From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Fri Feb 13 16:53:58 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Saturday, February 14 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1366 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] nobody wants a 300D 4-speed? RE: [db] nobody wants a 300D 4-speed? Re: [db] nobody wants a 300D 4-speed? Re: [db] nobody wants a 300D 4-speed? [db] 240D [db] Brrrr..... RE: [db] 240D Re: [db] Methinks...... Re: [db] Methinks...... [db] Temp gauge (again) Re: [db] Temp gauge (again) RE: [db] Temp gauge (again) Re: [db] Temp gauge (again) RE: [db] Temp gauge (again) Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:17:24 -0500 From: "Wylie Bean" Subject: [db] nobody wants a 300D 4-speed? Guys, with all this talk about slow cars, I can't believe no one wants my 82 300D - 4-speed manual that I offered for sale a while back. Wylie Bean TheRingmeister-at-triad.rr.com Greensboro NC 90 cq 20v 99.5 A4 Avant q ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:45:11 -0600 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: [db] nobody wants a 300D 4-speed? > Guys, with all this talk about slow cars, I can't believe no one > wants my 82 > 300D - 4-speed manual that I offered for sale a while back. > > Wylie Bean > TheRingmeister-at-triad.rr.com > Greensboro NC > 90 cq 20v > 99.5 A4 Avant q Well, what do you expect? It's obviously got all those Audi cooties all over it. ;-) Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 89 300CE, 167K ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:42:03 -0500 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] nobody wants a 300D 4-speed? No kidding... They don't want my '83 240D either... And it's SLOWER than yours! Of course mine has that *special* air conditioning option... The hole in the rear floor ;) So how much is the 300D? Maybe I should use parts from mine and yours and make one car?? Jim/ > Guys, with all this talk about slow cars, I can't believe no one wants my 82 > 300D - 4-speed manual that I offered for sale a while back. > > Wylie Bean > TheRingmeister-at-triad.rr.com > Greensboro NC > 90 cq 20v > 99.5 A4 Avant q > - -- Jim Hoffman Oconomowoc WI '39 Allis Model B '53 Ford Golden Jubilee '?? Bolens Huskie Gardener ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:59:58 -0600 From: "Kaleb C. Striplin" Subject: Re: [db] nobody wants a 300D 4-speed? so how much do you want for it? Wylie Bean wrote: > Guys, with all this talk about slow cars, I can't believe no one wants my 82 > 300D - 4-speed manual that I offered for sale a while back. > > Wylie Bean > TheRingmeister-at-triad.rr.com > Greensboro NC > 90 cq 20v > 99.5 A4 Avant q > > - -- Kaleb C. Striplin/ Claremore, OK Mercedes-Benz Club of America Member Since 1991 MBZ.org Diesel/LL/123/124 List Administrator 89 560SEL, 85 380SE, 84 380SE, 82 300D, 81 500SE, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 77 300D, 77 450SL, 76 450SEL, 76 240D Parts Cars: 84 300TD, 84 300D, 82 240D, 81 300SD, 81 300TD, 79 240D, 78 300SD, 78 300D, 77 300D, 76 300D, 75 240D, 75 240D ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 12:28:04 -0500 From: "Black, Waylon" Subject: [db] 240D Hit by a deer may not be an issue. The 'mechanicy type' bothers me. A 'mechanic owned' car should not be considered a 'plus'. Some may 'patch' a car just enough to unload it. Best thing is to take it on a long test drive(without seller, if possible) and let it idle for a while after you return. You will be able to spot any leaks, overheating, etc while to make the deal. Oh my, it leaks oil - subtract $100. Of course, I'll sell you my 1982 240D with 172K miles, no cracked dash, nice interior for $1500. ;) I've put 10K miles on it since I got it in November. Waylon Black Little Elm, Texas Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:57:49 -0500 From: Jason R Bassett Subject: [db] 240D OK, you have all been superbly helpful. Now, one or two more questions. Remember the vehicle: 1981 240D 237638Mi Auto 1. The oil is very dirty^WI know that diesels do get it pretty nasty, but since the air filter is also nasty, I suspect that it may have been slightly neglected. On a 30s-F day, I had trouble starting it, HOWEVER, it started fairly easily on a 45-F day, and runs nicely. Probably the glow plugs are weak. SO.....I'm inclined to just pamper it and not worry about what the PO did too much. I heard a story about a survey MB did for longevity. They contacted all the MB owners they could find, and asked them how many miles their MB had, and how they treated it. One had ~200000 miles on it, and when they asked him how often he changed the oil he replied, "I have to change the oil?" So I'm not really too worried about it. It sounds good, and the seller (not the owner) drove it some, and he didn't even think it was slow. (So there!) 