From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Sat Jan 17 21:53:54 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Sunday, January 18 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1345 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: [db] 240D ignition switch removal and replacement (again!) Re: [db] Haynes MB Diesel book arrived... Re: [db] oil problem Re: [db] Haynes MB Diesel book arrived... Re: [db] Glow plug light doesn't light anymore Re: [db] oil problem Re: [db] oil problem Re: [db] Haynes MB Diesel book arrived... Re: [db] oil problem RE: [db] oil problem Re: [db] oil problem Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 23:11:37 -0600 From: "Sam Williams" <1sam-at-io.com> Subject: RE: [db] 240D ignition switch removal and replacement (again!) Vernon, While changing ignition switch (or ignition lock--they are two separate parts) can be a bit of an adventure and you might enjoy it, those aren't the only possible culprits for failure to start. It's much more common for the neutral safety switch to fail. Also, that's far easier to replace. Accurate diagnosis often makes repairs quicker and less expensive. Sam - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Vernon Tuck Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 7:52 AM To: dieseljohn-at-comcast.net; maimino-at-alltel.net Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: [db] 240D ignition switch removal and replacement (again!) Would all ignition switch survivors please raise your hand? It appears that I need to replace it. I've only done this on American cars which have an electrical module AND the "mechanical" module. Are the innards of a 123 car the same? Last night the car momentarily failed to start upon turning the key even though it has a spankin' new starter, hot battery, clean wires, yada yada.. Metinks the culprit is surely the switch. In fact, it's had gremlins since I've owned the car. All advice appreciated. Sagacious advice will win you an email gushing with gratitude and replete with smiley faces. Gentlemen, start your guessing games... ;o)... VT ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 02:14:58 -0600 From: Jon Filina Subject: Re: [db] Haynes MB Diesel book arrived... Meister-san pecked: > inside the back cover... In response to my question: >> OK, I give up! I have the same manual (63012 (697) ) and don't see >> any indication of spark plugs...whatever they are . ;-) Hayne's has evidently printed several versions of this manual. Inside of the back page of mine is perfectly blank. My book also has the picture, in the section on removing the radio, of an ashtray with several burnt butts in it... They, obviously, stressed over that procedure. If Stu Ritter ever get's the go ahead, we may see a Bentley manual for the 126's similar to his 124 one. That one will replace my MB CD, which is pathetic in my estimation. Jon '84 300SD "Bruno" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 02:19:43 -0600 From: Jon Filina Subject: Re: [db] oil problem Mike wrote: > Went to start my '79 300D a few minutes ago. Couldn't get her going - > looks like the cold (4F) killed the battery. Anyway, I pushed her > away from the garage and found a puddle of oil under her. Now this is > a car that hasn't leaked a drop since I've had her (very unusiual for > a diesel), so I investigated. Oil is seeping from the lid of the oil > filter housing. > > Any ideas? Did the cold just shrink things, is there blockage, or > something else? Thanks! When was the last time you changed the oil? If the O-ring wasn't seated properly, you'll blow the oil out. A few years ago, I was at my mechanics. He was in a hurry while doing an oil change and didn't check the o-ring-oil all over the place. Pop the cover and reseat the o-ring and you should be ok. Jon '84 300SD "Bruno" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 12:07:49 -0300 From: "Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI" Subject: Re: [db] Haynes MB Diesel book arrived... My mailbox was recently graced by a missive from Jon Filina who wrote: > >> OK, I give up! I have the same manual (63012 (697) ) and don't see > >> any indication of spark plugs...whatever they are . ;-) > > inside the back cover... > Hayne's has evidently printed several versions of this manual. Inside > of the back page of mine is perfectly blank. So to top it all, you have an incomplete/defective manual ;-3p Cheers, Ron. - -- On droit des igards aux vivants; on ne doit aux morts que la viriti. -- Voltaire -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 08:31:41 -0600 From: Jan Guthrie Subject: Re: [db] Glow plug light doesn't light anymore Jack, Since it happened so suddenly, the first thing I would check would be the fuse. It is an 80 amp fuse in a little black box on the forward