From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Mon Dec 29 16:17:45 2003 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, December 30 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1328 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] did some math Re: [db] did some math RE: [db] did some math Re: [db] selling my '91 300d RE: [db] did some math Re: [db] selling my '91 300d [db] oops - math isn't my strong point... Re: [db] oops - math isn't my strong point... Re: [db] oops - math isn't my strong point... Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 16:32:04 -0500 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] did some math Hmmm, You guys would hate me when I told you that our diesel prices are in the 1.20 to 1.30 range. Ooops. I think I just did Robert Chase john meister wrote: > Ok, let me state the conditions and see if someone can provide a > better format: > > > vehicle 1: XJ (jeep cherokee) 16 mpg in town $1.55/gallon for gas > vehicle 2: 300d - 26mpg in town $1.66/gallon for Diesel > > show the cost comparisons over 200 miles (or more) to reveal that > it costs MORE to drive the more economical vehicle the same distance > because of the extra cost of the fuel here... > > standing by for updates... (actually heading to work, back at > midnight... :) > john > > Alec Cordova wrote: > >> Umm, if the third and fourth columns are supposed to be $1.55 times the >> gallons in the second column, and $1.66 times the same quantity, then >> there's something wrong with the formula in the $1.66 column. That's >> less >> than ten per cent difference in per gallon price, but you're showing >> maybe >> 60 per cent difference between those two columns. >> >> Alec >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net >> [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john meister >> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 2:26 PM >> To: 'Diesel Benz'; ml >> Subject: [db] did some math >> >> >> I've noticed that Diesel is more here in >> Washington state because of additional taxes >> placed on Diesel... >> >> Anyway, I ran a spreadsheet... check out >> 16mpg (like in my '87 XJ) vs. the 26mpg >> that I got with my 300SD/300d's in town: >> >> >> 16 12.50 $19.38 $32.16 $12.8 >> 26 7.69 $11.92 $19.79 $7.9 >> >> For 200 miles traveled the XJ uses 12.5 gallons >> at $1.55/gal while the 300 series used only >> 7.69 gallons at $1.66/gal. That means >> that driving my XJ 200 miles cost $19.38 >> while driving a Mercedes Disesl cost $19.79 >> for the SAME distance!!! >> >> Wait a minute, you mean to tell me that it >> costs me MORE to drive a vehicle that >> pollutes less, is more efficient and >> all that??? >> >> If the XJ drops to 15 and the 300d goes >> up to 30mpg then I'm only saving about >> $3.00 in 200 miles... but in cold weather >> my '91 has dropped to 26mpg, the XJ is >> holding it's own at 16. In the summer >> my 300d seems closer to 29 to 30mpg... >> >> While regular unleaded has dropped in price >> around here, Diesel remains up there... >> >> >> Am I doing this math right? :) >> >> john >> >> miles >> traveled >> cost/gal >> mpg 200 $1.55 $1.66 delta >> >> 15 13.33 $20.67 $34.31 $13.6 >> 16 12.50 $19.38 $32.16 $12.8 >> 17 11.76 $18.24 $30.27 $12.0 >> 18 11.11 $17.22 $28.59 $11.4 >> 19 10.53 $16.32 $27.08 $10.8 >> 20 10.00 $15.50 $25.73 $10.2 >> 21 9.52 $14.76 $24.50 $9.7 >> 22 9.09 $14.09 $23.39 $9.3 >> 23 8.70 $13.48 $22.37 $8.9 >> 24 8.33 $12.92 $21.44 $8.5 >> 25 8.00 $12.40 $20.58 $8.2 >> 26 7.69 $11.92 $19.79 $7.9 >> 27 7.41 $11.48 $19.06 $7.6 >> 28 7.14 $11.07 $18.38 $7.3 >> 29 6.90 $10.69 $17.74 $7.1 >> 30 6.67 $10.33 $17.15 $6.8 >> 31 6.45 $10.00 $16.60 $6.6 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:36:44 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] did some math On Mon, Dec 29, 2003 at 04:32:04PM -0500, Robert Chase wrote: > You guys would hate me when I told you that our diesel prices are in the > 1.20 to 1.30 range. Well, California uses fuel taxes to help fund communism, governmental bloat and waste, and the destruction of the bill of rights. :) At least I don't need to emissions test a diesel. Yes, I need to move. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 16:38:43 -0500 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: RE: [db] did some math *Slightly* higher if you use $1.559 and $1.659 like they price fuel here... Jim/ > XJ: > 200 miles > at 16mpg > uses 12.5 gallons > at $1.55 per gallon > costs $19.38 in fuel to drive 200 miles in this XJ > > > DB: > 200 miles > at 26mpg > uses 7.7 gallons (just under, but we'll round up to 7.7) > at $1.65 per gallon > costs $12.71 to drive the diesel Benz 200 miles. > > So fuel costs are almost 35% cheaper using the Benz. > > > Since diesel fuel is comparable to home heating oil when allocating > production at refineries, diesel fuel costs tend to rise during the winter, > then sink back down in the spring. > > Alec > > > -----Original Message----- > From: john meister [mailto:dieseljohn-at-comcast.net] > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 2:42 PM > To: Alec Cordova > Cc: 'Diesel Benz' > Subject: Re: [db] did some math > > > Ok, let me state the conditions and see if someone can provide a better > format: > > > vehicle 1: XJ (jeep cherokee) 16 mpg in town $1.55/gallon for gas > vehicle 2: 300d - 26mpg in town $1.66/gallon for Diesel > > show the cost comparisons over 200 miles (or more) to reveal that > it costs MORE to drive the more economical vehicle the same distance > because of the extra cost of the fuel here... > > standing by for updates... (actually heading to work, back at midnight... :) > john > - -- Jim Hoffman Oconomowoc WI '39 Allis Model B '53 Ford Golden Jubilee '?? Bolens Huskie Gardener ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:49:27 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] selling my '91 300d On Sat, Dec 27, 2003 at 06:03:54PM -0500, Robert Chase wrote: > Personally I would rather put up with all the "rube goldberg" in the > world to have a car that is well designed in the important areas > (cruise, climate and locks have nothing to do with getting you home on a > rainy night). For the record my last brand new car left me stranded > more often than my Mercedes (once for the Accord and never on the Mercedes). Heh. Fortunately, I haven't had to deal with much rube goldberg stuff on mine. > Good luck John. Are you sure that your pricing it right? I have seen > 1995's go for just a hair over 10K before. If I was already spending in > that price range I would rather the nicer headlights and interior > changes for the money. I'd have to agree. I've seen car dealers (which means the car is overpriced by definition) selling 95 E300Ds out here for 9995. Sure, they had more miles on them, but who is worried about mileage on a diesel. Those cars were in great shape, and with how rough the used car market is these days, those dealers could surely be talked down some. I don't think that was a turbo car (I think the guy who lives across the street from my friend has a 95 E300D, and his isn't turbocharged), but I almost prefer the non-turbo car for a driver - sure, it doesn't sail up the grades doing 95+, but these days counties are hurting for money, so the revenue agents (the highway patrol) are out in force. Then again, the used car market in general is in a slump because the new car factories are offering 0% financing and huge rebates to get people to buy new instead of slightly used. There's way more used cars out there than people to buy them, and kelley's and nada don't really reflect that. Good luck selling it, John. I'd almost be interested in it if I had room in the fleet for another car. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:46:32 -0800 From: "Randy Eisenhardt" Subject: RE: [db] did some math John When I use your figures, the cost per mile traveled comes out as follows: Jeep: ($1.55/gal)(1 gal/16 miles) =~$0.10/mile Bemz: ($1.66/gal)(1 gal/26 miles) =~$0.06/mile Your 300 is costing you 40% less/mile traveled (fuel costs only). Randy '87 300 SDL 303k ,miles ________________________________ From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net on behalf of john meister Sent: Mon 12/29/2003 12:41 PM To: Alec Cordova Cc: 'Diesel Benz' Subject: Re: [db] did some math Ok, let me state the conditions and see if someone can provide a better format: vehicle 1: XJ (jeep cherokee) 16 mpg in town $1.55/gallon for gas vehicle 2: 300d - 26mpg in town $1.66/gallon for Diesel show the cost comparisons over 200 miles (or more) to reveal that it costs MORE to drive the more economical vehicle the same distance because of the extra cost of the fuel here... standing by for updates... (actually heading to work, back at midnight... :) john Alec Cordova wrote: > Umm, if the third and fourth columns are supposed to be $1.55 times the > gallons in the second column, and $1.66 times the same