2. This car hit a deer. The seller is a mechanicy type who has fixed it up so that you really can't tell. Is there anything I should check for before I sink money into a potential problem? I don't think it was hit badly^Wit seems straight still. Comments please. (Maybe I can use this to talk him down a little?) Jason ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:43:00 -0700 From: Eric -at- Morrell Printing Solutions Subject: [db] Brrrr..... - -5F last night! Took a little doing, but my 71 220D started up! No block warmer! Dino-oil! I did the glow plug conversion and valve adjustment about 5K ago. What a difference. Last season if it was +20 or less I wouldn't even bother trying, just hop a ride to the bus stop. Gotta do that block warmer though, I'm sure starts like that are causing a great deal of wear on my starter/battery. Eric '71 220D 121,000mi '81 300D In dire need of an engine, got one for me? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 12:51:28 -0600 From: "Sam Williams" <1sam-at-io.com> Subject: RE: [db] 240D Jason, Diesels start harder the colder it gets. To start, a diesel needs fuel, air and compression--plus, of course, a top notch battery and starter that can turn the engine fast enough. Fuel thickens, gels when cold enough. Compression is lower when all the parts shrink in the cold. Might be time to get a new air filter. Some people glow twice in cold weather. > he replied, "I have to change the oil?" You don't recognize German humour? A good Housefrau washes the windows every week--whether they need it or not. For some reason, Americans seldom roll on the floor laughing the first time they hear that. My mother, an American of distant German heritage, retained the genetic German quality of frugality but not the subtlety of 'if it needs it or not.' She never wasted money on oil changes, merely added more if a service station attendant told her she had to. We had many cars while I was young. Diesel oil turns black immediately. You can almost watch the black flowing back up to the oil bottle if you pour too slowly. That is caused by soot or ultra fine carbon particles from inevitable blow-by (even in a brand new diesel engine). Carbon, if you remember, is what a diamond is. Carbon particles and Diamonds are harder than internal engine surfaces, have a crystalline structure with sharp edges that wear away important bits of the engine when oil becomes saturated. Unit bodies, especially those designed to absorb the energy of a crash are tricky to stretch back into shape after an accident. It's not something that can be done in the back yard of even a talented mechanicy type. At this point, you might wonder why, if it's such a good car, a knowledgeable, mechanically inclined, person wants to sell it at this low price. If you believe it was truly a minor encounter with a deer, AT LEAST get the alignment checked (and yes, MBs do have lots of adjustments, front and rear, require a talented alignment artist, not just any Alignments-R-Us shop to get it right). Take it to an MB dealer or 3rd party MB repair shop and get a Pre-Purchase Inspection before you buy it. For ~$100 they will find what it would take to put car in excellent condition. For another $100, they will perform compression and other checks. Usually, the $100 part is enough to determine if a car is a smart buy. In your case, add cost of alignment check. A PPI is always cost effective. It can reject a car that should be rejected or inform you of areas that will need attention once you own the car. Most important, the mechanic performing the PPI has both the knowledge and lack of emotional attachment necessary to make a better judgment of a car's condition than someone already imagining driving the shiny new car. Have fun, Sam - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Jason R Bassett Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 9:58 AM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: [db] 240D OK, you have all been superbly helpful. Now, one or two more questions. Remember the vehicle: 1981 240D 237638Mi Auto 1. The oil is very dirty^WI know that diesels do get it pretty nasty, but since the air filter is also nasty, I suspect that it may have been slightly neglected. On a 30s-F day, I had trouble starting it, HOWEVER, it started fairly easily on a 45-F day, and runs nicely. Probably the glow plugs are weak. SO.....I'm inclined to just pamper it and not worry about what the PO did too much. I heard a story about a survey MB did for longevity. They contacted all the MB owners they could find, and asked them how many miles their MB had, and how they treated it. One had ~200000 miles on it, and when they asked him how often he changed the oil he replied, "I have to change the oil?" So I'm not really too worried about it. It sounds good, and the seller (not the owner) drove it some, and he didn't even think it was slow. (So there!) 