end of drivers fender. The relay is in the same box. Check the fuse and its connections. You could just replace it to be sure. If the fuse appears all right ..... it could be the relay. You should be able to hear the relay "click off" after about a minute after turning on the key. If you do not, it could be the problem. Someone more knowledgeable than me will have to tell how to check further. Jan Guthrie and her 1985 300TD jack tavares wrote: > Today the wife's 83 300D has a new problem. > > The glow plug light doesn't come on. > > The light came on this morning and car > started fine. > > Light came on this afternoon and car > started fine. > > She ran a bunch of errands and on the > last 2 stops, while the car was still > warm, the light did not come on. > > So, is this likely to be the glow > plugs themselves? the relay? > > Is the relay easily accessible with > out pulling apart a lot of stuff? > > how much would a relay run at a dealer? > I dont have time to mail order this. > > Thanks > -- > jack - -- $:0^0:$x,88,x$:0^0:$x,88,x$:0^0:$x,88,x$:0^0:$x$:0^0:$x,88,x$: Jan Jan Guthrie Yacht Brokerage jan-at-buy-a-boat.com 262-553-1998 http://www.buy-a-boat.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 10:15:23 -0500 From: "Michael Aimino" Subject: Re: [db] oil problem On 17 Jan 04, at 2:19, Jon Filina wrote: > Mike wrote: > > > Went to start my '79 300D a few minutes ago. Couldn't get her going > > - looks like the cold (4F) killed the battery. Anyway, I pushed her > > away from the garage and found a puddle of oil under her. Now this > > is a car that hasn't leaked a drop since I've had her (very unusiual > > for a diesel), so I investigated. Oil is seeping from the lid of the > > oil filter housing. > > > > Any ideas? Did the cold just shrink things, is there blockage, or > > something else? Thanks! > > When was the last time you changed the oil? If the O-ring wasn't > seated properly, you'll blow the oil out. A few years ago, I was at > my mechanics. He was in a hurry while doing an oil change and didn't > check the o-ring-oil all over the place. > > Pop the cover and reseat the o-ring and you should be ok. Last oil change was 3k mikes ago. It used about 1 quart in 3k, and no leaks, so the seal must've been OK. I'm thinking the bitter cold might have shrunk/shifted things a bit. I'm still working up the courage to go out and investigate. :) Current temp is 2F. I'll pull the cover and see what's what. Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 12:57:16 -0500 From: "Michael Aimino" Subject: Re: [db] oil problem On 17 Jan 04, at 10:15, Michael Aimino wrote: > On 17 Jan 04, at 2:19, Jon Filina wrote: > > > Mike wrote: > > > > > Went to start my '79 300D a few minutes ago. Couldn't get her > > > going - looks like the cold (4F) killed the battery. Anyway, I > > > pushed her away from the garage and found a puddle of oil under > > > her. Now this is a car that hasn't leaked a drop since I've had > > > her (very unusiual for a diesel), so I investigated. Oil is > > > seeping from the lid of the oil filter housing. > > > > > > Any ideas? Did the cold just shrink things, is there blockage, or > > > something else? Thanks! > > > > When was the last time you changed the oil? If the O-ring wasn't > > seated properly, you'll blow the oil out. A few years ago, I was at > > my mechanics. He was in a hurry while doing an oil change and > > didn't check the o-ring-oil all over the place. > > > > Pop the cover and reseat the o-ring and you should be ok. > > Last oil change was 3k mikes ago. It used about 1 quart in 3k, and no > leaks, so the seal must've been OK. I'm thinking the bitter cold might > have shrunk/shifted things a bit. I'm still working up the courage to > go out and investigate. :) Current temp is 2F. I'll pull the cover and > see what's what. Thanks! Update: removed the lid - the seal was so flat and hard that for a moment I thought I had forgot to put a seal on. I got it off and ran some warm water on it. It sprung right back, so I dried it off, oiled it, and put it back on. Tried starting the car again - no joy, but no leak either. I pulled the battery out overnight and stored it in my heated garage with the charger on it - it was fully charged and warm, but the starter just ground along pretty slowly. I even had jumper cables from my diesel Suburban, but no joy. I'm starting to wonder if the starter is shot. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 15:03:36 -0600 From: Jon Filina Subject: Re: [db] Haynes MB Diesel book arrived... Ron quoted: > My mailbox was recently graced by a missive > from Jon Filina who wrote: >>>>OK, I give up! I have the same manual (63012 (697) ) and don't see >>>>any indication of spark plugs...whatever they are . ;-) >>Hayne's has evidently printed several versions of this manual. Inside >>of the back page of mine is perfectly blank. Then commented: > So to top it all, you have an incomplete/defective manual ;-3p ;-O Ahhhh... It's perfectly clear now. Haynes has a reputation to maintain! If they can't get it wrong in print, they randomly omit the page... Very ingenious, if you ask me. Jon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 15:39:18 -0600 From: Jon Filina Subject: Re: [db] oil problem Mike wrote: >>>>Went to start my '79 300D a few minutes ago. Couldn't get her >>>>going - looks like the cold (4F) killed the battery. Anyway, I >>>>pushed her away from the garage and found a puddle of oil under >>>>her. I responded: >>>When was the last time you changed the oil? If the O-ring wasn't >>>seated properly, you'll blow the oil out. A few years ago, I was at >>>my mechanics. He was in a hurry while doing an oil change and >>>didn't check the o-ring-oil all over the place. >>> >>>Pop the cover and reseat the o-ring and you should be ok. Then added: > Update: removed the lid - the seal was so flat and hard that for a > moment I thought I had forgot to put a seal on. I got it off and ran > some warm water on it. It sprung right back, so I dried it off, oiled > it, and put it back on. > > Tried starting the car again - no joy, but no leak either. I'm glad that was the problem 'cuz my only other thought was a cracked cannister possibly caused by over torqueing the nuts. Do you replace the o-ring each time you change the filter? If so, it sounds like you didn't have it completely seated and compressed it when you put the lid back on. When it was warm, it would expand so there was no leak. When the arctic air hit, it wouldn't expand until the engine warmed up, hence the leak. That sounds like a plausible theory, but who knows? > I pulled the battery out overnight and stored it in my heated garage > with the charger on it - it was fully charged and warm, but the > starter just ground along pretty slowly. I even had jumper cables > from my diesel Suburban, but no joy. I'm starting to wonder if the > starter is shot. You might be right about the starter. Several years ago, my son blew the engine on my '81 Rabbit diesel. He wasn't paying attention to the gauges when the bypass hose popped a leak and all the coolant drained out. He drove it about 15 minutes with no coolant resulting in warping the head and cracking the block. I swapped the engine with one out of a '78. The transaxle on the older one was questionable so I used the one from the '81. When it was all back together, I couldn't get it to start. The starter didn't sound like it was spinning quite as fast as it should. I swapped the '81 starter for the '78 and, bingo, she started right up. I'd suggest testing the battery theory by swapping it for another one. It doesn't have to be the right size. Hook it up and see if the starter sounds the same. If so, it's probably the starter. I would bet that, when it warms up, the starter would probably work. If you can wait, I'd let the MB sit a while. If not, pull it, have it checked and replace it if neccessary. On the plus side... Just think of all the trouble you'd be getting into if you didn't have to maintain your vehicles. Stay warm. It's pretty cold here in Joshua, TX, too. 66 degrees or so... ;-P Jon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 17:47:17 -0600 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: [db] oil problem I don't know if it would fit on your older W123, but I have heard of people installing a starter from a 300D turbo onto non-turbo motors, since the turbo-specific unit apparently spins faster. If you have to replace yours anyway, you might as well check into it. Alec > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Jon Filina > Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 3:39 PM > To: maimino-at-alltel.net > Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: [db] oil problem > > > Mike wrote: > > >>>>Went to start my '79 300D a few minutes ago. Couldn't get her > >>>>going - looks like the cold (4F) killed the battery. Anyway, I > >>>>pushed her away from the garage and found a puddle of oil under > >>>>her. > > I responded: > > >>>When was the last time you changed the oil? If the O-ring wasn't > >>>seated properly, you'll blow the oil out. A few years ago, I was at > >>>my mechanics. He was in a hurry while doing an oil change and > >>>didn't check the o-ring-oil all over the place. > >>> > >>>Pop the cover and reseat the o-ring and you should be ok. > > Then added: > > > Update: removed the lid - the seal was so flat and hard that for a > > moment I thought I had forgot to put a seal on. I got it off and ran > > some warm water on it. It sprung right back, so I dried it off, oiled > > it, and put it back on. > > > > Tried starting the car again - no joy, but no leak either. > > I'm glad that was the problem 'cuz my only other thought was a cracked > cannister possibly caused by over torqueing the nuts. > > Do you replace the o-ring each time you change the filter? If so, it > sounds like you didn't have it completely seated and compressed it when > you put the lid back on. When it was warm, it would expand so there was > no leak. When the arctic air hit, it wouldn't expand until the engine > warmed up, hence the leak. That sounds like a plausible theory, but who > knows? > > > I pulled the battery out overnight and stored it in my heated garage > > with the charger on it - it was fully charged and warm, but the > > starter just ground along pretty slowly. I even had jumper cables > > from my diesel Suburban, but no joy. I'm starting to wonder if the > > starter is shot. > > You might be right about the starter. Several years ago, my son blew > the engine on my '81 Rabbit diesel. He wasn't paying attention to the > gauges when the bypass hose popped a leak and all the coolant drained > out. He drove it about 15 minutes with no coolant resulting in warping > the head and cracking the block. I swapped the engine with one out of a > '78. The transaxle on the older one was questionable so I used the one > from the '81. When it was all back together, I couldn't get it to > start. The starter didn't sound like it was spinning quite as fast as > it should. I swapped the '81 starter for the '78 and, bingo, she > started right up. > > I'd suggest testing the battery theory by swapping it for another one. > It doesn't have to be the right size. Hook it up and see if the starter > sounds the same. If so, it's probably the starter. I would bet that, > when it warms up, the starter would probably work. If you can wait, I'd > let the MB sit a while. If not, pull it, have it checked and replace it > if neccessary. > > On the plus side... Just think of all the trouble you'd be getting into > if you didn't have to maintain your vehicles. > > Stay warm. It's pretty cold here in Joshua, TX, too. 66 degrees or so... > > ;-P > > Jon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 20:48:15 -0500 From: "Michael Aimino" Subject: Re: [db] oil problem On 17 Jan 04, at 15:39, Jon Filina wrote: > Do you replace the o-ring each time you change the filter? If so,it > sounds like you didn't have it completely seated and compressed it > when you put the lid back on. When it was warm, it would expand so > there was no leak. When the arctic air hit, it wouldn't expanduntil > the engine warmed up, hence the leak. That sounds like a plausible > theory, but who knows? Yep, always a new o-ring. I made sure to push ot down in this time. Hopefully, that'll stay fixed. > You might be right about the starter. Several years ago, my son blew > the engine on my '81 Rabbit diesel. He wasn't paying attention to the > gauges when the bypass hose popped a leak and all the coolant drained > out. He drove it about 15 minutes with no coolant resulting in > warping the head and cracking the block. I swapped the engine with > one out of a '78. The transaxle on the older one was questionable so > I used the one from the '81. When it was all back together, I > couldn't get it to start. The starter didn't sound like it was > spinning quite as fast as it should. I swapped the '81 starter for > the '78 and, bingo, she started right up. I've swapped many a starter in a Rabbit - could do the whole thing in about 15 minutes (with no AC). I have a feeling that the Benz is going to take significantly longer. > I'd suggest testing the battery theory by swapping it for another one. > It doesn't have to be the right size. Hook it up and see if the > starter sounds the same. If so, it's probably the starter. I would > bet that, when it warms up, the starter would probably work. If you > can wait, I'd let the MB sit a while. If not, pull it, have it > checked and replace it if neccessary. I swapped a battery in and the starter just chugged along slowly. For giggles, I took the original battery to the McParts place and had it tested - it failed, so I got a replacement at no charge (no pun intended). I put the new battery in and no joy. The car is sitting in the driveay in about 6 inches of snow and the temps are in the single digits - I'm thinking that starter is just going to have to stay put for now. > On the plus side... Just think of all the trouble you'd be getting > into if you didn't have to maintain your vehicles. One word: beer. :) > Stay warm. It's pretty cold here in Joshua, TX, too. 66 degrees or > so... That's just wrong. :) Actually, it got up to 23F today - I saw my neighbor outside in his t shirt. Did feel pretty warm out. Thanks, Mike ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1345 **********************************