From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Thu Jan 8 14:58:01 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Thursday, January 8 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1336 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: [db] Tensioner Damper - Rattling RE: [db] Tensioner Damper - Rattling Re: [db] Tensioner Damper - Rattling Re: [db] Tensioner Damper - Rattling RE: [db] Tensioner Damper - Rattling Re: [db] Glowplugs part two... Re: [db] Glowplugs? Re: [db] Glowplugs? Re: [db] Glowplugs? [db] Re: The plot thickens....(glowplugs part three!) Re: [db] Glowplugs? [db] Bye Bye Silver Hornet Re: [db] Bye Bye Silver Hornet Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 17:11:27 -0500 From: "Black, Waylon" Subject: RE: [db] Tensioner Damper - Rattling Thats how I got my 1984 190D from the Dallas Can Academy for $175. Paperwork said previous owner reported 'cracked engine'. Looking underneath I saw the cracked oil pan and bought it as it ran, was a 5-speed and had 99K miles. After I got it home, I realized the front idler was a little twisted. Upon removing the bolts from the 'shocks', the tensioner fell to the ground. Nice hole, about the size of a lemon slice. I can get the pan welded but not sure about welding the cover. Weird to look at the chain while it's running. Anybody have a good cover for sale from a 2.2? 2.5 probable uses the same cover. Waylon Black Little Elm, Texas Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 15:29:02 -0800 From: "Derick" Subject: RE: [db] Tensioner Damper - Rattling Replace it, or it can destroy the timing chain cover. I have seen the entire idler assy break off the cover. Fortunately it was not my car, this time.... Any play in any of the idler components causes metal fatigue. It is a sorry excuse for a timing chain cover it will not take long for it to self destruct. This is not a place to save a few bucks with a quick fix. If this has been on going ("shudder") it may be a good idea to look for cracks at/and around the component mounting points. I wish they would have made it out of a more robust material. This is the Achilles heel of the 601 engine. If you ever open the hood and find your engine covered with oil, you will most likely find a hole in it. Good luck Derick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 22:19:29 +0000 From: dieseljohn-at-comcast.net Subject: RE: [db] Tensioner Damper - Rattling jb weld... :) john > Thats how I got my 1984 190D from the Dallas Can Academy for $175. Paperwork > said previous owner reported 'cracked engine'. Looking underneath I saw the > cracked oil pan and bought it as it ran, was a 5-speed and had 99K miles. > After I got it home, I realized the front idler was a little twisted. Upon > removing the bolts from the 'shocks', the tensioner fell to the ground. Nice > hole, about the size of a lemon slice. > > I can get the pan welded but not sure about welding the cover. Weird to look > at the chain while it's running. > > Anybody have a good cover for sale from a 2.2? 2.5 probable uses the same > cover. > > Waylon Black > Little Elm, Texas > > > > > Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 15:29:02 -0800 > From: "Derick" > Subject: RE: [db] Tensioner Damper - Rattling > > Replace it, or it can destroy the timing chain cover. I have seen the entire > idler assy break off the cover. > Fortunately it was not my car, this time.... > Any play in any of the idler components causes metal fatigue. > It is a sorry excuse for a timing chain cover it will not take long for it > to self destruct. > This is not a place to save a few bucks with a quick fix. > If this has been on going ("shudder") it may be a good idea to look for > cracks at/and around the component mounting points. > I wish they would have made it out of a more robust material. > This is the Achilles heel of the 601 engine. > If you ever open the hood and find your engine covered with oil, you will > most likely find a hole in it. > > Good luck > > Derick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 14:34:39 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] Tensioner Damper - Rattling On Wed, Jan 07, 2004 at 05:11:27PM -0500, Black, Waylon wrote: > Thats how I got my 1984 190D from the Dallas Can Academy for $175. Paperwork > said previous owner reported 'cracked engine'. Looking underneath I saw the > cracked oil pan and bought it as it ran, was a 5-speed and had 99K miles. > After I got it home, I realized the front idler was a little twisted. Upon > removing the bolts from the 'shocks', the tensioner fell to the ground. Nice > hole, about the size of a lemon slice. > > I can get the pan welded but not sure about welding the cover. Weird to look > at the chain while it's running. > > Anybody have a good cover for sale from a 2.2? 2.5 probable uses the same > cover. When calling around to find a button and spring for my e-brake release, I asked - the yard in oakland, CA can get you one for about a hundred bucks. Being aluminum, you'd have to find a welder who was good at welding aluminum. I know of one in SLO that welds Al heads without even batting an eye, but understand they're few and far between. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 14:46:49 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] Tensioner Damper - Rattling On Wed, Jan 07, 2004 at 02:34:39PM -0800, Kevin Pekarek wrote: > When calling around to find a button and spring for my e-brake release, I > asked - the yard in oakland, CA can get you one for about a hundred bucks. When I called another yard, he asked me for a casting number - he said there is a ten digit mercedes number on the cover, three digits, space, three digits, space, then two pairs of digits. He said that the casting changed a couple of times during the life of the 2.2 diesel, and that they aren't exactly the same. I'd offer to pick it up and ship it out for you, but you save the 8.25% California Communism Tax.... er sales tax if delivery isn't taken in the state. Guy's name is Marshall, and the yard is Silver Star Wrecking: 510-834-1090. I'm sure you'll probably have better success out in TX though. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 18:03:11 -0500 From: Mike Frank Subject: RE: [db] Tensioner Damper - Rattling Too much stress...it needs to be welded by someone who works with aluminum. A new one would need to be machined to block, no? Mike Frank At 05:19 PM 1/7/2004, dieseljohn-at-comcast.net wrote: > > I can get the pan welded but not sure about welding the cover. Weird to > look > > at the chain while it's running. > > > > Anybody have a good cover for sale from a 2.2? 2.5 probable uses the same > > cover. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 17:08:42 -0800 (PST) From: hue wong Subject: Re: [db] Glowplugs part two... Ahhhh drat! I just check the forward glowplug fuse and it was nice and shiny and new looking. Must be the glow plug relay? (could that be why the car seemed to get harder to start these last few weeks? I just thought it was the cold and I was buying bad fuel) Where is that located in the engine compatment as I don't have a manual!!!) Just tried to start the car again, and it almost started (under its own compression???????) but didn't... No glow plug light in dash and all the fuses seem good. Does the dash lamp go out if just one glow plug goes bad? How much does a complete glowplug replacment cost? Oh well... this is the first "problem" I have had with the car as I bought it used and have been driving it like a mad man for the last few months, so I guess I can't complain. still.... I just wonder why cars seem to break in the middle of the winter, instead of the middle of the summer! - --- hue wong wrote: > AHHHH that is the info I was looking for. I checked > the fuse box, but they all looked good. I was > suspicious that there was a "glow plug" main fuse > somewhere, but had no idea where to look for it... > > Cool, I'll check it tonight! > > Thanx man, I love this list.... > > > --- Andrew_Strasfogel-at-blm.gov wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Glow plug relay ($100 +) or fuse (about $1.00). > If > > it won't start at all > > it's probably the fuse (under the hood , left > front > > of the engine bay > > IIRC). It is a thin metal strip held down by two > > phillips screws, beneath > > a black plastic cap. > > > > > > > > > > --- hue wong wrote: > > Went out this morning and jumped into my 84 300td > > and > > couldn't get it to start, then I noticed the dash > > glow > > plug light was not coming on as I flipped the key > > back > > and forth... > > > > It could have been warmed up, but I've never not > > seen > > the light come on when I flip the ignission.. > > > > So.. the car turns over and almost wants to start, > > but > > doesn't... > > > > Any thoughts? do I need new glow plugs.... > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" > > Sweepstakes > > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" > Sweepstakes > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 18:37:17 -0800 (PST) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: [db] Glowplugs? hue wong wrote: > > Went out this morning and jumped into my 84 300td and > couldn't get it to start, then I noticed the dash glow > plug light was not coming on as I flipped the key back > and forth... > > It could have been warmed up, but I've never not seen > the light come on when I flip the ignission.. > > So.. the car turns over and almost wants to start, but > doesn't... > > Any thoughts? do I need new glow plugs.... > *** The glow plugs are all in parallel. The light works off the current going to the plugs. If they're not all working, there won't be enough current. It's easy to troubleshoot: just pop the big connector at the fender wall. Each wire out to the engine should measure a low resistance to ground. When I did mine, I found a couple of real obvious clunkers. Replaced them, and the light came on for the first time. Another possibility is the glowplug fuse. I think there's also a relay to turn them on - all together, they're said to take 80 amps - at least that's how big the fuse is. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 09:06:09 -0500 From: "J.B. Hebert" Subject: Re: [db] Glowplugs? The indicator on the dash not lighting is MB's indicator that there is a problem with the system. It could indicate a bad relay, a bad fuse, one or more bad glow plugs, or a burnt out indicator bulb. Start with the easy fixes like the fuse and go from there. J.B. At 12:47 PM 1/7/2004 -0800, you wrote: >Went out this morning and jumped into my 84 300td and >couldn't get it to start, then I noticed the dash glow >plug light was not coming on as I flipped the key back >and forth... > >It could have been warmed up, but I've never not seen >the light come on when I flip the ignission.. > >So.. the car turns over and almost wants to start, but >doesn't... > >Any thoughts? do I need new glow plugs.... > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes >http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 12:14:04 -0500 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] Glowplugs? I agree... Before you spend the $100 on a new relay (been there done that) check the plugs with a meter. Just remember the name BERU... If they don't say BERU, don't use them! ;) Jim/ > *** The glow plugs are all in parallel. The light works off > the current going to the plugs. If they're not all working, > there won't be enough current. It's easy to troubleshoot: > just pop the big connector at the fender wall. Each wire > out to the engine should measure a low resistance to ground. > When I did mine, I found a couple of real obvious clunkers. > Replaced them, and the light came on for the first time. > > Another possibility is the glowplug fuse. I think there's > also a relay to turn them on - all together, they're said to > take 80 amps - at least that's how big the fuse is. > > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 09:50:21 -0800 (PST) From: hue wong Subject: [db] Re: The plot thickens....(glowplugs part three!) So I go to work on the benz this morning and low and behold, last time I flipped the hood latch the cable must have broke as this morning all I get is slack in the hood release handle and can't get anywhere to popping the hood... A few weeks back I read a thread here about someone who had to chopsaw through the grill to get to the hood pos to open the hood, when this happens???? Isthere an easier way to fix this little problem! Lord, when it rains it pours, hope this isn't indicitive of the rest of the year! zoiks! - --- Jerome Kaidor wrote: > hue wong wrote: > > > > Went out this morning and jumped into my 84 300td > and > > couldn't get it to start, then I noticed the dash > glow > > plug light was not coming on as I flipped the key > back > > and forth... > > > > It could have been warmed up, but I've never not > seen > > the light come on when I flip the ignission.. > > > > So.. the car turns over and almost wants to start, > but > > doesn't... > > > > Any thoughts? do I need new glow plugs.... > > > *** The glow plugs are all in parallel. The light > works off > the current going to the plugs. If they're not all > working, > there won't be enough current. It's easy to > troubleshoot: > just pop the big connector at the fender wall. Each > wire > out to the engine should measure a low resistance to > ground. > When I did mine, I found a couple of real obvious > clunkers. > Replaced them, and the light came on for the first > time. > > Another possibility is the glowplug fuse. I > think there's > also a relay to turn them on - all together, they're > said to > take 80 amps - at least that's how big the fuse is. > > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 11:17:08 -0800 From: Greg Fiorentino Subject: Re: [db] Glowplugs? At 09:14 AM 1/8/04 , Jim Hoffman wrote: >I agree... Before you spend the $100 on a new relay (been there >done that) check the plugs with a meter. Just remember the name >BERU... If they don't say BERU, don't use them! ;) > >Jim/ > > > *** The glow plugs are all in parallel. The light works off > > the current going to the plugs. If they're not all working, > > there won't be enough current. It's easy to troubleshoot: > > just pop the big connector at the fender wall. Each wire > > out to the engine should measure a low resistance to ground. > > When I did mine, I found a couple of real obvious clunkers. > > Replaced them, and the light came on for the first time. I agree with Jim. I've had good luck with BERU plugs. BTW some autolite boxes have BERU inside. The failure of either the plugs or relay is easy to distinguish. The relay is on the forward part of the driver's side wheel well inside the engine compartment. You can pull the connector and test the resistance of each plug from there with a multimeter. The relay can also be tested easily from there with a multimeter, I can't recall exactly what the connectors and readings are. I had to replace mine (84 300D turbo) last winter, a new one cost about $120 as I recall. IIRC the symptoms of mine besides a very hard start was a dash glow light remaining on. Greg Fiorentino gfior-at-dslnorthwest.