2. This car hit a deer. The seller is a mechanicy type who has fixed it up so that you really can't tell. Is there anything I should check for before I sink money into a potential problem? I don't think it was hit badly^Wit seems straight still. Comments please. (Maybe I can use this to talk him down a little?) Jason ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:30:55 -0800 From: "BigBdWolf" Subject: Re: [db] Methinks...... Great thread on the different cars characteristics... Except I have an '87 300D Turbo W124 and nobody mentioned it! :~( Does anybody have much experience or comments on the 3 liter 603.960 I6? - -Wolf - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 18:30:58 -0500 From: "Black, Waylon" Subject: Re: [db] Methinks...... The real issue is what are YOU looking for and where you live/work. The 240D does the job it was intended to do. It is the BASE model MB. It is good, reliable, transportation. HOWEVER, If you drive above 55-60 mph - you may not like the 240D(62 hp). I believe the ring gear is 3.69 or 3.46. Assuming a 185/70/14 equals a diameter of 24.2 inches. 70 mph equals 3586 rpm(3.69) or 3363(3.46) A 300 SD has a 3.07 ratio(and about 120 hp). 70 mph becomes a friendlier 2984. Since I own 3 240Ds, a 300D, 2 300 SDs and a 190D I'll share what I've learned. 240Ds get about 26-27 mpg -at- 70 - good if you do lots of highway driving. 300SDs get 25-27 mpg -at- 70. Much nicer, almost twice the power, better ride, more complex. 300Ds(non turbo) fill the gap between the 240Ds and the 300SDs The 190Ds are the natural evolution of the 123s - more modern, features, power. I like the 'simpleness' of the 123 series(240D/300D) I like the luxury of the 126 series(300SD) The mpg king is the 190Ds - better overall ratios. Waylon Black Little Elm, Texas ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 20:08:27 +0000 From: dieseljohn-at-comcast.net Subject: Re: [db] Methinks...... I test drove one, almost bought it... fast... a little faster then my '91 300d 2.5L TD. A good motor the 3.0 is if not overheated... john > Great thread on the different cars characteristics... Except I have an > '87 300D Turbo W124 and nobody mentioned it! :~( Does anybody have much > experience or comments on the 3 liter 603.960 I6? > -Wolf > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 18:30:58 -0500 > From: "Black, Waylon" > Subject: Re: [db] Methinks...... > > The real issue is what are YOU looking for and where you live/work. > > The 240D does the job it was intended to do. > > It is the BASE model MB. It is good, reliable, transportation. > > HOWEVER, > > If you drive above 55-60 mph - you may not like the 240D(62 hp). > > I believe the ring gear is 3.69 or 3.46. Assuming a 185/70/14 equals a > diameter of 24.2 inches. > > 70 mph equals 3586 rpm(3.69) or 3363(3.46) > > A 300 SD has a 3.07 ratio(and about 120 hp). 70 mph becomes a friendlier > 2984. > > Since I own 3 240Ds, a 300D, 2 300 SDs and a 190D I'll share what I've > learned. > > 240Ds get about 26-27 mpg -at- 70 - good if you do lots of highway driving. > > 300SDs get 25-27 mpg -at- 70. Much nicer, almost twice the power, better > ride, more complex. > > 300Ds(non turbo) fill the gap between the 240Ds and the 300SDs > > The 190Ds are the natural evolution of the 123s - more modern, features, > power. > > I like the 'simpleness' of the 123 series(240D/300D) > > I like the luxury of the 126 series(300SD) > > The mpg king is the 190Ds - better overall ratios. > > Waylon Black > Little Elm, Texas ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:34:08 +0800 From: "Carballo, Rico A." Subject: [db] Temp gauge (again) This discussion carried from my previous post which had the temp gauge of my 240D reach only 60degC. I changed the sending unit (and the thermostat to be sure) and the gauge now reads normal between 80-90degC EXCEPT that it takes an eternity (30mins) for the temp to reach that reading. My MB gas cars reach the same reading in