quantity, then > there's something wrong with the formula in the $1.66 column. That's less > than ten per cent difference in per gallon price, but you're showing maybe > 60 per cent difference between those two columns. > > Alec > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john meister > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 2:26 PM > To: 'Diesel Benz'; ml > Subject: [db] did some math > > > I've noticed that Diesel is more here in > Washington state because of additional taxes > placed on Diesel... > > Anyway, I ran a spreadsheet... check out > 16mpg (like in my '87 XJ) vs. the 26mpg > that I got with my 300SD/300d's in town: > > > 16 12.50 $19.38 $32.16 $12.8 > 26 7.69 $11.92 $19.79 $7.9 > > For 200 miles traveled the XJ uses 12.5 gallons > at $1.55/gal while the 300 series used only > 7.69 gallons at $1.66/gal. That means > that driving my XJ 200 miles cost $19.38 > while driving a Mercedes Disesl cost $19.79 > for the SAME distance!!! > > Wait a minute, you mean to tell me that it > costs me MORE to drive a vehicle that > pollutes less, is more efficient and > all that??? > > If the XJ drops to 15 and the 300d goes > up to 30mpg then I'm only saving about > $3.00 in 200 miles... but in cold weather > my '91 has dropped to 26mpg, the XJ is > holding it's own at 16. In the summer > my 300d seems closer to 29 to 30mpg... > > While regular unleaded has dropped in price > around here, Diesel remains up there... > > > Am I doing this math right? :) > > john > > miles > traveled > cost/gal > mpg 200 $1.55 $1.66 delta > > 15 13.33 $20.67 $34.31 $13.6 > 16 12.50 $19.38 $32.16 $12.8 > 17 11.76 $18.24 $30.27 $12.0 > 18 11.11 $17.22 $28.59 $11.4 > 19 10.53 $16.32 $27.08 $10.8 > 20 10.00 $15.50 $25.73 $10.2 > 21 9.52 $14.76 $24.50 $9.7 > 22 9.09 $14.09 $23.39 $9.3 > 23 8.70 $13.48 $22.37 $8.9 > 24 8.33 $12.92 $21.44 $8.5 > 25 8.00 $12.40 $20.58 $8.2 > 26 7.69 $11.92 $19.79 $7.9 > 27 7.41 $11.48 $19.06 $7.6 > 28 7.14 $11.07 $18.38 $7.3 > 29 6.90 $10.69 $17.74 $7.1 > 30 6.67 $10.33 $17.15 $6.8 > 31 6.45 $10.00 $16.60 $6.6 > - -- ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ** trust Jesus ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The revolt is underway, the penguin is coming... I can hear the slap of his little feet... (using Mozilla Thunderbird on SUSE 9.0 Linux... and loving it...) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:56:42 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] selling my '91 300d On Sat, Dec 27, 2003 at 04:38:31PM -0600, Jon Filina wrote: > OH BOY!! Yo, Alec, he's doin' it again! I'll get the popcorn, > you bring the chairs. LOL > >I got a Jeep book for Christmas... I prefer a Jeep, > >I can take one apart and put it back together, parts > >can be fabricated from paper clips, duct tape and chewing > >gum and not detract from the appearance, utility or value. > > Who says that "brand loyalty" is dead?? How long has it been since you > could trot down to your local Staples or 7-11 and pick up the parts to > put your trusty wheels back on the road? The point to be noted here is that on a jeep, you are tinkering a whole lot more than you should with any vehicle. True, it hasn't kept me from owning two. I think that's one of the things John likes about them :) > >I like this car, but this will most likely be my last > >Mercedes. > > I think I've heard that a few times before... heh. > >However, I will probably be looking for a Mercedes > >turbo Diesel to reengine my '87 Cherokee. > > I KNOW I've hear that MANY times before... Yup, and the nissan 3.3L turbo diesel six that they used in the maxima wagons was bolted to an AW3, so it would undoubtedly make an easier swap. I just wonder how he's going to hook the vaccuum shutdown switch up to that renault computer in the jeep so that when he shuts the engine down, the car decides whether or not it feels like locking the doors on you, just so that you'll stay in it longer. Oh wait, that's just my 190D. :) > >I love the > >engines but it's the climate control and central locking > >systems and cruise control and so on that drive me > >buggy. If only Rube Goldberg hadn't been on the design > >team... :) > > Wait a holdit! I've said that several times too.... My climate control behaves itself better than the stupid controls on the two SJs I have. The off position is full heat, heat is afterburners on, and the defroster is "here, lemme melt that window for ya". The other parts though... it's like