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 15:01:06 -0700 From: Subject: [db] Bye Bye Silver Hornet Hi All, Sorry I didn't give you all a first chance, but on Dec 31st, I decided it was time to let go of the W116 1980 300SD. Since it has a multitude of problems, some cosmetic, some mechanical, some comfort related (ie: Climate control)...I thought my best bet would be to donate it. Interestingly enough, my first choice in charitible organizations didn't want it!! I guess they are sometimes picky. However, I did find one that would take it, a Cancer Research foundation, so if anyone is interested in trying to buy it from them, I'm sure I could get the information. They are going to pick it up next Wednesday. (near Sacramento, CA). The old silver hornet served me well as a daily driver for nearly 4 years (sound of a 21 gun salute in the background). I bought it for $1500 and probably only put $500-600 into it in parts/service (besides oil changes). Not a bad deal....I think with another $300-500, it would be drivable, but would still need lots of the non-mechanical things to be fixed....it's just not worth the trouble for me to do it, and I'm not sure I'd get my money back out of it if I fixed everything and then tried to sell it. I really enjoy driving the 85 190D, and the fact that almost everything works is a huge bonus. The Cream color is ideal for hiding a dirty car, and it looks nice besides! The only thing that continually concerns me is the tranny. It bucks (1-2) and slips (2-3) until warmed up. After about 7-8 minutes on the road it shifts smoothly in every gear, but it makes me wonder how long the tranny will actually last. BTW: I ordered the new idler pulley dampener from Rusty. Should be here in a few days---so far, so good, no valve cover destruction yet...I guess the reason it is rattling is that it isn't providing enough resistance...maybe the new one will push against the two ends more and hold it firm enough that it won't rattle, while doing a better job of absorbing vibration....both ends look fine and the other parts all look fine as well, so I hopeful this dampener swap will do the trick. R, scott - -- Scott Haaland 96 6.5L TurboDiesel Chevy Suburban K1500 85 190D - 2.2L Diesel W201 80 300 SD - W116 - The Silver Hornet - Going, Going, ... 87 Acura Legend - For Sale 83 VW Vanagon - With Tiico conversion 2.0L Jetta engine - For Sale 69 Chevy 3/4 Ton Pickup ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 17:48:47 -0500 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] Bye Bye Silver Hornet Uuugh, If you were local I would give you real money for the car (not that I need a car I just hate seeing a Mercedes in the hands of idiots). You should really consider selling the car to a real enthusiast. Some charitable groups are real brutal bastards with the cars they get donated. Almost like the dog pound if it does not sell and make them money it gets crushed. Especially if it has any problems. Your car may have problems but I bet is way too nice to be a Diet Coke can. The discount on your taxes really is not worth it compared to the actual cash value you could get for the car. If you sold the car directly (even on ebay) a real enthusiast would get the car and the likelyhood of it ending up in the boneyard would be lower. Please reconsider. 116's are getting less and less common. Robert Chase scott_haaland-at-agilent.com wrote: >Hi All, > >Sorry I didn't give you all a first chance, but on Dec 31st, I decided it was >time to let go of the W116 1980 300SD. Since it has a multitude of problems, >some cosmetic, some mechanical, some comfort related (ie: Climate control)...I >thought my best bet would be to donate it. Interestingly enough, my first >choice in charitible organizations didn't want it!! I guess they are >sometimes picky. However, I did find one that would take it, a Cancer >Research foundation, so if anyone is interested in trying to buy it from them, >I'm sure I could get the information. They are going to pick it up next >Wednesday. (near Sacramento, CA). > >The old silver hornet served me well as a daily driver for nearly 4 years >(sound of a 21 gun salute in the background). I bought it for $1500 and >probably only put $500-600 into it in parts/service (besides oil changes). >Not a bad deal....I think with another $300-500, it would be drivable, but >would still need lots of the non-mechanical things to be fixed....it's just >not worth the trouble for me to do it, and I'm not sure I'd get my money back >out of it if I fixed everything and then tried to sell it. > >I really enjoy driving the 85 190D, and the fact that almost everything works >is a huge bonus. The Cream color is ideal for hiding a dirty car, and it >looks nice besides! The only thing that continually concerns me is the >tranny. It bucks (1-2) and slips (2-3) until warmed up. After about 7-8 >minutes on the road it shifts smoothly in every gear, but it makes me wonder >how long the tranny will actually last. BTW: I ordered the new idler pulley >dampener from Rusty. Should be here in a few days---so far, so good, no valve >cover destruction yet...I guess the reason it is rattling is that it isn't >providing enough resistance...maybe the new one will push against the two ends >more and hold it firm enough that it won't rattle, while doing a better job of >absorbing vibration....both ends look fine and the other parts all look fine >as well, so I hopeful this dampener swap will do the trick. > >R, >scott >-- >Scott Haaland > >96 6.5L TurboDiesel Chevy Suburban K1500 >85 190D - 2.2L Diesel W201 >80 300 SD - W116 - The Silver Hornet - Going, Going, ... >87 Acura Legend - For Sale >83 VW Vanagon - With Tiico conversion 2.0L Jetta engine - For Sale >69 Chevy 3/4 Ton Pickup ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1336 **********************************