%. > Bzzt. Thank you, try again later. > > Any suggestions? Had a recent professional > tune-up about 5k miles ago. > > One previous mechanic turned up the fuel pump, > should I turn that down? > > Going to put in a clean air filter and run it > hard and try again. > > > Thanks > -- > jack > - -- ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ** trust Jesus ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The revolt is underway, the penguin is coming... I can hear the slap of his little feet... (using Mozilla Thunderbird on SUSE 9.0 Linux... and loving it...) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1317 **********************************