those expensive old dolls - the flaws in them make them more valuable and more interesting :) K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:32:17 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: [db] oops - math isn't my strong point... On Mon, 29 Dec 2003, diesel-benz-digest wrote: >--> RE: [db] did some math >--> >--> Alec sez: >-->Umm, if the third and fourth columns are supposed to be $1.55 times the >-->gallons in the second column, and $1.66 times the same quantity, then >-->there's something wrong with the formula in the $1.66 column. That's less >-->than ten per cent difference in per gallon price, but you're showing maybe >-->60 per cent difference between those two columns. >-->Alec oops... spreadsheet error... snatched $C$3 instead of $B$3... Good catch Alec! guess I need to keep the Benz then, eh? ;) Jon and you should appreciate that entertainment... (how's the popcorn holding up, I'm going to make a run to costco soon... ;) (btw, can Jon cc this to the mercedes list? I'm at work and don't access the comcast account from here... thanx.) >--> Kevin sez: >-->Unfortunately you are. well, mostly... :) >-->Here in Walnut Creek, gasoline goes for $1.53 a gallon for the cheap stuff, >-->and $1.63 a gallon for midgrade. Diesel sells for $1.67. Gasoline prices have >-->been falling, but the diesel price has remained the same for over two months. same here... >-->Ok, let me state the conditions and see if someone can provide a better >-->format: >-->vehicle 1: XJ (jeep cherokee) 16 mpg in town $1.55/gallon for gas >-->vehicle 2: 300d - 26mpg in town $1.66/gallon for Diesel >--> >-->------------------------------ >-->Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:53:01 -0600 >-->From: "Alec Cordova" >-->Subject: RE: [db] did some math >--> >-->XJ: >-->200 miles >-->at 16mpg >-->uses 12.5 gallons >-->at $1.55 per gallon >-->costs $19.38 in fuel to drive 200 miles in this XJ >--> >--> >-->DB: >-->200 miles >-->at 26mpg >-->uses 7.7 gallons (just under, but we'll round up to 7.7) >-->at $1.65 per gallon >-->costs $12.71 to drive the diesel Benz 200 miles. >--> >-->So fuel costs are almost 35% cheaper using the Benz. >-->Alec thanx for verifying... :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. Suggestions: email in plain text w/o attachments, and trust Jesus. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The revolt is underway, the penguin is coming... I can hear the slap of his little feet... and the squishing of worms and sco lawyers under them... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:47:13 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] oops - math isn't my strong point... On Mon, Dec 29, 2003 at 03:32:17PM -0800, john wrote: > Good catch Alec! guess I need to keep the Benz then, eh? ;) > Jon and you should appreciate that entertainment... (how's the > popcorn holding up, I'm going to make a run to costco soon... ;) Yeah, you need to keep it. And no, that doesn't mean just keep it until you cut up derick's 300D and make a diesel XJ. derick's 300D would make a good driver if someone had the time for it. i still have *WAY* too many projects myself. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 16:13:12 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] oops - math isn't my strong point... so did you see Derick's project 300d? it looks pretty decent in the pix... john On Mon, 29 Dec 2003, Kevin Pekarek wrote: >-->On Mon, Dec 29, 2003 at 03:32:17PM -0800, john wrote: >-->> Good catch Alec! guess I need to keep the Benz then, eh? ;) >-->> Jon and you should appreciate that entertainment... (how's the >-->> popcorn holding up, I'm going to make a run to costco soon... ;) >--> >-->Yeah, you need to keep it. And no, that doesn't mean just keep it until >-->you cut up derick's 300D and make a diesel XJ. >--> >-->derick's 300D would make a good driver if someone had the time for it. i >-->still have *WAY* too many projects myself. >--> >-->K >--> >-->-- >-->Kevin Pekarek >-->Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and >-->Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. Suggestions: email in plain text w/o attachments, and trust Jesus. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The revolt is underway, the penguin is coming... I can hear the slap of his little feet... and the squishing of worms and sco lawyers under them... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1328 **********************************