less than 5 minutes. Do diesels really warm-up this long? What are your experiences? Thanks. Rico ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 02:24:04 -0500 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] Temp gauge (again) Hmmm, I usually have heat in my 300SD right as I am leaving my subdivision...... Is your heat taking a long time to work or do you have heat quickly within 5 minutes? You may have other problems. My thermostat was stuck open and my car took forever to warm up but then when it did it seemd to want to overheat. Robert Chase Carballo, Rico A. wrote: >This discussion carried from my previous post which had the temp gauge >of my 240D reach only 60degC. I changed the sending unit (and the >thermostat to be sure) and the gauge now reads normal between 80-90degC >EXCEPT that it takes an eternity (30mins) for the temp to reach that >reading. My MB gas cars reach the same reading in less than 5 minutes. >Do diesels really warm-up this long? What are your experiences? Thanks. > >Rico ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 15:32:15 +0800 From: "Carballo, Rico A." Subject: RE: [db] Temp gauge (again) I never use heat since I live in a tropical country. My heat probably wouldn't be working anyway. I checked with some friends of mine and all of them have similar experiences. How long does your temp gauge reach operating temp? I also replaced the thermostat just to ensure everything's in order (I could also have had one stuck open). Rico > > I usually have heat in my 300SD right as I am leaving my > subdivision...... Is your heat taking a long time to work > or do you > have heat quickly within 5 minutes? You may have other > problems. My > thermostat was stuck open and my car took forever to warm > up but then > when it did it seemd to want to overheat. > > Robert Chase ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 06:20:22 -0800 From: Greg Fiorentino Subject: Re: [db] Temp gauge (again) At 07:34 PM 2/12/04 , Carballo, Rico A. wrote: >This discussion carried from my previous post which had the temp gauge >of my 240D reach only 60degC. I changed the sending unit (and the >thermostat to be sure) and the gauge now reads normal between 80-90degC >EXCEPT that it takes an eternity (30mins) for the temp to reach that >reading. My MB gas cars reach the same reading in less than 5 minutes. >Do diesels really warm-up this long? What are your experiences? Thanks. > >Rico Rico: Diesel engines produce much less heat AT IDLE than do gas engines. Also, they burn a lot less fuel at idle. Your car should not be idled to operating temperature, but rather run under load. This is the only thing I can think of (other than a stuck thermostat) that could cause this. Even so 30 min. is a long time. You can test your thermostat in a pot of water with a thermometer in it. This will allow you to see what it is doing. Good luck! Greg Fiorentino Vancouver USA gfior-at-dslnorthwest.net '86 300SDL Turbo '84 300D Turbo '79 300TD '85 F-350 6.9 crew cab ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 19:42:46 -0500 From: "Steve Morelen" Subject: RE: [db] Temp gauge (again) Rico- A properly operating cooling system will not take 30 minutes to warm up, especially if you are operating the engine in a mild climate. Just curious...what is the approximate engine temperature when you start the engine? Steve Morelen '84 300D >From: "Carballo, Rico A." >To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >Subject: RE: [db] Temp gauge (again) >Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 15:32:15 +0800 > >I never use heat since I live in a tropical country. My heat probably >wouldn't be working anyway. I checked with some friends of mine and all >of them have similar experiences. How long does your temp gauge reach >operating temp? I also replaced the thermostat just to ensure >everything's in order (I could also have had one stuck open). > >Rico > > > > > I usually have heat in my 300SD right as I am leaving my > > subdivision...... Is your heat taking a long time to work > > or do you > > have heat quickly within 5 minutes? You may have other > > problems. My > > thermostat was stuck open and my car took forever to warm > > up but then > > when it did it seemd to want to overheat. > > > > Robert Chase _________________________________________________________________ Get some great ideas here for your sweetheart on Valentine's Day - and beyond. http://special.msn.com/network/celebrateromance.armx ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1366 **********************************